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The status quo is always right

Akhenaten
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4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Most people on this website believe that what has gone before is always better and more trustworthy than what can happen in the future. I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them. These may include germ theory, vaccination and the concept of the virus. These are all bogus theories which may make some people rich, but they also cause much death and injury to the living.
Leugen9001
Posts: 495
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4/22/2016 11:32:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
Most people on this website believe that what has gone before is always better and more trustworthy than what can happen in the future. I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them. These may include germ theory, vaccination and the concept of the virus. These are all bogus theories which may make some people rich, but they also cause much death and injury to the living.

We aren't saying that everything we currently believe to be right is correct; the scientific method means that scientific theories have to change given new evidence. However, the fact that theories need to change with new evidence does not excuse making changes to science without new evidence. Your theory could replace germ theory, but only if you actually provided evidence and tested it.
:) nac
Akhenaten
Posts: 854
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4/23/2016 12:47:51 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 11:32:50 PM, Leugen9001 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
Most people on this website believe that what has gone before is always better and more trustworthy than what can happen in the future. I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them. These may include germ theory, vaccination and the concept of the virus. These are all bogus theories which may make some people rich, but they also cause much death and injury to the living.

We aren't saying that everything we currently believe to be right is correct; the scientific method means that scientific theories have to change given new evidence. However, the fact that theories need to change with new evidence does not excuse making changes to science without new evidence. Your theory could replace germ theory, but only if you actually provided evidence and tested it.

Really! Germ theory, vaccination and viruses theory, have all been accepted without any testing what-so-ever. This must be true because people still get sick after being vaccinated. If you are going to refute this statement. Please provide experiments which have proven that germ theory is valid. Good luck!
mc9
Posts: 1,033
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4/23/2016 1:51:13 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 12:47:51 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/22/2016 11:32:50 PM, Leugen9001 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
Most people on this website believe that what has gone before is always better and more trustworthy than what can happen in the future. I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them. These may include germ theory, vaccination and the concept of the virus. These are all bogus theories which may make some people rich, but they also cause much death and injury to the living.

We aren't saying that everything we currently believe to be right is correct; the scientific method means that scientific theories have to change given new evidence. However, the fact that theories need to change with new evidence does not excuse making changes to science without new evidence. Your theory could replace germ theory, but only if you actually provided evidence and tested it.

Really! Germ theory, vaccination and viruses theory, have all been accepted without any testing what-so-ever. This must be true because people still get sick after being vaccinated. If you are going to refute this statement. Please provide experiments which have proven that germ theory is valid. Good luck!

Less people get sick after vaccines, though they don't always work, but an example is smallpox being practically erased through human intervention.
Akhenaten
Posts: 854
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4/23/2016 1:57:22 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 1:51:13 AM, mc9 wrote:

Really! Germ theory, vaccination and viruses theory, have all been accepted without any testing what-so-ever. This must be true because people still get sick after being vaccinated. If you are going to refute this statement. Please provide experiments which have proven that germ theory is valid. Good luck!

Less people get sick after vaccines, though they don't always work, but an example is smallpox being practically erased through human intervention.

Volcanologists have already explained how epidemics occur. It has nothing to do with viruses or germs.

http://www.theguardian.com...
mc9
Posts: 1,033
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4/23/2016 2:02:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 1:57:22 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 1:51:13 AM, mc9 wrote:

Really! Germ theory, vaccination and viruses theory, have all been accepted without any testing what-so-ever. This must be true because people still get sick after being vaccinated. If you are going to refute this statement. Please provide experiments which have proven that germ theory is valid. Good luck!

Less people get sick after vaccines, though they don't always work, but an example is smallpox being practically erased through human intervention.

Volcanologists have already explained how epidemics occur. It has nothing to do with viruses or germs.

http://www.theguardian.com...

Good article, however it did not refute my point
Akhenaten
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4/23/2016 2:17:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:02:59 AM, mc9 wrote:
edieval-volcano-disaster-london-graves

Good article, however it did not refute my point

Sorry, your right! Human intervention has put an end to small pox. Its called nutrition, sanitation, vitamins and fresh water. It has nothing to do with vaccination. Thanks for reminding me!
mc9
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4/23/2016 2:23:17 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:17:52 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:02:59 AM, mc9 wrote:
edieval-volcano-disaster-london-graves

Good article, however it did not refute my point

Sorry, your right! Human intervention has put an end to small pox. Its called nutrition, sanitation, vitamins and fresh water. It has nothing to do with vaccination. Thanks for reminding me!

And again No proof

Also explain how the deaths of patients powered when people accepted germ theory and started boiling their doctor clothes
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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4/23/2016 2:56:35 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Achen, I disagree with your stance on germ theory, vaccinations and the concept of the viruses; but that's fine, you can think as you like. But I will agree that the status quo is not necessarily always right. A few hundred years ago the universal thought was the Earth was flat until proved otherwise. There are dozens of examples of the like over time have been proved wrong. I don't believe the scientific community as a whole is out to just to make a buck. There are a few, like the Monsanto types and Petroleum groups that skew findings to their advantage; they are the exception not the rule. If you thinks about how far we have come in the way of longevity in just the last 100 years, scientist have done much to improve our health and better our way of life.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/23/2016 7:41:48 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them.
Akh, it seems to me much harder for a worldwide conspiracy to occur of millions of professionals from hundreds of jurisdictions and thousands of educational institutions, all being tacitly silent on a matter that an Internet ignoramus can know for certain using nothing more than a web-search....

...than for an ignoramus or two terrified of the complexity of their own bodies, to wish the world were simpler and kinder, be suspicious of science they don't understand, and be neither humble enough to admit their ignorance, nor fair enough to know when they're wrong.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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4/23/2016 8:34:08 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
Most people on this website believe that what has gone before is always better and more trustworthy than what can happen in the future. I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them. These may include germ theory, vaccination and the concept of the virus. These are all bogus theories which may make some people rich, but they also cause much death and injury to the living.

No, it just means they disagree with you.
Meh!
Akhenaten
Posts: 854
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4/23/2016 1:02:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:23:17 AM, mc9 wrote:

And again No proof

Also explain how the deaths of patients powered when people accepted germ theory and started boiling their doctor clothes

"Boiling their doctor clothes"? ????????????? Never heard of this?
Akhenaten
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4/23/2016 1:14:07 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 7:41:48 AM, RuvDraba wrote:

Akh, it seems to me much harder for a worldwide conspiracy to occur of millions of professionals from hundreds of jurisdictions and thousands of educational institutions, all being tacitly silent on a matter that an Internet ignoramus can know for certain using nothing more than a web-search....

Yes, it is amazing isn't it. But there are millions of people who don't believe in germ theory as well. Think of all the naturopaths and their patients. Not to mention Prince Charles and the Queen who would never go to an allopathic doctor. lol No wonder she has lived to 90 years of age and still going strong!

Forget about the facts Ruv, they get in the way of a good whinge. Just keep things open and don't get tied down with technical details or you might get snagged on logic. Good strategy for winning a debate, but very bad outcome for humanity. But it doesn't matter if millions of people die because of germ theory, as long as Ruv wins the argument is all that matters, right!
Leugen9001
Posts: 495
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4/23/2016 2:11:25 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
Most people on this website believe that what has gone before is always better and more trustworthy than what can happen in the future. I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them. These may include germ theory, vaccination and the concept of the virus. These are all bogus theories which may make some people rich, but they also cause much death and injury to the living.

Taking up the mantle of Galuleo doesn't just require you to be criticized by the establishment. It also requires you to be right.

And right now, you haven't proven your theory's correctness with anything other than assertions and citations of quacks and misused sources.
:) nac
Leugen9001
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4/23/2016 2:12:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 1:14:07 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
Forget about the facts Ruv, they get in the way of a good whinge. Just keep things open and don't get tied down with technical details or you might get snagged on logic. Good strategy for winning a debate, but very bad outcome for humanity. But it doesn't matter if millions of people die because of germ theory, as long as Ruv wins the argument is all that matters, right!

Forget about the facts Akh, they get in the way of a good whinge. Just keep things open and don't get tied down with facts and evidence or you might get snagged on logic. Good strategy for winning a debate, but very bad outcome for humanity. But it doesn't matter if millions of people die because of quackery, as long as Akh wins the argument is all that matters, right!
:) nac
Akhenaten
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4/23/2016 2:17:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:12:58 PM, Leugen9001 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 1:14:07 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
Forget about the facts Ruv, they get in the way of a good whinge. Just keep things open and don't get tied down with technical details or you might get snagged on logic. Good strategy for winning a debate, but very bad outcome for humanity. But it doesn't matter if millions of people die because of germ theory, as long as Ruv wins the argument is all that matters, right!

Forget about the facts Akh, they get in the way of a good whinge. Just keep things open and don't get tied down with facts and evidence or you might get snagged on logic. Good strategy for winning a debate, but very bad outcome for humanity. But it doesn't matter if millions of people die because of quackery, as long as Akh wins the argument is all that matters, right!

Mimicry is the highest form of flattery!
Leugen9001
Posts: 495
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4/23/2016 2:29:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:17:32 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:12:58 PM, Leugen9001 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 1:14:07 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
Forget about the facts Ruv, they get in the way of a good whinge. Just keep things open and don't get tied down with technical details or you might get snagged on logic. Good strategy for winning a debate, but very bad outcome for humanity. But it doesn't matter if millions of people die because of germ theory, as long as Ruv wins the argument is all that matters, right!

Forget about the facts Akh, they get in the way of a good whinge. Just keep things open and don't get tied down with facts and evidence or you might get snagged on logic. Good strategy for winning a debate, but very bad outcome for humanity. But it doesn't matter if millions of people die because of quackery, as long as Akh wins the argument is all that matters, right!

Mimicry is the highest form of flattery!

Why do you oppose my crackpot theory, huh?
:) nac
Akhenaten
Posts: 854
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4/23/2016 2:50:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:56:35 AM, Peepette wrote:
Achen, I disagree with your stance on germ theory, vaccinations and the concept of the viruses; but that's fine, you can think as you like. But I will agree that the status quo is not necessarily always right. A few hundred years ago the universal thought was the Earth was flat until proved otherwise. There are dozens of examples of the like over time have been proved wrong. I don't believe the scientific community as a whole is out to just to make a buck. There are a few, like the Monsanto types and Petroleum groups that skew findings to their advantage; they are the exception not the rule. If you thinks about how far we have come in the way of longevity in just the last 100 years, scientist have done much to improve our health and better our way of life.

The life span of humans is only just coming back to normal after being below average for the last 5,000 years due to the agricultural revolution. Living in cities has been very bad for human longevity. The food quality wasn't as good as the country life. Grain food, sugar and dairy products are unnatural for humans and has caused a lot of disease and early death.
famousdebater
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4/23/2016 2:56:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
Most people on this website believe that what has gone before is always better and more trustworthy than what can happen in the future. I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them. These may include germ theory, vaccination and the concept of the virus. These are all bogus theories which may make some people rich, but they also cause much death and injury to the living.

The status quo isn't always right. That would be massively contradictory, especially when comparing two countries with conflicting rules. Various countries have abolished guns and many have implemented gun rights. Both had conflicting status quos but which one was right. They cannot both be right as that would lead to a contradiction.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
Akhenaten
Posts: 854
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4/23/2016 3:00:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:56:11 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
Most people on this website believe that what has gone before is always better and more trustworthy than what can happen in the future. I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them. These may include germ theory, vaccination and the concept of the virus. These are all bogus theories which may make some people rich, but they also cause much death and injury to the living.

The status quo isn't always right. That would be massively contradictory, especially when comparing two countries with conflicting rules. Various countries have abolished guns and many have implemented gun rights. Both had conflicting status quos but which one was right. They cannot both be right as that would lead to a contradiction.

Right planet, but wrong country! lol
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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4/23/2016 3:16:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:50:38 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:56:35 AM, Peepette wrote:
Achen, I disagree with your stance on germ theory, vaccinations and the concept of the viruses; but that's fine, you can think as you like. But I will agree that the status quo is not necessarily always right. A few hundred years ago the universal thought was the Earth was flat until proved otherwise. There are dozens of examples of the like over time have been proved wrong. I don't believe the scientific community as a whole is out to just to make a buck. There are a few, like the Monsanto types and Petroleum groups that skew findings to their advantage; they are the exception not the rule. If you thinks about how far we have come in the way of longevity in just the last 100 years, scientist have done much to improve our health and better our way of life.

The life span of humans is only just coming back to normal after being below average for the last 5,000 years due to the agricultural revolution. Living in cities has been very bad for human longevity. The food quality wasn't as good as the country life. Grain food, sugar and dairy products are unnatural for humans and has caused a lot of disease and early death.

Just a few hundred years ago a person would be lucky to see a 40th birthday. It was a time when an infected cut could kill you. Remember the bubonic plague? It killed a third of the European population, that was a nasty bacteria. Ancient man, you know the hunter gatherers who ate off the land; life span was about 30. I have to thank science and medicine in keeping my own father with me at 88 years old. https://www.verywell.com...
mc9
Posts: 1,033
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4/23/2016 3:39:43 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 1:02:29 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:23:17 AM, mc9 wrote:

And again No proof

Also explain how the deaths of patients powered when people accepted germ theory and started boiling their doctor clothes


"Boiling their doctor clothes"? ????????????? Never heard of this?

have you read the book Puineas Gage?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/23/2016 8:50:28 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 1:14:07 PM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 7:41:48 AM, RuvDraba wrote:

Akh, it seems to me much harder for a worldwide conspiracy to occur of millions of professionals from hundreds of jurisdictions and thousands of educational institutions, all being tacitly silent on a matter that an Internet ignoramus can know for certain using nothing more than a web-search....

Yes, it is amazing isn't it. But there are millions of people who don't believe in germ theory as well. Think of all the naturopaths and their patients. Not to mention Prince Charles and the Queen who would never go to an allopathic doctor. lol No wonder she has lived to 90 years of age and still going strong!

Forget about the facts Ruv, they get in the way of a good whinge. Just keep things open and don't get tied down with technical details or you might get snagged on logic. Good strategy for winning a debate, but very bad outcome for humanity. But it doesn't matter if millions of people die because of germ theory, as long as Ruv wins the argument is all that matters, right!

This post, and its key questions of scientific legitimacy of investigations, and the ethics of announcing findings are addressed in my response to another Akh post in another thread: [http://www.debate.org...].
Ramshutu
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4/23/2016 9:34:12 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:03:17 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
Most people on this website believe that what has gone before is always better and more trustworthy than what can happen in the future. I believe that a lot of current theories are bogus and only exist because unscrupulous individuals and organizations have found a way of making money out of them. These may include germ theory, vaccination and the concept of the virus. These are all bogus theories which may make some people rich, but they also cause much death and injury to the living.

Could you be wrong in everything you "believe"?

If so, how would you be able to tell?
Akhenaten
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4/24/2016 12:48:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:16:49 PM, Peepette wrote:


Just a few hundred years ago a person would be lucky to see a 40th birthday. It was a time when an infected cut could kill you. Remember the bubonic plague? It killed a third of the European population, that was a nasty bacteria. Ancient man, you know the hunter gatherers who ate off the land; life span was about 30. I have to thank science and medicine in keeping my own father with me at 88 years old. https://www.verywell.com...

When captain cook visited Australia in 1770 the aborigines were doing much better than the Europeans. Islanders were living without any disease and living to late 80's and 90's. Aborigines were hunter gathers. Infection doesn't kill you. Its a lack of vitamins from eating processed foods. Bubonic plague was a result of volcanic activity which caused crop failure.

http://www.theguardian.com...
Akhenaten
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4/24/2016 1:27:03 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 9:34:12 PM, Ramshutu wrote:

Could you be wrong in everything you "believe"?

If so, how would you be able to tell?

If Ramshutu questioned what I believed in a very rude and crude manner. Then I would know that I must be on the right track! lol
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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4/24/2016 1:59:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 12:48:37 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:16:49 PM, Peepette wrote:


Just a few hundred years ago a person would be lucky to see a 40th birthday. It was a time when an infected cut could kill you. Remember the bubonic plague? It killed a third of the European population, that was a nasty bacteria. Ancient man, you know the hunter gatherers who ate off the land; life span was about 30. I have to thank science and medicine in keeping my own father with me at 88 years old. https://www.verywell.com...

When captain cook visited Australia in 1770 the aborigines were doing much better than the Europeans. Islanders were living without any disease and living to late 80's and 90's. Aborigines were hunter gathers. Infection doesn't kill you. Its a lack of vitamins from eating processed foods. Bubonic plague was a result of volcanic activity which caused crop failure.

http://www.theguardian.com...

You're can think whatever you like but the plaque occurred in China in the 1330's, spread through Asia then Europe beginning in Italy. And I highly doubt that the mean age of aborigines was 80 or 90.
Akhenaten
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4/24/2016 2:25:08 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 1:59:15 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:48:37 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:16:49 PM, Peepette wrote:


Just a few hundred years ago a person would be lucky to see a 40th birthday. It was a time when an infected cut could kill you. Remember the bubonic plague? It killed a third of the European population, that was a nasty bacteria. Ancient man, you know the hunter gatherers who ate off the land; life span was about 30. I have to thank science and medicine in keeping my own father with me at 88 years old. https://www.verywell.com...

When captain cook visited Australia in 1770 the aborigines were doing much better than the Europeans. Islanders were living without any disease and living to late 80's and 90's. Aborigines were hunter gathers. Infection doesn't kill you. Its a lack of vitamins from eating processed foods. Bubonic plague was a result of volcanic activity which caused crop failure.

http://www.theguardian.com...

You're can think whatever you like but the plaque occurred in China in the 1330's, spread through Asia then Europe beginning in Italy. And I highly doubt that the mean age of aborigines was 80 or 90.

The plague was just following the ash plume which was spreading from Italy. What proof do you have that the plague started in China?

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov...
Ramshutu
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4/24/2016 3:23:46 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 1:27:03 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 9:34:12 PM, Ramshutu wrote:

Could you be wrong in everything you "believe"?

If so, how would you be able to tell?

If Ramshutu questioned what I believed in a very rude and crude manner. Then I would know that I must be on the right track! lol

It was a very simple question, asked succinctly, with no rudeness, or crudeness, or malcontent, name calling, or otherwise calling into question either your honesty or intelligence:

Could you be wrong.

If so, how would you be able to tell.
Akhenaten
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4/24/2016 4:18:56 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 3:23:46 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 4/24/2016 1:27:03 AM, Akhenaten wrote:
At 4/23/2016 9:34:12 PM, Ramshutu wrote:

Could you be wrong in everything you "believe"?

If so, how would you be able to tell?

If Ramshutu questioned what I believed in a very rude and crude manner. Then I would know that I must be on the right track! lol

It was a very simple question, asked succinctly, with no rudeness, or crudeness, or malcontent, name calling, or otherwise calling into question either your honesty or intelligence:

Could you be wrong.

If so, how would you be able to tell.

if you don't know how to recognize your own rudeness, then, you have the problem, not me.