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Proof evolution is false

NewLifeChristian
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3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?
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FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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3/26/2016 6:33:17 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

... so were I to understand the thrust of the explanation, we use science to explain nature, and when science can't explain nature...

Make it up as we go. (we will call this part 'super'natural for ease of use).

That isn't 'proof', that is just further speculation.

Moving on.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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3/26/2016 6:44:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

Stopped reading after this nonsense:

"There are three lines of evidence that the cause of the universe is intelligent.

First, creation from nothing implies that creation was willed into existence. The universe once did not exist"and it did not ever have to exist. But since it did come to exist it shows that somebody with a mind and will decided to cause it to exist.

Second, we know the cause is intelligent by looking at what was created. The universe reveals advanced planning of a great mind. Not only is life complex (to be discussed shortly) but it appears that the universe was fine-tuned for human life from the beginning"commonly called the anthropic principle. "
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,585
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3/26/2016 6:55:17 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 6:44:06 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

Stopped reading after this nonsense:

"There are three lines of evidence that the cause of the universe is intelligent.

First, creation from nothing implies that creation was willed into existence. The universe once did not exist"and it did not ever have to exist. But since it did come to exist it shows that somebody with a mind and will decided to cause it to exist.

Second, we know the cause is intelligent by looking at what was created. The universe reveals advanced planning of a great mind. Not only is life complex (to be discussed shortly) but it appears that the universe was fine-tuned for human life from the beginning"commonly called the anthropic principle. "


Nothing nonsense there Dummel, had you ever opened even an elementary book on philosophy you'd be aware if this but you cling to your pop-science authors, try broadening your choice of reading material.

Creation from nothing means there cannot have been a physical cause, imagine - if your mind is capable of such a feat - a universe coming into being when there was none before, think about it...
WAM
Posts: 139
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3/26/2016 7:01:52 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
I will simply analyse all their points, by title.

Forensic Example"Finding A Dead Body
Makes no sense. A heart attack does not prove a natural death. Thus the whole conclusion is quite useless and stupid.

Part 1"The Universe Must Have Had An Intelligent Cause
Same argument back at them. Where did that 'creator' they imply came from?

The Universe Had a Beginning
And? If it did or didn't, what's the difference? Going by what Christians see under the '6 creation days' it doesn't matter in any case..

S"Second Law of Thermodynamics
Don't talk about physics if you don't understand them. If I should follow their argument, then where did the energy come from, which the creator they are implying, used to create the universe... Science is a btch...

U"Universe is Expanding
And? What's they're point? That the Universe did not have a beginning? The quantum model may predict that, but that makes no difference. It once again only shows that they are using physics they don't understand. Like a child using too big words..

R"Radiation From the "Big Bang"
Once again, the big bang has nothing to do with anything.. Using random things with no correlation does not make one correct.

G"Great Galaxy Seeds
Once again, same thing.. What is their obsession with the big bang?? Besides, the quantum theory may not be correct.. (http://phys.org...)

E"Einstein"s General Relativity
Big bang again.. What is their obsession with that, once again??

The Cause of the Universe Must Be Supernatural (Beyond Nature)
WHAT? Clearly not if you are reading the evidence they provided, in which it states that the universe had no beginning, read some quantum theory and see...

The Cause Must Also Be Intelligent
So much crap in this.. Just incredible.. 'fine-tuned for human life from the beginning'.. Really? For human destruction or what?
Also, the 'quote' of Allan Sandage is horribly misquoted..

The Naturalistic Cosmic Evolution Explanation Is Inadequate
Not the evidence you provided yourself...

Part 2"First Life Must Have Had An Intelligent Cause
Evidence?

There Are Just Two Options, Really
And? This is not an argument..

Spontaneous Generation
And?

The Miller"Urey Experiment
Not much to argue here..

Problems with Spontaneous Generation
'Research' from 1668 is not good evidence... Nor does it look good to not have a clue what you are talking about..

Part 3"Human Life Must Have Had An Intelligent Cause
Really? Once again, no proper evidence supporting the thesis or anything valid..

The Scientific Method Requires Observation
Ok.. Read this, especially the part about not understanding high school science (http://www.debate.org...)

Observing Changes Within A Kind Is Not Proof
The usage of the word 'kind' already pisses me off.. But yeah, once again, useless waffling about nothing in the end..

Observing Similarity Is Not Proof
And reading the bible does not proof god.

L"Lack of Fossil Evidence
Where is this 'lack'? It's basically all there...

No Sign of Macroevolution in the Fossil Record
So, so stupid... Maybe they should, like, read a book or something.. On primary school science.. My 10 year old brother is more educated than these people..

What About "Intermediate Links?"
"Piltdown Bird".. How stupid can you be??? They can't even check what they write.. It's just random things together.. How am I supposed to take this serious???

Where Do Living Fossils Fit?
And your point is??

I"Impossible to Achieve
Is it? Proof??

Self-Organization is Contrary to Second Law
Once again, a little child using too big words. these people have no idea what they are talking about..

Three Types of Order in Nature
Once again, what's their point? Seems to be none..

Specified Complexity Requires an Intelligent Designer
They were talking about randomization and probability just before, and now this.. No consistency..

Irreducible Complexity
And??

Life is Irreducibly Complex
So is chemistry.. Don't see you winging about how your "rock rock rock" is not a rock anymore if chemical composition is changed..

P"Plausibility Problems
Don't talk about probability. How probable is it that the Christian God is the real one? Answer that first..

Macroevolution Requires Nine Conditions
Once again, probability. Guess what, doesn't matter what the outcome is, it can still happen. So your point is invalid.

Put All Three Together: A Plausibility Nightmare
Still more likely than what you believe in...

"Three Strikes, Evolution"You"re Out!"
Nope. What a crappy conclusion.

Appendix 1: The Analogy of the Canyon
And God is not the exact same? 10 jumps in one? Oh my.. Learn how to make an argument.

Finally it is to note that a whole bunch of 'evidence' comes from places like the "Institute for creation research". How 'credible'.

I am not an architect. I will not tell an architect how their work is supposed to be done. These people are not scientists. They should not tell scientists what their opinion is about abc if that opinion is absolutely ridiculous and lacks any sort of intelligence. But then, once again, what would you expect? Kids trying to use big words, without any understanding of what they mean. An overall weak, if not non-existent argument, topped with extreme stupidity.

I wonder when Christians will finally stop with all the bs and just accept that they cannot explain the world with a book that can't explain basically anything.

Why would you want to in any case. The bible is quite appalling. Seriously. Read it. And then tell me again how loving it is. And how it explains all this. Not.
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 378
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3/26/2016 8:47:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

Shots have been fired and the flame wars a coming.

Lots of information presented and I'm not sure how a person who is not already familiar with these arguments would digest all of that. However, for the sake of intellectual conversation, it would be better to sumerize the information into a post instead of throwing a link at an evolutionist. It is rather annoying when someone throws a link with that many arguments and expects me to refute every single one of them.

NewLifeChristian, while your intentions are good, this isn't necessarily the right approach to debate evolution vs. creationism. How would you feel if an evolutionist throws a link at you with dozens of evolutionary arguments? Would you really expend the effort and time to research and contest those arguments?
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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3/26/2016 8:49:17 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

My thoughts are Christians don't understand what the word proof means.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 378
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3/26/2016 8:59:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 7:01:52 PM, WAM wrote:
I will simply analyse all their points, by title.

Forensic Example"Finding A Dead Body
Makes no sense. A heart attack does not prove a natural death. Thus the whole conclusion is quite useless and stupid.

Part 1"The Universe Must Have Had An Intelligent Cause
Same argument back at them. Where did that 'creator' they imply came from?

The Universe Had a Beginning
And? If it did or didn't, what's the difference? Going by what Christians see under the '6 creation days' it doesn't matter in any case..

S"Second Law of Thermodynamics
Don't talk about physics if you don't understand them. If I should follow their argument, then where did the energy come from, which the creator they are implying, used to create the universe... Science is a btch...

U"Universe is Expanding
And? What's they're point? That the Universe did not have a beginning? The quantum model may predict that, but that makes no difference. It once again only shows that they are using physics they don't understand. Like a child using too big words..

R"Radiation From the "Big Bang"
Once again, the big bang has nothing to do with anything.. Using random things with no correlation does not make one correct.

