Total Posts:19|Showing Posts:1-19
Jump to topic:

"126 IQ, virtually no brain"

johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/7/2015 6:03:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 5:01:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Very strange story: http://www.rifters.com...

But isn't consciousness produced by the brain?,

How so when there is virtually no brain, and what to speak of those who are brain damaged and the brain is severely compromised and they suddenly display very lucid consciousness just before death.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/7/2015 7:03:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well then.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/7/2015 8:23:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 6:03:54 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 10/7/2015 5:01:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Very strange story: http://www.rifters.com...

But isn't consciousness produced by the brain?,

How so when there is virtually no brain, and what to speak of those who are brain damaged and the brain is severely compromised and they suddenly display very lucid consciousness just before death.

He had a brain, it was just very small.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/7/2015 8:25:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 7:03:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well then.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/7/2015 8:29:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:25:02 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 7:03:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well then.

lol, do you have anything interesting to say?
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/7/2015 8:30:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:29:00 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:25:02 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 7:03:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well then.

lol, do you have anything interesting to say?

Not really. I don't know enough stuff of this nature to be anything other than intrigued.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/7/2015 11:11:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 5:01:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Very strange story: http://www.rifters.com...

The relevant bit:

The point, though, is that under the right conditions, brain damage may paradoxically result in brain enhancement. Small-world, scale-free networking" focused, intensified, overclocked" might turbocharge a fragment of a brain into acting like the whole thing.

As the author points out, this opens up all kinds of intriguing possibilities for creating super-intelligent humans in the future just by stressing brains at the development stage.

Thanks for the link.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/8/2015 2:10:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 8:23:11 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/7/2015 6:03:54 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 10/7/2015 5:01:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Very strange story: http://www.rifters.com...

But isn't consciousness produced by the brain?,

How so when there is virtually no brain, and what to speak of those who are brain damaged and the brain is severely compromised and they suddenly display very lucid consciousness just before death.

He had a brain, it was just very small.

Hence why I said virtually no brain.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/8/2015 4:18:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:10:05 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:23:11 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/7/2015 6:03:54 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 10/7/2015 5:01:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Very strange story: http://www.rifters.com...

But isn't consciousness produced by the brain?,

How so when there is virtually no brain, and what to speak of those who are brain damaged and the brain is severely compromised and they suddenly display very lucid consciousness just before death.

He had a brain, it was just very small.

Hence why I said virtually no brain.

Then what's the problem here. It would be one thing if he were conscious without any brain whatsoever, but since he did have a brain, his consciousness is hardly extraordinary unless you can show that conscious requires a brain of a certain size.
kp98
Posts: 729
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/8/2015 4:29:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
his consciousness is hardly extraordinary unless you can show that conscious requires a brain of a certain size.

It's still interesting though. Why do we have such big brains if they are not needed?
More research needed. I hope it's happening!
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/8/2015 4:44:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 4:18:27 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:10:05 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 10/7/2015 8:23:11 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/7/2015 6:03:54 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 10/7/2015 5:01:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Very strange story: http://www.rifters.com...

But isn't consciousness produced by the brain?,

How so when there is virtually no brain, and what to speak of those who are brain damaged and the brain is severely compromised and they suddenly display very lucid consciousness just before death.

He had a brain, it was just very small.

Hence why I said virtually no brain.

Then what's the problem here. It would be one thing if he were conscious without any brain whatsoever, but since he did have a brain, his consciousness is hardly extraordinary unless you can show that conscious requires a brain of a certain size.

The point is that 95% of his cranium is full of fluid and leaving very little room for a brain, what does remain should leave him a vegetative state, because the parts of the brain thought responsible for consciousness are compromised. But instead the patient is still able to display a high level of consciousness, even without the parts of his brain thought responsible for consciousness..

Did you even read your own link?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/8/2015 4:45:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 4:29:54 PM, kp98 wrote:
his consciousness is hardly extraordinary unless you can show that conscious requires a brain of a certain size.

It's still interesting though. Why do we have such big brains if they are not needed?
More research needed. I hope it's happening!

Very interesting indeed. I hope our brains really are as plastic as this story seems to imply. It would certainly make the project of enhancing human intelligence a lot easier.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/11/2015 5:22:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 4:29:54 PM, kp98 wrote:
his consciousness is hardly extraordinary unless you can show that conscious requires a brain of a certain size.

