Total Posts:5|Showing Posts:1-5
Jump to topic:

Quarks and Leptons Why not Observable?

Sooner
Posts: 1,012
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2015 1:57:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Quarks and Leptons exist within atoms. But they are not observed outside of atoms. Why do you think this is? Do you think there is anything simpler than quarks and leptons?
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2015 8:45:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/26/2015 1:57:17 AM, Sooner wrote:
Quarks and Leptons exist within atoms. But they are not observed outside of atoms. Why do you think this is? Do you think there is anything simpler than quarks and leptons?

Scientists are fairly sure that quarks and leptons are elementary particles. An electron is a lepton. Here is a video showing the wave function of one in an atom.

Electrons can exist outside of atoms, eg. the electron guns used in cathode ray tubes (old TV and computer screens).

I don't have any expertise with quarks. I seem to remember that they are incredibly small and always bound in triplets within protons and neutrons. That is entirely from memory, so I could be wrong. Here is what Wikipedia has to say:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Due to a phenomenon known as color confinement, quarks are never directly observed or found in isolation; they can be found only within hadrons, such as baryons (of which protons and neutrons are examples), and mesons.
kp98
Posts: 729
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2015 7:03:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
An informal way to imagine why quarks are never observed in their free state is that energy is required for break up a collection of quarks (such as a neutron or proton). Such quark collections are bound so tightly that the energy to split them - instead of causing the bits to fly apart- gets turned itself into quarks (via e=mc2) that stick to the fragments.
Basically, a quark collections (such as a neutron or proton) won't split until you have put in enough energy to produce new quark collections rather than free quarks.

It may well be true that quarks are truly fundamental - in which case it is actually quite a milestone in the history of science. But in someways that creates a whole new bunch of problems. Instead of looking for every more fundamental constituents of matter, now physicist have to explain why quarks are as they are - and indeed why there are quarks at all. I think those problems will not be solved in the lifetime of most posters here.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2015 7:49:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/26/2015 1:57:17 AM, Sooner wrote:
Quarks and Leptons exist within atoms. But they are not observed outside of atoms. Why do you think this is? Do you think there is anything simpler than quarks and leptons?

they are only observed when physicists smash atoms in those super-colliders. and then we have to remember they are only visible for a tiny fraction of a second. something like 0.000001 of a second!! Smashing these atoms is how we have come to know about sub-atomic particles. We keep getting faster and more powerful colliders and so we keep finding smaller particles. so far the quark is the smallest unit we found from the nucleus. unless you include the recently found Higgs Boson which is a mass-carrier particle. (so I guess that WOULD be smaller, huh?)
but if Im not mistaking, I dont think the lepton is a sub-atomic particle but is the family in which electrons belong. somebody correct me on that if wrong!)
sure I think we will find smaller stuff. maybe not particles though! could be those "strings" from that Theory. maybe the vibration of them makes the particles? I tried to read Brain Greens book on it a couple years ago and coudnt get through it but I am looking to see a video on it that a friend lent me on DVD.
I think the smallest unit out there might be the Graviton. wehavent found it yet!! all these years! stands to reason: gravity being the weakest force = it has the smallest particle for carrying it?
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2015 7:52:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/26/2015 8:45:10 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/26/2015 1:57:17 AM, Sooner wrote:
Quarks and Leptons exist within atoms. But they are not observed outside of atoms. Why do you think this is? Do you think there is anything simpler than quarks and leptons?

Scientists are fairly sure that quarks and leptons are elementary particles. An electron is a lepton. Here is a video showing the wave function of one in an atom.



Electrons can exist outside of atoms, eg. the electron guns used in cathode ray tubes (old TV and computer screens).

I don't have any expertise with quarks. I seem to remember that they are incredibly small and always bound in triplets within protons and neutrons. That is entirely from memory, so I could be wrong. Here is what Wikipedia has to say:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Due to a phenomenon known as color confinement, quarks are never directly observed or found in isolation; they can be found only within hadrons, such as baryons (of which protons and neutrons are examples), and mesons.

We all know that those sub-atomic particles of the OP are only observed when physicists smash atoms in those super-colliders. and then we have to remember they are only visible for a tiny fraction of a second. something like 0.000001 of a second!! Smashing these atoms is how we have come to know about sub-atomic particles. We keep getting faster and more powerful colliders and so we keep finding smaller particles. so far the quark is the smallest unit we found from the nucleus. unless you include the recently found Higgs Boson which is a mass-carrier particle. (so I guess that WOULD be smaller, huh?)
but if Im not mistaking, I dont think the lepton is a sub-atomic particle but is the family in which electrons belong. somebody correct me on that if wrong!)
sure I think we will find smaller stuff. maybe not particles though! could be those "strings" from that Theory. maybe the vibration of them makes the particles? I tried to read Brain Greens book on it a couple years ago and coudnt get through it but I am looking to see a video on it that a friend lent me on DVD.
I think the smallest unit out there might be the Graviton. we havent found it yet!! all these years! stands to reason: gravity being the weakest force = it has the smallest particle for carrying it?

and yes, electrons exist out of atoms all the time, this is not rare. they can be stripped and this makes the atom an ion either pos or neg...either cation or anion. hell, electricity is electrons outside of atoms. Ions are in the air around the ocean. (reason some say it is invigorating to us being on the beach!!
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!