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Temperature rising increases CO2.

Stupidape
Posts: 171
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8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...
Looncall
Posts: 449
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8/17/2016 9:53:38 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

Do you have a mechanism to back this up?

After all, the sources of excess CO2 are well known.

It's better to consider all the data than it is to blather about just one idea at a time.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
distraff
Posts: 1,004
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8/17/2016 6:38:02 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

It isn't one or the other. Its both.

We know increasing CO2 increases temperature, we have seen it in experiments, and its a basic part of earth's ecology. So it is no surprise that a massive increase of CO2 is increasing temperature.

What is dangerous about CO2 increasing temperature is that the rise doesn't just stop when you stop pumping out CO2. Higher temperatures will cause more CO2 to be released from the Oceans, which hold most of our CO2, into the atmosphere increasing temperatures further. The reverse is also true. When temperatures fall, some CO2 will go back into the ocean, cooling the planet further, putting more CO2 back into the ocean.

We often see large temperature changes in the past from small orbital differences that wouldn't have that much impact. We also see a massive change in CO2 as well. The reason for this is that the orbital change for example raises the temperature. This releases CO2 increasing CO2 levels. This CO2 raises the temperature releasing more CO2. This causes a much larger change in temperature.

CO2 is not the only gas that works this way. This is also true of gasses like methane as well.
Stupidape
Posts: 171
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8/17/2016 6:44:09 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
It isn't one or the other. Its both.

We know increasing CO2 increases temperature, we have seen it in experiments, and its a basic part of earth's ecology. So it is no surprise that a massive increase of CO2 is increasing temperature.

What is dangerous about CO2 increasing temperature is that the rise doesn't just stop when you stop pumping out CO2. Higher temperatures will cause more CO2 to be released from the Oceans, which hold most of our CO2, into the atmosphere increasing temperatures further. The reverse is also true. When temperatures fall, some CO2 will go back into the ocean, cooling the planet further, putting more CO2 back into the ocean.

We often see large temperature changes in the past from small orbital differences that wouldn't have that much impact. We also see a massive change in CO2 as well. The reason for this is that the orbital change for example raises the temperature. This releases CO2 increasing CO2 levels. This CO2 raises the temperature releasing more CO2. This causes a much larger change in temperature.

CO2 is not the only gas that works this way. This is also true of gasses like methane as well.

Interesting, I'm trying to learn as much about the subject as I can because people have such vastly different points of view. Can you give me the source of this information please?
distraff
Posts: 1,004
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8/17/2016 11:59:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 6:44:09 PM, Stupidape wrote:
It isn't one or the other. Its both.

We know increasing CO2 increases temperature, we have seen it in experiments, and its a basic part of earth's ecology. So it is no surprise that a massive increase of CO2 is increasing temperature.

What is dangerous about CO2 increasing temperature is that the rise doesn't just stop when you stop pumping out CO2. Higher temperatures will cause more CO2 to be released from the Oceans, which hold most of our CO2, into the atmosphere increasing temperatures further. The reverse is also true. When temperatures fall, some CO2 will go back into the ocean, cooling the planet further, putting more CO2 back into the ocean.

We often see large temperature changes in the past from small orbital differences that wouldn't have that much impact. We also see a massive change in CO2 as well. The reason for this is that the orbital change for example raises the temperature. This releases CO2 increasing CO2 levels. This CO2 raises the temperature releasing more CO2. This causes a much larger change in temperature.

CO2 is not the only gas that works this way. This is also true of gasses like methane as well.


Interesting, I'm trying to learn as much about the subject as I can because people have such vastly different points of view. Can you give me the source of this information please?

Here is a youtube videos about this:
https://www.youtube.com...

Here is a source:
https://www.newscientist.com...

For example we know the last ice age was caused by changes it the earth's orbit that changed the distance of the earth to the sun and slightly cooled us. This caused a cascade effect with CO2 being trapped into our oceans, cooling the planet. There are a lot of cascade effects like this in climate.
https://www.sciencedaily.com...
tahirimanov
Posts: 43
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8/18/2016 10:39:54 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Global Climate Change is not just one cause and one effect , it is rather circular causes. Here one example how it works:
CO2 level rises -> traps more heat -> effects oceans -> more CO2 released -> CO2 level rises
I am smart.....
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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8/19/2016 1:34:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING! Someone alert the worlds scientists and tell them they are wrong, quickly!

Seriously, you don't know more about atmospheric science than scientists. If you think you do, then please publish your findings c:
Meh!
distraff
Posts: 1,004
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8/19/2016 2:21:25 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02.

