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Social Acceptance of gays might hurt the gene

Wwskaf
Posts: 11
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11/12/2015 3:52:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
***I would like to start by pointing out that I am 100% FOR gay rights. My position on this topic is: If you are against gay marriages, then don't get "gay married" and let everyone else do whatever the heck they please. Therefore, my topic is in no way intended to question their rights.***

A recent research conducted by the Northshore Research Institute in the US found a clear link between the homosexuality trait and certain genomic regions (no particular gene has been found as of yet, but some scientist do think it exists). This suggest that being gay is not a choice but most certainly a genetic trait.

We can also argue that homosexuality has existed for thousands of years within the human specie (as well as other animal species http://www.yalescientific.org......). Yet acceptance of this social behavior is only recent and certainly not widespread.

Decades ago homosexual men and women could not declare their sexual orientation, let alone live it in the public eye for fear of being ridiculed, ostracized or even worse. Therefore, many felt pressured to lead a "normal" life by marrying into the opposite sex and procreating whilst leading a secret life on the side (this still goes on in many parts of our world today).

Being forced into this fake life and procreating also gave the homosexual trait an evolutionary advantage... the trait was being passed on from generation to generation at a much larger scale than it is in societies that have opened up to homosexuality (because they do not need to live a parallel "heterosexual life" and therefore do not procreate as much.

My hypothesis is that on the long run, social acceptance of homosexuality will hurt the trait, since the gene or genomic region will not be passed on leading to a decline in gay individuals. If this is true, the ext generations should see a decline in the gay gene in western, more accepting countries whereas less accepting countries should see no decline in the gene since homosexuals would keep living a double life and procreating as much as the heterosexual population.
Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
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11/13/2015 6:22:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 3:52:18 PM, Wwskaf wrote:
***I would like to start by pointing out that I am 100% FOR gay rights. My position on this topic is: If you are against gay marriages, then don't get "gay married" and let everyone else do whatever the heck they please. Therefore, my topic is in no way intended to question their rights.***

A recent research conducted by the Northshore Research Institute in the US found a clear link between the homosexuality trait and certain genomic regions (no particular gene has been found as of yet, but some scientist do think it exists). This suggest that being gay is not a choice but most certainly a genetic trait.........
My hypothesis is that on the long run, social acceptance of homosexuality will hurt the trait, since the gene or genomic region will not be passed on leading to a decline in gay individuals. If this is true, the ext generations should see a decline in the gay gene in western, more accepting countries whereas less accepting countries should see no decline in the gene since homosexuals would keep living a double life and procreating as much as the heterosexual population.

I would say you are wrong on this one. I would point to animal populations as proof that this would not be the case. Animal populations don't have social stigmas associated with homosexuality and thus they do not factor into their selective breeding mechanics. In sheep for example, the number of strictly homosexual males is right around 10%. This rate is more or less constant. This may be indicative of a recessive genetically contributing factor. Meaning that the rate of homosexuality will not change with social acceptance or rejection since heterosexual couples can carry recessive genes without "showing symptoms" (by no means do I think homosexuality is a genetic disease or disorder, however this seemed the easiest way to illustrate the point). This would result in a steady and predictable rate of homosexuality which is roughly constant regardless of social norms.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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11/13/2015 6:36:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 3:52:18 PM, Wwskaf wrote:
A recent research conducted by the Northshore Research Institute in the US found a clear link between the homosexuality trait and certain genomic regions (no particular gene has been found as of yet, but some scientist do think it exists). This suggest that being gay is not a choice but most certainly a genetic trait.

Thank you for the reference, Wwskaf. However, it's worthwhile to cite a link to the actual study wherever possible.

It can be found at [http://journals.cambridge.org...]:
Genome-wide scan demonstrates significant linkage for male sexual orientation

Background Findings from family and twin studies support a genetic contribution to the development of sexual orientation in men. However, previous studies have yielded conflicting evidence for linkage to chromosome Xq28.

