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Yvette
Posts: 859
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8/21/2010 11:05:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Still waiting to hear about those big, gaping, gang-raped holes in the theory of evolution. You were quite the prolific poster in opposition to evolution until we actually challenged you to name the holes. Then, suddenly, you had to be somewhere...it's been a week and we still haven't heard what these holes you are so concerned about are.

Seriously, care to fill me in?
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/21/2010 11:10:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I can't imagine what these gaping holes are, there may be gaps where alternative theories can be proposed I guess and there are points of doubt over the specifics.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Yvette
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8/21/2010 11:17:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yea, the specifics of how this or that creature evolved are the only places you'd find holes. The theory itself is rock solid. With 1.6 million discovered species and up to 100 million total species, the idea that we'd have every single creatures' ancestry mapped out is downright silly.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/21/2010 11:38:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 11:17:19 AM, Yvette wrote:
Yea, the specifics of how this or that creature evolved are the only places you'd find holes. The theory itself is rock solid. With 1.6 million discovered species and up to 100 million total species, the idea that we'd have every single creatures' ancestry mapped out is downright silly.

No obviously that would be far, far too specific.

Still I may attempt to argue PRO for design in the near future.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Yvette
Posts: 859
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8/21/2010 11:46:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 11:38:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/21/2010 11:17:19 AM, Yvette wrote:
Yea, the specifics of how this or that creature evolved are the only places you'd find holes. The theory itself is rock solid. With 1.6 million discovered species and up to 100 million total species, the idea that we'd have every single creatures' ancestry mapped out is downright silly.

No obviously that would be far, far too specific.

Still I may attempt to argue PRO for design in the near future.

That'll be interesting...as devil's advocate or you're really convinced? What kind of arguments are you considering?
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/21/2010 5:30:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
yaaaay moar people not defending their claims. i love that you're always willing to call people on their bs yvette :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Yvette
Posts: 859
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8/21/2010 5:45:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 5:30:09 PM, belle wrote:
yaaaay moar people not defending their claims. i love that you're always willing to call people on their bs yvette :P

Lol. I admit it's more fun than actually debating, and waaaay easier. xD
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/21/2010 7:59:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 5:45:23 PM, Yvette wrote:
At 8/21/2010 5:30:09 PM, belle wrote:
yaaaay moar people not defending their claims. i love that you're always willing to call people on their bs yvette :P

Lol. I admit it's more fun than actually debating, and waaaay easier. xD

and less annoying when they just ignore you!
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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8/22/2010 12:07:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I assume we can resume in this thread. You were really worried about this weren't you?

The lack of real transitional fossils.

Go.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/22/2010 12:11:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Jharry, since this thread is here I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask about your views. Are you a young earth creationist or no?
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/22/2010 12:12:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:07:54 AM, jharry wrote:
I assume we can resume in this thread. You were really worried about this weren't you?

The lack of real transitional fossils.

Go.

I hate that phrase, it really does fail. But anyways... what about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org...
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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8/22/2010 12:15:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:12:33 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:07:54 AM, jharry wrote:
I assume we can resume in this thread. You were really worried about this weren't you?

The lack of real transitional fossils.

Go.

I hate that phrase, it really does fail. But anyways... what about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org...

I really wanted to discuss this with her. But, since you are first.

I read the link. Please tell me where I can find proof to this claim.

Although they were primarily carnivorous, a number of theropod groups evolved herbivory, omnivory, and insectivory.

And one more thing, did it fly. Evidence would be nice too.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/22/2010 12:20:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:15:41 AM, jharry wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:12:33 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:07:54 AM, jharry wrote:
I assume we can resume in this thread. You were really worried about this weren't you?

The lack of real transitional fossils.

Go.

I hate that phrase, it really does fail. But anyways... what about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org...

I really wanted to discuss this with her. But, since you are first.

Sorry I love this topic.


I read the link. Please tell me where I can find proof to this claim.


In the sources, or you could search yourself, it is a famous fossil.

Although they were primarily carnivorous, a number of theropod groups evolved herbivory, omnivory, and insectivory.

