Total Posts:12|Showing Posts:1-12
Jump to topic:

Fermis paradox

Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,087
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/6/2015 5:12:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Interesting paper I read recently titled "Eternity in six hours: intergalactic spreading of intelligent life and sharpening the Fermi paradox" should be easy to find a PDF of it if you google the title.

Basic idea behind it is that Fermis paradox does not only apply on a galactic scale but also a universal one because spreading to other galaxies is actually not as hard as it seems.

Subjects discussed include:

-Lots of maths showing why spreading throughout the universe with von neumann probes may be relatively easy.
-Practical motivations for why a civilization would want to do so.
-Some common explanations for fermis paradox are discussed, likely nothing you haven't already heard of but who knows?

So if this is something that intrests you go ahead and take a look and give your thoughts here. It is a fairly short paper (30 pages or so IIRC).
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/6/2015 7:40:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/6/2015 5:12:59 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
Interesting paper I read recently titled "Eternity in six hours: intergalactic spreading of intelligent life and sharpening the Fermi paradox" should be easy to find a PDF of it if you google the title.

Basic idea behind it is that Fermis paradox does not only apply on a galactic scale but also a universal one because spreading to other galaxies is actually not as hard as it seems.

Subjects discussed include:

-Lots of maths showing why spreading throughout the universe with von neumann probes may be relatively easy.
-Practical motivations for why a civilization would want to do so.
-Some common explanations for fermis paradox are discussed, likely nothing you haven't already heard of but who knows?

So if this is something that intrests you go ahead and take a look and give your thoughts here. It is a fairly short paper (30 pages or so IIRC).

I've always found Fermi's Paradox to be interesting, especially in the fact that it focuses on such an apparent contradiction between the PROBABILITY of advanced alien races and any evidence of such. Our solar system is very young compared to so many others in our "neighborhood" that other civs should have been born and died before ours even existed, yet there are no electromagnetic or energy-use signs which point toward any of them having existed. Also, being that we can't know the probability of life developing from non-life (due to the fact that we don't know how life started in the first place) then there is no way to extrapolate and come-up with the probability of multiple lives forming spontaneously on their own.
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,087
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/6/2015 9:29:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/6/2015 7:40:08 PM, Idealist wrote:

I've always found Fermi's Paradox to be interesting, especially in the fact that it focuses on such an apparent contradiction between the PROBABILITY of advanced alien races and any evidence of such. Our solar system is very young compared to so many others in our "neighborhood" that other civs should have been born and died before ours even existed, yet there are no electromagnetic or energy-use signs which point toward any of them having existed. Also, being that we can't know the probability of life developing from non-life (due to the fact that we don't know how life started in the first place) then there is no way to extrapolate and come-up with the probability of multiple lives forming spontaneously on their own.

If it is true that colonization of other galaxies is relatively easy then this means that not just the galaxy, as is usually thought when considering this paradox, but a large percentage of the observational universe is within reach of a potential ancient alien civilization, vastly increasing the number of places we could have been visited from which in turn makes the paradox all the harder to answer.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/7/2015 1:01:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/6/2015 5:12:59 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
Interesting paper I read recently titled "Eternity in six hours: intergalactic spreading of intelligent life and sharpening the Fermi paradox" should be easy to find a PDF of it if you google the title.

Basic idea behind it is that Fermis paradox does not only apply on a galactic scale but also a universal one because spreading to other galaxies is actually not as hard as it seems.

Subjects discussed include:

-Lots of maths showing why spreading throughout the universe with von neumann probes may be relatively easy.
-Practical motivations for why a civilization would want to do so.
-Some common explanations for fermis paradox are discussed, likely nothing you haven't already heard of but who knows?

So if this is something that intrests you go ahead and take a look and give your thoughts here. It is a fairly short paper (30 pages or so IIRC).

Interesting paper. The "eternity in 6 hours" refers to harvesting 6 hours of the Sun's total energy via a Dyson sphere (bye bye Mercury) to create and launch the Von Neumann probes which will colonize the visible universe.

No real answer to the Fermi paradox though.
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,087
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/7/2015 1:57:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 1:01:48 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/6/2015 5:12:59 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
Interesting paper I read recently titled "Eternity in six hours: intergalactic spreading of intelligent life and sharpening the Fermi paradox" should be easy to find a PDF of it if you google the title.

Basic idea behind it is that Fermis paradox does not only apply on a galactic scale but also a universal one because spreading to other galaxies is actually not as hard as it seems.

Subjects discussed include:

-Lots of maths showing why spreading throughout the universe with von neumann probes may be relatively easy.
-Practical motivations for why a civilization would want to do so.
-Some common explanations for fermis paradox are discussed, likely nothing you haven't already heard of but who knows?

So if this is something that intrests you go ahead and take a look and give your thoughts here. It is a fairly short paper (30 pages or so IIRC).

Interesting paper. The "eternity in 6 hours" refers to harvesting 6 hours of the Sun's total energy via a Dyson sphere (bye bye Mercury) to create and launch the Von Neumann probes which will colonize the visible universe.

No real answer to the Fermi paradox though.

The intent was not to provide an answer to the paradox. Quite the opposite in fact, the intent was to make any possible answer all the more difficult to make. To 'sharpen the paradox' as the authors put it.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/7/2015 11:53:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 1:57:11 PM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 9/7/2015 1:01:48 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/6/2015 5:12:59 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
Interesting paper I read recently titled "Eternity in six hours: intergalactic spreading of intelligent life and sharpening the Fermi paradox" should be easy to find a PDF of it if you google the title.