Hello again bigotry. I thought you made some interesting points. You say that CO2 balances temperatures and that at a certain point increasing CO2 won't increase temperature. Are there any studies to back this up? I always thought that CO2 traps heat and that the more of it there is the more heat that will be trapped. Correct me if I am wrong.

As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

If the sun is the only major factor then why is Venus so hot? Scientists believe it is its thick atmosphere trapping the heat. What do you think?

I found a graph with solar heat, temperature, and CO2 and solar activity has been falling since 1955 or about 60 years ago. Most of the temperature rise occurred since then. CO2 has been rising consistently and sped up its rise when temperatures sped up.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/19/2016 4:55:56 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 1:34:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING! Someone alert the worlds scientists and tell them they are wrong, quickly!

Seriously, you don't know more about atmospheric science than scientists. If you think you do, then please publish your findings c:

There are atmospheric scientists and the military itself that make these same points...I can cite them if your not familiar. I thought more people knew about this stuff? All the CO2 that's being released into space as well ect ect.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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8/19/2016 5:04:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 4:55:56 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:34:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING! Someone alert the worlds scientists and tell them they are wrong, quickly!

Seriously, you don't know more about atmospheric science than scientists. If you think you do, then please publish your findings c:

There are atmospheric scientists and the military itself that make these same points...I can cite them if your not familiar. I thought more people knew about this stuff? All the CO2 that's being released into space as well ect ect.

Yep, and there will be significantly more who agree that global warming is caused by us.
Meh!
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/19/2016 5:26:29 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 2:21:25 AM, distraff wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02.

Hello again bigotry. I thought you made some interesting points. You say that CO2 balances temperatures and that at a certain point increasing CO2 won't increase temperature. Are there any studies to back this up? I always thought that CO2 traps heat and that the more of it there is the more heat that will be trapped. Correct me if I am wrong.

I just know from the CO2 that I work with, it just stabilizes the temperature. This idea that CO2 somehow traps heat is indeed nonsense because CO2 itself isn't trapped in the earth. Check out this link here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Here is a relevant quote from this:
"They recognise the global warming "pause" first reported by The Mail on Sunday last year is real " and concede that their computer models did not predict it. But they cannot explain why world average temperatures have not shown any statistically significant increase since 1997.

They admit large parts of the world were as warm as they are now for decades at a time between 950 and 1250 AD " centuries before the Industrial Revolution, and when the population and CO2 levels were both much lower."


As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

If the sun is the only major factor then why is Venus so hot? Scientists believe it is its thick atmosphere trapping the heat. What do you think?

I'm sure it could play a role because venus is hotter than mercury.

I found a graph with solar heat, temperature, and CO2 and solar activity has been falling since 1955 or about 60 years ago. Most of the temperature rise occurred since then. CO2 has been rising consistently and sped up its rise when temperatures sped up.

Not really, it actually seems to vary quite a bit as can be seen here:
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov...

A very interesting report to read is this:
http://leg.mt.gov...
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/19/2016 5:28:01 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 5:04:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 4:55:56 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:34:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING! Someone alert the worlds scientists and tell them they are wrong, quickly!

Seriously, you don't know more about atmospheric science than scientists. If you think you do, then please publish your findings c:

There are atmospheric scientists and the military itself that make these same points...I can cite them if your not familiar. I thought more people knew about this stuff? All the CO2 that's being released into space as well ect ect.

Yep, and there will be significantly more who agree that global warming is caused by us.
Heres a list of 400 well credentialed scientists. Theres actually more than that. I have to dig up a college paper I wrote on the topic to find some more specifics.
http://leg.mt.gov...
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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8/19/2016 5:51:33 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 5:28:01 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:04:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 4:55:56 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:34:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING! Someone alert the worlds scientists and tell them they are wrong, quickly!

Seriously, you don't know more about atmospheric science than scientists. If you think you do, then please publish your findings c:

There are atmospheric scientists and the military itself that make these same points...I can cite them if your not familiar. I thought more people knew about this stuff? All the CO2 that's being released into space as well ect ect.

Yep, and there will be significantly more who agree that global warming is caused by us.
Heres a list of 400 well credentialed scientists. Theres actually more than that. I have to dig up a college paper I wrote on the topic to find some more specifics.
http://leg.mt.gov...

Cool, show that to these guys: http://climate.nasa.gov...

I'm sure those 400 know better than 97% of scientists (http://iopscience.iop.org...
Meh!
dee-em
Posts: 6,456
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8/19/2016 5:55:49 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

C + O2 = CO2.

Are you denying that we have been digging up fossil fuels (coal, oil and gas) and burning them in vast quantities for the last two centuries at an accelerating rate? If not (and how can you?) then here we have a CO2 build-up which is unrelated to temperature. The only cause is human activity. Therefore any attempt at establishing reverse causation breaks down immediately.

You might argue that increased temperatures (from some other source) can cause more bushfires and therefore increase the amount of CO2 in the air. Unfortunately this contribution is miniscule compared to fossil fuel burning and is short-term anyway once the vegetation cover grows back over a few decades.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you.

Not necessarily unless you are paranoid. Lol.

This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

The correlation is not in doubt as you have already conceded. The question is, which way does the causality go (if at all)? A causal mechanism is available for increased CO2 to higher temperature. This is the fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. No causal mechanism has been suggested for higher temperature to increased CO2. Therefore, causality can only go one way. Do you imagine that climate scientists have not considered this?

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase.

See above.

In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Lol. If only we lived in the simplistic universe you imagine where both scenarios have equal evidence for them. Unfortunately this is the real world and we have to consider actual science when determining which causality is feasible and which lacks a mechanism.

Thanks for reading.

No problem. It was a gas. :-)

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

You have to wade through reams of guff and blatant misuse of statistics before you finally are given a possible mechanism:

A warmer ocean can hold less CO2, so increasing temperatures will release CO2 from the ocean to the atmosphere.

Unfortunately this is easily refuted. If it were true then the oceans should be becoming more alkaline. Instead they are becoming more acidic. This is a basic chemistry 101 fail:

http://www.skepticalscience.com...

The oceans are the Earth's largest carbon storage medium, so if the atmospheric CO2 increase were "natural", it would likely be coming from the oceans. But we know the CO2 increase is not coming from the oceans, because the pH of the oceans is dropping (a.k.a. ocean acidification).

When CO2 is absorbed into a solution, it binds with a water molecule to form a molecule of carbonic acid:

CO2 + H2O = H2CO3

H2CO3 has a rather strong acidifying effect in that 95% of it turns into HCO3-. This loss of an H+ ion causes the ocean pH to decrease (for more details on ocean acidification, see the OA no OK series).

In short, the fact that the pH of the oceans is decreasing tell us that they are absorbing more carbon than they are releasing, not vice-versa.
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/19/2016 6:06:59 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 5:51:33 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:28:01 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:04:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 4:55:56 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:34:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING! Someone alert the worlds scientists and tell them they are wrong, quickly!

Seriously, you don't know more about atmospheric science than scientists. If you think you do, then please publish your findings c:

There are atmospheric scientists and the military itself that make these same points...I can cite them if your not familiar. I thought more people knew about this stuff? All the CO2 that's being released into space as well ect ect.

Yep, and there will be significantly more who agree that global warming is caused by us.
Heres a list of 400 well credentialed scientists. Theres actually more than that. I have to dig up a college paper I wrote on the topic to find some more specifics.
http://leg.mt.gov...

Cool, show that to these guys: http://climate.nasa.gov...

I'm sure those 400 know better than 97% of scientists (http://iopscience.iop.org...
Are you disqualifying on the basis of numbers?

I hope your familiar with the cooling scare of the 70s in which scientists were "unanimous" on that as well...
http://www.denisdutton.com...
http://content.time.com...
http://ruby.fgcu.edu...
The CIA
http://www.climatemonitor.it...

more on that CO2:
http://science.sciencemag.org...
Stupidape
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8/19/2016 6:54:00 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
"A warmer ocean can hold less CO2, so increasing temperatures will release CO2 from the ocean to the atmosphere." Deem

Thanks so much for this. I'm not a denier, I'm just paranoid. I like to make informed decisions. I hate being left in the dark.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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8/19/2016 6:56:57 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 6:06:59 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:51:33 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:28:01 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:04:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 4:55:56 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:34:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING! Someone alert the worlds scientists and tell them they are wrong, quickly!

Seriously, you don't know more about atmospheric science than scientists. If you think you do, then please publish your findings c:

There are atmospheric scientists and the military itself that make these same points...I can cite them if your not familiar. I thought more people knew about this stuff? All the CO2 that's being released into space as well ect ect.

Yep, and there will be significantly more who agree that global warming is caused by us.
Heres a list of 400 well credentialed scientists. Theres actually more than that. I have to dig up a college paper I wrote on the topic to find some more specifics.
http://leg.mt.gov...

Cool, show that to these guys: http://climate.nasa.gov...

I'm sure those 400 know better than 97% of scientists (http://iopscience.iop.org...
Are you disqualifying on the basis of numbers?

