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Who"s really pushing "bad science"?

LittleBallofHATE
Posts: 284
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3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...
I would agree with you, but then we'd BOTH be wrong.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,240
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3/16/2016 11:55:40 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...

"Our Motto: Proclaiming the truth and authority of the Bible
Our Vision: To see the Lord Jesus Christ honoured as Creator and Saviour of the world
Our Mission: To support the effective proclamation of the Gospel by providing credible answers that affirm the reliability of the Bible, in particular its Genesis history"

"No science" is claiming "Bad science". Interesting.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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3/16/2016 3:02:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...

I stopped reading right here:

"This NOMA distinction really teaches that religion is just in one"s head, which seems to dull the senses of many Christians more than an overt declaration that Christianity is false. So this is even more dangerous.

Christians should not fall for this. Christ is the Lord of the universe, and the Bible is accurate on everything it touches, not just faith and morality, but history, science and geography also. So Christians should not give up any part of the "real world" to those with a materialistic agenda. "

Clearly, these folks have an agenda of distortion, dishonesty and deceit.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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3/16/2016 4:22:46 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...

A 16 year old post full of hypocrisy, self-contradiction, and misunderstanding. Lovely.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/16/2016 6:01:52 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth.
Actually, it attacks a paper by Lawrence S. Lerner, Professor Emeritus in the College of Natural Sciences and Mathematics at California State University.[http://edex.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com...] Written sixteen years ago for the Thomas B. Fordham Foundation -- which describes itself as a private foundation that supports research, publications, and action projects in elementary/secondary education reform at the national level and in the Dayton area, the paper itself offers a state-by-state evaluation of the treatment of evolution in science standards, but its foreword clearly focuses on evolution as a benchmark, and holds that nineteen states do a weak-to-reprehensible job of handling evolution in their science standards.

So this is an attack on a privately-funded paper by a single scientist reviewing science in the US education system. Moreover, the attacks invoke numerous creationist objections appearing on ID sites, and as on those sites, most objections are made by bare assertion. Finally, the author is not a qualified life scientist but a Physical Chemist specialising in spectroscopy. [http://creation.com...] And further, he is not a product of the US education system, and has no role in the governance of US education -- he's a New Zealander presently living Australia.

So this is not a carefully-researched review of the life sciences by an author qualified to do so, nor even expert commentary on the teaching of science in the US curriculum, but a polemic opinion-piece by an author unqualified in biology and having no professional involvement in the US education system, attacking a single article, and recycling existing creationist arguments which he invokes as bare assertions.

Whether you support his views or not, LBoH, I do not believe you can argue that they 'conclusively prove' anything about the life-sciences or even the teaching of science in the US education system. The most one could claim is that a physical chemist who isn't a biologist, doesn't live in the US and has no involvement in the US education system, believes there's an atheist conspiracy in US biology education. :p
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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3/16/2016 7:16:09 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...

Most creationists websites, including yours, state up front that it doesn't matter what the evidence actually shows, that they will still believe in the bible, and never be convinced of evolution.

Reaching a conclusion based on faith, rather than evidence, and asserting that they will never be convinced otherwise, no matter how firm, or strong the evidence actually is, means that this website is by definition not science.

Moreover, most arguments they make against evolution are based on misrepresentation of evidence or interpretation, omission of evidence and studies that show their misrepresentation isn't true, or otherwise omit the fact that most of their evidence appears to be limited in scope and nature meaning that their conclusion that all of evolution is wrong is a wild extrapolation of processes that occur only in specific circumstances, or evidence that is only applicable to specific scenarios applies to all life at all times, which it is invariably not.

The same is true of the evidence they believe supports their position; but with the added problem is that for their position to be right there has to be a thousand individual processes all operating across the board without a single exception, and in many cases unknown weird processes for which there is no evidence and in many cases actually need to defy the laws of physics, probability and common sense to explain the evidence they reject on the grounds of outlier measurement and minor exceptions that are to be expected in a highly complex system.

With this, there is no concordant narrative that ties them all together to explain the evidence, just a series of assertions that science is wrong and they are right, with no comprehensive theory, theories that are supported by any evidence in a way that explain what we see. Indeed, in most cases they rely on implying that they are right without any explanation of how the reasons theyre right could apply to everything in the way they need it to.

