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Some doubts i have about a globe earth

Kesdude
Posts: 10
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5/16/2016 2:22:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
I was in the Flat Earth bandwagon a while back.I have changed my views a bit and now i consider myself to be an earthal agnostic (i dont want to use global or planar :P,if there is a better word please inform me) on the matter.However I have some doubts about the globe which I cannot get my head around.

1.Change in Gradient

If the Earth is a sphere,wont there be constant gradient shifts everywhere? In Australia we would be upside down as compared to the American or Northern European and vice versa.How do people get adjusted to these gradient shifts and why do we not feel any semblance of a slope change when travelling to two countries with almost opposite slopes?(America and New Zealand/Australia).Shouldn't a dude going from the United States to Australia feel like the world is upside down?

2.Core of the Earth

Modern science believes the globe to have a core which is around 6401 km deep or 3977.7 miles.The temperature is believed to be 6000 degrees Celsius.

"Experts" in the Flat Earth Conspiracy know the depth of the Kola Superdeep Borehole.12.262 km,the temperature however,was a whopping 180 degree Celsius.Thats a rise of about 14.67 degrees Celsius per km(never mind at 15km it was expected to be at 300 degrees which is 20 degrees per km).

Ignoring any factors other than the average heat increase for 12.262 km,the expected temperature at the core should be around 14.67*6401 which is approximately 94000 degrees Celsius.

How then,do we get the relatively cold 6000 degrees Celsius as the temperature of the Earth?
roun12
Posts: 177
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5/16/2016 2:53:48 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 2:22:23 PM, Kesdude wrote:
I was in the Flat Earth bandwagon a while back.I have changed my views a bit and now i consider myself to be an earthal agnostic (i dont want to use global or planar :P,if there is a better word please inform me) on the matter.However I have some doubts about the globe which I cannot get my head around.


1.Change in Gradient

If the Earth is a sphere,wont there be constant gradient shifts everywhere? In Australia we would be upside down as compared to the American or Northern European and vice versa.How do people get adjusted to these gradient shifts and why do we not feel any semblance of a slope change when travelling to two countries with almost opposite slopes?(America and New Zealand/Australia).Shouldn't a dude going from the United States to Australia feel like the world is upside down?

Because gravity is always pulling us towards the center of the Earth. When you're in North America gravity is pulling you towards the core and when you're in Australia gravity is still pulling you towards the core.

2.Core of the Earth

Modern science believes the globe to have a core which is around 6401 km deep or 3977.7 miles.The temperature is believed to be 6000 degrees Celsius.

"Experts" in the Flat Earth Conspiracy know the depth of the Kola Superdeep Borehole.12.262 km,the temperature however,was a whopping 180 degree Celsius.Thats a rise of about 14.67 degrees Celsius per km(never mind at 15km it was expected to be at 300 degrees which is 20 degrees per km).

Ignoring any factors other than the average heat increase for 12.262 km,the expected temperature at the core should be around 14.67*6401 which is approximately 94000 degrees Celsius.

How then,do we get the relatively cold 6000 degrees Celsius as the temperature of the Earth?

Can you get a source for that estimate of the Earth's temperature?
"No, I disagree. 'R' is among the most menacing of sounds. That's why they call it MURDER, not Muckduck." - Dwight

"Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." - George Carlin
Kesdude
Posts: 10
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5/16/2016 3:14:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 2:53:48 PM, roun12 wrote:
At 5/16/2016 2:22:23 PM, Kesdude wrote:
I was in the Flat Earth bandwagon a while back.I have changed my views a bit and now i consider myself to be an earthal agnostic (i dont want to use global or planar :P,if there is a better word please inform me) on the matter.However I have some doubts about the globe which I cannot get my head around.


1.Change in Gradient

If the Earth is a sphere,wont there be constant gradient shifts everywhere? In Australia we would be upside down as compared to the American or Northern European and vice versa.How do people get adjusted to these gradient shifts and why do we not feel any semblance of a slope change when travelling to two countries with almost opposite slopes?(America and New Zealand/Australia).Shouldn't a dude going from the United States to Australia feel like the world is upside down?

Because gravity is always pulling us towards the center of the Earth. When you're in North America gravity is pulling you towards the core and when you're in Australia gravity is still pulling you towards the core.


Since all objects are getting pulled to the core,doesnt that mean that the people in Australia are being pulled in a north-ish direction and the people in America are pulled in a South-ish direction?Both these accelerations are at 9.8m/s,wouldn't the change of 9.8 m/s in the opposite direction take a while to get used to?

Furthermore, it doesnt answer the slope difference.Imagine a beach ball with an ant.Twisted to a certain perspective, The top right surface of the beach ball has a gradient(slope) which the ant adjusts itself to,while the bottom left of a beach ball has the opposite degree of slope which the ant adjust itself to..Imagine that the beach ball is the Earth,how does a person get adjust to the different slopes of the Earth so quickly while travelling,shouldn't we feel as if we are upside down?

2.Core of the Earth

Modern science believes the globe to have a core which is around 6401 km deep or 3977.7 miles.The temperature is believed to be 6000 degrees Celsius.

