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We Are Immortal

TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.
dee-em
Posts: 6,474
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2/18/2016 11:20:35 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

Is the entirety of your being just energy? If not, and obviously that is the case, then your unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain) can be destroyed and you will die. The atoms and some molecules may survive but they will never recombine to create 'you' again. So you will be dead.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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2/18/2016 11:23:40 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

10/10
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/18/2016 11:34:11 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 11:20:35 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

Is the entirety of your being just energy? If not, and obviously that is the case, then your unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain) can be destroyed and you will die. The atoms and some molecules may survive but they will never recombine to create 'you' again. So you will be dead.

But then, in an infinite period of time that has to happen, right? That 'unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain)' will happen in an infinite period of time. No?
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/18/2016 11:48:16 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 11:34:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/18/2016 11:20:35 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

Is the entirety of your being just energy? If not, and obviously that is the case, then your unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain) can be destroyed and you will die. The atoms and some molecules may survive but they will never recombine to create 'you' again. So you will be dead.

But then, in an infinite period of time that has to happen, right? That 'unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain)' will happen in an infinite period of time. No?

EDIT - 2 things I would like to add -

1. I am not all energy. But you know matter - energy can be converted into one - another?

2. unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs changes every second in our body.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/18/2016 11:50:08 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 11:48:16 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/18/2016 11:34:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/18/2016 11:20:35 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

Is the entirety of your being just energy? If not, and obviously that is the case, then your unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain) can be destroyed and you will die. The atoms and some molecules may survive but they will never recombine to create 'you' again. So you will be dead.

But then, in an infinite period of time that has to happen, right? That 'unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain)' will happen in an infinite period of time. No?

EDIT - 2 things I would like to add -

1. I am not all energy. But you know matter - energy can be converted into one - another?

2. unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs changes every second in our body.

and I am alive not dead by changing configuratation.
dee-em
Posts: 6,474
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2/18/2016 12:34:13 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 11:34:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/18/2016 11:20:35 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

Is the entirety of your being just energy? If not, and obviously that is the case, then your unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain) can be destroyed and you will die. The atoms and some molecules may survive but they will never recombine to create 'you' again. So you will be dead.

But then, in an infinite period of time that has to happen, right? That 'unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain)' will happen in an infinite period of time. No?

No. Even if time is infinite (which we don't know for sure) the phase of the universe capable of supporting our kind of life is finite in duration. Once the hydrogen in the universe is used up in the far distant future the universe will go cold(er) and dark. Entropy is irreversible. Without energy to sustain life that will be the end for living beings even if the universe itself continues.

Another problem. The configuration of atoms that now comprises 'you' changes on an instant by instant basis. You are not exactly the same from moment to moment as the brain rewires itself to accomodate memory and experience. You are definitely not the same person you were ten years ago or when you were 5 years old. Therefore which 'you' are you expecting to appear in the future if time were infinite and how would it come about? It can't occur randomly. Life doesn't work like that.

Also, the universe is in a runaway expansion. We don't know the ultimate fate of the universe when the expansion becomes so rapid that it will affect galaxies and solar systems and then perhaps even atoms themselves. It is conceivable that space-time will tear all matter apart as the expansion accelerates beyond a certain point.

Your hope of re-incarnation seems to be a forlorn one. Sorry.
dee-em
Posts: 6,474
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2/18/2016 12:37:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 11:48:16 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/18/2016 11:34:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/18/2016 11:20:35 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

Is the entirety of your being just energy? If not, and obviously that is the case, then your unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain) can be destroyed and you will die. The atoms and some molecules may survive but they will never recombine to create 'you' again. So you will be dead.

But then, in an infinite period of time that has to happen, right? That 'unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain)' will happen in an infinite period of time. No?

EDIT - 2 things I would like to add -

1. I am not all energy. But you know matter - energy can be converted into one - another?

Certainly, but that doesn't change anything. I assumed you were equivalencing the two.

2. unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs changes every second in our body.

See my previous answer. It spoils your party I think.
dee-em
Posts: 6,474
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2/18/2016 12:54:50 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 11:50:08 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/18/2016 11:48:16 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/18/2016 11:34:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/18/2016 11:20:35 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

Is the entirety of your being just energy? If not, and obviously that is the case, then your unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain) can be destroyed and you will die. The atoms and some molecules may survive but they will never recombine to create 'you' again. So you will be dead.

But then, in an infinite period of time that has to happen, right? That 'unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs (particularly the brain)' will happen in an infinite period of time. No?

EDIT - 2 things I would like to add -

1. I am not all energy. But you know matter - energy can be converted into one - another?

2. unique configuration of atoms and molecules and cells and organs changes every second in our body.

and I am alive not dead by changing configuratation.

Sure. What point are you trying to make? You identify with each configuration because the day-to-day the changes are fairly small. However, if you could take yourself back to a newly born baby, are you and that baby really the same individual? By DNA yes, but by everything else you are a lifetime apart. It's why cloning of humans is pointless unless you also have the capability to transfer the contents of the brain into the clone. The clone may have the same DNA but, without mind transfer, it is not you.

