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Dirty.Harry
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3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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3/26/2016 4:36:48 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,584
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3/26/2016 4:50:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:36:48 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation? prevent water shortages? prevent oil depletion? prevent nuclear war? prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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3/26/2016 5:29:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:50:43 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:36:48 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.

Or, you can pray. Go for it. I like my ideas better, though.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,584
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3/26/2016 5:35:33 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:29:30 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:50:43 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:36:48 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.


Right, so how are you gonna get em adopted?

Or, you can pray. Go for it. I like my ideas better, though.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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3/26/2016 5:44:55 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.


Right, so how are you gonna get em adopted?

Lead by example.

How do you plan on broadcasting what 'God' wants so that people should adopt it? Before you answer, I should remind you that theism has ten fold the influence that atheism does in policy creation and implementation, and that same influence has put us in the fine mess we are in now.

So, do go on.

Or, you can pray. Go for it. I like my ideas better, though.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,584
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3/26/2016 5:51:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:44:55 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.


Right, so how are you gonna get em adopted?

Lead by example.

How do you plan on broadcasting what 'God' wants so that people should adopt it? Before you answer, I should remind you that theism has ten fold the influence that atheism does in policy creation and implementation, and that same influence has put us in the fine mess we are in now.

You missed the point of the OP, I stated that IF there is no God, no hope of a supernatural intervention and salvation then based on what we see unfolding today, there is no hope of humanity surviving.

Yo either agree or disagree, you disagree yet can'y show where I'm wrong - unless you get the world to adopt your ideas, which ain't gonna happen.

Harry.
FaustianJustice
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3/26/2016 6:01:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:51:15 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:44:55 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.


Right, so how are you gonna get em adopted?

Lead by example.

How do you plan on broadcasting what 'God' wants so that people should adopt it? Before you answer, I should remind you that theism has ten fold the influence that atheism does in policy creation and implementation, and that same influence has put us in the fine mess we are in now.

You missed the point of the OP, I stated that IF there is no God, no hope of a supernatural intervention and salvation then based on what we see unfolding today, there is no hope of humanity surviving.

And counter to that, if there IS hope of a supernatural entity to save us, there is no aspiration for something greater, the great Cosmic nanny will fix it for us. What incentive do we have to make things right? We don't. And since the world is the way it is with billions of theists engaging in whatever it is they do with the prospect of a better life after death, here we are.

I contend its quite the opposite, there is hope if we -abandon- the concept of religion, it then forces humanity to take responsibility for its actions to itself and future generations. Its hope and faith in ourselves that we adopt. I find that prospect much more rewarding

Yo either agree or disagree, you disagree yet can'y show where I'm wrong - unless you get the world to adopt your ideas, which ain't gonna happen.

It 'ain't gonna happen' cause Heaven, bro. Why care about the here and now? A popular conservative value I have been taught is that 'welfare' is entropic, and offers no motivation. What is heaven aside from the ultimate form of welfare? And what is the conservative value to ending the cycle of welfare? Cut it off.

Harry.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,584
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3/26/2016 6:34:02 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 6:01:31 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:51:15 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:44:55 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.


Right, so how are you gonna get em adopted?

Lead by example.

How do you plan on broadcasting what 'God' wants so that people should adopt it? Before you answer, I should remind you that theism has ten fold the influence that atheism does in policy creation and implementation, and that same influence has put us in the fine mess we are in now.

You missed the point of the OP, I stated that IF there is no God, no hope of a supernatural intervention and salvation then based on what we see unfolding today, there is no hope of humanity surviving.

And counter to that, if there IS hope of a supernatural entity to save us, there is no aspiration for something greater, the great Cosmic nanny will fix it for us. What incentive do we have to make things right? We don't. And since the world is the way it is with billions of theists engaging in whatever it is they do with the prospect of a better life after death, here we are.


Fine start a thread about that, mine is about IF THERE IS NO GOD, exploring what the future holds of the atheist is correct.

I contend its quite the opposite, there is hope if we -abandon- the concept of religion, it then forces humanity to take responsibility for its actions to itself and future generations. Its hope and faith in ourselves that we adopt. I find that prospect much more rewarding

Fine, so eliminating religion is a possible solution to all these ills? Even if true, again its beyond even remotely feasible and won't happen so once again, there's still no hope.


Yo either agree or disagree, you disagree yet can'y show where I'm wrong - unless you get the world to adopt your ideas, which ain't gonna happen.

It 'ain't gonna happen' cause Heaven, bro. Why care about the here and now? A popular conservative value I have been taught is that 'welfare' is entropic, and offers no motivation. What is heaven aside from the ultimate form of welfare? And what is the conservative value to ending the cycle of welfare? Cut it off.

How does cutting welfare solve any of the problems we're discussing here?
DanneJeRusse
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3/26/2016 6:35:55 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

I think your speculation shows you still don't understand atheism is a lack of belief in the claims of gods, not a worldview.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles

You make the critical error in claiming that mankind is mindless, we do have minds, however some just refuse to use them.

then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Really? Considering you theists originated and planned mankind's future based on their holy book many centuries ago, we should probably point the finger at them and their failed plans, remove their holy books from the equation and start using reason, rationale and logic to create solutions to the "frightening, miserable future" they created in the past.

Harry.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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3/26/2016 6:38:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.


Right, so how are you gonna get em adopted?

Lead by example.

How do you plan on broadcasting what 'God' wants so that people should adopt it? Before you answer, I should remind you that theism has ten fold the influence that atheism does in policy creation and implementation, and that same influence has put us in the fine mess we are in now.

You missed the point of the OP, I stated that IF there is no God, no hope of a supernatural intervention and salvation then based on what we see unfolding today, there is no hope of humanity surviving.

And counter to that, if there IS hope of a supernatural entity to save us, there is no aspiration for something greater, the great Cosmic nanny will fix it for us. What incentive do we have to make things right? We don't. And since the world is the way it is with billions of theists engaging in whatever it is they do with the prospect of a better life after death, here we are.


Fine start a thread about that, mine is about IF THERE IS NO GOD, exploring what the future holds of the atheist is correct.

And I literally just opined about that. ;)

I contend its quite the opposite, there is hope if we -abandon- the concept of religion, it then forces humanity to take responsibility for its actions to itself and future generations. Its hope and faith in ourselves that we adopt. I find that prospect much more rewarding

Fine, so eliminating religion is a possible solution to all these ills? Even if true, again its beyond even remotely feasible and won't happen so once again, there's still no hope.

Never had my point proven so fast... thanks, Harry! (You're a wizard!)


Yo either agree or disagree, you disagree yet can'y show where I'm wrong - unless you get the world to adopt your ideas, which ain't gonna happen.

It 'ain't gonna happen' cause Heaven, bro. Why care about the here and now? A popular conservative value I have been taught is that 'welfare' is entropic, and offers no motivation. What is heaven aside from the ultimate form of welfare? And what is the conservative value to ending the cycle of welfare? Cut it off.

How does cutting welfare solve any of the problems we're discussing here?

Then there is no alternate savior. Cosmic Nanny (or a welfare check, from the analogy) won't come along to save you. Do you wallow in self pity or do something with your life?

The choice is in your hands, just as it has always been.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Dirty.Harry
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3/26/2016 6:42:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 6:38:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.


Right, so how are you gonna get em adopted?

Lead by example.

How do you plan on broadcasting what 'God' wants so that people should adopt it? Before you answer, I should remind you that theism has ten fold the influence that atheism does in policy creation and implementation, and that same influence has put us in the fine mess we are in now.

You missed the point of the OP, I stated that IF there is no God, no hope of a supernatural intervention and salvation then based on what we see unfolding today, there is no hope of humanity surviving.

And counter to that, if there IS hope of a supernatural entity to save us, there is no aspiration for something greater, the great Cosmic nanny will fix it for us. What incentive do we have to make things right? We don't. And since the world is the way it is with billions of theists engaging in whatever it is they do with the prospect of a better life after death, here we are.


Fine start a thread about that, mine is about IF THERE IS NO GOD, exploring what the future holds of the atheist is correct.

And I literally just opined about that. ;)

I contend its quite the opposite, there is hope if we -abandon- the concept of religion, it then forces humanity to take responsibility for its actions to itself and future generations. Its hope and faith in ourselves that we adopt. I find that prospect much more rewarding

Fine, so eliminating religion is a possible solution to all these ills? Even if true, again its beyond even remotely feasible and won't happen so once again, there's still no hope.

Never had my point proven so fast... thanks, Harry! (You're a wizard!)


Yo either agree or disagree, you disagree yet can'y show where I'm wrong - unless you get the world to adopt your ideas, which ain't gonna happen.

It 'ain't gonna happen' cause Heaven, bro. Why care about the here and now? A popular conservative value I have been taught is that 'welfare' is entropic, and offers no motivation. What is heaven aside from the ultimate form of welfare? And what is the conservative value to ending the cycle of welfare? Cut it off.

How does cutting welfare solve any of the problems we're discussing here?

Then there is no alternate savior. Cosmic Nanny (or a welfare check, from the analogy) won't come along to save you. Do you wallow in self pity or do something with your life?

The choice is in your hands, just as it has always been.

Yet you haven't shown how humanity WILL survive only how it MIGHT survive IF this and that were to happen which you admit you cannot make happen.

I see nothing that gives me any indication these trends toward self destruction are going to change or cease and I see no hope for atheism to help humanity.

Harry.
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,584
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3/26/2016 6:48:00 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 6:35:55 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

I think your speculation shows you still don't understand atheism is a lack of belief in the claims of gods, not a worldview.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles

You make the critical error in claiming that mankind is mindless, we do have minds, however some just refuse to use them.

then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Really? Considering you theists originated and planned mankind's future based on their holy book many centuries ago, we should probably point the finger at them and their failed plans, remove their holy books from the equation and start using reason, rationale and logic to create solutions to the "frightening, miserable future" they created in the past.

Yes really, this where we're headed so what does the future hold Dummel?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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3/26/2016 6:55:46 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 6:42:22 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:38:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.


Right, so how are you gonna get em adopted?

Lead by example.

How do you plan on broadcasting what 'God' wants so that people should adopt it? Before you answer, I should remind you that theism has ten fold the influence that atheism does in policy creation and implementation, and that same influence has put us in the fine mess we are in now.

You missed the point of the OP, I stated that IF there is no God, no hope of a supernatural intervention and salvation then based on what we see unfolding today, there is no hope of humanity surviving.

And counter to that, if there IS hope of a supernatural entity to save us, there is no aspiration for something greater, the great Cosmic nanny will fix it for us. What incentive do we have to make things right? We don't. And since the world is the way it is with billions of theists engaging in whatever it is they do with the prospect of a better life after death, here we are.


Fine start a thread about that, mine is about IF THERE IS NO GOD, exploring what the future holds of the atheist is correct.

And I literally just opined about that. ;)

I contend its quite the opposite, there is hope if we -abandon- the concept of religion, it then forces humanity to take responsibility for its actions to itself and future generations. Its hope and faith in ourselves that we adopt. I find that prospect much more rewarding

Fine, so eliminating religion is a possible solution to all these ills? Even if true, again its beyond even remotely feasible and won't happen so once again, there's still no hope.

Never had my point proven so fast... thanks, Harry! (You're a wizard!)


Yo either agree or disagree, you disagree yet can'y show where I'm wrong - unless you get the world to adopt your ideas, which ain't gonna happen.

It 'ain't gonna happen' cause Heaven, bro. Why care about the here and now? A popular conservative value I have been taught is that 'welfare' is entropic, and offers no motivation. What is heaven aside from the ultimate form of welfare? And what is the conservative value to ending the cycle of welfare? Cut it off.

How does cutting welfare solve any of the problems we're discussing here?

Then there is no alternate savior. Cosmic Nanny (or a welfare check, from the analogy) won't come along to save you. Do you wallow in self pity or do something with your life?