G"Great Galaxy Seeds
Once again, same thing.. What is their obsession with the big bang?? Besides, the quantum theory may not be correct.. (http://phys.org...)

E"Einstein"s General Relativity
Big bang again.. What is their obsession with that, once again??

The Cause of the Universe Must Be Supernatural (Beyond Nature)
WHAT? Clearly not if you are reading the evidence they provided, in which it states that the universe had no beginning, read some quantum theory and see...

The Cause Must Also Be Intelligent
So much crap in this.. Just incredible.. 'fine-tuned for human life from the beginning'.. Really? For human destruction or what?
Also, the 'quote' of Allan Sandage is horribly misquoted..

The Naturalistic Cosmic Evolution Explanation Is Inadequate
Not the evidence you provided yourself...

Part 2"First Life Must Have Had An Intelligent Cause
Evidence?

There Are Just Two Options, Really
And? This is not an argument..

Spontaneous Generation
And?

The Miller"Urey Experiment
Not much to argue here..

Problems with Spontaneous Generation
'Research' from 1668 is not good evidence... Nor does it look good to not have a clue what you are talking about..

Part 3"Human Life Must Have Had An Intelligent Cause
Really? Once again, no proper evidence supporting the thesis or anything valid..

The Scientific Method Requires Observation
Ok.. Read this, especially the part about not understanding high school science (http://www.debate.org...)

Observing Changes Within A Kind Is Not Proof
The usage of the word 'kind' already pisses me off.. But yeah, once again, useless waffling about nothing in the end..

Observing Similarity Is Not Proof
And reading the bible does not proof god.

L"Lack of Fossil Evidence
Where is this 'lack'? It's basically all there...

No Sign of Macroevolution in the Fossil Record
So, so stupid... Maybe they should, like, read a book or something.. On primary school science.. My 10 year old brother is more educated than these people..

What About "Intermediate Links?"
"Piltdown Bird".. How stupid can you be??? They can't even check what they write.. It's just random things together.. How am I supposed to take this serious???

Where Do Living Fossils Fit?
And your point is??

I"Impossible to Achieve
Is it? Proof??

Self-Organization is Contrary to Second Law
Once again, a little child using too big words. these people have no idea what they are talking about..

Three Types of Order in Nature
Once again, what's their point? Seems to be none..

Specified Complexity Requires an Intelligent Designer
They were talking about randomization and probability just before, and now this.. No consistency..

Irreducible Complexity
And??

Life is Irreducibly Complex
So is chemistry.. Don't see you winging about how your "rock rock rock" is not a rock anymore if chemical composition is changed..

P"Plausibility Problems
Don't talk about probability. How probable is it that the Christian God is the real one? Answer that first..

Macroevolution Requires Nine Conditions
Once again, probability. Guess what, doesn't matter what the outcome is, it can still happen. So your point is invalid.

Put All Three Together: A Plausibility Nightmare
Still more likely than what you believe in...

"Three Strikes, Evolution"You"re Out!"
Nope. What a crappy conclusion.

Appendix 1: The Analogy of the Canyon
And God is not the exact same? 10 jumps in one? Oh my.. Learn how to make an argument.


Finally it is to note that a whole bunch of 'evidence' comes from places like the "Institute for creation research". How 'credible'.

I am not an architect. I will not tell an architect how their work is supposed to be done. These people are not scientists. They should not tell scientists what their opinion is about abc if that opinion is absolutely ridiculous and lacks any sort of intelligence. But then, once again, what would you expect? Kids trying to use big words, without any understanding of what they mean. An overall weak, if not non-existent argument, topped with extreme stupidity.

I wonder when Christians will finally stop with all the bs and just accept that they cannot explain the world with a book that can't explain basically anything.

Why would you want to in any case. The bible is quite appalling. Seriously. Read it. And then tell me again how loving it is. And how it explains all this. Not.

Something tells me that you only skimmed the arguments and your comments seem to lack deep analysis based on the fact that many of your responses are simple hand-waiving. Your comments about the Bible specifically indicates that you yourself appear to be a hypocrite as you appear to have derived your judgement of the Bible through a handful of "hateful" verses you probably picked up on some atheists blog. I have some serious doubts that you know more about the Bible beyond those few verses.

