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The Hominid Hobbit

distraff
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7/15/2016 2:04:48 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Lets first go over what we have found of this species.

We have found several specimens of Homo Fiorensis (hobbit) the first was found in 2003 and is called LB1. Here is a picture of her below. She was found on java and was about 80,000 years old.
https://thesebonesofmine.files.wordpress.com...

We found a bunch of primitive stone tools with her in the same site dating from 90-13,000 years ago which makes them the last known hominid to survive.
http://www.d.umn.edu...
http://www.talkorigins.org...

We have found five more specimens LB2-LB5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

We have found some 700,000 year old teeth that have some similarities to homo erectus and match the teeth and jaw of ones we have already found. We have also found some other stone tools at another site on the island that is 840,000 years old that contains similar tools to the ones we found previously.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com...
http://www.talkorigins.org...
https://www.theguardian.com...

So it looks like the hobbit lived on this island about 840,000 - 13,000 years ago. So what makes them special? Well the adults are about 3.5 feet tall and this is really small as pygmies are a little under 5 feet tall making hobbits the smallest hominids ever. Very few modern humans are so short and the shortest we have on record are 2 to 2.5 feet tall.

So why do we think they are hominids? First, humans have only been around for 200,000 years while hobbits have been around much earlier. Second, their cranial capacity is only 400 cc. The average human cranial capacity is about 1400 cc while chimps average about 300 cc with the largest being 400 cc. So hobbits have brain sizes more like apes. 900 cc in a human is considered very small.
http://www.talkorigins.org...
http://www.efossils.org...
http://humanorigins.si.edu...
http://humanorigins.si.edu...

What really matter is brain size compared to body size. Their body is about 25 kg while their brains is about 400 cc so it is 16 cc per kg. The average human brain is about 1400 cc and the average weight is about 60 kg which makes ours 23 cc per kg which is far larger than hobbits. The chimpanzee has about a 350 cc brain and weights on average 45 kg which makes them 8 cc per kg. Australopithecus which were early hominids weighed about as much as chimps and had a cranial capacity of 400 cc which places them at 9 cc per kg. Homo erectus which were later hominids had 1000 cc cranial capacity while weighing about 55 kg which places them at 18 cc per kg.
http://humanorigins.si.edu...
http://anthro.palomar.edu...

Also, when you visually compare the hobbit skull to the human skull you find that the brain case is much smaller compared to the rest of the skull than a human. Notice that it has almost no forehead area just like homo erectus, other hominids, and apes. This means a greatly reduced frontal lobe which is what sets humans apart from other apes.
http://www.btnrc.org...

What is interesting is that their brain size to body weight is very close to homo erectus. We find the last homo erectus. Homo erectus are first seen about 2 million years ago and are last seen between 100,000 and 50,000 years ago. These are the other late hominids we find and homo erectus predate hobbits. We find the first homo erectus fossils in Africa and only at about 900,000 do we see them outside Africa and in Asia.
http://australianmuseum.net.au...

This migration date matches the first hobbit traces we see (840,000 years ago) and which could have happened is that homo erectus got trapped on some islands and evolved to be very short in the same way we see in some human tribes. The fact their cranial capacity to body weight ratio is so similar to erectus and that their teech match those of erectus very well makes this the most likely explanation.
https://www.theguardian.com...
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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8/22/2016 5:46:49 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 7/15/2016 2:04:48 AM, distraff wrote:
Lets first go over what we have found of this species.

We have found several specimens of Homo Fiorensis (hobbit) the first was found in 2003 and is called LB1. Here is a picture of her below. She was found on java and was about 80,000 years old.
https://thesebonesofmine.files.wordpress.com...

We found a bunch of primitive stone tools with her in the same site dating from 90-13,000 years ago which makes them the last known hominid to survive.
http://www.d.umn.edu...
http://www.talkorigins.org...

We have found five more specimens LB2-LB5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

We have found some 700,000 year old teeth that have some similarities to homo erectus and match the teeth and jaw of ones we have already found. We have also found some other stone tools at another site on the island that is 840,000 years old that contains similar tools to the ones we found previously.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com...
http://www.talkorigins.org...
https://www.theguardian.com...

So it looks like the hobbit lived on this island about 840,000 - 13,000 years ago. So what makes them special? Well the adults are about 3.5 feet tall and this is really small as pygmies are a little under 5 feet tall making hobbits the smallest hominids ever. Very few modern humans are so short and the shortest we have on record are 2 to 2.5 feet tall.

So why do we think they are hominids? First, humans have only been around for 200,000 years while hobbits have been around much earlier. Second, their cranial capacity is only 400 cc. The average human cranial capacity is about 1400 cc while chimps average about 300 cc with the largest being 400 cc. So hobbits have brain sizes more like apes. 900 cc in a human is considered very small.
http://www.talkorigins.org...
http://www.efossils.org...
http://humanorigins.si.edu...
http://humanorigins.si.edu...

What really matter is brain size compared to body size. Their body is about 25 kg while their brains is about 400 cc so it is 16 cc per kg. The average human brain is about 1400 cc and the average weight is about 60 kg which makes ours 23 cc per kg which is far larger than hobbits. The chimpanzee has about a 350 cc brain and weights on average 45 kg which makes them 8 cc per kg. Australopithecus which were early hominids weighed about as much as chimps and had a cranial capacity of 400 cc which places them at 9 cc per kg. Homo erectus which were later hominids had 1000 cc cranial capacity while weighing about 55 kg which places them at 18 cc per kg.
http://humanorigins.si.edu...
http://anthro.palomar.edu...

Also, when you visually compare the hobbit skull to the human skull you find that the brain case is much smaller compared to the rest of the skull than a human. Notice that it has almost no forehead area just like homo erectus, other hominids, and apes. This means a greatly reduced frontal lobe which is what sets humans apart from other apes.
http://www.btnrc.org...

What is interesting is that their brain size to body weight is very close to homo erectus. We find the last homo erectus. Homo erectus are first seen about 2 million years ago and are last seen between 100,000 and 50,000 years ago. These are the other late hominids we find and homo erectus predate hobbits. We find the first homo erectus fossils in Africa and only at about 900,000 do we see them outside Africa and in Asia.
http://australianmuseum.net.au...

This migration date matches the first hobbit traces we see (840,000 years ago) and which could have happened is that homo erectus got trapped on some islands and evolved to be very short in the same way we see in some human tribes. The fact their cranial capacity to body weight ratio is so similar to erectus and that their teech match those of erectus very well makes this the most likely explanation.
https://www.theguardian.com...

Im quite surprised this hasn't attracted creationist attention.
Meh!
distraff
Posts: 1,004
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8/22/2016 6:01:40 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 5:46:49 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 7/15/2016 2:04:48 AM, distraff wrote:
Lets first go over what we have found of this species.

We have found several specimens of Homo Fiorensis (hobbit) the first was found in 2003 and is called LB1. Here is a picture of her below. She was found on java and was about 80,000 years old.
https://thesebonesofmine.files.wordpress.com...

We found a bunch of primitive stone tools with her in the same site dating from 90-13,000 years ago which makes them the last known hominid to survive.
http://www.d.umn.edu...
http://www.talkorigins.org...

We have found five more specimens LB2-LB5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

We have found some 700,000 year old teeth that have some similarities to homo erectus and match the teeth and jaw of ones we have already found. We have also found some other stone tools at another site on the island that is 840,000 years old that contains similar tools to the ones we found previously.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com...
http://www.talkorigins.org...
https://www.theguardian.com...

So it looks like the hobbit lived on this island about 840,000 - 13,000 years ago. So what makes them special? Well the adults are about 3.5 feet tall and this is really small as pygmies are a little under 5 feet tall making hobbits the smallest hominids ever. Very few modern humans are so short and the shortest we have on record are 2 to 2.5 feet tall.

So why do we think they are hominids? First, humans have only been around for 200,000 years while hobbits have been around much earlier. Second, their cranial capacity is only 400 cc. The average human cranial capacity is about 1400 cc while chimps average about 300 cc with the largest being 400 cc. So hobbits have brain sizes more like apes. 900 cc in a human is considered very small.
http://www.talkorigins.org...
http://www.efossils.org...
http://humanorigins.si.edu...
http://humanorigins.si.edu...

What really matter is brain size compared to body size. Their body is about 25 kg while their brains is about 400 cc so it is 16 cc per kg. The average human brain is about 1400 cc and the average weight is about 60 kg which makes ours 23 cc per kg which is far larger than hobbits. The chimpanzee has about a 350 cc brain and weights on average 45 kg which makes them 8 cc per kg. Australopithecus which were early hominids weighed about as much as chimps and had a cranial capacity of 400 cc which places them at 9 cc per kg. Homo erectus which were later hominids had 1000 cc cranial capacity while weighing about 55 kg which places them at 18 cc per kg.
http://humanorigins.si.edu...
http://anthro.palomar.edu...

Also, when you visually compare the hobbit skull to the human skull you find that the brain case is much smaller compared to the rest of the skull than a human. Notice that it has almost no forehead area just like homo erectus, other hominids, and apes. This means a greatly reduced frontal lobe which is what sets humans apart from other apes.
http://www.btnrc.org...

What is interesting is that their brain size to body weight is very close to homo erectus. We find the last homo erectus. Homo erectus are first seen about 2 million years ago and are last seen between 100,000 and 50,000 years ago. These are the other late hominids we find and homo erectus predate hobbits. We find the first homo erectus fossils in Africa and only at about 900,000 do we see them outside Africa and in Asia.
http://australianmuseum.net.au...

This migration date matches the first hobbit traces we see (840,000 years ago) and which could have happened is that homo erectus got trapped on some islands and evolved to be very short in the same way we see in some human tribes. The fact their cranial capacity to body weight ratio is so similar to erectus and that their teech match those of erectus very well makes this the most likely explanation.
https://www.theguardian.com...

Im quite surprised this hasn't attracted creationist attention.

I shouldn't start threads with all the evidence. That scares creationists away.