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Are we neanderthals?

janesix
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7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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7/24/2015 5:11:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

Compared to the intellect of man 200 years ago I would say we are
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August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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7/24/2015 8:07:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

No we are not Neanderthals. We are homo sapiens. actually homo sapien sapiens. we shared a common ancestor with them up till about 1Million years ago. When we both came out of Africa into Northern Europe we co-existed for awhile before eventually vanquishing them. why we DID prevail is still debated today among Anthropologists. the favored theory is our brains evolved a bit more.

http://news.discovery.com...
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janesix
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7/25/2015 1:51:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/24/2015 8:07:42 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

No we are not Neanderthals. We are homo sapiens. actually homo sapien sapiens. we shared a common ancestor with them up till about 1Million years ago. When we both came out of Africa into Northern Europe we co-existed for awhile before eventually vanquishing them. why we DID prevail is still debated today among Anthropologists. the favored theory is our brains evolved a bit more.

http://news.discovery.com...

Then how could we mate with them if we are seperate species?
tejretics
Posts: 6,086
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7/25/2015 2:48:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/25/2015 1:51:24 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/24/2015 8:07:42 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

No we are not Neanderthals. We are homo sapiens. actually homo sapien sapiens. we shared a common ancestor with them up till about 1Million years ago. When we both came out of Africa into Northern Europe we co-existed for awhile before eventually vanquishing them. why we DID prevail is still debated today among Anthropologists. the favored theory is our brains evolved a bit more.

http://news.discovery.com...

Then how could we mate with them if we are seperate species?

Your logic: only same species can mate. Then how do you explain the existence of (1) the lemon (Citrus x limon) or (2) the liger (Panthera leo x Panthera tigris)?
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Aran55633
Posts: 109
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7/25/2015 10:29:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/25/2015 1:51:24 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/24/2015 8:07:42 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

No we are not Neanderthals. We are homo sapiens. actually homo sapien sapiens. we shared a common ancestor with them up till about 1Million years ago. When we both came out of Africa into Northern Europe we co-existed for awhile before eventually vanquishing them. why we DID prevail is still debated today among Anthropologists. the favored theory is our brains evolved a bit more.

http://news.discovery.com...

Then how could we mate with them if we are seperate species?

This is where the lines can get a bit blurred. Animals cannot always be placed into separate, arbitrarily erected categories easily.

I'll point out that humans and neanderthals are sometimes considered separate subspecies within the same species. The paleontological community is moving away from this position, but that is still the opinion of some.

And there are other examples of separate species producing fertile offspring.
Aran55633
Posts: 109
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7/25/2015 10:48:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/24/2015 8:07:42 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

No we are not Neanderthals. We are homo sapiens. actually homo sapien sapiens. we shared a common ancestor with them up till about 1Million years ago. When we both came out of Africa into Northern Europe we co-existed for awhile before eventually vanquishing them. why we DID prevail is still debated today among Anthropologists. the favored theory is our brains evolved a bit more.

http://news.discovery.com...

Being pedantic... I'll point out that Neanderthals did not come out of Africa. They arose, by all indications, in Europe.

And when you're talking about two contemporaneous species, it's incorrect to say that one is "more evolved" in any respect. If one is, by some measure, superior to another, that's simply because of the evolutionary path followed by each of the two species.

An Orca is not any more or less evolved than an anchovy in terms of intelligence, or in terms of size, or by way of any of its other attributes.
janesix
Posts: 3,454
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7/25/2015 12:42:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/25/2015 2:48:57 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/25/2015 1:51:24 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/24/2015 8:07:42 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

No we are not Neanderthals. We are homo sapiens. actually homo sapien sapiens. we shared a common ancestor with them up till about 1Million years ago. When we both came out of Africa into Northern Europe we co-existed for awhile before eventually vanquishing them. why we DID prevail is still debated today among Anthropologists. the favored theory is our brains evolved a bit more.

http://news.discovery.com...

Then how could we mate with them if we are seperate species?

Your logic: only same species can mate. Then how do you explain the existence of (1) the lemon (Citrus x limon) or (2) the liger (Panthera leo x Panthera tigris)?

Then what is the definition of species, if it is not a mating group?
janesix
Posts: 3,454
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7/25/2015 12:44:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/25/2015 2:48:57 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/25/2015 1:51:24 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/24/2015 8:07:42 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

No we are not Neanderthals. We are homo sapiens. actually homo sapien sapiens. we shared a common ancestor with them up till about 1Million years ago. When we both came out of Africa into Northern Europe we co-existed for awhile before eventually vanquishing them. why we DID prevail is still debated today among Anthropologists. the favored theory is our brains evolved a bit more.

http://news.discovery.com...

Then how could we mate with them if we are seperate species?

Your logic: only same species can mate. Then how do you explain the existence of (1) the lemon (Citrus x limon) or (2) the liger (Panthera leo x Panthera tigris)?

Then what is the definition of species, if it is not a mating group?

Species: a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. The species is the principal natural taxonomic unit, ranking below a genus and denoted by a Latin binomial
tejretics
Posts: 6,086
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7/25/2015 12:44:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/25/2015 12:42:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/25/2015 2:48:57 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/25/2015 1:51:24 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/24/2015 8:07:42 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

No we are not Neanderthals. We are homo sapiens. actually homo sapien sapiens. we shared a common ancestor with them up till about 1Million years ago. When we both came out of Africa into Northern Europe we co-existed for awhile before eventually vanquishing them. why we DID prevail is still debated today among Anthropologists. the favored theory is our brains evolved a bit more.

http://news.discovery.com...

Then how could we mate with them if we are seperate species?

Your logic: only same species can mate. Then how do you explain the existence of (1) the lemon (Citrus x limon) or (2) the liger (Panthera leo x Panthera tigris)?

Then what is the definition of species, if it is not a mating group?

The offspring produced must be *fertile*. Ligers/lemons/Neanderthal-human hybrids are all infertile (generally). But there are other problems:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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7/25/2015 1:01:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

All non Africans are part Neanderthal: http://news.discovery.com...
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janesix
Posts: 3,454
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7/25/2015 1:05:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/25/2015 12:44:51 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/25/2015 12:42:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 7/25/2015 2:48:57 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/25/2015 1:51:24 AM, janesix wrote:
At 7/24/2015 8:07:42 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/24/2015 4:15:01 PM, janesix wrote:
Since we could mate with Neaderthals and produce viable offspring, does that then mean that we are the same species?

No we are not Neanderthals. We are homo sapiens. actually homo sapien sapiens. we shared a common ancestor with them up till about 1Million years ago. When we both came out of Africa into Northern Europe we co-existed for awhile before eventually vanquishing them. why we DID prevail is still debated today among Anthropologists. the favored theory is our brains evolved a bit more.

http://news.discovery.com...

Then how could we mate with them if we are seperate species?

Your logic: only same species can mate. Then how do you explain the existence of (1) the lemon (Citrus x limon) or (2) the liger (Panthera leo x Panthera tigris)?

Then what is the definition of species, if it is not a mating group?

The offspring produced must be *fertile*. Ligers/lemons/Neanderthal-human hybrids are all infertile (generally). But there are other problems:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Neanderthal -human hybrids would have had to be fertile, or how would we have gotten their dna?

Although it's possible the hybrids could only mate with a parent species. It happens in plants. So maybe that's what's going on.