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When is someone gunna 'splain Instinct.

Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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6/1/2016 1:09:30 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
When Ever I say something there are those that want proof, or citation, and there are others that say what do you mean, and there are others that just want to hijack the post, so be that as it may, please explain how instinct came into evolution.

I gave the example of the Muttonbirds, or Wedge Tailed Shearwaters of Australia. (And elsewhere in the world). The parents leave the chicks before the chicks can fly. The chicks hurriedly lose weight and they only have about 3 weeks to catch up to mum and dad, who are on their way to somewhere off Russia.

The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Now, how did they know which island or colony to go to???????? If they go to the wrong colony they are likely to be repelled and die in the sea.

How did this accurate knowledge get into the chicks head?
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/1/2016 1:29:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Does this even happen? All google searches suggest that the WTS is cared for until fledging is complete.

Also, apparently WTS only lay a single egg.

Are you just making things up now?
Meh!
Peternosaint
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6/1/2016 6:51:48 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 1:29:54 AM, Axonly wrote:
The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Does this even happen? All google searches suggest that the WTS is cared for until fledging is complete.

ME: definitely not made up, I can assure you.

The young chicks hatch in the third week of January after an incubation period averaging 53 days. Both parents participate in feeding the chick. The chick quickly puts on weight and before the departure of the parents, is almost twice the weight of an adult. The adults depart from early April leaving behind the young birds still covered in down. From this time until early May the chicks do not eat at all. They rapidly lose weight and acquire their flight feathers. The young spend an increasing amount of time outside the burrow, slowly moving closer to the shore and exercising their wings. Two to three weeks after the parents have left, the young birds begin their migratory flight unassisted by experienced birds.

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au...

Don't apologize, you thought you were on to a good old mud sling...I understand.

Also, apparently WTS only lay a single egg.

ME: are you questioning me when say "Chicks", they may lay only one egg but there are many that lay eggs, as you will see form the site I gave you.

Please put your reference site her so I can check your authenticity, or were you just making things up?

Are you just making things up now?

ME: So, you are going to explain instinct now.....OH! Goody!!!!!
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/1/2016 7:21:25 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 6:51:48 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:29:54 AM, Axonly wrote:
The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Does this even happen? All google searches suggest that the WTS is cared for until fledging is complete.

ME: definitely not made up, I can assure you.

The young chicks hatch in the third week of January after an incubation period averaging 53 days. Both parents participate in feeding the chick. The chick quickly puts on weight and before the departure of the parents, is almost twice the weight of an adult. The adults depart from early April leaving behind the young birds still covered in down. From this time until early May the chicks do not eat at all. They rapidly lose weight and acquire their flight feathers. The young spend an increasing amount of time outside the burrow, slowly moving closer to the shore and exercising their wings. Two to three weeks after the parents have left, the young birds begin their migratory flight unassisted by experienced birds.

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au...

Don't apologize, you thought you were on to a good old mud sling...I understand.

The bird you are quoting now is the "Short-tailed shearwater" (Puffinnus tenuirostris), in your original post, you called it the "Wedge Tailed Shearwater" which is "Ardenna pacificus". Their completely different species (Although they are in the same genus). Apology pls.

Also, apparently WTS only lay a single egg.

ME: are you questioning me when say "Chicks", they may lay only one egg but there are many that lay eggs, as you will see form the site I gave you.

Wedge tails allegedly lay only a single egg

Please put your reference site her so I can check your authenticity, or were you just making things up?

Looks like you were :)

Are you just making things up now?

ME: So, you are going to explain instinct now.....OH! Goody!!!!!

Instinct is a tricky topic to explain, especially considering how difficult it is to find information about the migration tactics of one bird species.

As the link you sent explains, these young birds migrate without assistance from their parents. Since migration behavior is either learnt or innate, it must be an innate behavior. Innate behavior is genetically determined, some examples of this is our instinct to breath, or when we squint when a ball is about to hit us in the face.

Explaining exactly how evolution creates these innate behaviors is beyond the knowledge ability of most people, as such I don't feel im confident enough to explain this. This is why I am reaching out to a Zoology professor. Hopefully soon I will have a response to explain this.
Meh!
Axonly
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6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3
Meh!
VelCrow
Posts: 1,273
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6/1/2016 8:25:59 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

No point trying to talk to OP. he just a troll character here for the mud sling. also try to keep your post short and simple. apparently he has an inability to process long posts.
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

http://www.debate.org...
keithprosser
Posts: 2,085
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6/1/2016 8:52:33 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Instinct is interesting tho'. If we ignore the inevitable line-noise from certain quarters we can still have a good discussion.

i'd suggest that instinct arises because a hard-wired reponse can be implemented using far fewer neurones than are needed to produce the intelligence required to produce the same result. A spider that consciously worked out how to spin its a web would need a huge brain to do it.

I'd put pain/pleasure in the same category. Avoiding injury is important for survival, but knowing why avoiding injuries is important isn't. So pain evolves as a means of getting critters to avoid injuries without having to give them the smarts required to understand or learn anything beyond that somethings bl**dy hurt. At least in the old days that was the basis of giving toddlers a good smack if they put their fingers in a power socket. A two-year old might not be able understand the dangers of electricity but they can understand if they do it again they will get a smack!

The connection between pleasure and reproduction hardly needs commenting on.... I am dam' sure few non-human animals, um, copulate because they actually know its the way to make babies. I am not even sure that it's clear to human teenagers.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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6/1/2016 2:16:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 1:09:30 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
When Ever I say something there are those that want proof, or citation, and there are others that say what do you mean, and there are others that just want to hijack the post, so be that as it may, please explain how instinct came into evolution.

