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Time Paradoxes are Pseudoscience

Vox_Veritas
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2/26/2016 10:15:59 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Everything requires a cause. However, not everything requires for its cause to remain intact after the fact. The previous reality which you'd be physically erasing would still exist so far as being the cause of the new reality. Hence, time paradoxes are false.
Objections, anyone?
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Akhenaten
Posts: 854
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2/26/2016 11:22:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 10:15:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Everything requires a cause. However, not everything requires for its cause to remain intact after the fact. The previous reality which you'd be physically erasing would still exist so far as being the cause of the new reality. Hence, time paradoxes are false.
Objections, anyone?

I object, on the grounds that what you have written doesn't make any sense! lol
Vox_Veritas
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2/26/2016 11:30:29 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 11:22:45 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 2/26/2016 10:15:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Everything requires a cause. However, not everything requires for its cause to remain intact after the fact. The previous reality which you'd be physically erasing would still exist so far as being the cause of the new reality. Hence, time paradoxes are false.
Objections, anyone?

I object, on the grounds that what you have written doesn't make any sense! lol

Okay, so whenever you change time, you create a new reality and the old reality is "erased". The old reality does not have to exist anymore to have been the cause of the new reality.
Time Paradox advocates say that if you traveled back in time, you'd change history so you wouldn't have traveled back in time to begin with (or at least a different you would've done the time travel). This does, however, assume that the reality you came from has to remain intact. In truth it doesn't matter whether the original timeline is completely erased; as long as it at some point resulted in you traveling through time then it's fulfilled all of its "requirements".
If you traveled back to 5 years before the birth of your father/mother then killing your grandfather would not prevent you from coming into existence.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
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Akhenaten
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2/27/2016 12:58:11 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 11:30:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

Time Paradox advocates say that if you traveled back in time, you'd change history so you wouldn't have traveled back in time to begin with (or at least a different you would've done the time travel). This does, however, assume that the reality you came from has to remain intact. In truth it doesn't matter whether the original timeline is completely erased; as long as it at some point resulted in you traveling through time then it's fulfilled all of its "requirements".
If you traveled back to 5 years before the birth of your father/mother then killing your grandfather would not prevent you from coming into existence.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but time isn't a negotiable quantity. You can't manipulate time, either forwards or backwards. It's illogical and only happens in science fiction books and movies. Time is not a spacial vector. This is a common mistake that many famous physicists have made.
Vox_Veritas
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2/27/2016 1:53:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 12:58:11 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 2/26/2016 11:30:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

Time Paradox advocates say that if you traveled back in time, you'd change history so you wouldn't have traveled back in time to begin with (or at least a different you would've done the time travel). This does, however, assume that the reality you came from has to remain intact. In truth it doesn't matter whether the original timeline is completely erased; as long as it at some point resulted in you traveling through time then it's fulfilled all of its "requirements".
If you traveled back to 5 years before the birth of your father/mother then killing your grandfather would not prevent you from coming into existence.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but time isn't a negotiable quantity. You can't manipulate time, either forwards or backwards. It's illogical and only happens in science fiction books and movies. Time is not a spacial vector. This is a common mistake that many famous physicists have made.

Correct. Time is cause and effect and how we perceive it. What I'm referring to is the theoretical situation where someone was able to reverse all actions in the Universe except for their own existence in the re-done reality as carried over from the original.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Stronn
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2/27/2016 2:08:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
You have stated the Novikov self-consistency principle.

There exist valid solutions of special relativity equations that allow for limited time travel through wormholes. Whether they exist in reality or are simply a quirk of the mathematics is as yet unknown.
Subutai
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2/27/2016 3:54:53 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 10:15:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Everything requires a cause. However, not everything requires for its cause to remain intact after the fact. The previous reality which you'd be physically erasing would still exist so far as being the cause of the new reality. Hence, time paradoxes are false.
Objections, anyone?

This doesn't make a lot of sense. Consider the grandfather paradox. Suppose I invent a time machine, go back in time, and kill my grandfather when he was a child. The previous reality of my grandfather being alive, fathering my father, who then fathers me would indeed be the cause of the new reality where my grandfather is dead before he became an adult, but that doesn't solve the question of why I still exist in this new reality. With reality altered, if I go back to the present day, I (should) still be alive, albeit my grandfather died before he fathered my father, which means that my existence would still be a paradox.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Vox_Veritas
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2/27/2016 4:09:09 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 3:54:53 AM, Subutai wrote:
At 2/26/2016 10:15:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Everything requires a cause. However, not everything requires for its cause to remain intact after the fact. The previous reality which you'd be physically erasing would still exist so far as being the cause of the new reality. Hence, time paradoxes are false.
Objections, anyone?

This doesn't make a lot of sense. Consider the grandfather paradox. Suppose I invent a time machine, go back in time, and kill my grandfather when he was a child. The previous reality of my grandfather being alive, fathering my father, who then fathers me would indeed be the cause of the new reality where my grandfather is dead before he became an adult, but that doesn't solve the question of why I still exist in this new reality. With reality altered, if I go back to the present day, I (should) still be alive, albeit my grandfather died before he fathered my father, which means that my existence would still be a paradox.

Your original grandfather would've been "erased" and replaced by this grandfather of yours who died. But erased is not the same as "never existed". He would've still existed despite having been erased and his erasure wouldn't have undone the eventual consequence of his procreation (your existence), seeing as how you by the act of time traveling were not erased.
I know this isn't a perfect example but it's like a chalkboard. You can write one thing and then erase it and write something else in its place. The original writing would no longer exist but it cannot be said that it never existed.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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triangle.128k
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2/27/2016 4:29:27 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
The idea behind this is that there's a universe for every possibility and that changing history leads you to parallel universes.

I'm quite skeptical of this though, I doubt time travel into the past is possible. Multiple universes probably exist in my opinion, but not parallel universes.

I would call it a pseudo-science though, topics like this are just speculation since there's no evidence of what multiple universes look like, whether time is a dimension, etc.
Vox_Veritas
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2/27/2016 4:33:12 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 4:29:27 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The idea behind this is that there's a universe for every possibility and that changing history leads you to parallel universes.

That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that in time traveling you'd destroy one Universe and create another one, with you being the variable that makes this new Universe different from the old one.

I'm quite skeptical of this though, I doubt time travel into the past is possible. Multiple universes probably exist in my opinion, but not parallel universes.

What I'm saying in this thread does of course assume that time travel is possible. I do acknowledge this.

I would call it a pseudo-science though, topics like this are just speculation since there's no evidence of what multiple universes look like, whether time is a dimension, etc.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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2/27/2016 5:11:41 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
The following sculpture was made in Ancient Egypt prior to 2300 BC:
https://tse2.mm.bing.net...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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2/27/2016 5:12:07 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 5:11:41 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The following sculpture was made in Ancient Egypt prior to 2300 BC:
https://tse2.mm.bing.net...

Dang it. Wrong thread.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Stronn
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2/27/2016 6:22:46 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 5:11:41 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The following sculpture was made in Ancient Egypt prior to 2300 BC:
https://tse2.mm.bing.net...

Clearly that was sent back in time to 2300 BC from 800 BC.
Akhenaten
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2/27/2016 4:07:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 1:53:24 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:


Correct. Time is cause and effect and how we perceive it. What I'm referring to is the theoretical situation where someone was able to reverse all actions in the Universe except for their own existence in the re-done reality as carried over from the original.

I believe that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You are communicating to a person that has outsmarted - Einstein, Hawking, Heaviside, Maxwell and Newton.
Vox_Veritas
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2/27/2016 4:20:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 4:07:04 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 2/27/2016 1:53:24 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:


Correct. Time is cause and effect and how we perceive it. What I'm referring to is the theoretical situation where someone was able to reverse all actions in the Universe except for their own existence in the re-done reality as carried over from the original.

I believe that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You are communicating to a person that has outsmarted - Einstein, Hawking, Heaviside, Maxwell and Newton.

Oh my. What a genius you are.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Akhenaten
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2/28/2016 12:25:06 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 4:20:37 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

I believe that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You are communicating to a person that has outsmarted - Einstein, Hawking, Heaviside, Maxwell and Newton.

Oh my. What a genius you are.

Hi there, baldy locks. Is that a photo of you? lol
Vox_Veritas
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2/28/2016 12:43:09 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/28/2016 12:25:06 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 2/27/2016 4:20:37 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

I believe that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You are communicating to a person that has outsmarted - Einstein, Hawking, Heaviside, Maxwell and Newton.

Oh my. What a genius you are.

Hi there, baldy locks. Is that a photo of you? lol

No. I'm much fatter than that.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
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DanneJeRusse
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2/28/2016 3:01:55 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 12:58:11 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 2/26/2016 11:30:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

Time Paradox advocates say that if you traveled back in time, you'd change history so you wouldn't have traveled back in time to begin with (or at least a different you would've done the time travel). This does, however, assume that the reality you came from has to remain intact. In truth it doesn't matter whether the original timeline is completely erased; as long as it at some point resulted in you traveling through time then it's fulfilled all of its "requirements".
If you traveled back to 5 years before the birth of your father/mother then killing your grandfather would not prevent you from coming into existence.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but time isn't a negotiable quantity. You can't manipulate time, either forwards or backwards. It's illogical and only happens in science fiction books and movies. Time is not a spacial vector. This is a common mistake that many famous physicists have made.

Another common mistake made my cranks and crackpots who believer they are geniuses is how to spell "Spatial". And, of course, spatial vectors have little to do with time, if anything, and are all about rigid body dynamics, genius.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Subutai
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2/28/2016 3:47:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/27/2016 4:09:09 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 2/27/2016 3:54:53 AM, Subutai wrote:
At 2/26/2016 10:15:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Everything requires a cause. However, not everything requires for its cause to remain intact after the fact. The previous reality which you'd be physically erasing would still exist so far as being the cause of the new reality. Hence, time paradoxes are false.
Objections, anyone?

This doesn't make a lot of sense. Consider the grandfather paradox. Suppose I invent a time machine, go back in time, and kill my grandfather when he was a child. The previous reality of my grandfather being alive, fathering my father, who then fathers me would indeed be the cause of the new reality where my grandfather is dead before he became an adult, but that doesn't solve the question of why I still exist in this new reality. With reality altered, if I go back to the present day, I (should) still be alive, albeit my grandfather died before he fathered my father, which means that my existence would still be a paradox.

Your original grandfather would've been "erased" and replaced by this grandfather of yours who died. But erased is not the same as "never existed". He would've still existed despite having been erased and his erasure wouldn't have undone the eventual consequence of his procreation (your existence), seeing as how you by the act of time traveling were not erased.
I know this isn't a perfect example but it's like a chalkboard. You can write one thing and then erase it and write something else in its place. The original writing would no longer exist but it cannot be said that it never existed.

But you're considering this from the viewpoint of the time before you went back in time to kill your grandfather. When you go back to your grandfather's time, you fundamentally alter reality by killing your grandfather. The world would have evolved without your grandfather, and, by extension, you. This reality extends to the time you go back to the present day, where you shouldn't exist.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Vox_Veritas
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2/28/2016 7:38:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/28/2016 3:47:54 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 2/27/2016 4:09:09 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 2/27/2016 3:54:53 AM, Subutai wrote:
At 2/26/2016 10:15:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Everything requires a cause. However, not everything requires for its cause to remain intact after the fact. The previous reality which you'd be physically erasing would still exist so far as being the cause of the new reality. Hence, time paradoxes are false.
Objections, anyone?

This doesn't make a lot of sense. Consider the grandfather paradox. Suppose I invent a time machine, go back in time, and kill my grandfather when he was a child. The previous reality of my grandfather being alive, fathering my father, who then fathers me would indeed be the cause of the new reality where my grandfather is dead before he became an adult, but that doesn't solve the question of why I still exist in this new reality. With reality altered, if I go back to the present day, I (should) still be alive, albeit my grandfather died before he fathered my father, which means that my existence would still be a paradox.

Your original grandfather would've been "erased" and replaced by this grandfather of yours who died. But erased is not the same as "never existed". He would've still existed despite having been erased and his erasure wouldn't have undone the eventual consequence of his procreation (your existence), seeing as how you by the act of time traveling were not erased.
I know this isn't a perfect example but it's like a chalkboard. You can write one thing and then erase it and write something else in its place. The original writing would no longer exist but it cannot be said that it never existed.

But you're considering this from the viewpoint of the time before you went back in time to kill your grandfather. When you go back to your grandfather's time, you fundamentally alter reality by killing your grandfather. The world would have evolved without your grandfather, and, by extension, you. This reality extends to the time you go back to the present day, where you shouldn't exist.

You assume any changes to the timeline that occur after you arrive have the ability to affect the original act of you time traveling. After you arrive it doesn't matter what you do. You could go back and kill the first two humans before they could procreate and that wouldn't erase you from existence.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Iredia
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2/28/2016 8:54:35 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
I concur. And I find it annoying that people take the fabulous concept of time travel seriously as if it's a real possibility, which it isn't.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Akhenaten
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2/28/2016 10:48:35 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/28/2016 3:01:55 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Sorry to be a party pooper, but time isn't a negotiable quantity. You can't manipulate time, either forwards or backwards. It's illogical and only happens in science fiction books and movies. Time is not a spacial vector. This is a common mistake that many famous physicists have made.

Another common mistake made my cranks and crackpots who believer they are geniuses is how to spell "Spatial". And, of course, spatial vectors have little to do with time, if anything, and are all about rigid body dynamics, genius.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I am not the one who uses time as a spatial vector. Ask Einstein, Feynman and Hawking. They do it all the time. lol
DanneJeRusse
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2/28/2016 11:26:22 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/28/2016 10:48:35 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 2/28/2016 3:01:55 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Sorry to be a party pooper, but time isn't a negotiable quantity. You can't manipulate time, either forwards or backwards. It's illogical and only happens in science fiction books and movies. Time is not a spacial vector. This is a common mistake that many famous physicists have made.

Another common mistake made my cranks and crackpots who believer they are geniuses is how to spell "Spatial". And, of course, spatial vectors have little to do with time, if anything, and are all about rigid body dynamics, genius.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I am not the one who uses time as a spatial vector. Ask Einstein, Feynman and Hawking. They do it all the time. lol

No, they don't.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Akhenaten
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2/29/2016 3:38:02 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/28/2016 11:26:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Another common mistake made my cranks and crackpots who believer they are geniuses is how to spell "Spatial". And, of course, spatial vectors have little to do with time, if anything, and are all about rigid body dynamics, genius.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I am not the one who uses time as a spatial vector. Ask Einstein, Feynman and Hawking. They do it all the time. lol

No, they don't.

Oh, yes they did!

http://phys.org...
DanneJeRusse
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2/29/2016 4:12:32 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/29/2016 3:38:02 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 2/28/2016 11:26:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Another common mistake made my cranks and crackpots who believer they are geniuses is how to spell "Spatial". And, of course, spatial vectors have little to do with time, if anything, and are all about rigid body dynamics, genius.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I am not the one who uses time as a spatial vector. Ask Einstein, Feynman and Hawking. They do it all the time. lol

No, they don't.

Oh, yes they did!

http://phys.org...

LOL. Nowhere in that paper does the term spatial vector appear, you are dismissed.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Akhenaten
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2/29/2016 4:34:48 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/29/2016 4:12:32 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:


Another common mistake made my cranks and crackpots who believer they are geniuses is how to spell "Spatial". And, of course, spatial vectors have little to do with time, if anything, and are all about rigid body dynamics, genius.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I am not the one who uses time as a spatial vector. Ask Einstein, Feynman and Hawking. They do it all the time. lol

No, they don't.

Oh, yes they did!

http://phys.org...

LOL. Nowhere in that paper does the term spatial vector appear, you are dismissed.

LOLOLOL - 4 dimensional space is no longer accepted. They only accept 3 D space now. Thus, you can't have 4 D space without a time vector. (extra dimension). You are now dismissed from class 'Little Johnny'. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Akhenaten
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2/29/2016 4:39:07 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
"Inertial mass and gravitational mass have the same origin: diminished energy density of a quantum vacuum. This model gives exact calculations for the Mercury perihelion precession as calculations of the general theory of relativity"

Read more at: http://phys.org...

Trying reading a little before blowing off your fog horn!

Note - "Quantum vacuum" In my theory this would read "no spin ethon"
DanneJeRusse
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2/29/2016 5:25:21 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/29/2016 4:39:07 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
"Inertial mass and gravitational mass have the same origin: diminished energy density of a quantum vacuum. This model gives exact calculations for the Mercury perihelion precession as calculations of the general theory of relativity"

Read more at: http://phys.org...

Trying reading a little before blowing off your fog horn!

Note - "Quantum vacuum" In my theory this would read "no spin ethon"

So, you've been shown that don't understand the term you used, which was not used by the folksy you claimed, nor does it appear anywhere in the paper you cited.

Run along Mr, Cranky.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Akhenaten
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2/29/2016 9:05:28 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/29/2016 5:25:21 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

So, you've been shown that don't understand the term you used, which was not used by the folksy you claimed, nor does it appear anywhere in the paper you cited.

Run along Mr, Cranky.

Try taking up tiddlywinks. Physics is beyond your meagre means. lol
tvellalott
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2/29/2016 10:27:38 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 10:15:59 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Everything requires a cause. However, not everything requires for its cause to remain intact after the fact. The previous reality which you'd be physically erasing would still exist so far as being the cause of the new reality. Hence, time paradoxes are false.
Objections, anyone?

How did Marty McFly nearly erase himself then?
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