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Evolution disproves the Bible, not god?

imperialchimp
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4/28/2016 3:59:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I'm curious to know what people think of this.
Evolution never said anything about how life started. It only said we evolved from a common ancestor. Wouldn't it be possible if a "god" created life (unless of course god was just nature). Artificial life has already been created (see linked below). So wouldn't it be possible for a god (could even be some alien) to make a living organism and that organism eventually evolves through mutations.

http://www.bbc.com...
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

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user13579
Posts: 822
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4/28/2016 4:15:54 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:59:15 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
I'm curious to know what people think of this.
Evolution never said anything about how life started. It only said we evolved from a common ancestor. Wouldn't it be possible if a "god" created life (unless of course god was just nature). Artificial life has already been created (see linked below). So wouldn't it be possible for a god (could even be some alien) to make a living organism and that organism eventually evolves through mutations.

http://www.bbc.com...

Who made your god then.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
imperialchimp
Posts: 229
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4/28/2016 4:30:01 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Who made your god then.
Which one: nature, an alien, or the god people usually think of.
-An alien can be affected by evolution. It could have also made by another being/god.
-Obviously nature can't be made.
-God (people usually think of could have been made by another god or even been affected by evolution..
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-
user13579
Posts: 822
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4/28/2016 4:30:50 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Alien/god doesn't actually answer the question at all. It just passes the buck.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
imperialchimp
Posts: 229
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4/28/2016 4:42:10 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 4:30:50 AM, user13579 wrote:
Alien/god doesn't actually answer the question at all. It just passes the buck.

True, but then how would you answer that question?
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-
user13579
Posts: 822
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4/28/2016 4:46:39 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 4:42:10 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
At 4/28/2016 4:30:50 AM, user13579 wrote:
Alien/god doesn't actually answer the question at all. It just passes the buck.

True, but then how would you answer that question?

By doing actual science. By observing the universe and making inferences, called theories, that explain those observations and predict future observations. Not by making up fairy tales with no evidence that don't actually explain anything.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
imperialchimp
Posts: 229
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4/28/2016 5:27:30 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
By doing actual science. By observing the universe and making inferences, called theories, that explain those observations and predict future observations. Not by making up fairy tales with no evidence that don't actually explain anything.

It appears to me that you think I'm religious (i'm not). I only asked the question because I don't see how evolution disproves the idea of a creator.

Yeah I know the Bible is complete BS. A god that controls everything doesn't make sense. So god that people normally think of might be out of the question.

The idea that life (at least on Earth) was created is not some stupid "fairy tail". In fact, it already happened (referring to article).

Basically, there is no such thing as a beginning of everything altogether. What happened before the Big Bang? What happened before god? We should all agree that something caused something. But with this logic, if there was a beginning there would be nothing. Things don't just pop out of nowhere. So yes, my explanation does pass the buck but it is a logical explanation (maybe without the god though). There could always be a creator whether it is nature itself or just a being.

It is possible for aliens to exist, but i'm not saying they do exist. Saying that they couldn't is like saying intelligent life can't exist.
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-
user13579
Posts: 822
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4/28/2016 5:33:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 5:27:30 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
By doing actual science. By observing the universe and making inferences, called theories, that explain those observations and predict future observations. Not by making up fairy tales with no evidence that don't actually explain anything.

It appears to me that you think I'm religious (i'm not). I only asked the question because I don't see how evolution disproves the idea of a creator.

Nothing disproves the idea of a "creator". It's unfalsifiable! Because "creator works in mysterious ways!"

Nothing disproves an invisible unicorn either, but why should I even care about something so stupid?

Nothing disproves "Earth is always flat". If it looks like it's not flat, that could be because we're not on Earth!
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/28/2016 5:46:34 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:59:15 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
I'm curious to know what people think of this.
Wouldn't it be possible for a god (could even be some alien) to make a living organism and that organism eventually evolves through mutations.
Yes. Evolution does not imply abiogenesis (the production of life through common organic chemical reactions) -- that conjecture is still being explored.

Moreover, no science contradicts Deism, or certain kinds of non-traditional theism anyway. A sufficiently wise being could conceivably create the universe for unspecified purposes knowing it would eventually produce life.

Moreover, most monotheists are quite happy to believe in both evolution and their own (amended) versions of theism. It's only certain scriptural fundamentalists (e.g. fundamentalist Evangelicals, and Jehova's Witnesses) who tend to object.

However, with that said, science has done untold damage to traditional scriptural and clerical authorities over the last four centuries. When they can't suppress such information outright, clergy tend to respond to such damage through apologetics -- that is, reinterpreting their traditions as though ancient truths buried in the canon have newly been revealed. Nonetheless, adherents have grown increasingly skeptical about that practice, since it can look (very much) like the fancy footwork of charlatans hiding their vanity, ignorance and error. :D
imperialchimp
Posts: 229
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4/28/2016 6:04:13 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Nothing disproves the idea of a "creator". It's unfalsifiable! Because "creator works in mysterious ways!"

Nothing disproves an invisible unicorn either, but why should I even care about something so stupid?

Nothing disproves "Earth is always flat". If it looks like it's not flat, that could be because we're not on Earth!

A creator can be scientifically proven (theories). My observation: someone has already created a life form (referring to article). The scientists that created artificial life are technically creators. A creator would make sense.

No one has ever seen or observed an invisible unicorn. It can't be proven possible while the possibility of a creator can (its been observed).

We refer to Earth as the planet we live on. Why wouldn't we be on Earth? Saying that we are not on a planet we live on makes absolutely no sense. If Earth doesn't look like it's flat, then Earth isn't flat.
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-
imperialchimp
Posts: 229
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4/28/2016 6:12:11 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Yes. Evolution does not imply abiogenesis (the production of life through common organic chemical reactions) -- that conjecture is still being explored.

Moreover, no science contradicts Deism, or certain kinds of non-traditional theism anyway. A sufficiently wise being could conceivably create the universe for unspecified purposes knowing it would eventually produce life.

Moreover, most monotheists are quite happy to believe in both evolution and their own (amended) versions of theism. It's only certain scriptural fundamentalists (e.g. fundamentalist Evangelicals, and Jehova's Witnesses) who tend to object.

However, with that said, science has done untold damage to traditional scriptural and clerical authorities over the last four centuries. When they can't suppress such information outright, clergy tend to respond to such damage through apologetics -- that is, reinterpreting their traditions as though ancient truths buried in the canon have newly been revealed. Nonetheless, adherents have grown increasingly skeptical about that practice, since it can look (very much) like the fancy footwork of charlatans hiding their vanity, ignorance and error. :D

Good point. I guess people are just intolerant.
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-
user13579
Posts: 822
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4/28/2016 6:17:05 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 6:04:13 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
A creator can be scientifically proven (theories). My observation: someone has already created a life form (referring to article). The scientists that created artificial life are technically creators. A creator would make sense.

No scientific theory can ever be "proven" true! Scientific theories can only be proven false, never true. Besides, who created the creator?

No one has ever seen or observed an invisible unicorn. It can't be proven possible while the possibility of a creator can (its been observed).

Being possible doesn't make something worthy of scientific investigation. There has to be some conceivable future evidence that would disprove it.

We refer to Earth as the planet we live on. Why wouldn't we be on Earth? Saying that we are not on a planet we live on makes absolutely no sense. If Earth doesn't look like it's flat, then Earth isn't flat.

Because maybe it just looks like we're on Earth, but we're actually in an inter-dimensional portal of some kind (the "official" explanation for centuries). Flat Earth theory is actually unfalsifiable (not science, but pseudoscience), just like "god".
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
imperialchimp
Posts: 229
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4/28/2016 6:41:43 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
No scientific theory can ever be "proven" true! Scientific theories can only be proven false, never true. Besides, who created the creator?

Yea I just caught the proven thing (it still can be supported).
Who created the creator? Didn't I already answer this? Either nature creates a creator or another creator creates a creator. It will keep going on an on. Don't expect a beginning to all of this because logically, nature has no beginning.

Being possible doesn't make something worthy of scientific investigation. There has to be some conceivable future evidence that would disprove it.

Wouldn't that mean that the possibility of a Big Bang isn't worthy of scientific investigation. It is possible. Future evidence can always disprove it. NOTHING in science is a fact (math contains facts).

Because maybe it just looks like we're on Earth, but we're actually in an inter-dimensional portal of some kind (the "official" explanation for centuries). Flat Earth theory is actually unfalsifiable (not science, but pseudoscience), just like "god".

People live on Earth because it is another way of saying home. It looks like we're in my home makes no sense. Home doesn't = house. You are using Earth as "a house", not home.
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-
user13579
Posts: 822
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4/28/2016 6:48:10 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 6:41:43 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
No scientific theory can ever be "proven" true! Scientific theories can only be proven false, never true. Besides, who created the creator?

Yea I just caught the proven thing (it still can be supported).
Who created the creator? Didn't I already answer this? Either nature creates a creator or another creator creates a creator. It will keep going on an on. Don't expect a beginning to all of this because logically, nature has no beginning.


Being possible doesn't make something worthy of scientific investigation. There has to be some conceivable future evidence that would disprove it.

Wouldn't that mean that the possibility of a Big Bang isn't worthy of scientific investigation. It is possible. Future evidence can always disprove it. NOTHING in science is a fact (math contains facts).
The Big Bang is possible, but it can also be proven false! That's the difference between the Big Bang, and "god". Just being "possible" isn't enough to be scientific. "God" can never be proven false, because "god works in mysterious ways, god violates logic". Math doesn't contain facts, math contains conclusions that logically follow from axioms defined to be true. You can draw different conclusions from different axioms!

Because maybe it just looks like we're on Earth, but we're actually in an inter-dimensional portal of some kind (the "official" explanation for centuries). Flat Earth theory is actually unfalsifiable (not science, but pseudoscience), just like "god".

People live on Earth because it is another way of saying home. It looks like we're in my home makes no sense. Home doesn't = house. You are using Earth as "a house", not home.

The inter-dimensional portal just makes it look spherical when it's really flat. Or how about this, "Earth is flat and Earth works in mysterious ways". Unfalsifiable!
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
imperialchimp
Posts: 229
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4/28/2016 7:06:34 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
The Big Bang is possible, but it can also be proven false! That's the difference between the Big Bang, and "god". Just being "possible" isn't enough to be scientific. "God" can never be proven false, because "god works in mysterious ways, god violates logic". Math doesn't contain facts, math contains conclusions that logically follow from axioms defined to be true. You can draw different conclusions from different axioms!

I can't disagree with what you said. I am no longer talking about god but just a creator who can simply be like a human or just nature itself. This can be proven false. Humans don't just work in mysterious ways (it might also apply to nature).
I guess I wrong about math.

The inter-dimensional portal just makes it look spherical when it's really flat. Or how about this, "Earth is flat and Earth works in mysterious ways". Unfalsifiable!

I got your message with unfalsifiable concepts. I guess it gets illogical when people make things unfalsifiable and use it as an argument.
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-
user13579
Posts: 822
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4/28/2016 7:15:19 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 7:06:34 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
I can't disagree with what you said. I am no longer talking about god but just a creator who can simply be like a human or just nature itself. This can be proven false. Humans don't just work in mysterious ways (it might also apply to nature).
Isn't that just abiogenesis?