My recommendation, pick up creationist literature and take time to throughly read it before posting such comments.

Best wishes,
NothingSpecial99
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
autocorrect
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3/26/2016 9:17:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

Just to clarify... it is necessary to download and read a book in order to take part in this discussion? Because I'm not doing that... On this forum, the least I would expect from the OP is a summary of the arguments and a link to the book. Otherwise, it is, like many a theist claim, just unsubstantiated assertion, easily countered:

The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection by ...
www.gutenberg.org " 51,465 free ebooks " 45 by Charles Darwin
Stronn
Posts: 318
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3/26/2016 10:20:36 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

First off, evolution does not imply atheism. Please stop asserting that the two are equivalent. Doing so demonstrates either ignorance or a willingness to engage in intellectual dishonesty.

As for the page you linked, I don't see anything new there. It is just a smattering of old creationist talking points and quote mines that keep getting recycled no matter how many times they are debunked. Some, like the argument that God exists, are not even arguments against evolution, per se. Most people here won't bother writing a point-by-point refutation every time someone posts a link to yet another creationist web page, since it almost invariably contains nothing that has not already been refuted ad nauseam, and most especially when the poster does not bother to summarize the main points. Suffice it to say that I don't see any anti-evolution argument made on that webpage that has not been thoroughly refuted at http://www.talkorigins.org.... So posting such a link is far from the great big "Gotcha!" that you probably had in mind.

If you are truly interested in discussing any of the points made in that page, I suggest you start a new topic with what you consider the best argument. You may want to first familiarize yourself with its refutation at the above link so as to have an informed discussion.
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 378
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3/26/2016 10:31:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 10:20:36 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

First off, evolution does not imply atheism. Please stop asserting that the two are equivalent. Doing so demonstrates either ignorance or a willingness to engage in intellectual dishonesty.

I disagree with you on this point. Evolution is essential to the atheistic worldview as atheists would have to explain the the world around them including the complexity of life around us without God
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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3/26/2016 11:23:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

Ever wonder why there is never a post from an atheists like this?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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3/26/2016 11:34:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 6:55:17 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:44:06 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

Stopped reading after this nonsense:

"There are three lines of evidence that the cause of the universe is intelligent.

First, creation from nothing implies that creation was willed into existence. The universe once did not exist"and it did not ever have to exist. But since it did come to exist it shows that somebody with a mind and will decided to cause it to exist.

Second, we know the cause is intelligent by looking at what was created. The universe reveals advanced planning of a great mind. Not only is life complex (to be discussed shortly) but it appears that the universe was fine-tuned for human life from the beginning"commonly called the anthropic principle. "


Nothing nonsense there Dummel,

Well, yes it is nonsense you filthy piece of distended rectum.

had you ever opened even an elementary book on philosophy you'd be aware if this but you cling to your pop-science authors, try broadening your choice of reading material.

Had you ever opened a book other than the Bible, you might be aware of what science is about, try jumping off a cliff.

Creation from nothing means there cannot have been a physical cause,

Yes, that is exactly what theists claim, that the universe was created from nothing, you're such a moron.

imagine - if your mind is capable of such a feat -

Imagine, if you weren't such an idiot.

a universe coming into being when there was none before, think about it...

a believer thinking, think about it...

Btw, I decided to start insulting you too, makes for more childish fun, yes?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Stronn
Posts: 318
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3/26/2016 11:58:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 10:31:31 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 10:20:36 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

First off, evolution does not imply atheism. Please stop asserting that the two are equivalent. Doing so demonstrates either ignorance or a willingness to engage in intellectual dishonesty.

I disagree with you on this point. Evolution is essential to the atheistic worldview as atheists would have to explain the the world around them including the complexity of life around us without God

You are arguing the reverse implication, that atheism requires evolution. My point was that evolution does not require atheism. Many religious people accept evolution. Therefore calling evolution an atheist theory is a misrepresentation.

Even so, the reverse implication, that atheism requires evolution, does not hold up to scrutiny either. There are many non-theistic scenarios in which evolution could turn out to be false. For instance, life on Earth could have been designed and maintained by aliens.
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 378
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3/27/2016 12:00:57 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 11:58:35 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/26/2016 10:31:31 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 10:20:36 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

First off, evolution does not imply atheism. Please stop asserting that the two are equivalent. Doing so demonstrates either ignorance or a willingness to engage in intellectual dishonesty.