"Experts" in the Flat Earth Conspiracy know the depth of the Kola Superdeep Borehole.12.262 km,the temperature however,was a whopping 180 degree Celsius.Thats a rise of about 14.67 degrees Celsius per km(never mind at 15km it was expected to be at 300 degrees which is 20 degrees per km).

Ignoring any factors other than the average heat increase for 12.262 km,the expected temperature at the core should be around 14.67*6401 which is approximately 94000 degrees Celsius.

How then,do we get the relatively cold 6000 degrees Celsius as the temperature of the Earth's core?

Can you get a source for that estimate of the Earth's temperature?

It is just my estimate,just my own doubt that I had to clear because a debatee friend of mine couldnt and i cant find it in the internet :/.Edit:I meant earth's core ,sorry
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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5/16/2016 4:32:59 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 2:22:23 PM, Kesdude wrote:
I was in the Flat Earth bandwagon a while back.I have changed my views a bit and now i consider myself to be an earthal agnostic (i dont want to use global or planar :P,if there is a better word please inform me) on the matter.However I have some doubts about the globe which I cannot get my head around.


1.Change in Gradient

If the Earth is a sphere,wont there be constant gradient shifts everywhere? In Australia we would be upside down as compared to the American or Northern European and vice versa.How do people get adjusted to these gradient shifts and why do we not feel any semblance of a slope change when travelling to two countries with almost opposite slopes?(America and New Zealand/Australia).Shouldn't a dude going from the United States to Australia feel like the world is upside down?

2.Core of the Earth

Modern science believes the globe to have a core which is around 6401 km deep or 3977.7 miles.The temperature is believed to be 6000 degrees Celsius.

"Experts" in the Flat Earth Conspiracy know the depth of the Kola Superdeep Borehole.12.262 km,the temperature however,was a whopping 180 degree Celsius.Thats a rise of about 14.67 degrees Celsius per km(never mind at 15km it was expected to be at 300 degrees which is 20 degrees per km).

Ignoring any factors other than the average heat increase for 12.262 km,the expected temperature at the core should be around 14.67*6401 which is approximately 94000 degrees Celsius.

How then,do we get the relatively cold 6000 degrees Celsius as the temperature of the Earth?

If the temperature was a linear relationship, then you would be able to measure a constant drop over every interval to confirm this, not just the drop from the start point to the end point. We know that heat is influenced by convection, and we know that there is alot of heat convection near the surface of the crust as heat radiates off the planet and into outer space. That means temperatures near the surface can change quickly. On a windy day we intuitively observe this. There isn't anywhere for heat to go with low convection near the core, so it is likely that the rate of temperature change would be observed as decreasing, and not linear.
Kesdude
Posts: 10
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5/16/2016 5:05:16 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
If the temperature was a linear relationship, then you would be able to measure a constant drop over every interval to confirm this, not just the drop from the start point to the end point. We know that heat is influenced by convection, and we know that there is alot of heat convection near the surface of the crust as heat radiates off the planet and into outer space. That means temperatures near the surface can change quickly. On a windy day we intuitively observe this. There isn't anywhere for heat to go with low convection near the core, so it is likely that the rate of temperature change would be observed as decreasing, and not linear.

According to the Kola Superdeep Article in wiki, at 12.26 km deep it was 180 degree celsius.

It was predicted(most likely by serious experts,since it was aiming to be the world's deepest hole) to be 300 degree Celsius at 15km.

You say that the rate of temperature change is decreasing.However from 0-12.26,average heat increase is 14.68. But from 12.26km to 15km,the temperature is expected to increase by a average rate of 40 degrees per kilometre.That is an exponential increase in the higher side.

Also,the specific heat capacity of iron is far lesser than that of the crust,therefore,the iron in the core should heat far more quickly than the crust.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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5/16/2016 7:29:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 5:05:16 PM, Kesdude wrote:

Also,the specific heat capacity of iron is far lesser than that of the crust,therefore,the iron in the core should heat far more quickly than the crust.

At what temperature?
Heat capacity is itself temperature dependent. ..
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/16/2016 9:04:01 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 2:22:23 PM, Kesdude wrote:
I was in the Flat Earth bandwagon a while back.I have changed my views a bit and now i consider myself to be an earthal agnostic (i dont want to use global or planar :P,if there is a better word please inform me) on the matter.However I have some doubts about the globe which I cannot get my head around.


1.Change in Gradient

If the Earth is a sphere,wont there be constant gradient shifts everywhere? In Australia we would be upside down as compared to the American or Northern European and vice versa.How do people get adjusted to these gradient shifts and why do we not feel any semblance of a slope change when travelling to two countries with almost opposite slopes?(America and New Zealand/Australia).Shouldn't a dude going from the United States to Australia feel like the world is upside down?

2.Core of the Earth

Modern science believes the globe to have a core which is around 6401 km deep or 3977.7 miles.The temperature is believed to be 6000 degrees Celsius.

"Experts" in the Flat Earth Conspiracy know the depth of the Kola Superdeep Borehole.12.262 km,the temperature however,was a whopping 180 degree Celsius.Thats a rise of about 14.67 degrees Celsius per km(never mind at 15km it was expected to be at 300 degrees which is 20 degrees per km).

Ignoring any factors other than the average heat increase for 12.262 km,the expected temperature at the core should be around 14.67*6401 which is approximately 94000 degrees Celsius.

How then,do we get the relatively cold 6000 degrees Celsius as the temperature of the Earth? : :

I had a discussion with my son last night about the curvature of the earth. He's been a surveyor for the past 18 years and in order to make up for that curvature problem, they divide up the land in grids. Each grid is level for thousands of feet until they move to the next grid that has a different leveling point to takes their shots from. This means that the earth to them is not curved or flat. They think of the earth as a many-sided object with level surfaces.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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5/16/2016 9:26:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 3:14:56 PM, Kesdude wrote:
At 5/16/2016 2:53:48 PM, roun12 wrote:
At 5/16/2016 2:22:23 PM, Kesdude wrote:
I was in the Flat Earth bandwagon a while back.I have changed my views a bit and now i consider myself to be an earthal agnostic (i dont want to use global or planar :P,if there is a better word please inform me) on the matter.However I have some doubts about the globe which I cannot get my head around.


1.Change in Gradient

If the Earth is a sphere,wont there be constant gradient shifts everywhere? In Australia we would be upside down as compared to the American or Northern European and vice versa.How do people get adjusted to these gradient shifts and why do we not feel any semblance of a slope change when travelling to two countries with almost opposite slopes?(America and New Zealand/Australia).Shouldn't a dude going from the United States to Australia feel like the world is upside down?

Because gravity is always pulling us towards the center of the Earth. When you're in North America gravity is pulling you towards the core and when you're in Australia gravity is still pulling you towards the core.


Since all objects are getting pulled to the core,doesnt that mean that the people in Australia are being pulled in a north-ish direction and the people in America are pulled in a South-ish direction?Both these accelerations are at 9.8m/s,wouldn't the change of 9.8 m/s in the opposite direction take a while to get used to?

Furthermore, it doesnt answer the slope difference.Imagine a beach ball with an ant.Twisted to a certain perspective, The top right surface of the beach ball has a gradient(slope) which the ant adjusts itself to,while the bottom left of a beach ball has the opposite degree of slope which the ant adjust itself to..Imagine that the beach ball is the Earth,how does a person get adjust to the different slopes of the Earth so quickly while travelling,shouldn't we feel as if we are upside down?

For humans on Earth to be the scale equivalent of ants on a 24 inch diameter beach ball, humans would have to be about 108 miles tall.
Kesdude
Posts: 10
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5/17/2016 7:29:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Furthermore, it doesnt answer the slope difference.Imagine a beach ball with an ant.Twisted to a certain perspective, The top right surface of the beach ball has a gradient(slope) which the ant adjusts itself to,while the bottom left of a beach ball has the opposite degree of slope which the ant adjust itself to..Imagine that the beach ball is the Earth,how does a person get adjust to the different slopes of the Earth so quickly while travelling,shouldn't we feel as if we are upside down?

For humans on Earth to be the scale equivalent of ants on a 24 inch diameter beach ball, humans would have to be about 108 miles tall.

It was just an illustration,if size does affect the feeling of change of slope,please explain.
Kesdude
Posts: 10
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5/17/2016 7:37:26 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 7:29:45 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 5/16/2016 5:05:16 PM, Kesdude wrote:

Also,the specific heat capacity of iron is far lesser than that of the crust,therefore,the iron in the core should heat far more quickly than the crust.

At what temperature?
Heat capacity is itself temperature dependent. ..

Yeah,that explains something,never knew that concept before,i assumed that heat capacities were constant,my bad.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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5/17/2016 9:21:35 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/17/2016 7:37:26 AM, Kesdude wrote:
At 5/16/2016 7:29:45 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 5/16/2016 5:05:16 PM, Kesdude wrote:

Also,the specific heat capacity of iron is far lesser than that of the crust,therefore,the iron in the core should heat far more quickly than the crust.

At what temperature?
Heat capacity is itself temperature dependent. ..

Yeah,that explains something,never knew that concept before,i assumed that heat capacities were constant,my bad.

No problem, this issue is not trivial by any means.

Generally, the temperature dependence of specific and molar heat capacities can be represented by an empirical Taylor series:

c= A+B*T+C*T^2 .......
however precise you want to have it, with capital A-C being empirical parameters and T being the absolute temperature.

It is still a lot more complicated than this, because you can't just use any parameters for any temperature, their scope of aplication is limited to certain temperature ranges as well.
A further reason why you can't use them in this case is that iron is solid at roomtemperature, but liquid at 6000K and phase shifts are not accounted for here.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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5/17/2016 9:23:08 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
A further reason why you can't use them in this case is that iron is solid at roomtemperature, but liquid at 6000K and phase shifts are not accounted for here.

"them" refers to the empirical parameters at roomtemperature.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic