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Star System WTF 001

dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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10/15/2015 10:43:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
SETI has a new number one candidate on which they are focusing attention:

http://www.smh.com.au...

It has been called the most bizarre star in our galaxy and some think it just might be home to high-tech aliens.

The unlikely suggestion that aliens live in this star system is being taken so seriously that a team of astrophysicists wants to train a radio telescope in its direction to determine if any signals could indicate advanced extraterrestrial life.


The 'F' stands for a four letter word. Flux.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,667
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10/15/2015 1:14:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 10:43:49 AM, dee-em wrote:
SETI has a new number one candidate on which they are focusing attention:

http://www.smh.com.au...

It has been called the most bizarre star in our galaxy and some think it just might be home to high-tech aliens.

The unlikely suggestion that aliens live in this star system is being taken so seriously that a team of astrophysicists wants to train a radio telescope in its direction to determine if any signals could indicate advanced extraterrestrial life.


The 'F' stands for a four letter word. Flux.

The illustrations seem silly. How the heck could so much matter be gathered as to construct something that encompasses a star? At least they're calling it an "outlandish" hypothesis.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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10/15/2015 1:27:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 1:14:47 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/15/2015 10:43:49 AM, dee-em wrote:
SETI has a new number one candidate on which they are focusing attention:

http://www.smh.com.au...

It has been called the most bizarre star in our galaxy and some think it just might be home to high-tech aliens.

The unlikely suggestion that aliens live in this star system is being taken so seriously that a team of astrophysicists wants to train a radio telescope in its direction to determine if any signals could indicate advanced extraterrestrial life.


The 'F' stands for a four letter word. Flux.

The illustrations seem silly. How the heck could so much matter be gathered as to construct something that encompasses a star?

Planets, especially gas giants. Jupiter, for example, is BIG.

At least they're calling it an "outlandish" hypothesis.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,667
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10/15/2015 1:51:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 1:27:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:14:47 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/15/2015 10:43:49 AM, dee-em wrote:
SETI has a new number one candidate on which they are focusing attention:

http://www.smh.com.au...

It has been called the most bizarre star in our galaxy and some think it just might be home to high-tech aliens.

The unlikely suggestion that aliens live in this star system is being taken so seriously that a team of astrophysicists wants to train a radio telescope in its direction to determine if any signals could indicate advanced extraterrestrial life.


The 'F' stands for a four letter word. Flux.

The illustrations seem silly. How the heck could so much matter be gathered as to construct something that encompasses a star?

Planets, especially gas giants. Jupiter, for example, is BIG.

At least they're calling it an "outlandish" hypothesis.

I understand that, but given that this star is an F-type main-sequence star, it is likely about the same size or slightly larger than our sun, right? If that's the case, we could do some rudimentary mathematical estimations (based on the speculative images, and how much light is being obstructed) to get *some* idea of how much mass that it would take to create something of that scale; or more comparatively, how many Jupiter's it might take. This is assuming that the "builders" are capable of "harvesting" entire planets of that size.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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10/15/2015 2:04:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 1:51:27 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:27:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:14:47 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/15/2015 10:43:49 AM, dee-em wrote:
SETI has a new number one candidate on which they are focusing attention:

http://www.smh.com.au...

It has been called the most bizarre star in our galaxy and some think it just might be home to high-tech aliens.

The unlikely suggestion that aliens live in this star system is being taken so seriously that a team of astrophysicists wants to train a radio telescope in its direction to determine if any signals could indicate advanced extraterrestrial life.


The 'F' stands for a four letter word. Flux.

The illustrations seem silly. How the heck could so much matter be gathered as to construct something that encompasses a star?

Planets, especially gas giants. Jupiter, for example, is BIG.

At least they're calling it an "outlandish" hypothesis.

I understand that, but given that this star is an F-type main-sequence star, it is likely about the same size or slightly larger than our sun, right? If that's the case, we could do some rudimentary mathematical estimations (based on the speculative images, and how much light is being obstructed) to get *some* idea of how much mass that it would take to create something of that scale; or more comparatively, how many Jupiter's it might take.

How would you make that calculation? The material could be as thin as sails (even a sail can block light) in the case of a Dyson swarm or it could be much thicker if it actually had to support an environment for life on its inner surface.

This is assuming that the "builders" are capable of "harvesting" entire planets of that size.

It would assume an advanced civilization (far ahead of ours), yes.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,494
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10/15/2015 2:29:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 2:04:09 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:51:27 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:27:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:14:47 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/15/2015 10:43:49 AM, dee-em wrote:
SETI has a new number one candidate on which they are focusing attention:

http://www.smh.com.au...

It has been called the most bizarre star in our galaxy and some think it just might be home to high-tech aliens.

The unlikely suggestion that aliens live in this star system is being taken so seriously that a team of astrophysicists wants to train a radio telescope in its direction to determine if any signals could indicate advanced extraterrestrial life.


The 'F' stands for a four letter word. Flux.

The illustrations seem silly. How the heck could so much matter be gathered as to construct something that encompasses a star?

Planets, especially gas giants. Jupiter, for example, is BIG.

At least they're calling it an "outlandish" hypothesis.

I understand that, but given that this star is an F-type main-sequence star, it is likely about the same size or slightly larger than our sun, right? If that's the case, we could do some rudimentary mathematical estimations (based on the speculative images, and how much light is being obstructed) to get *some* idea of how much mass that it would take to create something of that scale; or more comparatively, how many Jupiter's it might take.

How would you make that calculation? The material could be as thin as sails (even a sail can block light) in the case of a Dyson swarm

Of course, they used a vacuum cleaner. That's how you collect a lot of material. And it didn't lose suction!
This space for rent.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,667
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10/15/2015 2:50:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 2:04:09 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:51:27 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:27:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:14:47 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/15/2015 10:43:49 AM, dee-em wrote:
SETI has a new number one candidate on which they are focusing attention:

http://www.smh.com.au...

It has been called the most bizarre star in our galaxy and some think it just might be home to high-tech aliens.

The unlikely suggestion that aliens live in this star system is being taken so seriously that a team of astrophysicists wants to train a radio telescope in its direction to determine if any signals could indicate advanced extraterrestrial life.


The 'F' stands for a four letter word. Flux.

The illustrations seem silly. How the heck could so much matter be gathered as to construct something that encompasses a star?

Planets, especially gas giants. Jupiter, for example, is BIG.

At least they're calling it an "outlandish" hypothesis.

I understand that, but given that this star is an F-type main-sequence star, it is likely about the same size or slightly larger than our sun, right? If that's the case, we could do some rudimentary mathematical estimations (based on the speculative images, and how much light is being obstructed) to get *some* idea of how much mass that it would take to create something of that scale; or more comparatively, how many Jupiter's it might take.

How would you make that calculation? The material could be as thin as sails (even a sail can block light) in the case of a Dyson swarm or it could be much thicker if it actually had to support an environment for life on its inner surface.

I know, lots of known unknowns and unknown unknowns. And I had to Google 'Dyson Swarm'. Cool.

Anyway, I'd figure we do something like base the structure's minimum distance from the star on the highest melting point we know, say Tantalum Hafnium Carbide (~3,990 degrees C), estimate the required area of coverage based on the light interference, account from a more efficient material with less molecular mass (Tantalum Hafnium Carbide is about 962.278), and calculate mass based upon variable average thicknesses of the structure. Certainly, it can't be trusted to have any true accuracy, but I think we can get a ballpark figure of the quantity of Jupiter-like planets would be required. But of course, this is all just speculation on my part.

This is assuming that the "builders" are capable of "harvesting" entire planets of that size.

It would assume an advanced civilization (far ahead of ours), yes.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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10/15/2015 4:20:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 10:43:49 AM, dee-em wrote:
SETI has a new number one candidate on which they are focusing attention:

http://www.smh.com.au...

It has been called the most bizarre star in our galaxy and some think it just might be home to high-tech aliens.

The unlikely suggestion that aliens live in this star system is being taken so seriously that a team of astrophysicists wants to train a radio telescope in its direction to determine if any signals could indicate advanced extraterrestrial life.


The 'F' stands for a four letter word. Flux.