I gave the example of the Muttonbirds, or Wedge Tailed Shearwaters of Australia. (And elsewhere in the world). The parents leave the chicks before the chicks can fly. The chicks hurriedly lose weight and they only have about 3 weeks to catch up to mum and dad, who are on their way to somewhere off Russia.

The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Now, how did they know which island or colony to go to???????? If they go to the wrong colony they are likely to be repelled and die in the sea.

How did this accurate knowledge get into the chicks head?

Because Instinct in a difficult to understand concept, you are suggesting we ignore all the other information we have about biology? If you held to the same standard for creation you would have to have scrapped it long ago.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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6/1/2016 9:40:20 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 1:09:30 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
When Ever I say something there are those that want proof, or citation, and there are others that say what do you mean, and there are others that just want to hijack the post, so be that as it may, please explain how instinct came into evolution.

I gave the example of the Muttonbirds, or Wedge Tailed Shearwaters of Australia. (And elsewhere in the world). The parents leave the chicks before the chicks can fly. The chicks hurriedly lose weight and they only have about 3 weeks to catch up to mum and dad, who are on their way to somewhere off Russia.

The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Now, how did they know which island or colony to go to???????? If they go to the wrong colony they are likely to be repelled and die in the sea.

How did this accurate knowledge get into the chicks head?

Instincts are controlled via morphogenetic fields in the platonic realm.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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6/2/2016 12:37:19 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

ME: What a pathetic attempt to weasel out of a mistake...I was referring to the Muttonbird.

Quote:

Description
Short-tailed shearwater

Shearwaters are one of the world's
most remarkable migratory birds
(Photo by Steve Johnson)

The short-tailed shearwater, or mutton bird as it is often known, is a member of a group of 60 medium to large seabirds in the family Procellaridae. This family includes species such as petrels and prions. All members of the family have tube-like nostrils on the top of their upper beak and are believed to be one of the few bird families with a well-developed sense of smell. Almost all breed in burrows and, like the albatrosses, are truly impressive oceanic fliers
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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6/2/2016 12:45:52 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 2:16:24 PM, TBR wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:09:30 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
When Ever I say something there are those that want proof, or citation, and there are others that say what do you mean, and there are others that just want to hijack the post, so be that as it may, please explain how instinct came into evolution.

I gave the example of the Muttonbirds, or Wedge Tailed Shearwaters of Australia. (And elsewhere in the world). The parents leave the chicks before the chicks can fly. The chicks hurriedly lose weight and they only have about 3 weeks to catch up to mum and dad, who are on their way to somewhere off Russia.

The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Now, how did they know which island or colony to go to???????? If they go to the wrong colony they are likely to be repelled and die in the sea.

How did this accurate knowledge get into the chicks head?

Because Instinct in a difficult to understand concept, you are suggesting we ignore all the other information we have about biology? If you held to the same standard for creation you would have to have scrapped it long ago.

ME: No, just the many theories of evolution. There is more, explain the gene for Conscience which differs dramatically for human to human, of course there are ones like you that do not have this gene. The we have love and hate, where are these genes stored. Not only is love unexplainable, it has several different meanings in the human. It would also appear that you only concentrate on one of those meanings, love of yourself.

It is a shame that when your intelligence is tested you resort to words that make me reply in kind.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/2/2016 5:22:09 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 12:37:19 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

ME: What a pathetic attempt to weasel out of a mistake...I was referring to the Muttonbird.

Quote:

Description
Short-tailed shearwater

Shearwaters are one of the world's
most remarkable migratory birds
(Photo by Steve Johnson)

The short-tailed shearwater, or mutton bird as it is often known, is a member of a group of 60 medium to large seabirds in the family Procellaridae. This family includes species such as petrels and prions. All members of the family have tube-like nostrils on the top of their upper beak and are believed to be one of the few bird families with a well-developed sense of smell. Almost all breed in burrows and, like the albatrosses, are truly impressive oceanic fliers

I am quoting you directly "I gave the example of the Muttonbirds, or Wedge Tailed Shearwaters of Australia.".

That must have been an embarrassing mistake.
Meh!
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/2/2016 5:26:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 12:37:19 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

ME: What a pathetic attempt to weasel out of a mistake...I was referring to the Muttonbird.

Quote:

Description
Short-tailed shearwater

Shearwaters are one of the world's
most remarkable migratory birds
(Photo by Steve Johnson)

The short-tailed shearwater, or mutton bird as it is often known, is a member of a group of 60 medium to large seabirds in the family Procellaridae. This family includes species such as petrels and prions. All members of the family have tube-like nostrils on the top of their upper beak and are believed to be one of the few bird families with a well-developed sense of smell. Almost all breed in burrows and, like the albatrosses, are truly impressive oceanic fliers

Anyway, to save you from further embarrassment. Here is the explanation of evolution of innate behaviors, courtesy of a zoology professor I contacted:

"Your question is an excellent one that has attracted considerable research attention, and there is no simple answer. The abstract below, from a 2003 review, outlines some of the salient issues. I have also attached a 2014 paper from the prestigious journal PNAS that delves in to this question for spring birds in North America.

Cheers

Thomas Alerstam, Anders Hedenstrom and Susanne Akesson Alerstam, T., Hedenstrdm, A. and Akesson, S. 2003. Long-distance migration: evolution and determinants. - Oikos 103: 247-260.

Long-distance migration has evolved in many organisms moving through different media and using various modes of locomotion and transport. Migration continues to evolve or become suppressed as shown by ongoing dynamic and rapid changes of migration patterns. This great evolutionary flexibility may seem surprising for such a complex attribute as migration. Even if migration in most cases has evolved basically as a strategy to maximise fitness in a seasonal environment, its occurrence and extent depend on a multitude of factors. We give a brief overview of different factors (e.g. physical, geographical, historical, ecological) likely to facilitate and/or constrain the evolution of long-distance migration and discuss how they are likely to affect migration. The basic driving forces for migration are ecological and biogeographic factors like seasonality, spatiotemporal distributions of resources, habitats, predation and competition. The benefit of increased resource availability will be balanced by costs associated with the migratory process in terms of time (incl. losses of prior occupancy advantages), energy and mortality (incl. increased exposure to parasites). Furthermore, migration requires genetic instructions (allowing substantial room for learning in some of the traits) about timing, duration and distance of migration as well as about behavioural and physiological adaptations (fuelling, organ flexibility, locomotion, use of environmental transport etc) and control of orientation and navigation. To what degree these costs and requirements put constraints on migration often depends on body size according to different scaling relationships. From this expose it is clear that research on migration warrants a multitude of techniques and approaches for a complete as possible understanding of a very complex evolutionary syndrome. In addition, we also present examples of migratory distances in a variety of taxons. In recent years new techniques, especially satellite radio telemetry, provide new information of unprecedented accuracy about journeys of individual animals, allowing re-evaluation of migration, locomotion and navigation theories."

There is also a PDF if you like?
Meh!
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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6/2/2016 6:59:46 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 5:26:28 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 12:37:19 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

ME: What a pathetic attempt to weasel out of a mistake...I was referring to the Muttonbird.

Quote:

Description
Short-tailed shearwater

Shearwaters are one of the world's
most remarkable migratory birds
(Photo by Steve Johnson)

The short-tailed shearwater, or mutton bird as it is often known, is a member of a group of 60 medium to large seabirds in the family Procellaridae. This family includes species such as petrels and prions. All members of the family have tube-like nostrils on the top of their upper beak and are believed to be one of the few bird families with a well-developed sense of smell. Almost all breed in burrows and, like the albatrosses, are truly impressive oceanic fliers

Anyway, to save you from further embarrassment. Here is the explanation of evolution of innate behaviors, courtesy of a zoology professor I contacted:

ME: So you had the inane audacity to claim my question as your own....Typical of the mentally retarded.

"Your question is an excellent one that has attracted considerable research attention, and there is no simple answer. The abstract below, from a 2003 review, outlines some of the salient issues. I have also attached a 2014 paper from the prestigious journal PNAS that delves in to this question for spring birds in North America.

Cheers


Thomas Alerstam, Anders Hedenstrom and Susanne Akesson Alerstam, T., Hedenstrdm, A. and Akesson, S. 2003. Long-distance migration: evolution and determinants. - Oikos 103: 247-260.

Long-distance migration has evolved in many organisms moving through different media and using various modes of locomotion and transport. Migration continues to evolve or become suppressed as shown by ongoing dynamic and rapid changes of migration patterns. This great evolutionary flexibility may seem surprising for such a complex attribute as migration. Even if migration in most cases has evolved basically as a strategy to maximise fitness in a seasonal environment, its occurrence and extent depend on a multitude of factors. We give a brief overview of different factors (e.g. physical, geographical, historical, ecological) likely to facilitate and/or constrain the evolution of long-distance migration and discuss how they are likely to affect migration. The basic driving forces for migration are ecological and biogeographic factors like seasonality, spatiotemporal distributions of resources, habitats, predation and competition. The benefit of increased resource availability will be balanced by costs associated with the migratory process in terms of time (incl. losses of prior occupancy advantages), energy and mortality (incl. increased exposure to parasites). Furthermore, migration requires genetic instructions (allowing substantial room for learning in some of the traits) about timing, duration and distance of migration as well as about behavioural and physiological adaptations (fuelling, organ flexibility, locomotion, use of environmental transport etc) and control of orientation and navigation. To what degree these costs and requirements put constraints on migration often depends on body size according to different scaling relationships. From this expose it is clear that research on migration warrants a multitude of techniques and approaches for a complete as possible understanding of a very complex evolutionary syndrome. In addition, we also present examples of migratory distances in a variety of taxons. In recent years new techniques, especially satellite radio telemetry, provide new information of unprecedented accuracy about journeys of individual animals, allowing re-evaluation of migration, locomotion and navigation theories."

There is also a PDF if you like?

ME: As I have always known, there is no explanation from the evolutionists on this question OF MINE, just as there are no truthful answers to many questions from your mob. So the procedure is to first try to be as ignorant as you and your mob can be, and then try to cover your mistakes with more irrational rantings.

There are a couple of reasonable people on this forum that can have sensible discussions, but you and your mate, Crow Bait, are not in that category, by far.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/2/2016 8:31:42 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 6:59:46 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/2/2016 5:26:28 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 12:37:19 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

ME: What a pathetic attempt to weasel out of a mistake...I was referring to the Muttonbird.

Quote:

Description
Short-tailed shearwater

Shearwaters are one of the world's
most remarkable migratory birds
(Photo by Steve Johnson)

The short-tailed shearwater, or mutton bird as it is often known, is a member of a group of 60 medium to large seabirds in the family Procellaridae. This family includes species such as petrels and prions. All members of the family have tube-like nostrils on the top of their upper beak and are believed to be one of the few bird families with a well-developed sense of smell. Almost all breed in burrows and, like the albatrosses, are truly impressive oceanic fliers

Anyway, to save you from further embarrassment. Here is the explanation of evolution of innate behaviors, courtesy of a zoology professor I contacted:

ME: So you had the inane audacity to claim my question as your own....Typical of the mentally retarded.

"Your question is an excellent one that has attracted considerable research attention, and there is no simple answer. The abstract below, from a 2003 review, outlines some of the salient issues. I have also attached a 2014 paper from the prestigious journal PNAS that delves in to this question for spring birds in North America.