I have no idea what your point is.


And one more thing, did it fly. Evidence would be nice too.

It's ability to fly is irrelevant, simply it's place in the evolutionary tree.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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8/22/2010 12:25:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I didn't see a source for that claim. So I assume it is believed.

So you don't know if it could fly. Maybe I'm talking tot he wrong person, maybe we should wait on Yvette.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/22/2010 12:28:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:25:27 AM, jharry wrote:
I didn't see a source for that claim. So I assume it is believed.

So for what claim?


So you don't know if it could fly.

Though an interesting question it does not actually confirm or deny it as a transistional fossil.

Maybe I'm talking tot he wrong person, maybe we should wait on Yvette.

You are not going to have an easier time with her.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
jharry
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8/22/2010 12:30:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:28:43 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:25:27 AM, jharry wrote:
I didn't see a source for that claim. So I assume it is believed.

So for what claim?


So you don't know if it could fly.

Though an interesting question it does not actually confirm or deny it as a transistional fossil.

Maybe I'm talking tot he wrong person, maybe we should wait on Yvette.

You are not going to have an easier time with her.

Yes, I'm sure she can keep her mind of small children.

Sorry. It slipped.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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8/22/2010 12:32:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ok. That was uncalled for. I apologize.

Whether it can fly or not is huge if we are to call this thing a transitional fossil.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/22/2010 12:33:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:30:55 AM, jharry wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:28:43 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:25:27 AM, jharry wrote:
I didn't see a source for that claim. So I assume it is believed.

So for what claim?


So you don't know if it could fly.

Though an interesting question it does not actually confirm or deny it as a transistional fossil.

Maybe I'm talking tot he wrong person, maybe we should wait on Yvette.

You are not going to have an easier time with her.

Yes, I'm sure she can keep her mind of small children.


Sorry. It slipped.

Wow, even the noobs have joined in.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/22/2010 12:37:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:32:05 AM, jharry wrote:
Ok. That was uncalled for. I apologize.

I have come to accept this sort of behaviour from the Christians here.


Whether it can fly or not is huge if we are to call this thing a transitional fossil.

How so?

It is claimed that the T-Rex is an ancestor of moden birds, a transistional creature along this line can reasonable be expected to either not fly, or to fly. Either alternative does not invalidate it.

Many of these arguments collapase when it emerges that the creationist does not understand the terms he is using. What do you personally mean by the term transistional fossil.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
jharry
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8/22/2010 12:37:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Noob, that's a funny word.

I'm not trying to say that if it didn't fly it could be what you say it is.

How about this. If it didn't fly, how would the "feathers" help in it's survival?

And would these feathers inhibit it's chances just as much?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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8/22/2010 12:40:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:35:41 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
He didn't answer my question yet? :(

Jharry, are you a young earth creationist?

No. I'm sorry, I didn't know you asked. I believe in micro-evolution or survival of the fittest, but that is as far as it goes.

If I were to start hypothesizing about all I think about this I would probably be excommunicated.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/22/2010 12:40:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:40:08 AM, jharry wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:35:41 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
He didn't answer my question yet? :(

Jharry, are you a young earth creationist?

No. I'm sorry, I didn't know you asked. I believe in micro-evolution or survival of the fittest, but that is as far as it goes.

If I were to start hypothesizing about all I think about this I would probably be excommunicated.

Oh ok. It's fine. I was just curious.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/22/2010 12:45:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:37:55 AM, jharry wrote:
Noob, that's a funny word.

I'm not trying to say that if it didn't fly it could be what you say it is.

How about this. If it didn't fly, how would the "feathers" help in it's survival?

And would these feathers inhibit it's chances just as much?

I don't think you understand the basics of evolution.

Mutations are generally quite small scale, a wingless species is not meant to suddenly give birth to something with fully developed wings and the ability to use them. This is why the term transistional fossil is a painful and annoying 'simplication', any lifeform that hopes to survive and breed is a fully viable creature in it's right.

Mutations that harm a creatures ability to live and breed will generally die out, mutations that aid a creatures ability to live and breed should generally propogate. Mutations that do neither will neither be selected for or against, and may remain in the population. Successive mutations on the same theme turning them into a negative or a positive.

