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# Math is not Science

 Posts: 6,138 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/5/2016 2:59:53 AMPosted: 2 years agoIn many ways, math is closely related to science. Mathematics is a scholarly domain, and so the mathematical community works as the scientific community does " mathematicians build on each other's work and behave in ways that push the discipline forward. This progress contributes to scientific breakthroughs. Mathematics is such a useful tool that science could make few advances without it. However, math and standard sciences, like biology, physics, and chemistry, are distinct in at least one way: how ideas are tested and accepted based on evidence. Math doesn't rely on testing ideas against evidence from the natural world in the same way that other sciences do. Mathematical ideas are often accepted based on deductive proofs, while ideas in other sciences are generally accepted based on the accumulation of many different observations supporting the idea.Does math deal with or aim to explain the natural world? Math works with numbers. Numbers are abstractions, they are conceptions. Some think that numbers are real in only how they describe real entities. But there are formulas that utilize numbers that are imaginary and produce real world predictions. There are mathematical entities with no analogy in the "real" world.Is math an inherent part of how the universe works, or is it a language we've constructed to help us describe that universe? There have been some philosophical views that have gone as far as state everything is math. But mathematicians will often work on ideas and formulas in number theory and invariant, only later to be used by Natural Scientist to describe what they are seeing. We can see this with the math used in string theory. The math was created to describe mathematical relationships and properties. It was not even known how it related to anything in the real world.Does Math conduct testing of hypothesis? Math proofs are deductive proofs. They don't rely on inductive hypothesis testing. Take the conception of infinite sets in Math. There is no real world experiment to empirically test the formulations.Math lacks the use of the Scientific method, lacks empirical testing, lacks a description of the natural world, lacks describing the natural world in natural terms.Hence Math is not Science.So mathematical truths are not discerned by Science. And Scientism is false.
 Posts: 5,466 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/5/2016 3:42:53 AMPosted: 2 years agoAt 4/5/2016 2:59:53 AM, Mhykiel wrote:In many ways, math is closely related to science. Mathematics is a scholarly domain, and so the mathematical community works as the scientific community does " mathematicians build on each other's work and behave in ways that push the discipline forward. This progress contributes to scientific breakthroughs. Mathematics is such a useful tool that science could make few advances without it. However, math and standard sciences, like biology, physics, and chemistry, are distinct in at least one way: how ideas are tested and accepted based on evidence. Math doesn't rely on testing ideas against evidence from the natural world in the same way that other sciences do. Mathematical ideas are often accepted based on deductive proofs, while ideas in other sciences are generally accepted based on the accumulation of many different observations supporting the idea.Does math deal with or aim to explain the natural world? Math works with numbers. Numbers are abstractions, they are conceptions. Some think that numbers are real in only how they describe real entities. But there are formulas that utilize numbers that are imaginary and produce real world predictions. There are mathematical entities with no analogy in the "real" world.Is math an inherent part of how the universe works, or is it a language we've constructed to help us describe that universe? There have been some philosophical views that have gone as far as state everything is math. But mathematicians will often work on ideas and formulas in number theory and invariant, only later to be used by Natural Scientist to describe what they are seeing. We can see this with the math used in string theory. The math was created to describe mathematical relationships and properties. It was not even known how it related to anything in the real world.Does Math conduct testing of hypothesis? Math proofs are deductive proofs. They don't rely on inductive hypothesis testing. Take the conception of infinite sets in Math. There is no real world experiment to empirically test the formulations.Math lacks the use of the Scientific method, lacks empirical testing, lacks a description of the natural world, lacks describing the natural world in natural terms.Hence Math is not Science.So mathematical truths are not discerned by Science. And Scientism is false.How do you tell use maths to calculate the radius of a circle without empirically validating the value of Pi.Does any maths concerning the radius of a circle, or volume of a sphere, or sinusoidal period change if Pi = 4?The answers are, obviously, no you can't; and of course.Maths is a logical framework that has little value unless you can tie it to reality; because the "truth" it reveals is only true within the logical framework it consists of.Maths is only knowledge because it can be empirically validated as applying to reality.If you can't validate it as applying to reality; it wouldn't be knowledge about reality.
 Posts: 777 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/5/2016 1:01:02 PMPosted: 2 years agoArithmaticology.
 Posts: 2,762 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/5/2016 1:16:49 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 4/5/2016 2:59:53 AM, Mhykiel wrote:And Scientism is false.I agree with you on everything else, but I have to say refuting scientism using maths is comparing apples to oranges. Mathematical truth is about relative truth within a certain axiomatic system; science aims to be as close to the absolute truth about the world as possible. They have different goals; you can't really compare in such a manner.I think it is well established that the only reason aliens come to earth is to slice up cows and examine inside peoples' bottoms. Unless you are a cow or suffer haemerrhoids I don't think there is anything to worry about from aliens. - keithprosser Don't be a stat cynic: http://www.debate.org... Response to conservative views on deforestation: http://www.debate.org... Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
 Posts: 5,200 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/5/2016 2:19:27 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 4/5/2016 2:59:53 AM, Mhykiel wrote:In many ways, math is closely related to science. Mathematics is a scholarly domain, and so the mathematical community works as the scientific community does " mathematicians build on each other's work and behave in ways that push the discipline forward. This progress contributes to scientific breakthroughs. Mathematics is such a useful tool that science could make few advances without it. However, math and standard sciences, like biology, physics, and chemistry, are distinct in at least one way: how ideas are tested and accepted based on evidence. Math doesn't rely on testing ideas against evidence from the natural world in the same way that other sciences do. Mathematical ideas are often accepted based on deductive proofs, while ideas in other sciences are generally accepted based on the accumulation of many different observations supporting the idea.Does math deal with or aim to explain the natural world? Math works with numbers. Numbers are abstractions, they are conceptions. Some think that numbers are real in only how they describe real entities. But there are formulas that utilize numbers that are imaginary and produce real world predictions. There are mathematical entities with no analogy in the "real" world.Is math an inherent part of how the universe works, or is it a language we've constructed to help us describe that universe? There have been some philosophical views that have gone as far as state everything is math. But mathematicians will often work on ideas and formulas in number theory and invariant, only later to be used by Natural Scientist to describe what they are seeing. We can see this with the math used in string theory. The math was created to describe mathematical relationships and properties. It was not even known how it related to anything in the real world.Does Math conduct testing of hypothesis? Math proofs are deductive proofs. They don't rely on inductive hypothesis testing. Take the conception of infinite sets in Math. There is no real world experiment to empirically test the formulations.Math lacks the use of the Scientific method, lacks empirical testing, lacks a description of the natural world, lacks describing the natural world in natural terms.Hence Math is not Science.So mathematical truths are not discerned by Science. And Scientism is false.Lol, I like how you added that last, "And Scientism is false". Not certain where that came from or how relates. And lamas are the best animal ever.