The choice is in your hands, just as it has always been.

Yet you haven't shown how humanity WILL survive only how it MIGHT survive IF this and that were to happen which you admit you cannot make happen.

I see nothing that gives me any indication these trends toward self destruction are going to change or cease and I see no hope for atheism to help humanity.

Okay, follow along here.

1) humanity is in a pattern of self destruction

2) humanity by and large is run by theists

C- theists by and large are perpetuating a pattern of self destruction.

Why exactly do you not see abandoning the current set of pattern makers as being a solution?


Harry.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,584
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3/26/2016 7:07:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 6:55:46 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:42:22 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:38:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Almost makes ya think that maybe, just maybe, yours and mine future actually really is in our hands, and maybe, ya know, just maybe we should act responsibly because of it. What if there is no sky man to make everything better? Oh noes! We would actually have to take our own future in our own hands! The horror!

Fine words yet the reality is still there, staring you in the face. What exactly can YOU do to prevent overpopulation?

Not have five kids.

prevent water shortages?

Develop better strategies for water production and reclamation.

prevent oil depletion?

Bike or walk to the bar instead of drive.

prevent nuclear war?

This part ya got me.

prevent rising crime and drug abuse?

Not be a criminal or do drugs.

I'll tell you NOTHING. You are powerless, Bill Gates is powerless, humans cannot solve these problems, humans, human nature leads to these problems it is unable to prevent or solve them, just watch.

I dunno, man, I seem to have just listed out a series of solutions that should they be widely adopted would fit the bill.


Right, so how are you gonna get em adopted?

Lead by example.

How do you plan on broadcasting what 'God' wants so that people should adopt it? Before you answer, I should remind you that theism has ten fold the influence that atheism does in policy creation and implementation, and that same influence has put us in the fine mess we are in now.

You missed the point of the OP, I stated that IF there is no God, no hope of a supernatural intervention and salvation then based on what we see unfolding today, there is no hope of humanity surviving.

And counter to that, if there IS hope of a supernatural entity to save us, there is no aspiration for something greater, the great Cosmic nanny will fix it for us. What incentive do we have to make things right? We don't. And since the world is the way it is with billions of theists engaging in whatever it is they do with the prospect of a better life after death, here we are.


Fine start a thread about that, mine is about IF THERE IS NO GOD, exploring what the future holds of the atheist is correct.

And I literally just opined about that. ;)

I contend its quite the opposite, there is hope if we -abandon- the concept of religion, it then forces humanity to take responsibility for its actions to itself and future generations. Its hope and faith in ourselves that we adopt. I find that prospect much more rewarding

Fine, so eliminating religion is a possible solution to all these ills? Even if true, again its beyond even remotely feasible and won't happen so once again, there's still no hope.

Never had my point proven so fast... thanks, Harry! (You're a wizard!)


Yo either agree or disagree, you disagree yet can'y show where I'm wrong - unless you get the world to adopt your ideas, which ain't gonna happen.

It 'ain't gonna happen' cause Heaven, bro. Why care about the here and now? A popular conservative value I have been taught is that 'welfare' is entropic, and offers no motivation. What is heaven aside from the ultimate form of welfare? And what is the conservative value to ending the cycle of welfare? Cut it off.

How does cutting welfare solve any of the problems we're discussing here?

Then there is no alternate savior. Cosmic Nanny (or a welfare check, from the analogy) won't come along to save you. Do you wallow in self pity or do something with your life?

The choice is in your hands, just as it has always been.

Yet you haven't shown how humanity WILL survive only how it MIGHT survive IF this and that were to happen which you admit you cannot make happen.

I see nothing that gives me any indication these trends toward self destruction are going to change or cease and I see no hope for atheism to help humanity.

Okay, follow along here.

1) humanity is in a pattern of self destruction

2) humanity by and large is run by theists

C- theists by and large are perpetuating a pattern of self destruction.

Why exactly do you not see abandoning the current set of pattern makers as being a solution?


You miss the point, you see even it WERE a solution, it will never happen because you're powerless to change things, even if I agree that eliminating all religions and schools etc would prevent humanity's self destruction what good does this do us?

Finally you left out some important additional points:

3) theists are the result of evolutionary processes.

4) evolutionary processes are by and large perpetuating a pattern of self destruction...




Harry.
RuvDraba
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3/26/2016 7:33:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.
You mean the reckless consumption and expansion by people who expect God to save them from their negligence is scary?

It sure is. :p
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,584
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3/26/2016 7:44:21 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 7:33:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.
You mean the reckless consumption and expansion by people who expect God to save them from their negligence is scary?

It sure is. :p

This is a new one - only people who believe in the Biblical God consume resources and act negligently! I won't dignify this absurdity with a refutation.

But back to the point, let's agree there's no God, the universe is wholly material and mechanistic as are all events which take place within the universe. Evolution is correct and unaided chemical interactions was the cause of living beings emerging.

The trends mentioned above seem to indicate the demise of humanity (a product of naturalism) due to the combined actions of humanity.

The end result seems to be one of no hope for the future, is this the real conclusion of all our science and investigation?

Harry.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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3/26/2016 8:00:07 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 6:48:00 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:35:55 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

I think your speculation shows you still don't understand atheism is a lack of belief in the claims of gods, not a worldview.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles

You make the critical error in claiming that mankind is mindless, we do have minds, however some just refuse to use them.

then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Really? Considering you theists originated and planned mankind's future based on their holy book many centuries ago, we should probably point the finger at them and their failed plans, remove their holy books from the equation and start using reason, rationale and logic to create solutions to the "frightening, miserable future" they created in the past.

Yes really, this where we're headed so what does the future hold Dummel?

Here you go again - the descent into insulting anyone who dares to disagree with you, how predictable you're becoming. -Dirty Harry.


Funny how you never tire of being a hypocrite, Harry.

Only if we can rid ourselves of the stranglehold monotheistic religions have on mankind will any kind of future come to fruition.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,584
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3/26/2016 8:04:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 8:00:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:48:00 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:35:55 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

I think your speculation shows you still don't understand atheism is a lack of belief in the claims of gods, not a worldview.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles

You make the critical error in claiming that mankind is mindless, we do have minds, however some just refuse to use them.

then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Really? Considering you theists originated and planned mankind's future based on their holy book many centuries ago, we should probably point the finger at them and their failed plans, remove their holy books from the equation and start using reason, rationale and logic to create solutions to the "frightening, miserable future" they created in the past.

Yes really, this where we're headed so what does the future hold Dummel?

Only if we can rid ourselves of the stranglehold monotheistic religions have on mankind will any kind of future come to fruition.

Fine, lets agree then that religion is the cause of oh so many ills. In practical terms what EXACTLY are you or ANYONE going to do to improve the world and prevent these trends from culminating in self destruction?

The fact remains nature has led to what we have and see today, nature alone is to "blame" and it looks like everything's doomed.
autocorrect
Posts: 432
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3/26/2016 8:20:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 7:44:21 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 7:33:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.
You mean the reckless consumption and expansion by people who expect God to save them from their negligence is scary?

It sure is. :p

This is a new one - only people who believe in the Biblical God consume resources and act negligently! I won't dignify this absurdity with a refutation.

But back to the point, let's agree there's no God, the universe is wholly material and mechanistic as are all events which take place within the universe. Evolution is correct and unaided chemical interactions was the cause of living beings emerging.

The trends mentioned above seem to indicate the demise of humanity (a product of naturalism) due to the combined actions of humanity.

The end result seems to be one of no hope for the future, is this the real conclusion of all our science and investigation?

Harry.

Of course there's hope for the future. We don't have any problems we cannot solve - on the basis of the knowledge and technologies we have now. Implementation is gradual and piecemeal - as opposed to some huge master plan, that would run into problems because humankind is divided by religion and politics, and quite suspicious of the other's intent. However, consider the invisible hand of capitalism - a magical force that somehow organizes the production and distribution of goods and services overall, with no master plan. We just have to want a viable future enough to influence countless discrete decisions people, businesses and governments make - just a little bit, and it will add up to a viable future. I mean, look at this on London's giant floating solar farm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/26/2016 8:42:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 7:44:21 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 7:33:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.
You mean the reckless consumption and expansion by people who expect God to save them from their negligence is scary?
It sure is. :p
This is a new one - only people who believe in the Biblical God consume resources and act negligently!
Strawman. I said that expecting God to save you from negligence is scary.

Compared with the unaffiliated, evangelical and mainline Protestants (of any race), as well as Catholics and other Christians, are more likely to say world population growth will not be a major problem because we will find a way to stretch our natural resources.
-- Pew, October 2015
[http://www.pewinternet.org...]

The end result seems to be one of no hope for the future, is this the real conclusion of all our science and investigation?
The end result is that the prospects we have for the future depend on what we choose to do. And while religion doesn't necessarily predict climate denialism (say), nevertheless, people who believe that the Earth was 'created' for man's tenancy seem overly optimistic about the consequences of humanity continuing to multiply. :p

And your suggestion that religion offers a way 'out' of our population, energy and environmental challenges rather reinforces my comment on how scary religious people can be. :p
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/26/2016 11:32:46 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Well, we survive or don't. God has nothing to do with it.

I think people who are willing to accept that there is no one coming to save us are the ones in the best position plan for a future with us in it, and the ones who expect salvation from mysticism are craping it all up
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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3/26/2016 11:37:29 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 8:04:06 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 8:00:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:48:00 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:35:55 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

I think your speculation shows you still don't understand atheism is a lack of belief in the claims of gods, not a worldview.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles

You make the critical error in claiming that mankind is mindless, we do have minds, however some just refuse to use them.

then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Really? Considering you theists originated and planned mankind's future based on their holy book many centuries ago, we should probably point the finger at them and their failed plans, remove their holy books from the equation and start using reason, rationale and logic to create solutions to the "frightening, miserable future" they created in the past.

Yes really, this where we're headed so what does the future hold Dummel?

Only if we can rid ourselves of the stranglehold monotheistic religions have on mankind will any kind of future come to fruition.

Fine, lets agree then that religion is the cause of oh so many ills. In practical terms what EXACTLY are you or ANYONE going to do to improve the world and prevent these trends from culminating in self destruction?

All we can hope to do is educate the uneducated, disillusion the delusional and speak against the hatred, bigotry and discrimination.

The fact remains nature has led to what we have and see today, nature alone is to "blame" and it looks like everything's doomed.

LOL. You're starting to sound like MCB.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
janesix
Posts: 3,446
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3/27/2016 2:24:55 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.
We deserve what we get if we fck sht up. It's up to us to clean up our mess.
slo1
Posts: 4,318
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3/27/2016 2:52:55 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Well considering God has allowed all these horrible things to happen on earth and the prediction that he is going to make it even worse for a majority of I find much more hope in humanity fixing earthly problems versus God fixing them.
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,584
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3/27/2016 4:01:03 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 8:42:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/26/2016 7:44:21 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 7:33:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.
You mean the reckless consumption and expansion by people who expect God to save them from their negligence is scary?
It sure is. :p
This is a new one - only people who believe in the Biblical God consume resources and act negligently!
Strawman. I said that expecting God to save you from negligence is scary.

Compared with the unaffiliated, evangelical and mainline Protestants (of any race), as well as Catholics and other Christians, are more likely to say world population growth will not be a major problem because we will find a way to stretch our natural resources.
-- Pew, October 2015
[http://www.pewinternet.org...]

The end result seems to be one of no hope for the future, is this the real conclusion of all our science and investigation?
The end result is that the prospects we have for the future depend on what we choose to do.

No that's wrong, the prospect depend on what we're ABLE to do - there's a huge difference.

And while religion doesn't necessarily predict climate denialism (say), nevertheless, people who believe that the Earth was 'created' for man's tenancy seem overly optimistic about the consequences of humanity continuing to multiply. :p

Strawman - your belief that the optimism of some religious people is unwarranted is irrelevant to this thread. I'm asking what specifically can you show me to encourage us that the trends I've summarized can be changed and catastrophe avoided?


And your suggestion that religion offers a way 'out' of our population, energy and environmental challenges rather reinforces my comment on how scary religious people can be. :p

You're determined to evade aren't you? I've said several times LETS AGREE RELIGION is bogus, God doesn't exist, the universe wasn't created and is purely mechanistic and evolution really did take place - LETS assume this.

THEN what hope can YOU offer that things will improve and catastrophe will be avoided?

Do you agree that man's current stewardship of the earth is leading to an eventual catastrophe? YES OR NO !!

Harry.
Dirty.Harry
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3/27/2016 4:02:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 11:32:46 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Well, we survive or don't. God has nothing to do with it.

I think people who are willing to accept that there is no one coming to save us are the ones in the best position plan for a future with us in it, and the ones who expect salvation from mysticism are craping it all up

So again - no answer, no hint at exactly HOW we'll see these trends reversed.

Harry.
Dirty.Harry
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3/27/2016 4:03:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 2:24:55 AM, janesix wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.
We deserve what we get if we fck sht up. It's up to us to clean up our mess.

I agree BUT do you think that's actually going to happen?
Dirty.Harry
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3/27/2016 4:06:40 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 2:52:55 AM, slo1 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
I'd like to speculate a little if I may, indulge me if you will.

One huge issue I see with the theism/atheism debate is that ultimately the atheism world view offers no hope for humanity's future.

If there really is no God, if there really is no plan for the redemption of mankind and reality is simply mindless mechanistic forces dancing amongst particles then what hope can there be when we seriously extrapolate current trends:

1. Population increase leading to mass starvation, food and water shortages.
2. Pollution.
3. Oil exhaustion and consequential price rises.
4. Incessant wars possibly with nuclear weapons.
5. Violence, terrorism, crime rising all the time.
6. Misery, unemployment and drug abuse rising in formerly affluent communities.

The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.

Harry.

Well considering God has allowed all these horrible things to happen on earth and the prediction that he is going to make it even worse for a majority of I find much more hope in humanity fixing earthly problems versus God fixing them.

I said (several times now) lets agree there is no God, evolution is true, etc etc. Yet you and a few others want to keep referring to God in your replies!

Answer my question please - without referring to God or religion - WHAT reason can you offer to convince me these frightening trends will not culminate in catastrophe?

Harry.
Dirty.Harry
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3/27/2016 4:08:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 8:20:43 PM, autocorrect wrote:
At 3/26/2016 7:44:21 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 7:33:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:21:45 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
The worldview promulgated by atheism leads inevitably to a frightening, miserable future.
You mean the reckless consumption and expansion by people who expect God to save them from their negligence is scary?

It sure is. :p

This is a new one - only people who believe in the Biblical God consume resources and act negligently! I won't dignify this absurdity with a refutation.

But back to the point, let's agree there's no God, the universe is wholly material and mechanistic as are all events which take place within the universe. Evolution is correct and unaided chemical interactions was the cause of living beings emerging.

The trends mentioned above seem to indicate the demise of humanity (a product of naturalism) due to the combined actions of humanity.

The end result seems to be one of no hope for the future, is this the real conclusion of all our science and investigation?

Harry.

Of course there's hope for the future. We don't have any problems we cannot solve - on the basis of the knowledge and technologies we have now. Implementation is gradual and piecemeal - as opposed to some huge master plan, that would run into problems because humankind is divided by religion and politics, and quite suspicious of the other's intent.

However, consider the invisible hand of capitalism - a magical force that somehow organizes the production and distribution of goods and services overall, with no master plan. We just have to want a viable future enough to influence countless discrete decisions people, businesses and governments make - just a little bit, and it will add up to a viable future. I mean, look at this on London's giant floating solar farm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...

Yet the world's population has grown by 87,000 since I started this thread.

All your offering is platitudes.