This is neglecting the outright lies, distortions, misrepresentation and intellectually dishonest assertions that are made that are so far outside any reasonable interpretation of reality that it could well be viewed as mental illness.

Science doesn't suffer from any of these problems, and given that you can do the above for any position you want, regardless of how wrong it actually is, and you shouldn't need to do any of it if you're position is correct, the only logical conclusion you should draw is that creationists perpetuate bad science because they don't care what the facts are, they just oppose evolution not on the evidence but in faith, and use whatever pseudoscientific justifications to make them feel better about it; justifications that you can always make no matter how wrong you are.
one-mind
Posts: 43
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3/16/2016 10:12:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com... : :

No one is pushing bad science. All the inhabitants on earth are lying to each other so if you believe the lies of one scientist versus another scientist, you will remain confused until you die in the world that you perceive as a real world.
Stronn
Posts: 318
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3/16/2016 10:29:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:16:09 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...

Most creationists websites, including yours, state up front that it doesn't matter what the evidence actually shows, that they will still believe in the bible, and never be convinced of evolution.

Reaching a conclusion based on faith, rather than evidence, and asserting that they will never be convinced otherwise, no matter how firm, or strong the evidence actually is, means that this website is by definition not science.

Moreover, most arguments they make against evolution are based on misrepresentation of evidence or interpretation, omission of evidence and studies that show their misrepresentation isn't true, or otherwise omit the fact that most of their evidence appears to be limited in scope and nature meaning that their conclusion that all of evolution is wrong is a wild extrapolation of processes that occur only in specific circumstances, or evidence that is only applicable to specific scenarios applies to all life at all times, which it is invariably not.

The same is true of the evidence they believe supports their position; but with the added problem is that for their position to be right there has to be a thousand individual processes all operating across the board without a single exception, and in many cases unknown weird processes for which there is no evidence and in many cases actually need to defy the laws of physics, probability and common sense to explain the evidence they reject on the grounds of outlier measurement and minor exceptions that are to be expected in a highly complex system.

With this, there is no concordant narrative that ties them all together to explain the evidence, just a series of assertions that science is wrong and they are right, with no comprehensive theory, theories that are supported by any evidence in a way that explain what we see. Indeed, in most cases they rely on implying that they are right without any explanation of how the reasons theyre right could apply to everything in the way they need it to.

This is neglecting the outright lies, distortions, misrepresentation and intellectually dishonest assertions that are made that are so far outside any reasonable interpretation of reality that it could well be viewed as mental illness.

Science doesn't suffer from any of these problems, and given that you can do the above for any position you want, regardless of how wrong it actually is, and you shouldn't need to do any of it if you're position is correct, the only logical conclusion you should draw is that creationists perpetuate bad science because they don't care what the facts are, they just oppose evolution not on the evidence but in faith, and use whatever pseudoscientific justifications to make them feel better about it; justifications that you can always make no matter how wrong you are.

+1
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/18/2016 2:14:19 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...

I don't think you understand the science community very well. There is huge upside to the individual scientist that can disprove significant theories. Disproving evolution would be like winning the lottery.

No scientist would purposefully collude to perpetuate a lie for no benefit rather than show the world truth and get everything.

It is truly a sad state of affairs for creationism when this is what they have to resort to to discredit evolutionists scientists.
LittleBallofHATE
Posts: 284
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3/18/2016 4:56:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 2:14:19 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...

I don't think you understand the science community very well. There is huge upside to the individual scientist that can disprove significant theories. Disproving evolution would be like winning the lottery.

No scientist would purposefully collude to perpetuate a lie for no benefit rather than show the world truth and get everything.

It is truly a sad state of affairs for creationism when this is what they have to resort to to discredit evolutionists scientists.

If you don't believe that there are many, in the scientific community, who would lie or otherwise distort the truth to further the lie of evolution, then you don't understand human nature. Take a look at where they get their funding from. If they don't provide the results that their backers are looking for, they don't get paid. It's as simple as that.