I suspect you may be committing the fallacy of composition here. Because a particular configuration of atoms has this property called life, you seem to think you can apply this property to the atoms themselves. That is, if you throw them together in any old configuration then it will also have life. That's like saying that an assembled aeroplane can fly so if you take the individual parts and throw them in the air they will also fly. It's a fallacy to believe that what is true of the whole must also apply to the parts.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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2/18/2016 6:51:53 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

Yea, we die. Simply calling all energy "you" or that "you are all energy" is not what anyone would reasonably call "you" a person.

Buttressing what has been posted elsewhere in the thread; In a universe of multiverse? In a universe, no. We are not going to have the same conditions at any point PAST where we are regardless of how long the universe might exist.
Leugen9001
Posts: 495
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2/19/2016 12:13:49 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

While energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can change and become chaotic. Death is simply a system failing to maintain order.
:) nac
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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2/19/2016 4:38:43 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Death is merely ceasing of the activity of organs -- it is not the entire destruction of the matter in the body.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,846
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2/19/2016 5:19:48 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 10:21:40 AM, TREssspa wrote:
If energy can neither be created nor be destroyed - how can we ever die?

http://www.debate.org...
Unfortunately, religion forum could Not provide me with an answer. Now its over to you guys.

Some theories say that matter can be destroyed if it collides with antimatter, which in turn creates energy http://www.iop.org...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

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Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/20/2016 4:23:56 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:38:43 PM, tejretics wrote:
Death is merely ceasing of the activity of organs -- it is not the entire destruction of the matter in the body.

And you actually believe that all the organs stop working simultaneously? But how?
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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2/20/2016 4:24:57 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/20/2016 4:23:56 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:38:43 PM, tejretics wrote:
Death is merely ceasing of the activity of organs -- it is not the entire destruction of the matter in the body.

And you actually believe that all the organs stop working simultaneously? But how?

The gradual increase of entropy causes organs to shut down due to energy redistribution. Brain activity ceases, and that causes the ceasing of the activity of other organs.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/20/2016 4:37:09 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/20/2016 4:24:57 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:23:56 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:38:43 PM, tejretics wrote:
Death is merely ceasing of the activity of organs -- it is not the entire destruction of the matter in the body.

And you actually believe that all the organs stop working simultaneously? But how?

The gradual increase of entropy causes organs to shut down due to energy redistribution. Brain activity ceases, and that causes the ceasing of the activity of other organs.

Are not some organs donable after Death?
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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2/20/2016 4:40:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/20/2016 4:37:09 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:24:57 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:23:56 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:38:43 PM, tejretics wrote:
Death is merely ceasing of the activity of organs -- it is not the entire destruction of the matter in the body.

And you actually believe that all the organs stop working simultaneously? But how?

The gradual increase of entropy causes organs to shut down due to energy redistribution. Brain activity ceases, and that causes the ceasing of the activity of other organs.

Are not some organs donable after Death?

They don't necessarily stop working simultaneously.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/20/2016 5:18:59 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/20/2016 4:40:25 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:37:09 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:24:57 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:23:56 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:38:43 PM, tejretics wrote:
Death is merely ceasing of the activity of organs -- it is not the entire destruction of the matter in the body.

And you actually believe that all the organs stop working simultaneously? But how?

The gradual increase of entropy causes organs to shut down due to energy redistribution. Brain activity ceases, and that causes the ceasing of the activity of other organs.

Are not some organs donable after Death?

They don't necessarily stop working simultaneously.

Wait.. so you do accept that there is soul.
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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2/20/2016 5:30:27 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/20/2016 5:18:59 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:40:25 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:37:09 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:24:57 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:23:56 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:38:43 PM, tejretics wrote:
Death is merely ceasing of the activity of organs -- it is not the entire destruction of the matter in the body.

And you actually believe that all the organs stop working simultaneously? But how?

The gradual increase of entropy causes organs to shut down due to energy redistribution. Brain activity ceases, and that causes the ceasing of the activity of other organs.

Are not some organs donable after Death?

They don't necessarily stop working simultaneously.

Wait.. so you do accept that there is soul.

A soul isn't physical. The organs needn't be sustained by a soul. Biology shows that the organs slowly shut down at different rates depending on the organ that first shut down -- that's why people can be "brain dead" without fully dying.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/21/2016 2:27:53 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/20/2016 5:30:27 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/20/2016 5:18:59 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:40:25 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:37:09 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:24:57 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/20/2016 4:23:56 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:38:43 PM, tejretics wrote:
Death is merely ceasing of the activity of organs -- it is not the entire destruction of the matter in the body.

And you actually believe that all the organs stop working simultaneously? But how?

The gradual increase of entropy causes organs to shut down due to energy redistribution. Brain activity ceases, and that causes the ceasing of the activity of other organs.

Are not some organs donable after Death?

They don't necessarily stop working simultaneously.

Wait.. so you do accept that there is soul.

A soul isn't physical. The organs needn't be sustained by a soul. Biology shows that the organs slowly shut down at different rates depending on the organ that first shut down -- that's why people can be "brain dead" without fully dying.

Are not some organs donable after Death?