I disagree with you on this point. Evolution is essential to the atheistic worldview as atheists would have to explain the the world around them including the complexity of life around us without God

You are arguing the reverse implication, that atheism requires evolution. My point was that evolution does not require atheism. Many religious people accept evolution. Therefore calling evolution an atheist theory is a misrepresentation.

Even so, the reverse implication, that atheism requires evolution, does not hold up to scrutiny either. There are many non-theistic scenarios in which evolution could turn out to be false. For instance, life on Earth could have been designed and maintained by aliens.

Aliens do not necessarily solve the issue, one could easily ask the question how did the aliens arise?
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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3/27/2016 12:08:25 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 10:31:31 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
Evolution is essential to the atheistic worldview

Not really; a fair amount of intelligent design proponents are secular
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
NothingSpecial99
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3/27/2016 12:09:21 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 12:08:25 AM, someloser wrote:
At 3/26/2016 10:31:31 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
Evolution is essential to the atheistic worldview

Not really; a fair amount of intelligent design proponents are secular

That seems to be an oxymoron.
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
someloser
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3/27/2016 12:10:37 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 12:09:21 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
That seems to be an oxymoron.

Not at all. A deity is not a prerequisite for ID - note that naturalist isn't the same as secular
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
NothingSpecial99
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3/27/2016 12:14:30 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 12:10:37 AM, someloser wrote:
At 3/27/2016 12:09:21 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
That seems to be an oxymoron.

Not at all. A deity is not a prerequisite for ID - note that naturalist isn't the same as secular

Enlighten me then as to what the ID beliefs are with actual statements from ID proponents
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
NothingSpecial99
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3/27/2016 12:31:58 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 11:23:43 PM, TBR wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

Ever wonder why there is never a post from an atheists like this?

I wouldn't say never, not necessarily here but I've encountered atheists who argue by posting a link to a lengthy list of evolutionary arguments that would cost me an eternity to properly research and refute
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
someloser
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3/27/2016 12:37:40 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 12:14:30 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
Enlighten me then as to what the ID beliefs are with actual statements from ID proponents

It's really a no-brainer. ID is just the belief that aspects of the universe/organisms could not have come about without conscious interference. There is no reason to assume a deity -must- be the cause of said interference.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 378
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3/27/2016 12:39:25 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 12:37:40 AM, someloser wrote:
At 3/27/2016 12:14:30 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
Enlighten me then as to what the ID beliefs are with actual statements from ID proponents

It's really a no-brainer. ID is just the belief that aspects of the universe/organisms could not have come about without conscious interference. There is no reason to assume a deity -must- be the cause of said interference.

What's the alternative?
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
Torton
Posts: 988
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3/27/2016 12:43:11 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
If evolution could be so obviously proven incorrect, it would have been by now and by scientific review, not some lard a$s on the internet.
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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3/27/2016 12:45:24 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 12:39:25 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
What's the alternative?

Aliens that evolved? ID being a thing doesn't necessarily rule out evolution. Could be some other supernatural force that is not a deity. Literally anything.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Torton
Posts: 988
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3/27/2016 12:57:51 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 12:45:24 AM, someloser wrote:
At 3/27/2016 12:39:25 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
What's the alternative?

Aliens that evolved? ID being a thing doesn't necessarily rule out evolution. Could be some other supernatural force that is not a deity. Literally anything.
Weird that it notified me of this.
WAM
Posts: 139
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3/27/2016 3:39:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 8:59:24 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 7:01:52 PM, WAM wrote:

Something tells me that you only skimmed the arguments and your comments seem to lack deep analysis based on the fact that many of your responses are simple hand-waiving. Your comments about the Bible specifically indicates that you yourself appear to be a hypocrite as you appear to have derived your judgement of the Bible through a handful of "hateful" verses you probably picked up on some atheists blog. I have some serious doubts that you know more about the Bible beyond those few verses.

I read all the arguments and checked their sources and then looked at the scientific evidence. It took a couple hours. I actually analysed the whole thing. Which you most likely did not. If you cannot see why many of my arguments are hand waiving, you clearly have not properly read the article.