There is also the fact that dissenters are harshly treated by the scientific community. The whole thing is a giant scam. Seriously. What do you think would happen to a scientist who disagreed with the theory of evolution? I could provid some examples for you.
I would agree with you, but then we'd BOTH be wrong.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/18/2016 7:30:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 4:56:49 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 3/18/2016 2:14:19 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...

I don't think you understand the science community very well. There is huge upside to the individual scientist that can disprove significant theories. Disproving evolution would be like winning the lottery.

No scientist would purposefully collude to perpetuate a lie for no benefit rather than show the world truth and get everything.

It is truly a sad state of affairs for creationism when this is what they have to resort to to discredit evolutionists scientists.

If you don't believe that there are many, in the scientific community, who would lie or otherwise distort the truth to further the lie of evolution, then you don't understand human nature. Take a look at where they get their funding from. If they don't provide the results that their backers are looking for, they don't get paid. It's as simple as that.

Surely you must be kidding. Do you know how rich and powerful religious institutions are? Do you know how rich the 700 club, church organizations, the templeton foundation is?

And this is ignoring the fact that if there are scientists with evidence, actual tangible confirmable evidence that disproves evolution, they would win the nobel prize, a million dollars, and be famous. There are far more religious people who disbelieve in evolution, than there are who accept it, after all.

Not to mention, the competition is far far far far less. More than 90% of scientists believe and accept evolution as science. That means that if you are knowingly perpetrating a lie, its much much better to be in the non-evolutionary camp, because there are fewer people you have to compete against to get grants and funding.

Everything you say is counter-intuitive to what the actual state of affairs are on this planet.

There is also the fact that dissenters are harshly treated by the scientific community. The whole thing is a giant scam. Seriously. What do you think would happen to a scientist who disagreed with the theory of evolution? I could provid some examples for you.

Disagreed, with actual evidence against evolution, you mean? Sure. Please provide an example.

Otherwise, sorry, but no. when someone really really really reallyyyy believes that evolution is wrong, without actual evidence to support his claims, and actually actively tries to push his beliefs, then he deserves every peice of ridicule he gets. Thats what science is about. Evidence is the most important aspect of science, and without it, your idea is ridiculous. Ridiculous ideas deserve ridicule.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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3/19/2016 5:03:07 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 4:56:49 PM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
At 3/18/2016 2:14:19 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 7:50:33 AM, LittleBallofHATE wrote:
This is a long article, with dozen of links to other articles, but well worth reading at least the main article. It demonstrates, conclusively, that evolution is not about the search for truth. It is a deliberate effort to mislead people into the humanist camp of thought.

I expect the atheists, among other supporters of the theory of evolution, to let me have it with both barrels. Fire away. You can't silence me. The information is out there. I expect people to make their own conclusions. Nothing more. As the saying goes, the truth will set you free.

http://creation.com...

I don't think you understand the science community very well. There is huge upside to the individual scientist that can disprove significant theories. Disproving evolution would be like winning the lottery.

No scientist would purposefully collude to perpetuate a lie for no benefit rather than show the world truth and get everything.

It is truly a sad state of affairs for creationism when this is what they have to resort to to discredit evolutionists scientists.

If you don't believe that there are many, in the scientific community, who would lie or otherwise distort the truth to further the lie of evolution, then you don't understand human nature.

And, if you believe that scientists would even attempt to lie or distort their work that is not immediately identified and acknowledged as such, then you don't understand how science works or human nature.

Take a look at where they get their funding from.

Scientists try to get funding anyway the can as long as it is legal.

If they don't provide the results that their backers are looking for, they don't get paid. It's as simple as that.

Is it really as simple as that? Or, are you just once again blurting out your ignorance?

There is also the fact that dissenters are harshly treated by the scientific community.

Dissenters? Such as those who wish to push their religious agendas with non-science?

The whole thing is a giant scam.

Is it really a scam or are you just a conspiracy theory nutter?

Seriously. What do you think would happen to a scientist who disagreed with the theory of evolution?

Nothing, he would be ignored if he couldn't come up with anything scientific that actually challenges the entire theory of evolution, it's postulates and mountains of verifiable evidence spanning various disciplines.

I could provid some examples for you.

Yes, most likely you'll produce some infantile article of dishonesty and delusion, as you always do.

But hey, feel free to dispel evolution. LOL.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth