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Shocking Russian Experiment

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/22/2010 3:36:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
(Strongly cautioned, this video is graphic and shocking, though not so much that they wouldn't allow it on youtube)

The actual footage starts about half-way through. It's insane how this is possible. This experiment was conducted to help with constructing the first artificial heart technology. Do you feel things like this are necessary or way too far?
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fnord
SoSilly
Posts: 1
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12/22/2010 9:44:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why do you think it's in black and white? They know we would want them to find a more ethical way nowadays (and hopefully they would too), and I'm pretty sure there is.

Forgive me if I lack knowledge on the subject. :P
FREEDO
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12/22/2010 3:30:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 9:44:59 AM, SoSilly wrote:
Why do you think it's in black and white? They know we would want them to find a more ethical way nowadays (and hopefully they would too), and I'm pretty sure there is.

Forgive me if I lack knowledge on the subject. :P

Um...it's in black and white becaaaaause...the footage is old?? Yeah.
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fnord
FREEDO
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12/22/2010 3:31:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 3:30:56 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2010 9:44:59 AM, SoSilly wrote:
Why do you think it's in black and white? They know we would want them to find a more ethical way nowadays (and hopefully they would too), and I'm pretty sure there is.

Forgive me if I lack knowledge on the subject. :P

Um...it's in black and white becaaaaause...the footage is old?? Yeah.

Maybe that's it. It's just a hunch.
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fnord
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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12/22/2010 4:18:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 9:44:59 AM, SoSilly wrote:
Why do you think it's in black and white? They know we would want them to find a more ethical way nowadays (and hopefully they would too), and I'm pretty sure there is.

Forgive me if I lack knowledge on the subject. :P

First off, i dont see how this is shocking to anyone. Russians are always the craziest of the bunch. They couldnt care less about ethics or morals.

Secondly, I dont find using a dog, any more different than using labrats.
FREEDO
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12/22/2010 4:21:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 4:18:41 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 12/22/2010 9:44:59 AM, SoSilly wrote:
Why do you think it's in black and white? They know we would want them to find a more ethical way nowadays (and hopefully they would too), and I'm pretty sure there is.

Forgive me if I lack knowledge on the subject. :P

First off, i dont see how this is shocking to anyone. Russians are always the craziest of the bunch. They couldnt care less about ethics or morals.

Secondly, I dont find using a dog, any more different than using labrats.

First, horrible generalization.
Second, do rats feel less pain than dogs?
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fnord
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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12/22/2010 5:16:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 4:21:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Second, do rats feel less pain than dogs?

Of course they do silly, they're smaller.
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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12/22/2010 6:17:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 4:21:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2010 4:18:41 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 12/22/2010 9:44:59 AM, SoSilly wrote:
Why do you think it's in black and white? They know we would want them to find a more ethical way nowadays (and hopefully they would too), and I'm pretty sure there is.

Forgive me if I lack knowledge on the subject. :P

First off, i dont see how this is shocking to anyone. Russians are always the craziest of the bunch. They couldnt care less about ethics or morals.

Secondly, I dont find using a dog, any more different than using labrats.

First, horrible generalization.
Second, do rats feel less pain than dogs?

Im talking about scientists. I dunno, it seems an apt generalization.

Rats feel as much pain as dogs.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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12/22/2010 6:25:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 4:21:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Second, do rats feel less pain than dogs?

Why does that matter?
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
nonentity
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12/22/2010 6:30:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 6:17:24 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 12/22/2010 4:21:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2010 4:18:41 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 12/22/2010 9:44:59 AM, SoSilly wrote:
Why do you think it's in black and white? They know we would want them to find a more ethical way nowadays (and hopefully they would too), and I'm pretty sure there is.

Forgive me if I lack knowledge on the subject. :P

First off, i dont see how this is shocking to anyone. Russians are always the craziest of the bunch. They couldnt care less about ethics or morals.

Secondly, I dont find using a dog, any more different than using labrats.

First, horrible generalization.
Second, do rats feel less pain than dogs?

Im talking about scientists. I dunno, it seems an apt generalization.

Rats feel as much pain as dogs.

I think cutting off a head and keeping the animal alive is a little more cruel than shocks from pressing a lever...
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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12/22/2010 6:30:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Just watched the video...that is freaking amazing if it's real.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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12/23/2010 6:35:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 6:30:59 PM, Korashk wrote:
Just watched the video...that is freaking amazing if it's real.

Finally, someone else who saw this and thought "That's f*cking kick-@ss"
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/29/2010 3:35:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 3:36:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
(Strongly cautioned, this video is graphic and shocking, though not so much that they wouldn't allow it on youtube)

The actual footage starts about half-way through. It's insane how this is possible. This experiment was conducted to help with constructing the first artificial heart technology. Do you feel things like this are necessary or way too far?:

Well, that was disturbing, but looking at it from a clinical perspective, that was really cool... not to mention unexpected. It's like complex thought like (holy fvck, I have no body) is removed, and simple reaction still stimuli remains.

To answer your question more directly, it's too far IF the dog didn't initially die by natural causes.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/29/2010 4:13:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 4:21:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2010 4:18:41 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 12/22/2010 9:44:59 AM, SoSilly wrote:
Why do you think it's in black and white? They know we would want them to find a more ethical way nowadays (and hopefully they would too), and I'm pretty sure there is.

Forgive me if I lack knowledge on the subject. :P

First off, i dont see how this is shocking to anyone. Russians are always the craziest of the bunch. They couldnt care less about ethics or morals.

Secondly, I dont find using a dog, any more different than using labrats.

First, horrible generalization.
Second, do rats feel less pain than dogs?

Definitely this.
gavin.ogden
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12/29/2010 4:15:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 3:35:25 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 12/22/2010 3:36:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
(Strongly cautioned, this video is graphic and shocking, though not so much that they wouldn't allow it on youtube)

The actual footage starts about half-way through. It's insane how this is possible. This experiment was conducted to help with constructing the first artificial heart technology. Do you feel things like this are necessary or way too far?:

Well, that was disturbing, but looking at it from a clinical perspective, that was really cool... not to mention unexpected. It's like complex thought like (holy fvck, I have no body) is removed, and simple reaction still stimuli remains.

To answer your question more directly, it's too far IF the dog didn't initially die by natural causes.

Okay, we need a like/dislike button. gavin.ogden likes this.
Ogan
Posts: 407
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12/29/2010 5:37:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well, that was disturbing, but looking at it from a clinical perspective, that was really cool... not to mention unexpected. It's like complex thought like (holy fvck, I have no body) is removed, and simple reaction still stimuli remains.

Ogan: What was disturbing was that human beings felt the need to prove what was already obvious to any sensible person - that the brain only needs life-blood for it to persist. This is similar to one paralysed from the neck down where the only stimili is in the head. The fact that an artificial blood supply takes the place of the normal heart supply is by the way and has been known for a long time.

(To answer your question more directly, it's too far IF the dog didn't initially die by natural causes.)

Ogan: Again I would suggest that IF the dog was already dead prior to the experiment, then the stimuli would have been much, much less. I suggest that they operated carefully on a living dog replacing its blood system first, then severed the rest of the body and experimented with the living dog's senses. What have they learned from this cruelty? That the brain needs fresh blood to carry on - which we already know! What utter stupidity and ignorance.
gavin.ogden
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12/29/2010 5:59:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 5:37:48 PM, Ogan wrote:
Well, that was disturbing, but looking at it from a clinical perspective, that was really cool... not to mention unexpected. It's like complex thought like (holy fvck, I have no body) is removed, and simple reaction still stimuli remains.

Ogan: What was disturbing was that human beings felt the need to prove what was already obvious to any sensible person - that the brain only needs life-blood for it to persist. This is similar to one paralysed from the neck down where the only stimili is in the head. The fact that an artificial blood supply takes the place of the normal heart supply is by the way and has been known for a long time.

(To answer your question more directly, it's too far IF the dog didn't initially die by natural causes.)

Ogan: Again I would suggest that IF the dog was already dead prior to the experiment, then the stimuli would have been much, much less. I suggest that they operated carefully on a living dog replacing its blood system first, then severed the rest of the body and experimented with the living dog's senses. What have they learned from this cruelty? That the brain needs fresh blood to carry on - which we already know! What utter stupidity and ignorance.

Well put.
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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12/29/2010 6:15:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 5:37:48 PM, Ogan wrote:
Well, that was disturbing, but looking at it from a clinical perspective, that was really cool... not to mention unexpected. It's like complex thought like (holy fvck, I have no body) is removed, and simple reaction still stimuli remains.

Ogan: What was disturbing was that human beings felt the need to prove what was already obvious to any sensible person - that the brain only needs life-blood for it to persist. This is similar to one paralysed from the neck down where the only stimili is in the head. The fact that an artificial blood supply takes the place of the normal heart supply is by the way and has been known for a long time.

(To answer your question more directly, it's too far IF the dog didn't initially die by natural causes.)

Ogan: Again I would suggest that IF the dog was already dead prior to the experiment, then the stimuli would have been much, much less. I suggest that they operated carefully on a living dog replacing its blood system first, then severed the rest of the body and experimented with the living dog's senses. What have they learned from this cruelty? That the brain needs fresh blood to carry on - which we already know! What utter stupidity and ignorance.

This
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/29/2010 6:20:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/22/2010 4:21:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/22/2010 4:18:41 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 12/22/2010 9:44:59 AM, SoSilly wrote:
Why do you think it's in black and white? They know we would want them to find a more ethical way nowadays (and hopefully they would too), and I'm pretty sure there is.

Forgive me if I lack knowledge on the subject. :P

First off, i dont see how this is shocking to anyone. Russians are always the craziest of the bunch. They couldnt care less about ethics or morals.

Secondly, I dont find using a dog, any more different than using labrats.

First, horrible generalization.
Second, do rats feel less pain than dogs?

it's not about the pain, it's about we don't care about rats as much as dogs.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/29/2010 6:21:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/23/2010 6:35:20 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 12/22/2010 6:30:59 PM, Korashk wrote:
Just watched the video...that is freaking amazing if it's real.

Finally, someone else who saw this and thought "That's f*cking kick-@ss"

Not if you're the dog.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
I-am-a-panda
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12/30/2010 8:14:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 6:21:05 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/23/2010 6:35:20 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 12/22/2010 6:30:59 PM, Korashk wrote:
Just watched the video...that is freaking amazing if it's real.

Finally, someone else who saw this and thought "That's f*cking kick-@ss"

Not if you're the dog.

Yeah, but other than that perspective, it's f*cking awesome.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/30/2010 8:15:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
What have they learned from this cruelty? That the brain needs fresh blood to carry on - which we already know! What utter stupidity and ignorance.:

The point, I'm guessing, is to see if a mind can live on without a body in the future. The long-term benefit may be to study the brain of highly intelligent people.

But there is certainly an ethical problem associated with it. For instance, suppose that this was done, either willingly or against your will. So your mind is aware and you can do nothing to stop it. You're trapped with no way to communicate to them (no vocal chords) that you want them to pull the plug.

In the final analysis though, I do agree with you. It's unnecessary cruelty.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/1/2011 7:40:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 8:15:00 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
What have they learned from this cruelty? That the brain needs fresh blood to carry on - which we already know! What utter stupidity and ignorance.:

The point, I'm guessing, is to see if a mind can live on without a body in the future. The long-term benefit may be to study the brain of highly intelligent people.

But there is certainly an ethical problem associated with it. For instance, suppose that this was done, either willingly or against your will. So your mind is aware and you can do nothing to stop it. You're trapped with no way to communicate to them (no vocal chords) that you want them to pull the plug.

In the final analysis though, I do agree with you. It's unnecessary cruelty.

Futurama time!

I wonder how such an act would alter one's life span?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
T1000
Posts: 15
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1/4/2011 7:52:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/1/2011 7:40:52 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/30/2010 8:15:00 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
What have they learned from this cruelty? That the brain needs fresh blood to carry on - which we already know! What utter stupidity and ignorance.:

The point, I'm guessing, is to see if a mind can live on without a body in the future. The long-term benefit may be to study the brain of highly intelligent people.

The scientist that performed this experiment was Vladimir Petrovich Demikhov. The success of the Russian in the head transplants then lead to Robert J. White an American scientist that perform head transplants on monkeys.

He got to the point that the transplanted head could have survived indefinitely. The only problem being the damage done to the spine during the operation, the body with the transplanted head would be paralyzed from the neck down.

Still interesting stuff especially considering advancements in stem cell research that could repair the damage done to the spine.

...A old person could put his head on a young persons body...