And about the bible, I have read the New Testament and parts of the old testament. What am I supposed to think of a book that already majorly contradicts itself on the first page, Matthew 1?

Also, statistically, people with high IQ's generally do not believe in God. So what is the probability that you are just a 'stereotypical Asian nerd'? Not a good one. 'Nerds' generally surround themselves with science and reason, and religion does not fit into that mix.
My recommendation, pick up creationist literature and take time to throughly read it before posting such comments.

No. I won't even bother with that. I have read 'creationist' literature before, and consider it nothing else than 'literature'. It is not science. It is not rational. It does not make sense, nor would the majority of it function. But then, once again, the only explanation they can come up with against that is 'God did it'...

Best wishes,
NothingSpecial99
distraff
Posts: 1,005
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3/27/2016 5:02:46 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

"But the cause of the natural world cannot be by nature (it cannot be self-caused)."

The problem with your argument is that the above theories and evidence only talk about the origin of this universe and there may be more out there that caused it to exist. Even Christians admit this universe is not all there is and they imaging a super-natural world beyond this one.
Stronn
Posts: 318
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3/27/2016 5:32:46 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 12:00:57 AM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 11:58:35 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/26/2016 10:31:31 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 10:20:36 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

First off, evolution does not imply atheism. Please stop asserting that the two are equivalent. Doing so demonstrates either ignorance or a willingness to engage in intellectual dishonesty.

I disagree with you on this point. Evolution is essential to the atheistic worldview as atheists would have to explain the the world around them including the complexity of life around us without God

You are arguing the reverse implication, that atheism requires evolution. My point was that evolution does not require atheism. Many religious people accept evolution. Therefore calling evolution an atheist theory is a misrepresentation.

Even so, the reverse implication, that atheism requires evolution, does not hold up to scrutiny either. There are many non-theistic scenarios in which evolution could turn out to be false. For instance, life on Earth could have been designed and maintained by aliens.

Aliens do not necessarily solve the issue, one could easily ask the question how did the aliens arise?

Of course. it would raise further questions. But that is beside the point, which was that evolution is not synonymous with atheism.
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,585
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3/27/2016 3:49:36 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 11:34:45 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:55:17 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/26/2016 6:44:06 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 5:24:16 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
Read more: http://geekychristian.com...

I wonder how atheists are going to explain this . . .

Thoughts?

Stopped reading after this nonsense:

"There are three lines of evidence that the cause of the universe is intelligent.

First, creation from nothing implies that creation was willed into existence. The universe once did not exist"and it did not ever have to exist. But since it did come to exist it shows that somebody with a mind and will decided to cause it to exist.

Second, we know the cause is intelligent by looking at what was created. The universe reveals advanced planning of a great mind. Not only is life complex (to be discussed shortly) but it appears that the universe was fine-tuned for human life from the beginning"commonly called the anthropic principle. "


Nothing nonsense there Dummel,

Well, yes it is nonsense you filthy piece of distended rectum.

had you ever opened even an elementary book on philosophy you'd be aware if this but you cling to your pop-science authors, try broadening your choice of reading material.

Had you ever opened a book other than the Bible, you might be aware of what science is about, try jumping off a cliff.

How juvenile, seriously Dummel don't you think you're being just a bit silly to claim I've never opened any book other than a Bible? ridiculous.

Creation from nothing means there cannot have been a physical cause,

Yes, that is exactly what theists claim, that the universe was created from nothing, you're such a moron.

imagine - if your mind is capable of such a feat -

Imagine, if you weren't such an idiot.

a universe coming into being when there was none before, think about it...

a believer thinking, think about it...

Btw, I decided to start insulting you too, makes for more childish fun, yes?

I knew your true colors would eventually emerge Dummel, many disagree with me in this forum but none resort to the tactics you do like repeatedly claiming I know nothing of science or that I've never opened any book other than a Bible or that I don't understand relativity or evolution or that simply because I believe a God lies behind the universe and its machinations that I'm somehow ready for a straitjacket.

Nobody but you stoops to these levels, everybody else makes an effort to honestly engage and discuss - except you.

Now if you can't act like an adult and discuss things in an honest manner with respect for your opponent then I suggest you find some other hobby.

Harry.