I read a couple stories on this... Whatever is happening its fun to speculate.
kp98
Posts: 729
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10/15/2015 5:29:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Having read the article, I don't believe it. I can accept aliens constructing a Dyson sphere around their sun, but F for flux? For flux sake keep it real.
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/15/2015 8:20:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's 1,481 light years from Earth, which means those structures were there during the Dark Ages. There's a chance that they've been destroyed since, along with the civilization that built them.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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10/15/2015 11:23:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 5:29:14 PM, kp98 wrote:
Having read the article, I don't believe it. I can accept aliens constructing a Dyson sphere around their sun, but F for flux? For flux sake keep it real.

Lol. I thought it was cute.
dee-em
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10/15/2015 11:25:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 4:20:42 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/15/2015 10:43:49 AM, dee-em wrote:
SETI has a new number one candidate on which they are focusing attention:

http://www.smh.com.au...

It has been called the most bizarre star in our galaxy and some think it just might be home to high-tech aliens.

The unlikely suggestion that aliens live in this star system is being taken so seriously that a team of astrophysicists wants to train a radio telescope in its direction to determine if any signals could indicate advanced extraterrestrial life.


The 'F' stands for a four letter word. Flux.

I read a couple stories on this... Whatever is happening its fun to speculate.

Yes. My bet is that it will be a natural phenomenon but it's nice to dream.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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10/15/2015 11:33:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 8:20:56 PM, SM2 wrote:
It's 1,481 light years from Earth, which means those structures were there during the Dark Ages. There's a chance that they've been destroyed since, along with the civilization that built them.

That's a bit of a pessimistic viewpoint. I would have thought that if a civilization could build something like this, they would have planned for it to last for a little longer than 1,500 years. Think of the cost in time and materials. It probably would have taken that long to construct. What makes you think we are seeing the endpoint of the project rather than the beginning or the middle?

Also such a civilization would be star faring, surely?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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10/15/2015 11:40:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 11:33:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 8:20:56 PM, SM2 wrote:
It's 1,481 light years from Earth, which means those structures were there during the Dark Ages. There's a chance that they've been destroyed since, along with the civilization that built them.

That's a bit of a pessimistic viewpoint. I would have thought that if a civilization could build something like this, they would have planned for it to last for a little longer than 1,500 years. Think of the cost in time and materials. It probably would have taken that long to construct. What makes you think we are seeing the endpoint of the project rather than the beginning or the middle?

Also such a civilization would be star faring, surely?

Totally agree. Any being capable of building something like the imagined was already past the loss of their home planet. Regardless, how is the news of their existence any less extraordinary?
dee-em
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10/16/2015 12:26:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 11:40:02 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/15/2015 11:33:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 8:20:56 PM, SM2 wrote:
It's 1,481 light years from Earth, which means those structures were there during the Dark Ages. There's a chance that they've been destroyed since, along with the civilization that built them.

That's a bit of a pessimistic viewpoint. I would have thought that if a civilization could build something like this, they would have planned for it to last for a little longer than 1,500 years. Think of the cost in time and materials. It probably would have taken that long to construct. What makes you think we are seeing the endpoint of the project rather than the beginning or the middle?

Also such a civilization would be star faring, surely?

Totally agree. Any being capable of building something like the imagined was already past the loss of their home planet. Regardless, how is the news of their existence any less extraordinary?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This is still only speculation. But yes, it would be Earth shattering if SETI detected some radio signal or other indication of life. To know that we are not alone in the universe. Wow.
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/16/2015 3:21:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 11:33:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 8:20:56 PM, SM2 wrote:
It's 1,481 light years from Earth, which means those structures were there during the Dark Ages. There's a chance that they've been destroyed since, along with the civilization that built them.

That's a bit of a pessimistic viewpoint. I would have thought that if a civilization could build something like this, they would have planned for it to last for a little longer than 1,500 years.

If their civilization collapsed or was conquered, it may have been actively destroyed in the process.

Think of the cost in time and materials. It probably would have taken that long to construct. What makes you think we are seeing the endpoint of the project rather than the beginning or the middle?

I don't think that. I think it'll turn out to be a natural phenomenon, and we'll have got our hopes up for nothing. Regardless, we should remember that the stuff we see in other star systems happened a long time ago.

Also such a civilization would be star faring, surely?

Not necessarily. Dyson spheres indicate a Type II civilization (using the Kardashev scale). Insterstellar travel indicates a Type III. That's several orders of magnitude greater. To put that in perspective, we could more easily make a Dyson sphere than they could a warp drive.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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10/16/2015 3:36:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 3:21:32 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/15/2015 11:33:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 8:20:56 PM, SM2 wrote:
It's 1,481 light years from Earth, which means those structures were there during the Dark Ages. There's a chance that they've been destroyed since, along with the civilization that built them.

That's a bit of a pessimistic viewpoint. I would have thought that if a civilization could build something like this, they would have planned for it to last for a little longer than 1,500 years.

If their civilization collapsed or was conquered, it may have been actively destroyed in the process.

Yes, but I don't see the reason why you immediately seized on this possibility.

Think of the cost in time and materials. It probably would have taken that long to construct. What makes you think we are seeing the endpoint of the project rather than the beginning or the middle?

I don't think that. I think it'll turn out to be a natural phenomenon, and we'll have got our hopes up for nothing. Regardless, we should remember that the stuff we see in other star systems happened a long time ago.

1,500 years is not that long really.

Also such a civilization would be star faring, surely?

Not necessarily. Dyson spheres indicate a Type II civilization (using the Kardashev scale). Insterstellar travel indicates a Type III. That's several orders of magnitude greater. To put that in perspective, we could more easily make a Dyson sphere than they could a warp drive.

I wasn't necessarily talking about FTL. A civilization with the resources for a Dyson Sphere would have no problem sending out a few hundred colony ships. Space faring would be slow but not impossible.
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/16/2015 5:32:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 3:36:16 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/16/2015 3:21:32 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/15/2015 11:33:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 8:20:56 PM, SM2 wrote:
It's 1,481 light years from Earth, which means those structures were there during the Dark Ages. There's a chance that they've been destroyed since, along with the civilization that built them.

That's a bit of a pessimistic viewpoint. I would have thought that if a civilization could build something like this, they would have planned for it to last for a little longer than 1,500 years.

If their civilization collapsed or was conquered, it may have been actively destroyed in the process.

Yes, but I don't see the reason why you immediately seized on this possibility.

I'm a violent person.


Think of the cost in time and materials. It probably would have taken that long to construct. What makes you think we are seeing the endpoint of the project rather than the beginning or the middle?

I don't think that. I think it'll turn out to be a natural phenomenon, and we'll have got our hopes up for nothing. Regardless, we should remember that the stuff we see in other star systems happened a long time ago.

1,500 years is not that long really.

That's the age of Western Civilization now. Look how much has changed.


Also such a civilization would be star faring, surely?

Not necessarily. Dyson spheres indicate a Type II civilization (using the Kardashev scale). Insterstellar travel indicates a Type III. That's several orders of magnitude greater. To put that in perspective, we could more easily make a Dyson sphere than they could a warp drive.

I wasn't necessarily talking about FTL. A civilization with the resources for a Dyson Sphere would have no problem sending out a few hundred colony ships. Space faring would be slow but not impossible.

They'd have to be going FTL to reach anywhere in a reasonable time period. Otherwise, leaving the warmth of their sun would be suicide.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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10/16/2015 8:56:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 5:32:51 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/16/2015 3:36:16 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/16/2015 3:21:32 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/15/2015 11:33:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 8:20:56 PM, SM2 wrote:
It's 1,481 light years from Earth, which means those structures were there during the Dark Ages. There's a chance that they've been destroyed since, along with the civilization that built them.

That's a bit of a pessimistic viewpoint. I would have thought that if a civilization could build something like this, they would have planned for it to last for a little longer than 1,500 years.

If their civilization collapsed or was conquered, it may have been actively destroyed in the process.

Yes, but I don't see the reason why you immediately seized on this possibility.

I'm a violent person.

Okay. Lol.
Maybe we've all been watching too many Hollywood sci-fi movies.

Think of the cost in time and materials. It probably would have taken that long to construct. What makes you think we are seeing the endpoint of the project rather than the beginning or the middle?

I don't think that. I think it'll turn out to be a natural phenomenon, and we'll have got our hopes up for nothing. Regardless, we should remember that the stuff we see in other star systems happened a long time ago.

1,500 years is not that long really.

That's the age of Western Civilization now. Look how much has changed.

Older than that if you go back to the Greeks. And the Roman Colosseum is still standing (sort of). Age doesn't necessarily mean automatic destruction.

Also such a civilization would be star faring, surely?

Not necessarily. Dyson spheres indicate a Type II civilization (using the Kardashev scale). Insterstellar travel indicates a Type III. That's several orders of magnitude greater. To put that in perspective, we could more easily make a Dyson sphere than they could a warp drive.

I wasn't necessarily talking about FTL. A civilization with the resources for a Dyson Sphere would have no problem sending out a few hundred colony ships. Space faring would be slow but not impossible.

They'd have to be going FTL to reach anywhere in a reasonable time period. Otherwise, leaving the warmth of their sun would be suicide.

You don't think they would have fusion technology if they could take planets apart and convert the raw materials into exotic high-strength building materials?
SM2
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10/16/2015 9:13:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 8:56:59 AM, dee-em wrote:
You don't think they would have fusion technology if they could take planets apart and convert the raw materials into exotic high-strength building materials?

They'd have to carry a supply of fuel as well. It'd be like driving across the Sahara desert on a single tank of gas - you'd run out halfway, and then you'd die. And if you carried more fuel, you'd burn more of it lugging the extra weight. It's just not feasible.
dee-em
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10/16/2015 9:43:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 9:13:50 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/16/2015 8:56:59 AM, dee-em wrote:
You don't think they would have fusion technology if they could take planets apart and convert the raw materials into exotic high-strength building materials?

They'd have to carry a supply of fuel as well. It'd be like driving across the Sahara desert on a single tank of gas - you'd run out halfway, and then you'd die. And if you carried more fuel, you'd burn more of it lugging the extra weight. It's just not feasible.

Okay, okay. Don't confuse me with facts. :-)
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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10/16/2015 10:26:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 3:21:32 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/15/2015 11:33:26 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 8:20:56 PM, SM2 wrote:
It's 1,481 light years from Earth, which means those structures were there during the Dark Ages. There's a chance that they've been destroyed since, along with the civilization that built them.

That's a bit of a pessimistic viewpoint. I would have thought that if a civilization could build something like this, they would have planned for it to last for a little longer than 1,500 years.

If their civilization collapsed or was conquered, it may have been actively destroyed in the process.

If they were conquered, this must have been a more advanced civilization doing it, and such advanced civilizations are not as stupid as to destroy dyson spheres, they steal them. So surely if thats a dyson sphere, there must be still alien life there, or robotic life, because surely they have mastered IA long ago and they use IA robots as slaves :) my two cents of funny speculation.

Think of the cost in time and materials. It probably would have taken that long to construct. What makes you think we are seeing the endpoint of the project rather than the beginning or the middle?

I don't think that. I think it'll turn out to be a natural phenomenon, and we'll have got our hopes up for nothing. Regardless, we should remember that the stuff we see in other star systems happened a long time ago.

Also such a civilization would be star faring, surely?

Not necessarily. Dyson spheres indicate a Type II civilization (using the Kardashev scale). Insterstellar travel indicates a Type III. That's several orders of magnitude greater. To put that in perspective, we could more easily make a Dyson sphere than they could a warp drive.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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10/16/2015 12:15:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 10:26:11 AM, Otokage wrote:

If they were conquered, this must have been a more advanced civilization doing it, and such advanced civilizations are not as stupid as to destroy dyson spheres, they steal them. So surely if thats a dyson sphere, there must be still alien life there, or robotic life, because surely they have mastered IA long ago and they use IA robots as slaves :) my two cents of funny speculation.

IA = Intelligent artificial?
chui
Posts: 507
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10/16/2015 12:30:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:15:41 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/16/2015 10:26:11 AM, Otokage wrote:

If they were conquered, this must have been a more advanced civilization doing it, and such advanced civilizations are not as stupid as to destroy dyson spheres, they steal them. So surely if thats a dyson sphere, there must be still alien life there, or robotic life, because surely they have mastered IA long ago and they use IA robots as slaves :) my two cents of funny speculation.