Method We conducted a genome-wide linkage scan on 409 independent pairs of homosexual brothers (908 analyzed individuals in 384 families), by far the largest study of its kind to date.

Results We identified two regions of linkage: the pericentromeric region on chromosome 8 (maximum two-point LOD = 4.08, maximum multipoint LOD = 2.59), which overlaps with the second strongest region from a previous separate linkage scan of 155 brother pairs; and Xq28 (maximum two-point LOD = 2.99, maximum multipoint LOD = 2.76), which was also implicated in prior research.

Conclusions Results, especially in the context of past studies, support the existence of genes on pericentromeric chromosome 8 and chromosome Xq28 influencing development of male sexual orientation.


However, influence is not the same thing as determination of sexual orientation. There's plenty of evidence to show that such orientation can change due to environmental factors, and this is picked up in a report on the study by New Scientist:

Whatever the results, [principal author] Sanders stresses that complex traits such as sexual orientation depend on multiple factors, both environmental and genetic. Even if he has hit on individual genes, they will likely only have at most a small effect on their own, as has also been seen in studies of the genetic basis for intelligence, for example.
-- [https://www.newscientist.com...]

Regarding your contention, I'm not myself persuaded that greater gay acceptance will have a significant impact on the distribution of sexual preference among men.

Firstly, heredity is already not thought to be a major factor.

Secondly, one of the relevant genetic markers is on the X chromosome, so it's inherited from the mother. (The other is on Chromosome 8, inherited from both parents.)

Secondly, it's hard to see what effect gay marriage would have on reproduction -- that'll depend on parenting choices, and gay men arguably have more parenting choices than before.

Finally, greater gay acceptance may mean that socially, one will see more honesty about sexuality anyway. If so, the apparent proportion of men who have sex with men may rise, regardless. So you'd need a longitudinal, intergenerational genetic study correlated with sexual preference to work out what, if anything is happening demographically to sexual preference -- and social effects might vary that more than heredity regardless.
Wwskaf
Posts: 11
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11/14/2015 11:51:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 6:36:57 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 11/12/2015 3:52:18 PM, Wwskaf wrote:
A recent research conducted by the Northshore Research Institute in the US found a clear link between the homosexuality trait and certain genomic regions (no particular gene has been found as of yet, but some scientist do think it exists). This suggest that being gay is not a choice but most certainly a genetic trait.

Thank you for the reference, Wwskaf. However, it's worthwhile to cite a link to the actual study wherever possible.

It can be found at [http://journals.cambridge.org...]:
Genome-wide scan demonstrates significant linkage for male sexual orientation

Background Findings from family and twin studies support a genetic contribution to the development of sexual orientation in men. However, previous studies have yielded conflicting evidence for linkage to chromosome Xq28.

Method We conducted a genome-wide linkage scan on 409 independent pairs of homosexual brothers (908 analyzed individuals in 384 families), by far the largest study of its kind to date.

Results We identified two regions of linkage: the pericentromeric region on chromosome 8 (maximum two-point LOD = 4.08, maximum multipoint LOD = 2.59), which overlaps with the second strongest region from a previous separate linkage scan of 155 brother pairs; and Xq28 (maximum two-point LOD = 2.99, maximum multipoint LOD = 2.76), which was also implicated in prior research.

Conclusions Results, especially in the context of past studies, support the existence of genes on pericentromeric chromosome 8 and chromosome Xq28 influencing development of male sexual orientation.


However, influence is not the same thing as determination of sexual orientation. There's plenty of evidence to show that such orientation can change due to environmental factors, and this is picked up in a report on the study by New Scientist:

Whatever the results, [principal author] Sanders stresses that complex traits such as sexual orientation depend on multiple factors, both environmental and genetic. Even if he has hit on individual genes, they will likely only have at most a small effect on their own, as has also been seen in studies of the genetic basis for intelligence, for example.
-- [https://www.newscientist.com...]

Regarding your contention, I'm not myself persuaded that greater gay acceptance will have a significant impact on the distribution of sexual preference among men.

Firstly, heredity is already not thought to be a major factor.

Secondly, one of the relevant genetic markers is on the X chromosome, so it's inherited from the mother. (The other is on Chromosome 8, inherited from both parents.)

Secondly, it's hard to see what effect gay marriage would have on reproduction -- that'll depend on parenting choices, and gay men arguably have more parenting choices than before.

Finally, greater gay acceptance may mean that socially, one will see more honesty about sexuality anyway. If so, the apparent proportion of men who have sex with men may rise, regardless. So you'd need a longitudinal, intergenerational genetic study correlated with sexual preference to work out what, if anything is happening demographically to sexual preference -- and social effects might vary that more than heredity regardless.

Thanks for your reply. I have to adimt I got a bit lazy about that reference. Great analysis btw. Your arguments are worth being cinsidered.
Wwskaf
Posts: 11
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11/14/2015 11:52:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 6:36:57 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 11/12/2015 3:52:18 PM, Wwskaf wrote:
A recent research conducted by the Northshore Research Institute in the US found a clear link between the homosexuality trait and certain genomic regions (no particular gene has been found as of yet, but some scientist do think it exists). This suggest that being gay is not a choice but most certainly a genetic trait.

Thank you for the reference, Wwskaf. However, it's worthwhile to cite a link to the actual study wherever possible.

It can be found at [http://journals.cambridge.org...]:
Genome-wide scan demonstrates significant linkage for male sexual orientation

Background Findings from family and twin studies support a genetic contribution to the development of sexual orientation in men. However, previous studies have yielded conflicting evidence for linkage to chromosome Xq28.

Method We conducted a genome-wide linkage scan on 409 independent pairs of homosexual brothers (908 analyzed individuals in 384 families), by far the largest study of its kind to date.

Results We identified two regions of linkage: the pericentromeric region on chromosome 8 (maximum two-point LOD = 4.08, maximum multipoint LOD = 2.59), which overlaps with the second strongest region from a previous separate linkage scan of 155 brother pairs; and Xq28 (maximum two-point LOD = 2.99, maximum multipoint LOD = 2.76), which was also implicated in prior research.

Conclusions Results, especially in the context of past studies, support the existence of genes on pericentromeric chromosome 8 and chromosome Xq28 influencing development of male sexual orientation.


However, influence is not the same thing as determination of sexual orientation. There's plenty of evidence to show that such orientation can change due to environmental factors, and this is picked up in a report on the study by New Scientist:

Whatever the results, [principal author] Sanders stresses that complex traits such as sexual orientation depend on multiple factors, both environmental and genetic. Even if he has hit on individual genes, they will likely only have at most a small effect on their own, as has also been seen in studies of the genetic basis for intelligence, for example.
-- [https://www.newscientist.com...]

Regarding your contention, I'm not myself persuaded that greater gay acceptance will have a significant impact on the distribution of sexual preference among men.

Firstly, heredity is already not thought to be a major factor.

Secondly, one of the relevant genetic markers is on the X chromosome, so it's inherited from the mother. (The other is on Chromosome 8, inherited from both parents.)

Secondly, it's hard to see what effect gay marriage would have on reproduction -- that'll depend on parenting choices, and gay men arguably have more parenting choices than before.

Finally, greater gay acceptance may mean that socially, one will see more honesty about sexuality anyway. If so, the apparent proportion of men who have sex with men may rise, regardless. So you'd need a longitudinal, intergenerational genetic study correlated with sexual preference to work out what, if anything is happening demographically to sexual preference -- and social effects might vary that more than heredity regardless.

Thanks for your reply. I have to admit I got a bit lazy about that reference. Great analysis btw. Your arguments are worth being considered.