Cheers


Thomas Alerstam, Anders Hedenstrom and Susanne Akesson Alerstam, T., Hedenstrdm, A. and Akesson, S. 2003. Long-distance migration: evolution and determinants. - Oikos 103: 247-260.

Long-distance migration has evolved in many organisms moving through different media and using various modes of locomotion and transport. Migration continues to evolve or become suppressed as shown by ongoing dynamic and rapid changes of migration patterns. This great evolutionary flexibility may seem surprising for such a complex attribute as migration. Even if migration in most cases has evolved basically as a strategy to maximise fitness in a seasonal environment, its occurrence and extent depend on a multitude of factors. We give a brief overview of different factors (e.g. physical, geographical, historical, ecological) likely to facilitate and/or constrain the evolution of long-distance migration and discuss how they are likely to affect migration. The basic driving forces for migration are ecological and biogeographic factors like seasonality, spatiotemporal distributions of resources, habitats, predation and competition. The benefit of increased resource availability will be balanced by costs associated with the migratory process in terms of time (incl. losses of prior occupancy advantages), energy and mortality (incl. increased exposure to parasites). Furthermore, migration requires genetic instructions (allowing substantial room for learning in some of the traits) about timing, duration and distance of migration as well as about behavioural and physiological adaptations (fuelling, organ flexibility, locomotion, use of environmental transport etc) and control of orientation and navigation. To what degree these costs and requirements put constraints on migration often depends on body size according to different scaling relationships. From this expose it is clear that research on migration warrants a multitude of techniques and approaches for a complete as possible understanding of a very complex evolutionary syndrome. In addition, we also present examples of migratory distances in a variety of taxons. In recent years new techniques, especially satellite radio telemetry, provide new information of unprecedented accuracy about journeys of individual animals, allowing re-evaluation of migration, locomotion and navigation theories."

There is also a PDF if you like?

ME: As I have always known, there is no explanation from the evolutionists on this question OF MINE, just as there are no truthful answers to many questions from your mob. So the procedure is to first try to be as ignorant as you and your mob can be, and then try to cover your mistakes with more irrational rantings.

There are a couple of reasonable people on this forum that can have sensible discussions, but you and your mate, Crow Bait, are not in that category, by far.

You didn't read it then.

You have outright lied to me, had a temper tantrum because of a mistake YOU made and now will refuse to read evidence I acquired from a zoology professor (AKA someone more qualified to explain this subject than either you or me).

No, Peter. I think you aren't worth my time, nor anyone else. Have fun with your crazy beliefs.
Meh!
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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6/2/2016 9:13:45 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 8:31:42 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 6:59:46 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/2/2016 5:26:28 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 12:37:19 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

ME: What a pathetic attempt to weasel out of a mistake...I was referring to the Muttonbird.

Quote:

Description
Short-tailed shearwater

Shearwaters are one of the world's
most remarkable migratory birds
(Photo by Steve Johnson)

The short-tailed shearwater, or mutton bird as it is often known, is a member of a group of 60 medium to large seabirds in the family Procellaridae. This family includes species such as petrels and prions. All members of the family have tube-like nostrils on the top of their upper beak and are believed to be one of the few bird families with a well-developed sense of smell. Almost all breed in burrows and, like the albatrosses, are truly impressive oceanic fliers

Anyway, to save you from further embarrassment. Here is the explanation of evolution of innate behaviors, courtesy of a zoology professor I contacted:

ME: So you had the inane audacity to claim my question as your own....Typical of the mentally retarded.

"Your question is an excellent one that has attracted considerable research attention, and there is no simple answer. The abstract below, from a 2003 review, outlines some of the salient issues. I have also attached a 2014 paper from the prestigious journal PNAS that delves in to this question for spring birds in North America.

Cheers


Thomas Alerstam, Anders Hedenstrom and Susanne Akesson Alerstam, T., Hedenstrdm, A. and Akesson, S. 2003. Long-distance migration: evolution and determinants. - Oikos 103: 247-260.

Long-distance migration has evolved in many organisms moving through different media and using various modes of locomotion and transport. Migration continues to evolve or become suppressed as shown by ongoing dynamic and rapid changes of migration patterns. This great evolutionary flexibility may seem surprising for such a complex attribute as migration. Even if migration in most cases has evolved basically as a strategy to maximise fitness in a seasonal environment, its occurrence and extent depend on a multitude of factors. We give a brief overview of different factors (e.g. physical, geographical, historical, ecological) likely to facilitate and/or constrain the evolution of long-distance migration and discuss how they are likely to affect migration. The basic driving forces for migration are ecological and biogeographic factors like seasonality, spatiotemporal distributions of resources, habitats, predation and competition. The benefit of increased resource availability will be balanced by costs associated with the migratory process in terms of time (incl. losses of prior occupancy advantages), energy and mortality (incl. increased exposure to parasites). Furthermore, migration requires genetic instructions (allowing substantial room for learning in some of the traits) about timing, duration and distance of migration as well as about behavioural and physiological adaptations (fuelling, organ flexibility, locomotion, use of environmental transport etc) and control of orientation and navigation. To what degree these costs and requirements put constraints on migration often depends on body size according to different scaling relationships. From this expose it is clear that research on migration warrants a multitude of techniques and approaches for a complete as possible understanding of a very complex evolutionary syndrome. In addition, we also present examples of migratory distances in a variety of taxons. In recent years new techniques, especially satellite radio telemetry, provide new information of unprecedented accuracy about journeys of individual animals, allowing re-evaluation of migration, locomotion and navigation theories."

There is also a PDF if you like?

ME: As I have always known, there is no explanation from the evolutionists on this question OF MINE, just as there are no truthful answers to many questions from your mob. So the procedure is to first try to be as ignorant as you and your mob can be, and then try to cover your mistakes with more irrational rantings.

There are a couple of reasonable people on this forum that can have sensible discussions, but you and your mate, Crow Bait, are not in that category, by far.

You didn't read it then.

You have outright lied to me, had a temper tantrum because of a mistake YOU made and now will refuse to read evidence I acquired from a zoology professor (AKA someone more qualified to explain this subject than either you or me).

No, Peter. I think you aren't worth my time, nor anyone else. Have fun with your crazy beliefs.

ME: Does this mean that you will not enter my posts in the future....OH! Joy, like is good some times.

You must be female, or pretending to be one, no sensible male would carry on like you.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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6/2/2016 9:17:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 9:13:45 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/2/2016 8:31:42 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 6:59:46 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/2/2016 5:26:28 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 12:37:19 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

ME: What a pathetic attempt to weasel out of a mistake...I was referring to the Muttonbird.

Quote:

Description
Short-tailed shearwater

Shearwaters are one of the world's
most remarkable migratory birds
(Photo by Steve Johnson)

The short-tailed shearwater, or mutton bird as it is often known, is a member of a group of 60 medium to large seabirds in the family Procellaridae. This family includes species such as petrels and prions. All members of the family have tube-like nostrils on the top of their upper beak and are believed to be one of the few bird families with a well-developed sense of smell. Almost all breed in burrows and, like the albatrosses, are truly impressive oceanic fliers

Anyway, to save you from further embarrassment. Here is the explanation of evolution of innate behaviors, courtesy of a zoology professor I contacted:

ME: So you had the inane audacity to claim my question as your own....Typical of the mentally retarded.

"Your question is an excellent one that has attracted considerable research attention, and there is no simple answer. The abstract below, from a 2003 review, outlines some of the salient issues. I have also attached a 2014 paper from the prestigious journal PNAS that delves in to this question for spring birds in North America.

Cheers


Thomas Alerstam, Anders Hedenstrom and Susanne Akesson Alerstam, T., Hedenstrdm, A. and Akesson, S. 2003. Long-distance migration: evolution and determinants. - Oikos 103: 247-260.

Long-distance migration has evolved in many organisms moving through different media and using various modes of locomotion and transport. Migration continues to evolve or become suppressed as shown by ongoing dynamic and rapid changes of migration patterns. This great evolutionary flexibility may seem surprising for such a complex attribute as migration. Even if migration in most cases has evolved basically as a strategy to maximise fitness in a seasonal environment, its occurrence and extent depend on a multitude of factors. We give a brief overview of different factors (e.g. physical, geographical, historical, ecological) likely to facilitate and/or constrain the evolution of long-distance migration and discuss how they are likely to affect migration. The basic driving forces for migration are ecological and biogeographic factors like seasonality, spatiotemporal distributions of resources, habitats, predation and competition. The benefit of increased resource availability will be balanced by costs associated with the migratory process in terms of time (incl. losses of prior occupancy advantages), energy and mortality (incl. increased exposure to parasites). Furthermore, migration requires genetic instructions (allowing substantial room for learning in some of the traits) about timing, duration and distance of migration as well as about behavioural and physiological adaptations (fuelling, organ flexibility, locomotion, use of environmental transport etc) and control of orientation and navigation. To what degree these costs and requirements put constraints on migration often depends on body size according to different scaling relationships. From this expose it is clear that research on migration warrants a multitude of techniques and approaches for a complete as possible understanding of a very complex evolutionary syndrome. In addition, we also present examples of migratory distances in a variety of taxons. In recent years new techniques, especially satellite radio telemetry, provide new information of unprecedented accuracy about journeys of individual animals, allowing re-evaluation of migration, locomotion and navigation theories."

There is also a PDF if you like?

ME: As I have always known, there is no explanation from the evolutionists on this question OF MINE, just as there are no truthful answers to many questions from your mob. So the procedure is to first try to be as ignorant as you and your mob can be, and then try to cover your mistakes with more irrational rantings.

There are a couple of reasonable people on this forum that can have sensible discussions, but you and your mate, Crow Bait, are not in that category, by far.

You didn't read it then.

You have outright lied to me, had a temper tantrum because of a mistake YOU made and now will refuse to read evidence I acquired from a zoology professor (AKA someone more qualified to explain this subject than either you or me).

No, Peter. I think you aren't worth my time, nor anyone else. Have fun with your crazy beliefs.

ME: Does this mean that you will not enter my posts in the future....OH! Joy, like is good some times.

You must be female, or pretending to be one, no sensible male would carry on like you.

The interesting bit is.....You know what you did :)

Goodbye.

Oh, just so I have the last word, any notifications from you will be ignored, nothing you post and/or send will be read.
Meh!
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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6/2/2016 9:21:24 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 8:31:42 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 6:59:46 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/2/2016 5:26:28 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 12:37:19 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

ME: What a pathetic attempt to weasel out of a mistake...I was referring to the Muttonbird.

Quote:

Description
Short-tailed shearwater

Shearwaters are one of the world's
most remarkable migratory birds
(Photo by Steve Johnson)

The short-tailed shearwater, or mutton bird as it is often known, is a member of a group of 60 medium to large seabirds in the family Procellaridae. This family includes species such as petrels and prions. All members of the family have tube-like nostrils on the top of their upper beak and are believed to be one of the few bird families with a well-developed sense of smell. Almost all breed in burrows and, like the albatrosses, are truly impressive oceanic fliers

Anyway, to save you from further embarrassment. Here is the explanation of evolution of innate behaviors, courtesy of a zoology professor I contacted:

ME: So you had the inane audacity to claim my question as your own....Typical of the mentally retarded.

"Your question is an excellent one that has attracted considerable research attention, and there is no simple answer. The abstract below, from a 2003 review, outlines some of the salient issues. I have also attached a 2014 paper from the prestigious journal PNAS that delves in to this question for spring birds in North America.

Cheers


Thomas Alerstam, Anders Hedenstrom and Susanne Akesson Alerstam, T., Hedenstrdm, A. and Akesson, S. 2003. Long-distance migration: evolution and determinants. - Oikos 103: 247-260.

Long-distance migration has evolved in many organisms moving through different media and using various modes of locomotion and transport. Migration continues to evolve or become suppressed as shown by ongoing dynamic and rapid changes of migration patterns. This great evolutionary flexibility may seem surprising for such a complex attribute as migration. Even if migration in most cases has evolved basically as a strategy to maximise fitness in a seasonal environment, its occurrence and extent depend on a multitude of factors. We give a brief overview of different factors (e.g. physical, geographical, historical, ecological) likely to facilitate and/or constrain the evolution of long-distance migration and discuss how they are likely to affect migration. The basic driving forces for migration are ecological and biogeographic factors like seasonality, spatiotemporal distributions of resources, habitats, predation and competition. The benefit of increased resource availability will be balanced by costs associated with the migratory process in terms of time (incl. losses of prior occupancy advantages), energy and mortality (incl. increased exposure to parasites). Furthermore, migration requires genetic instructions (allowing substantial room for learning in some of the traits) about timing, duration and distance of migration as well as about behavioural and physiological adaptations (fuelling, organ flexibility, locomotion, use of environmental transport etc) and control of orientation and navigation. To what degree these costs and requirements put constraints on migration often depends on body size according to different scaling relationships. From this expose it is clear that research on migration warrants a multitude of techniques and approaches for a complete as possible understanding of a very complex evolutionary syndrome. In addition, we also present examples of migratory distances in a variety of taxons. In recent years new techniques, especially satellite radio telemetry, provide new information of unprecedented accuracy about journeys of individual animals, allowing re-evaluation of migration, locomotion and navigation theories."

ME: I did read it, and now ask you where it explains instinct...Where do the chicks get the road map from...You are a real nong! you didn't read it yourself, or if you did, it is the name of the bloke that impressed you and you think that if someone has a whole lot of letters after his name he must be right in everything he says. All he did was try to explain why birds (and animals) migrate, not how they determine in what direction to go as 3 week old babies.

You stand as a complete idiot amongst your peers.

There is also a PDF if you like?

ME: As I have always known, there is no explanation from the evolutionists on this question OF MINE, just as there are no truthful answers to many questions from your mob. So the procedure is to first try to be as ignorant as you and your mob can be, and then try to cover your mistakes with more irrational rantings.

There are a couple of reasonable people on this forum that can have sensible discussions, but you and your mate, Crow Bait, are not in that category, by far.

You didn't read it then.

You have outright lied to me, had a temper tantrum because of a mistake YOU made and now will refuse to read evidence I acquired from a zoology professor (AKA someone more qualified to explain this subject than either you or me).

No, Peter. I think you aren't worth my time, nor anyone else. Have fun with your crazy beliefs.
VelCrow
Posts: 1,273
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6/2/2016 9:22:13 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 8:31:42 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 6:59:46 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/2/2016 5:26:28 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/2/2016 12:37:19 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:56:21 AM, Axonly wrote:
By the way, you don't need to apologize for the bird species mix up....You were just looking for some good ol mud to sling, I get it :3

ME: What a pathetic attempt to weasel out of a mistake...I was referring to the Muttonbird.

Quote:

Description
Short-tailed shearwater

Shearwaters are one of the world's
most remarkable migratory birds
(Photo by Steve Johnson)

The short-tailed shearwater, or mutton bird as it is often known, is a member of a group of 60 medium to large seabirds in the family Procellaridae. This family includes species such as petrels and prions. All members of the family have tube-like nostrils on the top of their upper beak and are believed to be one of the few bird families with a well-developed sense of smell. Almost all breed in burrows and, like the albatrosses, are truly impressive oceanic fliers

Anyway, to save you from further embarrassment. Here is the explanation of evolution of innate behaviors, courtesy of a zoology professor I contacted:

ME: So you had the inane audacity to claim my question as your own....Typical of the mentally retarded.

"Your question is an excellent one that has attracted considerable research attention, and there is no simple answer. The abstract below, from a 2003 review, outlines some of the salient issues. I have also attached a 2014 paper from the prestigious journal PNAS that delves in to this question for spring birds in North America.

Cheers


Thomas Alerstam, Anders Hedenstrom and Susanne Akesson Alerstam, T., Hedenstrdm, A. and Akesson, S. 2003. Long-distance migration: evolution and determinants. - Oikos 103: 247-260.

Long-distance migration has evolved in many organisms moving through different media and using various modes of locomotion and transport. Migration continues to evolve or become suppressed as shown by ongoing dynamic and rapid changes of migration patterns. This great evolutionary flexibility may seem surprising for such a complex attribute as migration. Even if migration in most cases has evolved basically as a strategy to maximise fitness in a seasonal environment, its occurrence and extent depend on a multitude of factors. We give a brief overview of different factors (e.g. physical, geographical, historical, ecological) likely to facilitate and/or constrain the evolution of long-distance migration and discuss how they are likely to affect migration. The basic driving forces for migration are ecological and biogeographic factors like seasonality, spatiotemporal distributions of resources, habitats, predation and competition. The benefit of increased resource availability will be balanced by costs associated with the migratory process in terms of time (incl. losses of prior occupancy advantages), energy and mortality (incl. increased exposure to parasites). Furthermore, migration requires genetic instructions (allowing substantial room for learning in some of the traits) about timing, duration and distance of migration as well as about behavioural and physiological adaptations (fuelling, organ flexibility, locomotion, use of environmental transport etc) and control of orientation and navigation. To what degree these costs and requirements put constraints on migration often depends on body size according to different scaling relationships. From this expose it is clear that research on migration warrants a multitude of techniques and approaches for a complete as possible understanding of a very complex evolutionary syndrome. In addition, we also present examples of migratory distances in a variety of taxons. In recent years new techniques, especially satellite radio telemetry, provide new information of unprecedented accuracy about journeys of individual animals, allowing re-evaluation of migration, locomotion and navigation theories."

There is also a PDF if you like?

ME: As I have always known, there is no explanation from the evolutionists on this question OF MINE, just as there are no truthful answers to many questions from your mob. So the procedure is to first try to be as ignorant as you and your mob can be, and then try to cover your mistakes with more irrational rantings.

There are a couple of reasonable people on this forum that can have sensible discussions, but you and your mate, Crow Bait, are not in that category, by far.

You didn't read it then.

You have outright lied to me, had a temper tantrum because of a mistake YOU made and now will refuse to read evidence I acquired from a zoology professor (AKA someone more qualified to explain this subject than either you or me).

No, Peter. I think you aren't worth my time, nor anyone else. Have fun with your crazy beliefs.

Told you long ago.

Evolutionist : Evolution is a result of a random mutation in an organism that gives it a slight advantage in surviving, and thus by laws of natural selection passes on this trait to its offsprings where those with stronger mutation of particular traits are able to survive better and thus continue this cycle until said random mutation is no longer a minority in the species and is possess by a majority of the population. By laws of natural selection, those random mutations that gives disadvantage to the species makes it harder for them to die off and thus discontinue the genetic lineage.

Creationist listens to the first 8 words and spews "Evolution says we are here thanks to blind chance".

They don't bother reading and they love to misquote for the sake of arguments.
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

http://www.debate.org...
Evidence
Posts: 853
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6/2/2016 8:09:48 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 7:21:25 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/1/2016 6:51:48 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:29:54 AM, Axonly wrote:
The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Does this even happen? All google searches suggest that the WTS is cared for until fledging is complete.

ME: definitely not made up, I can assure you.

The young chicks hatch in the third week of January after an incubation period averaging 53 days. Both parents participate in feeding the chick. The chick quickly puts on weight and before the departure of the parents, is almost twice the weight of an adult. The adults depart from early April leaving behind the young birds still covered in down. From this time until early May the chicks do not eat at all. They rapidly lose weight and acquire their flight feathers. The young spend an increasing amount of time outside the burrow, slowly moving closer to the shore and exercising their wings. Two to three weeks after the parents have left, the young birds begin their migratory flight unassisted by experienced birds.

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au...

Don't apologize, you thought you were on to a good old mud sling...I understand.

The bird you are quoting now is the "Short-tailed shearwater" (Puffinnus tenuirostris), in your original post, you called it the "Wedge Tailed Shearwater" which is "Ardenna pacificus". Their completely different species (Although they are in the same genus). Apology pls.

Also, apparently WTS only lay a single egg.

ME: are you questioning me when say "Chicks", they may lay only one egg but there are many that lay eggs, as you will see form the site I gave you.

Wedge tails allegedly lay only a single egg

Please put your reference site her so I can check your authenticity, or were you just making things up?

Looks like you were :)

Are you just making things up now?

ME: So, you are going to explain instinct now.....OH! Goody!!!!!

Instinct is a tricky topic to explain, especially considering how difficult it is to find information about the migration tactics of one bird species.

As the link you sent explains, these young birds migrate without assistance from their parents. Since migration behavior is either learnt or innate, it must be an innate behavior. Innate behavior is genetically determined, some examples of this is our instinct to breath, or when we squint when a ball is about to hit us in the face.


In Evolution, animals like humans have no free will, their mind is created by the millions and billions of years of influence of their environment and the food they ate. So not only does the human-animal breath and squint by instinct, they talk, dream reason and yes "create" by instinct also.

"Man is the result of a purposeless and natural process that did not have him in mind." --George Gaylord Simpson

Remember, evolution has no purpose, which means the chemicals your brain made up that gives you this delusion you are actually reasoning with intent, or exercising your free-will is nothing but millions and billions of environmental influence and the burrito you ate for breakfast
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root. - Henry David Thoreau
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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6/3/2016 6:17:35 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 8:09:48 PM, Evidence wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:21:25 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/1/2016 6:51:48 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:29:54 AM, Axonly wrote:
The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Does this even happen? All google searches suggest that the WTS is cared for until fledging is complete.

ME: definitely not made up, I can assure you.

The young chicks hatch in the third week of January after an incubation period averaging 53 days. Both parents participate in feeding the chick. The chick quickly puts on weight and before the departure of the parents, is almost twice the weight of an adult. The adults depart from early April leaving behind the young birds still covered in down. From this time until early May the chicks do not eat at all. They rapidly lose weight and acquire their flight feathers. The young spend an increasing amount of time outside the burrow, slowly moving closer to the shore and exercising their wings. Two to three weeks after the parents have left, the young birds begin their migratory flight unassisted by experienced birds.

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au...

Don't apologize, you thought you were on to a good old mud sling...I understand.

The bird you are quoting now is the "Short-tailed shearwater" (Puffinnus tenuirostris), in your original post, you called it the "Wedge Tailed Shearwater" which is "Ardenna pacificus". Their completely different species (Although they are in the same genus). Apology pls.

Also, apparently WTS only lay a single egg.

ME: are you questioning me when say "Chicks", they may lay only one egg but there are many that lay eggs, as you will see form the site I gave you.

Wedge tails allegedly lay only a single egg

Please put your reference site her so I can check your authenticity, or were you just making things up?

Looks like you were :)

Are you just making things up now?

ME: So, you are going to explain instinct now.....OH! Goody!!!!!

Instinct is a tricky topic to explain, especially considering how difficult it is to find information about the migration tactics of one bird species.

As the link you sent explains, these young birds migrate without assistance from their parents. Since migration behavior is either learnt or innate, it must be an innate behavior. Innate behavior is genetically determined, some examples of this is our instinct to breath, or when we squint when a ball is about to hit us in the face.


In Evolution, animals like humans have no free will, their mind is created by the millions and billions of years of influence of their environment and the food they ate. So not only does the human-animal breath and squint by instinct, they talk, dream reason and yes "create" by instinct also.

ME: No free will, Crap!!!!, I wont read any further.

"Man is the result of a purposeless and natural process that did not have him in mind." --George Gaylord Simpson

Remember, evolution has no purpose, which means the chemicals your brain made up that gives you this delusion you are actually reasoning with intent, or exercising your free-will is nothing but millions and billions of environmental influence and the burrito you ate for breakfast
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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6/3/2016 6:26:40 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/1/2016 8:52:33 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Instinct is interesting tho'. If we ignore the inevitable line-noise from certain quarters we can still have a good discussion.

i'd suggest that instinct arises because a hard-wired reponse can be implemented using far fewer neurones than are needed to produce the intelligence required to produce the same result. A spider that consciously worked out how to spin its a web would need a huge brain to do it.

ME: Exactly...It was the Creator's brain.

I'd put pain/pleasure in the same category. Avoiding injury is important for survival, but knowing why avoiding injuries is important isn't. So pain evolves as a means of getting critters to avoid injuries without having to give them the smarts required to understand or learn anything beyond that somethings bl**dy hurt. At least in the old days that was the basis of giving toddlers a good smack if they put their fingers in a power socket. A two-year old might not be able understand the dangers of electricity but they can understand if they do it again they will get a smack!

ME: That is not instinct, it is a lesson learned. as are many life's lessons.
Experience is the best teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

The connection between pleasure and reproduction hardly needs commenting on.... I am dam' sure few non-human animals, um, copulate because they actually know its the way to make babies. I am not even sure that it's clear to human teenagers.

ME: The mutton Bird Chicks would have never been given a direction in direction. Some of the Chicks head in the wrong direction, (WHY?????) and end up crashing inland.

Pigeons fly in a circle before they set off in a journey. This is 'Swinging the Compass' and it is a very interesting attribute to read about. Other birds get their direction from one eye only (why???) but I do not know of another bird that leaves the chicks to find their own way. I am not saying there are none.

Instinct is more in the category of a conscience, although animals and birds have no conscience.
Evidence
Posts: 853
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6/3/2016 9:46:42 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/3/2016 6:17:35 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/2/2016 8:09:48 PM, Evidence wrote:
At 6/1/2016 7:21:25 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 6/1/2016 6:51:48 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 6/1/2016 1:29:54 AM, Axonly wrote:
The chicks, after 3 weeks of no tucker from mum or dad, soon get up to flying and off they go, directly to where their parents could be , up to three different places but in the same general area.

The chicks go straight to mum and dad and everyone is happy and mum pats the youngster on the head for being a clever little birdie.

Does this even happen? All google searches suggest that the WTS is cared for until fledging is complete.

ME: definitely not made up, I can assure you.

The young chicks hatch in the third week of January after an incubation period averaging 53 days. Both parents participate in feeding the chick. The chick quickly puts on weight and before the departure of the parents, is almost twice the weight of an adult. The adults depart from early April leaving behind the young birds still covered in down. From this time until early May the chicks do not eat at all. They rapidly lose weight and acquire their flight feathers. The young spend an increasing amount of time outside the burrow, slowly moving closer to the shore and exercising their wings. Two to three weeks after the parents have left, the young birds begin their migratory flight unassisted by experienced birds.

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au...

Don't apologize, you thought you were on to a good old mud sling...I understand.

The bird you are quoting now is the "Short-tailed shearwater" (Puffinnus tenuirostris), in your original post, you called it the "Wedge Tailed Shearwater" which is "Ardenna pacificus". Their completely different species (Although they are in the same genus). Apology pls.

Also, apparently WTS only lay a single egg.

ME: are you questioning me when say "Chicks", they may lay only one egg but there are many that lay eggs, as you will see form the site I gave you.

Wedge tails allegedly lay only a single egg

Please put your reference site her so I can check your authenticity, or were you just making things up?

Looks like you were :)

Are you just making things up now?

ME: So, you are going to explain instinct now.....OH! Goody!!!!!

Instinct is a tricky topic to explain, especially considering how difficult it is to find information about the migration tactics of one bird species.

As the link you sent explains, these young birds migrate without assistance from their parents. Since migration behavior is either learnt or innate, it must be an innate behavior. Innate behavior is genetically determined, some examples of this is our instinct to breath, or when we squint when a ball is about to hit us in the face.


In Evolution, animals like humans have no free will, their mind is created by the millions and billions of years of influence of their environment and the food they ate. So not only does the human-animal breath and squint by instinct, they talk, dream reason and yes "create" by instinct also.

ME: No free will, Crap!!!!, I wont read any further.


Wait, .. is this the "science" section? Yep, it sure is, but I forgot that this site has it in reverse, science=religion here, .. sorry, my apologies, .. as you were.
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root. - Henry David Thoreau