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A.I. humanoid consciousness yea or nay?

AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 232
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8/3/2016 11:44:09 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
So...we are an the verge of humanoids being applied to everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Help me decide,

is A.I. humanoid consciousness a benefit or a disadvantage to humans.

I can't decide whether to be excited or completely terrified, lmao.

what are your thoughts? Are you excited? or Terrified?
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
janesix
Posts: 3,437
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8/4/2016 1:13:07 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 11:44:09 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
So...we are an the verge of humanoids being applied to everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Help me decide,

is A.I. humanoid consciousness a benefit or a disadvantage to humans.

I can't decide whether to be excited or completely terrified, lmao.

what are your thoughts? Are you excited? or Terrified?
A machine will never have consciousness.
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 232
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8/4/2016 1:25:20 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 1:13:07 AM, janesix wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:44:09 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
So...we are an the verge of humanoids being applied to everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Help me decide,

is A.I. humanoid consciousness a benefit or a disadvantage to humans.

I can't decide whether to be excited or completely terrified, lmao.

what are your thoughts? Are you excited? or Terrified?
A machine will never have consciousness.

Please explain how you've deduced that humanoids cannot obtain consciousness.

Because consciousness by definition is the state of being awake, able to perceive your surroundings, learn, be self aware. All of which have been demonstrated by the humanoids.
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
Torton
Posts: 988
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8/4/2016 1:31:04 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
No. We're still not even not even close to true artificial intelligence. However, if we ever do get that far, I really don't believe we should think in the binary of benefit/disadvantage to humans, especially seeing as such a breakthrough would inevitably lead to problems (or at least discussions) on things like personhood, citizenship, and the constitutionality of A.I., and whether they're entitled to the rights derived from it.
Torton
Posts: 988
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8/4/2016 1:42:38 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 1:13:07 AM, janesix wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:44:09 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
So...we are an the verge of humanoids being applied to everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Help me decide,

is A.I. humanoid consciousness a benefit or a disadvantage to humans.

I can't decide whether to be excited or completely terrified, lmao.

what are your thoughts? Are you excited? or Terrified?
A machine will never have consciousness.
Never? Why not?
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 232
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8/4/2016 1:47:01 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 1:31:04 AM, Torton wrote:
No. We're still not even not even close to true artificial intelligence. However, if we ever do get that far, I really don't believe we should think in the binary of benefit/disadvantage to humans, especially seeing as such a breakthrough would inevitably lead to problems (or at least discussions) on things like personhood, citizenship, and the constitutionality of A.I., and whether they're entitled to the rights derived from it.

what is true artificial intelligence? Are you making a reference to bio electronics? Kind of like a human, droid hybrid?
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 232
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8/4/2016 1:48:19 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Also guys check out Pepper, he's pretty cool

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

Would you get one when the next batch comes out?
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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8/4/2016 1:49:40 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 11:44:09 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
So...we are an the verge of humanoids being applied to everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Help me decide,

is A.I. humanoid consciousness a benefit or a disadvantage to humans.

I can't decide whether to be excited or completely terrified, lmao.

what are your thoughts? Are you excited? or Terrified?

I think there is definitely cause for alarm. I won't deny that the thought of a "machine slave" to do all my mundane chores is somewhat appealing, but if A.I. insinuates the ability to evolve intelligence at an ever increasing level (which seems to be the case) then there is no reason to believe that as the weaker "species" we are likely to become irrelevant.
Torton
Posts: 988
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8/4/2016 1:53:49 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 1:47:01 AM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
At 8/4/2016 1:31:04 AM, Torton wrote:
No. We're still not even not even close to true artificial intelligence. However, if we ever do get that far, I really don't believe we should think in the binary of benefit/disadvantage to humans, especially seeing as such a breakthrough would inevitably lead to problems (or at least discussions) on things like personhood, citizenship, and the constitutionality of A.I., and whether they're entitled to the rights derived from it.

what is true artificial intelligence? Are you making a reference to bio electronics? Kind of like a human, droid hybrid?
Essentially just a synonym of strong A.I. Bioelectronics is a different thing, entirely.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 232
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8/4/2016 2:03:04 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 1:53:49 AM, Torton wrote:
At 8/4/2016 1:47:01 AM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
At 8/4/2016 1:31:04 AM, Torton wrote:
No. We're still not even not even close to true artificial intelligence. However, if we ever do get that far, I really don't believe we should think in the binary of benefit/disadvantage to humans, especially seeing as such a breakthrough would inevitably lead to problems (or at least discussions) on things like personhood, citizenship, and the constitutionality of A.I., and whether they're entitled to the rights derived from it.

what is true artificial intelligence? Are you making a reference to bio electronics? Kind of like a human, droid hybrid?
Essentially just a synonym of strong A.I. Bioelectronics is a different thing, entirely.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

ok, i get it now.

so now I wonder how long is it going to take to get there, and will I experience AGI before I die....I plan on living until 100, so that gives the developers 63 years to make it happen.

Do you think it could be achieved in that time?
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 232
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8/4/2016 2:07:00 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 1:49:40 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:44:09 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
So...we are an the verge of humanoids being applied to everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Help me decide,

is A.I. humanoid consciousness a benefit or a disadvantage to humans.

I can't decide whether to be excited or completely terrified, lmao.

what are your thoughts? Are you excited? or Terrified?

I think there is definitely cause for alarm. I won't deny that the thought of a "machine slave" to do all my mundane chores is somewhat appealing, but if A.I. insinuates the ability to evolve intelligence at an ever increasing level (which seems to be the case) then there is no reason to believe that as the weaker "species" we are likely to become irrelevant.

very good point.

I wonder if the developers will create "checks and balances" like the three laws in iRobot.
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
Torton
Posts: 988
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8/4/2016 2:11:29 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 2:07:00 AM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
At 8/4/2016 1:49:40 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:44:09 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
So...we are an the verge of humanoids being applied to everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Help me decide,

is A.I. humanoid consciousness a benefit or a disadvantage to humans.

I can't decide whether to be excited or completely terrified, lmao.

what are your thoughts? Are you excited? or Terrified?

I think there is definitely cause for alarm. I won't deny that the thought of a "machine slave" to do all my mundane chores is somewhat appealing, but if A.I. insinuates the ability to evolve intelligence at an ever increasing level (which seems to be the case) then there is no reason to believe that as the weaker "species" we are likely to become irrelevant.

very good point.

I wonder if the developers will create "checks and balances" like the three laws in iRobot.
That probably wouldn't be a good idea, especially as it limits free will. A lot of Asimov's stories that involved the three laws were specifically to show why they don't work.
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 232
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8/4/2016 2:23:36 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
That probably wouldn't be a good idea, especially as it limits free will. A lot of Asimov's stories that involved the three laws were specifically to show why they don't work.

I've just learned that the hole in the three laws are created by the condition of human self destruction.

I'm surprised no one has provided a solution to this problem yet, though
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
KIND
Posts: 14
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8/4/2016 2:56:28 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Let us assume someone is eating a tasteless fruit No matter how good an actor he is pretending as if it is very sweet and tasty No matter how much time he spends practicing it The fruit was and will remain tasteless for him

Do not forget that artificial intelligence is called artificial intelligence
Torton
Posts: 988
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8/4/2016 3:00:46 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 2:56:28 AM, KIND wrote:
Let us assume someone is eating a tasteless fruit No matter how good an actor he is pretending as if it is very sweet and tasty No matter how much time he spends practicing it The fruit was and will remain tasteless for him

Do not forget that artificial intelligence is called artificial intelligence
Artificial as in man-made. If it ever becomes accomplished enough, it will be identical to human intelligence, so by all means not inferior.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,460
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8/4/2016 2:29:33 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 1:25:20 AM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
At 8/4/2016 1:13:07 AM, janesix wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:44:09 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
So...we are an the verge of humanoids being applied to everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Help me decide,

is A.I. humanoid consciousness a benefit or a disadvantage to humans.

I can't decide whether to be excited or completely terrified, lmao.

what are your thoughts? Are you excited? or Terrified?
A machine will never have consciousness.

Please explain how you've deduced that humanoids cannot obtain consciousness.

Because consciousness by definition is the state of being awake, able to perceive your surroundings, learn, be self aware. All of which have been demonstrated by the humanoids.

Only the self can know if the self is aware. So this issue can never be 'demonstrated'. It's a metaphysical question, and can only be answered by the human spirit and not the human brain.

And I'm with Jane6 - computers are machines and always will be. They can mimic human behavior, but can't be human. And since we already have humans, and it's great fun to make more of them, I think it's a bit of a waste of time trying to make fake ones. I think the best computer applications are when we use computers as machines - like google, or bar code scanning. So human-like user interfaces, yeah, dynamite, but real robotics or AI or whatever - it's always going to be fun and games, in my opinion.
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v3nesl
Posts: 4,460
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8/4/2016 2:35:32 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 2:11:29 AM, Torton wrote:
...
That probably wouldn't be a good idea, especially as it limits free will.

And free will must be supernatural. It can't be only the deterministic outcome of physical inputs or it's not free. So free will can help us see that sophisticated machinery is not sufficient to generate human-like sentience. Human sentience is something else altogether.

For anyone who would like to read this concept developed fully, check out the first part of C.S. Lewis' book "Miracles". It's brilliant, but fair warning - it will make your head explode if you've fully bought into post-modern naturalism.
This space for rent.
wuliheron
Posts: 105
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8/4/2016 3:35:01 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
A hundred years ago Max Planck begged his colleges to explain the joke, complaining that a sense of humor was never on his list of job requirements. What he might have suspected, could not know, is that he was merely the first to encounter this particular joke and within a century or so academic slapstick would never be the same again. Beauty and humor are indivisible complimentary-opposites, or yin-yang, and western civilization has arisen to its lofty heights by pounding on the excluded middle suppressing their own sense of humor. That might sound like an exaggeration on my part, but the US government finally admitted this year they have classified a few jokes as "Vital to the National Defense."

AI will soon be able to predict every pie in the face academics will encounter from their own work just as Planck encountered.
wuliheron
Posts: 105
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8/4/2016 5:43:16 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 4:56:14 PM, keithprosser wrote:
Why can genuine intelligence/consciousness be produced in a womb but not in a factory?

They now have artificial wombs in factories.
keithprosser
Posts: 1,905
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8/4/2016 6:11:31 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I am not sure if the is an answer to my question or not...

My intended point was that the idea that an artificial mind is impossible seems to imply there is something biology can do that engineering can't. I get the impression that people don't just mean brains are super-complicated and its super difficult to emulate their operation. They mean the 'mind' aspects of a brain cannot be produced mechanically no matter how complicated the machine.

I don't know how such views can be justified.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,460
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8/4/2016 7:31:16 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 6:11:31 PM, keithprosser wrote:
I am not sure if the is an answer to my question or not...

My intended point was that the idea that an artificial mind is impossible seems to imply there is something biology can do that engineering can't. I get the impression that people don't just mean brains are super-complicated and its super difficult to emulate their operation. They mean the 'mind' aspects of a brain cannot be produced mechanically no matter how complicated the machine.

I don't know how such views can be justified.

Such views are justified by observing that mind obeys different laws from matter. 'Mechanical' produces well known deterministic reactions, and clearly mind is something other than that.

But you can only use your mind to think about what mind is. If you sabotage your mind a priori, you're toast.
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Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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8/4/2016 8:25:12 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 6:11:31 PM, keithprosser wrote:
I am not sure if the is an answer to my question or not...

My intended point was that the idea that an artificial mind is impossible seems to imply there is something biology can do that engineering can't. I get the impression that people don't just mean brains are super-complicated and its super difficult to emulate their operation. They mean the 'mind' aspects of a brain cannot be produced mechanically no matter how complicated the machine.

I don't know how such views can be justified.

Perhaps there is another avenue that is being overlooked. Human to computer links are growing at an ever increasing rate. We now have camera's linked directly to the human brain which allow limited sight to the blind. I believe its only a matter of time until we will be able to upload our personalities into a virtual environment. This would be the birth of virtual consciousness. I can't however rule out the possibility that the ever increasing computing power of machines will not allow for consciousness to develop on it's own. After all, it's only because our brains are so much more capable that humans are more conscious than animals.
keithprosser
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8/4/2016 8:37:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I can't however rule out the possibility that the ever increasing computing power of machines will not allow for consciousness to develop on it's own.

That's a hard sentence to parse! If I take out the two negatives I get

I can rule out the possibility that the ever increasing computing power of machines will allow for consciousness to develop on it's own.

which seems pessimistic about the prospect of artificial conciousness... is that your position?
Furyan5
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8/4/2016 9:50:26 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 8:37:24 PM, keithprosser wrote:
I can't however rule out the possibility that the ever increasing computing power of machines will not allow for consciousness to develop on it's own.

That's a hard sentence to parse! If I take out the two negatives I get

I can rule out the possibility that the ever increasing computing power of machines will allow for consciousness to develop on it's own.

which seems pessimistic about the prospect of artificial conciousness... is that your position?

I believe it's unlikely but not impossible that machines can become conscious.
Torton
Posts: 988
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8/5/2016 12:46:54 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 9:50:26 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 8/4/2016 8:37:24 PM, keithprosser wrote:
I can't however rule out the possibility that the ever increasing computing power of machines will not allow for consciousness to develop on it's own.

That's a hard sentence to parse! If I take out the two negatives I get

I can rule out the possibility that the ever increasing computing power of machines will allow for consciousness to develop on it's own.

which seems pessimistic about the prospect of artificial conciousness... is that your position?

I believe it's unlikely but not impossible that machines can become conscious.
Why do you think it's unlikely?
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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8/5/2016 1:40:04 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 1:25:20 AM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
At 8/4/2016 1:13:07 AM, janesix wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:44:09 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
So...we are an the verge of humanoids being applied to everyday life.

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Help me decide,

is A.I. humanoid consciousness a benefit or a disadvantage to humans.

I can't decide whether to be excited or completely terrified, lmao.

what are your thoughts? Are you excited? or Terrified?
A machine will never have consciousness.

Please explain how you've deduced that humanoids cannot obtain consciousness.

Because consciousness by definition is the state of being awake, able to perceive your surroundings, learn, be self aware. All of which have been demonstrated by the humanoids.

Chinese room, probably. Jane has a pretty Platonic view of things, so it's naturally hard for her to accept that.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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8/5/2016 9:52:40 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/5/2016 12:46:54 AM, Torton wrote:
At 8/4/2016 9:50:26 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 8/4/2016 8:37:24 PM, keithprosser wrote:
I can't however rule out the possibility that the ever increasing computing power of machines will not allow for consciousness to develop on it's own.

That's a hard sentence to parse! If I take out the two negatives I get

I can rule out the possibility that the ever increasing computing power of machines will allow for consciousness to develop on it's own.

which seems pessimistic about the prospect of artificial conciousness... is that your position?

I believe it's unlikely but not impossible that machines can become conscious.
Why do you think it's unlikely?

Living things do something that non living things can't do. They feel.
keithprosser
Posts: 1,905
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8/5/2016 1:46:13 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Living things do something that non living things can't do. They feel.
Do you want to speculate why that is? What is it that allows living things to feel and prevents non-living things doing it?
v3nesl
Posts: 4,460
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8/5/2016 2:45:50 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/5/2016 1:46:13 PM, keithprosser wrote:
Living things do something that non living things can't do. They feel.
Do you want to speculate why that is? What is it that allows living things to feel and prevents non-living things doing it?

I'll speculate: It's the soul. The spirit, whatever you want to call it. We have bodies, and then we have something which is aware of our body. That something can't BE body, it's aware of body. It's something else.

I guess I participate in discussions like this because I try to understand what sort of powerful mojo can make people willing to deny their own humanity. I can't help think of Paul's words: "Our battle ... is against spiritual forces ...".

And btw - it's speculation that "living things" all feel. I feel. That much I know, every other feeler is inferred.
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