It's still interesting though. Why do we have such big brains if they are not needed?
More research needed. I hope it's happening!

I'd speculate that having a brain larger than necessary provides a survival advantage because it allows for the brain to be more resistant to damage. The extra brain tissue is available to be reprogrammed in case of injury. I'm kind of suspicious of the suggestion that because a good IQ could be sustained, that means that all brain functionality is maintained. Maybe functions like emotions, memory of past events, or other things are sacrificed. But maybe not.

Humans have two lungs and two kidneys, even though only one is needed. Organs like the liver are larger than necessary when it's fully functional.

One of the puzzles of evolution is that the current human species actually has a smaller brain than Neanderthals. Various explanations have been proposed. [http://www.tested.com...]
kp98
Posts: 729
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/11/2015 12:03:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm kind of suspicious of the suggestion that because a good IQ could be sustained, that means that all brain functionality is maintained.

That is a fair point. What IQ tests actually measure is always up for debate. They certainly don't test every function the brain performs. Nonetheless, even allowing for redundancy I'm pretty sure that, say, Alzheimer's disease causes problems with much less that 95% brain loss - most people would expect that less much loss to be fatal.

But surely this story as is stands is too vague and anecodotal to cast real doubt on the fundamental importance of the brain for mental function, particularly as things like Alzheimer's and prion diseases such as BSE show that brain damage is definitely associated with mental impairment.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/11/2015 3:34:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/11/2015 5:22:00 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 10/8/2015 4:29:54 PM, kp98 wrote:
his consciousness is hardly extraordinary unless you can show that conscious requires a brain of a certain size.

It's still interesting though. Why do we have such big brains if they are not needed?
More research needed. I hope it's happening!

I'd speculate that having a brain larger than necessary provides a survival advantage because it allows for the brain to be more resistant to damage. The extra brain tissue is available to be reprogrammed in case of injury. I'm kind of suspicious of the suggestion that because a good IQ could be sustained, that means that all brain functionality is maintained. Maybe functions like emotions, memory of past events, or other things are sacrificed. But maybe not.


Well, he was functional enough to get through life without knowing about his condition, and to get a PhD in mathematics. So he couldn't have been that impaired. It's possible that this patient would have had a much higher IQ without hydrocephalus (although, the article claims that the average IQ of people with this condition is not affected).

Even if true, this story doesn't prove that brain size is irrelevant to intelligence. It just shows that given the right conditions, the brain is capable of making very efficient use of what brain matter is available. If the patient had a greater amount of "efficient brain matter", he probably would have been even smarter.
nueron
Posts: 33
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2015 7:14:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 5:01:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Very strange story: http://www.rifters.com... : :

I understand this very well. If you knew how we were created, then it wouldn't be a problem for you to understand that consciousness does not exist in a brain. Instead, a brain is observed because of consciousness.
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/29/2015 12:54:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/11/2015 5:22:00 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 10/8/2015 4:29:54 PM, kp98 wrote:
his consciousness is hardly extraordinary unless you can show that conscious requires a brain of a certain size.

It's still interesting though. Why do we have such big brains if they are not needed?
More research needed. I hope it's happening!

I'd speculate that having a brain larger than necessary provides a survival advantage because it allows for the brain to be more resistant to damage. The extra brain tissue is available to be reprogrammed in case of injury. I'm kind of suspicious of the suggestion that because a good IQ could be sustained, that means that all brain functionality is maintained. Maybe functions like emotions, memory of past events, or other things are sacrificed. But maybe not.

Humans have two lungs and two kidneys, even though only one is needed. Organs like the liver are larger than necessary when it's fully functional.

One of the puzzles of evolution is that the current human species actually has a smaller brain than Neanderthals. Various explanations have been proposed. [http://www.tested.com...]

That Neanderthals were less intelligent than other humans is becoming less and less believed. They were not really all that primitive compared to their contemporaries, and it seemed they only had a collection of superficial traits also present in living humans that made them look what we Europeans considered more barbarian at the time.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com...
http://www.sciencedaily.com...
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.evolutionnews.org...
http://www.theguardian.com...
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
Alexia_Francesconi
Posts: 28
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/29/2015 2:45:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 5:01:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Very strange story: http://www.rifters.com...

Interesting story; thanks for bringing this to my attention =)
Old enough to know better, young enough to not care =P - Alexia Francesconi

=)