I guess I wrong about math.
2+2=4 is actually not a fact. It's a conditionally true statement that follows from certain axioms of arithmetic that are just assumed to be true. Euclidean geometry isn't a fact, it's a set of conclusions that follow from Euclid's postulates. You can use different postulates and derive different geometries.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
imperialchimp
Posts: 229
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4/28/2016 7:17:39 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 7:15:19 AM, user13579 wrote:
At 4/28/2016 7:06:34 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
I can't disagree with what you said. I am no longer talking about god but just a creator who can simply be like a human or just nature itself. This can be proven false. Humans don't just work in mysterious ways (it might also apply to nature).
Isn't that just abiogenesis?

Yes. Except maybe not the human part.
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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4/30/2016 3:07:57 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:59:15 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
I'm curious to know what people think of this.
Evolution never said anything about how life started. It only said we evolved from a common ancestor. Wouldn't it be possible if a "god" created life (unless of course god was just nature). Artificial life has already been created (see linked below). So wouldn't it be possible for a god (could even be some alien) to make a living organism and that organism eventually evolves through mutations.

Of course it would be possible. Why dpes that matter?
distraff
Posts: 1,001
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4/30/2016 4:26:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:59:15 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
I'm curious to know what people think of this.
Evolution never said anything about how life started. It only said we evolved from a common ancestor. Wouldn't it be possible if a "god" created life (unless of course god was just nature). Artificial life has already been created (see linked below). So wouldn't it be possible for a god (could even be some alien) to make a living organism and that organism eventually evolves through mutations.

http://www.bbc.com...

It certainly is possible. It is also possible that magical elves inserted mutations into apes that created the human race. It is also possible that big-foot evolved from aliens who crash-landed on earth.
janesix
Posts: 3,437
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4/30/2016 7:35:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 3:59:15 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
I'm curious to know what people think of this.
Evolution never said anything about how life started. It only said we evolved from a common ancestor. Wouldn't it be possible if a "god" created life (unless of course god was just nature). Artificial life has already been created (see linked below). So wouldn't it be possible for a god (could even be some alien) to make a living organism and that organism eventually evolves through mutations.

http://www.bbc.com...

No artificial life was created. They just stuck different parts of different living creatures together.Life was already there.
imperialchimp
Posts: 229
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5/1/2016 1:31:26 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/30/2016 7:35:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:59:15 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
I'm curious to know what people think of this.
Evolution never said anything about how life started. It only said we evolved from a common ancestor. Wouldn't it be possible if a "god" created life (unless of course god was just nature). Artificial life has already been created (see linked below). So wouldn't it be possible for a god (could even be some alien) to make a living organism and that organism eventually evolves through mutations.

http://www.bbc.com...

No artificial life was created. They just stuck different parts of different living creatures together.Life was already there.

keep in mind that the "creator" didn't have to be a god. If there was one, more than likely that creator was a life form himself. i'm talking about a creator of organisms on earth, not the universe. So, yes there was already life.
BUT "They just stuck different parts of different living creatures together" then they would have made another organism.
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-
imperialchimp
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5/1/2016 1:34:41 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/30/2016 4:26:31 PM, distraff wrote:
At 4/28/2016 3:59:15 AM, imperialchimp wrote:
I'm curious to know what people think of this.
Evolution never said anything about how life started. It only said we evolved from a common ancestor. Wouldn't it be possible if a "god" created life (unless of course god was just nature). Artificial life has already been created (see linked below). So wouldn't it be possible for a god (could even be some alien) to make a living organism and that organism eventually evolves through mutations.

http://www.bbc.com...

It certainly is possible. It is also possible that magical elves inserted mutations into apes that created the human race. It is also possible that big-foot evolved from aliens who crash-landed on earth.

Of course magical elves are possible. Because they work in mysterious and magical ways (credit to user13579).
Ape Lives Matter (ALM)

What if I were to tell you that humans have false logic? Prepare for confusion.

-.-- --- ..- / ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . -.. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.-