IA = Intelligent artificial?

IA= Intelligence artificielle. The're french!
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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10/16/2015 1:00:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:15:41 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/16/2015 10:26:11 AM, Otokage wrote:

If they were conquered, this must have been a more advanced civilization doing it, and such advanced civilizations are not as stupid as to destroy dyson spheres, they steal them. So surely if thats a dyson sphere, there must be still alien life there, or robotic life, because surely they have mastered IA long ago and they use IA robots as slaves :) my two cents of funny speculation.

IA = Intelligent artificial?

Wops, "Inteligencia artificial" in spanish. AI in english I guess :p
dee-em
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10/16/2015 1:17:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 1:00:47 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:15:41 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/16/2015 10:26:11 AM, Otokage wrote:

If they were conquered, this must have been a more advanced civilization doing it, and such advanced civilizations are not as stupid as to destroy dyson spheres, they steal them. So surely if thats a dyson sphere, there must be still alien life there, or robotic life, because surely they have mastered IA long ago and they use IA robots as slaves :) my two cents of funny speculation.

IA = Intelligent artificial?

Wops, "Inteligencia artificial" in spanish. AI in english I guess :p

No need to call me a wop over it. :-)
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/16/2015 8:57:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 10:26:11 AM, Otokage wrote:

If they were conquered, this must have been a more advanced civilization doing it, and such advanced civilizations are not as stupid as to destroy dyson spheres, they steal them. So surely if thats a dyson sphere, there must be still alien life there, or robotic life, because surely they have mastered IA long ago and they use IA robots as slaves :) my two cents of funny speculation.

They don't need to be more advanced, they just need to be opportunistic while the other guys are decadent. Besides, the baddies are more likely to have been residents of that star system. Destroying the Dyson sphere could have been alien 9/11.
chui
Posts: 507
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10/17/2015 7:04:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 2:50:18 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/15/2015 2:04:09 PM, dee-em wrote:


How would you make that calculation? The material could be as thin as sails (even a sail can block light) in the case of a Dyson swarm or it could be much thicker if it actually had to support an environment for life on its inner surface.

I know, lots of known unknowns and unknown unknowns. And I had to Google 'Dyson Swarm'. Cool.

Anyway, I'd figure we do something like base the structure's minimum distance from the star on the highest melting point we know, say Tantalum Hafnium Carbide (~3,990 degrees C), estimate the required area of coverage based on the light interference, account from a more efficient material with less molecular mass (Tantalum Hafnium Carbide is about 962.278), and calculate mass based upon variable average thicknesses of the structure. Certainly, it can't be trusted to have any true accuracy, but I think we can get a ballpark figure of the quantity of Jupiter-like planets would be required. But of course, this is all just speculation on my part.

This is assuming that the "builders" are capable of "harvesting" entire planets of that size.

It would assume an advanced civilization (far ahead of ours), yes.

If you want to estimate the material it makes sense to start with a simpler model eg 120 discs of photovoltaic cells each disc being 1x10^7 m in radius orbiting in a single circle , and 24 such circles altogether. This model is based on Dyson's own definition.
Total surface area=24 x 120 x pi x r^2=1x10^18 m^2. (3000 x SA of earth)
1m^2 of photovoltaic has a mass of 100 kg (overestimate but we are going for ball park here)
Total mass of Dyson swarm = 1x10^20 kg = mass of a small moon/large asteroid.

So it is possible with today's technology to do this but would take huge amounts of time and money. We could dismantle a nearby moon or catch asteroids for raw materials and turn it into large discs to harness more of the sun's energy. Adding small areas for life support would not change the total mass much but making the entire area habitable would. Maybe 100 more mass bringing the total to a moon the size of ours. Thus a population of trillions could be supported. Heat dissipation can be handled by placing the discs in gold-i-locks orbits.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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10/17/2015 6:53:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Btw it would be great if precisely a star system that is called whatthef*ck01 has such a wtf object like a dyson sphere.