Basic idea behind it is that Fermis paradox does not only apply on a galactic scale but also a universal one because spreading to other galaxies is actually not as hard as it seems.

Subjects discussed include:

-Lots of maths showing why spreading throughout the universe with von neumann probes may be relatively easy.
-Practical motivations for why a civilization would want to do so.
-Some common explanations for fermis paradox are discussed, likely nothing you haven't already heard of but who knows?

So if this is something that intrests you go ahead and take a look and give your thoughts here. It is a fairly short paper (30 pages or so IIRC).

Interesting paper. The "eternity in 6 hours" refers to harvesting 6 hours of the Sun's total energy via a Dyson sphere (bye bye Mercury) to create and launch the Von Neumann probes which will colonize the visible universe.

No real answer to the Fermi paradox though.

The intent was not to provide an answer to the paradox. Quite the opposite in fact, the intent was to make any possible answer all the more difficult to make. To 'sharpen the paradox' as the authors put it.

Yes, that's right. I lean towards what I think they called the "Early Filter". That is, that high intelligence is just very, very rare even though life may be common. It's a rather depressing idea that we may be completely alone, at least in our galactic neighbourhood.
fromantle
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2015 6:15:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
A fascinating article but being a rather slow laymam much of the math left me reeling.
Professor Brian Cox speculated we may well be alone in our own galaxy.
It could be argued that we have taken four billion years to evolve which is about thirty percent of the age of the cosmos. Perhaps the other rare developing civilisations are at the same stage.
The idea of filters is sound; our present condition is perilous and this century may see us fragmented and wind back the clock extensively.
Long ago Alfred Wallace argued that natural selection could not explain the human brain. His queston: why have savages got brains equal to modern man since they don't need them?
Steven Pinker in 'How the Brain Works' suggests our brains are limited by natural
selection.Perhaps life is not rare but intelligence is.

' Could it be that one far-off day intelligent computers will speculate about their own lost origins? Will one of them tumble to the heretical truth that
neoryan1
Posts: 22
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2015 7:45:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Maybe we're not worth the time of visiting. Humans are not intelligent. Just the most intelligent of our planet giving us a feeling of brilliance in comparison. Humans have been around for 200,000 years. Relatively that's nothing. Compared to super-intelligent aliens we are probably the equivalent of our view of paramecium.
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,087
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2015 8:37:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 7:45:13 PM, neoryan1 wrote:
Maybe we're not worth the time of visiting. Humans are not intelligent. Just the most intelligent of our planet giving us a feeling of brilliance in comparison. Humans have been around for 200,000 years. Relatively that's nothing. Compared to super-intelligent aliens we are probably the equivalent of our view of paramecium.

Not sure you quite understand Fermis paradox... it has nothing to do with the fact that we have not been visited by aliens.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
kp98
Posts: 729
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/28/2015 8:53:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Not sure you quite understand Fermis paradox... it has nothing to do with the fact that we have not been visited by aliens.

Well, admitedly it's not only about the lack of actual visits, but Fermi definitely included the lack of alien visitors as an essential part of the paradox. To quote wikipedia, "... Fermi followed up on his comment with a series of calculations on the probability of Earth-like planets, the probability of life, the likely rise and duration of high technology, etc., and concluded that we ought to have been visited long ago and many times over." So saying 'it has nothing to do with...not been visted by aliens' is putting it a bit too strong.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/2/2015 12:59:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/6/2015 7:40:08 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 9/6/2015 5:12:59 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
Interesting paper I read recently titled "Eternity in six hours: intergalactic spreading of intelligent life and sharpening the Fermi paradox" should be easy to find a PDF of it if you google the title.

Basic idea behind it is that Fermis paradox does not only apply on a galactic scale but also a universal one because spreading to other galaxies is actually not as hard as it seems.

Subjects discussed include:

-Lots of maths showing why spreading throughout the universe with von neumann probes may be relatively easy.
-Practical motivations for why a civilization would want to do so.
-Some common explanations for fermis paradox are discussed, likely nothing you haven't already heard of but who knows?

So if this is something that intrests you go ahead and take a look and give your thoughts here. It is a fairly short paper (30 pages or so IIRC).

I've always found Fermi's Paradox to be interesting, especially in the fact that it focuses on such an apparent contradiction between the PROBABILITY of advanced alien races and any evidence of such. Our solar system is very young compared to so many others in our "neighborhood" that other civs should have been born and died before ours even existed, yet there are no electromagnetic or energy-use signs which point toward any of them having existed. Also, being that we can't know the probability of life developing from non-life (due to the fact that we don't know how life started in the first place) then there is no way to extrapolate and come-up with the probability of multiple lives forming spontaneously on their own.

This whole idea of an advanced alien race that got wiped out somehow seems somewhat impossible. I mean supposing a civilization had the capability to spread all over the galaxy and even to other galaxies, how would it ever cease to exist. Disease would be nearly impossible to spread to so many planets quickly enough that it couldn't be stopped. War also doesn't seem likely as it would be very easy just to find another planet away from the fighting and hide there. Natural disasters are also impossible, even a star exploding would only wipe out a few planets and if you're spread over an entire galaxy thats basically nothing. If there ever was an advanced enough alien civilization capable of interstellar travel and terraforming (which you would likely need to live on more than one planet) to exist in our galaxy I think there's a better chance of it still being around than there is for it to have been wiped out.