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Evolution questions

someloser
Posts: 1,377
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5/3/2016 8:19:58 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
There are approximately 1.2 billion animal species and 300,000 plant species hitherto known. Going by the U.S. Geological Survey 1997 on the age of the earth (estimated to be 4.54 billion years), what should be the average rate of speciation?

How many mutations, on average, are required per speciation?

What is the average, observed mutation rate?
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roun12
Posts: 177
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5/3/2016 12:29:34 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 8:19:58 AM, someloser wrote:
There are approximately 1.2 billion animal species and 300,000 plant species hitherto known. Going by the U.S. Geological Survey 1997 on the age of the earth (estimated to be 4.54 billion years), what should be the average rate of speciation?
About 1 new species every 4 years. If you take into account that the first life start 3.8 billion years ago that changes to about 1 new species every 3 years.

How many mutations, on average, are required per speciation?
IDK

What is the average, observed mutation rate?
That tends to vary between different species so a single number is extremely difficult to calculate.
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distraff
Posts: 999
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5/3/2016 1:00:08 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 8:19:58 AM, someloser wrote:
There are approximately 1.2 billion animal species and 300,000 plant species hitherto known. Going by the U.S. Geological Survey 1997 on the age of the earth (estimated to be 4.54 billion years), what should be the average rate of speciation?

How many mutations, on average, are required per speciation?

What is the average, observed mutation rate?

Well estimates vary as to how many species there actually are. Also most species have gone extinct. Scientists extimate that there are 9 million species today. If 99.9$ of species have gone extinct then we are talking about 9 billion species that have ever existed. Life has existed for about 3 billion years on earth. So speciation should happen 3 times a year. Since these are only estimates it could be higher like 100 speciation events per year or lower at 1 speciation event every 10 years. There is a very large margin or error because each of the numbers used for this calculation are just estimates. Plus evolution does not happen at a constant pace and humans have been wiping out a lot of species lately. Also what a species is, is up for debate.

Depending on how you define a mutation the number of mutations to make a species can widely vary and can be as low as 1.
https://migration.wordpress.com...

There are about 100 mutations per individual.

Most of the species on the planet are tiny organisms and there is no way we are going to even know when a speciation event happens because we are not carefully observing all 9 million species. Plus if a new species arises, if we are not careful it might be classified as a previously undiscovered species similar to an existing species.

Even with all this we have seen plenty of speciation. For example, we have speciation in the lab, Darwin's finches, and many ring species.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/4/2016 12:18:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 1:00:08 PM, distraff wrote:
At 5/3/2016 8:19:58 AM, someloser wrote:
There are approximately 1.2 billion animal species and 300,000 plant species hitherto known. Going by the U.S. Geological Survey 1997 on the age of the earth (estimated to be 4.54 billion years), what should be the average rate of speciation?

How many mutations, on average, are required per speciation?

What is the average, observed mutation rate?

Well estimates vary as to how many species there actually are. Also most species have gone extinct. Scientists extimate that there are 9 million species today. If 99.9$ of species have gone extinct then we are talking about 9 billion species that have ever existed. Life has existed for about 3 billion years on earth. So speciation should happen 3 times a year. Since these are only estimates it could be higher like 100 speciation events per year or lower at 1 speciation event every 10 years. There is a very large margin or error because each of the numbers used for this calculation are just estimates. Plus evolution does not happen at a constant pace and humans have been wiping out a lot of species lately. Also what a species is, is up for debate.

Depending on how you define a mutation the number of mutations to make a species can widely vary and can be as low as 1.
https://migration.wordpress.com...

There are about 100 mutations per individual.

Most of the species on the planet are tiny organisms and there is no way we are going to even know when a speciation event happens because we are not carefully observing all 9 million species. Plus if a new species arises, if we are not careful it might be classified as a previously undiscovered species similar to an existing species.

Even with all this we have seen plenty of speciation. For example, we have speciation in the lab, Darwin's finches, and many ring species.

ME: http://evolutiondismantled.com...

There is always an argument against as there are arguments for a particular theory.

I still can't understand the use of family, and species n by evolutionists. I have never denied t hat the can and is change in species, it is so obvious that the dog breeders of the world would faint if that was proved wrong.

However, no dog breeder has gone to the little of puppies and found a cat, a pig, a budgerigar or any other baby of another Family (kind) in the litter

Please, Could some one just put it is simple words the difference between family and species.

The above site is well set out and is not from a creationist, but a disagreeing scientific group.

What is science? Newton was called a scientist because he was hit on the head by an apple. Yes a bit of an exaggeration I know, but it is almost like that.

Pleases, I don't want a discussion of Newton, it is just an example of what it means to be a scientist...He was not a biologist, so we see nothing of his thoughts on evolution....maybe that theory was not well received in Newton's day.
Rukado
Posts: 527
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5/6/2016 2:42:41 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 8:19:58 AM, someloser wrote:

How many mutations, on average, are required per speciation?

In empirical science, there's really no relationship between mutations and specialization. Observed specialization, as defined by reproductive isolation, isn't caused by an accumulation of mutations. I.e. Specification is not relevant to Evolution. Evolution is about change in typology, not reproductive isolation.

A single mutation can split a population. A polyploidal mutation can divide a population, technically creating a new species. But, both species are physiologically indistinguishable from each other.

Populations isolated by geography can undergo adaptive divergence, and speciate without a single mutation occurring.

No specification is a result of simple accumulation of mutations. No new species appear by Evolution.
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/7/2016 6:42:41 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/6/2016 2:42:41 AM, Rukado wrote:
At 5/3/2016 8:19:58 AM, someloser wrote:

How many mutations, on average, are required per speciation?

In empirical science, there's really no relationship between mutations and specialization. Observed specialization, as defined by reproductive isolation, isn't caused by an accumulation of mutations. I.e. Specification is not relevant to Evolution. Evolution is about change in typology, not reproductive isolation.

A single mutation can split a population. A polyploidal mutation can divide a population, technically creating a new species. But, both species are physiologically indistinguishable from each other.

Populations isolated by geography can undergo adaptive divergence, and speciate without a single mutation occurring.

No specification is a result of simple accumulation of mutations. No new species appear by Evolution.

"I read a little bit about evolution. Now I can make meaningless sentences that sound technical by throwing in some scientific jargon."

LOL. Still no evidence for your god fairy creator?
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