What you really shoud be demanding evidence for are 'part developed' wings.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/22/2010 12:46:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:40:08 AM, jharry wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:35:41 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
He didn't answer my question yet? :(

Jharry, are you a young earth creationist?

No. I'm sorry, I didn't know you asked. I believe in micro-evolution or survival of the fittest, but that is as far as it goes.

If I were to start hypothesizing about all I think about this I would probably be excommunicated.

I thought you were Catholic?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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8/22/2010 12:47:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:20:23 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

It's ability to fly is irrelevant, simply it's place in the evolutionary tree.

That brings up another question. Cerebral_Narcissist, you don't seem to much about this creature except that is exists and that it is claimed to be a transitional fossil. Is that all the evidence you need to believe it is? Because wiki said so? Oh yeah, before we get real deep into this (I hope Yvette is reading this) I hope to stay away from "it is believed" statements. It is "believed" by millions of people that God exists, is that enough evidence or proof for you to also believe? If not I hope we can steer away from such statements. Thanks.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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8/22/2010 12:48:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:46:40 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:40:08 AM, jharry wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:35:41 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
He didn't answer my question yet? :(

Jharry, are you a young earth creationist?

No. I'm sorry, I didn't know you asked. I believe in micro-evolution or survival of the fittest, but that is as far as it goes.

If I were to start hypothesizing about all I think about this I would probably be excommunicated.

I thought you were Catholic?

And?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/22/2010 12:50:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:47:33 AM, jharry wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:20:23 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

It's ability to fly is irrelevant, simply it's place in the evolutionary tree.

That brings up another question. Cerebral_Narcissist, you don't seem to much about this creature except that is exists and that it is claimed to be a transitional fossil. Is that all the evidence you need to believe it is? Because wiki said so? Oh yeah, before we get real deep into this (I hope Yvette is reading this) I hope to stay away from "it is believed" statements. It is "believed" by millions of people that God exists, is that enough evidence or proof for you to also believe? If not I hope we can steer away from such statements. Thanks.

This fails as a rebuttal and clearly shows you don't believe in your position.

To reiterate it's ability or inability to fly does not invalidate it's role as a transitional fossil. I dont even know why you would presume that. You need to learn how to think.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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8/22/2010 12:51:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:45:42 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:37:55 AM, jharry wrote:
Noob, that's a funny word.

I'm not trying to say that if it didn't fly it could be what you say it is.

How about this. If it didn't fly, how would the "feathers" help in it's survival?

And would these feathers inhibit it's chances just as much?

I don't think you understand the basics of evolution.

Mutations are generally quite small scale, a wingless species is not meant to suddenly give birth to something with fully developed wings and the ability to use them. This is why the term transistional fossil is a painful and annoying 'simplication', any lifeform that hopes to survive and breed is a fully viable creature in it's right.

Mutations that harm a creatures ability to live and breed will generally die out, mutations that aid a creatures ability to live and breed should generally propogate. Mutations that do neither will neither be selected for or against, and may remain in the population. Successive mutations on the same theme turning them into a negative or a positive.

What you really shoud be demanding evidence for are 'part developed' wings.

Whoa whoa whoa. Slow down. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. I didn't take traditional biology in High School (yes that is my highest learning, and a GED at that) we studied ag biology. It counted for credit in biology. It was more relevant to our lives, it "mattered" more to our lives and where we lived.

And I'm trying to get to mutations. Please just help me to understand more then anything.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/22/2010 12:51:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/22/2010 12:48:19 AM, jharry wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:46:40 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:40:08 AM, jharry wrote:
At 8/22/2010 12:35:41 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
He didn't answer my question yet? :(

Jharry, are you a young earth creationist?

No. I'm sorry, I didn't know you asked. I believe in micro-evolution or survival of the fittest, but that is as far as it goes.

If I were to start hypothesizing about all I think about this I would probably be excommunicated.

I thought you were Catholic?

And?

Yet another Christian who knows f*ck all about his religion, awesome.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.