I hope your familiar with the cooling scare of the 70s in which scientists were "unanimous" on that as well...
http://www.denisdutton.com...
http://content.time.com...
http://ruby.fgcu.edu...
The CIA
http://www.climatemonitor.it...

more on that CO2:
http://science.sciencemag.org...

(Is imagining a committee of the worlds greatest Scientists)

(Has assembled to write their 400 page report on global warming. This is the report where they reviewed hundreds if not thousands of studies covering decades of work, looking at every possible explanation)

(I'm going to call the main character "Phillip". Why? Because I'm writing this story, f*ck you that's why)

Phillip: It's finally, complete, now just to send and let the world know we need to reduce carbon emissions!

(Bigotry bursts into the room in a panic)

Bigotry: WAIT! Don't publish!

(Everyone is shocked by the concern)

Phillip: What is it? What did we miss?

Bigotry: Remember the cooling scare in the 70s?

Phillip:Bu-wh-what? How... HOW DID WE MISS THIS!?

Committee member:We must have missed this while we were reviewing equilibrium principles with the ocean!

(And that is how Bigotry saved the day)

This is pretty much how Scientists view you guys.

(Credit Anonymous FB user)
Meh!
dee-em
Posts: 6,456
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8/19/2016 8:35:49 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 6:54:00 AM, Stupidape wrote:
"A warmer ocean can hold less CO2, so increasing temperatures will release CO2 from the ocean to the atmosphere." Deem

That quote was from your blogger link and I've shown that the evidence directly refutes it.

Thanks so much for this. I'm not a denier, I'm just paranoid. I like to make informed decisions. I hate being left in the dark.

Then you can no longer claim to be a mushroom being fed BS. Right?
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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8/19/2016 12:58:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 6:06:59 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:51:33 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:28:01 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:04:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 4:55:56 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:34:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING! Someone alert the worlds scientists and tell them they are wrong, quickly!

Seriously, you don't know more about atmospheric science than scientists. If you think you do, then please publish your findings c:

There are atmospheric scientists and the military itself that make these same points...I can cite them if your not familiar. I thought more people knew about this stuff? All the CO2 that's being released into space as well ect ect.

Yep, and there will be significantly more who agree that global warming is caused by us.
Heres a list of 400 well credentialed scientists. Theres actually more than that. I have to dig up a college paper I wrote on the topic to find some more specifics.
http://leg.mt.gov...

Cool, show that to these guys: http://climate.nasa.gov...

I'm sure those 400 know better than 97% of scientists (http://iopscience.iop.org...
Are you disqualifying on the basis of numbers?

I hope your familiar with the cooling scare of the 70s in which scientists were "unanimous" on that as well...
http://www.denisdutton.com...
http://content.time.com...
http://ruby.fgcu.edu...
The CIA
http://www.climatemonitor.it...

more on that CO2:
http://science.sciencemag.org...

The other post I made was a bit harsh, sorry about that.
Meh!
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/19/2016 4:50:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 12:58:35 PM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 6:06:59 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:51:33 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:28:01 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:04:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 4:55:56 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:34:00 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02. As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING! Someone alert the worlds scientists and tell them they are wrong, quickly!

Seriously, you don't know more about atmospheric science than scientists. If you think you do, then please publish your findings c:

There are atmospheric scientists and the military itself that make these same points...I can cite them if your not familiar. I thought more people knew about this stuff? All the CO2 that's being released into space as well ect ect.

Yep, and there will be significantly more who agree that global warming is caused by us.
Heres a list of 400 well credentialed scientists. Theres actually more than that. I have to dig up a college paper I wrote on the topic to find some more specifics.
http://leg.mt.gov...

Cool, show that to these guys: http://climate.nasa.gov...

I'm sure those 400 know better than 97% of scientists (http://iopscience.iop.org...
Are you disqualifying on the basis of numbers?

I hope your familiar with the cooling scare of the 70s in which scientists were "unanimous" on that as well...
http://www.denisdutton.com...
http://content.time.com...
http://ruby.fgcu.edu...
The CIA
http://www.climatemonitor.it...

more on that CO2:
http://science.sciencemag.org...

The other post I made was a bit harsh, sorry about that.

I didnt find it to be harsh lol
distraff
Posts: 1,004
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8/20/2016 5:26:54 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/19/2016 5:26:29 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:21:25 AM, distraff wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02.

Hello again bigotry. I thought you made some interesting points. You say that CO2 balances temperatures and that at a certain point increasing CO2 won't increase temperature. Are there any studies to back this up? I always thought that CO2 traps heat and that the more of it there is the more heat that will be trapped. Correct me if I am wrong.

I just know from the CO2 that I work with, it just stabilizes the temperature. This idea that CO2 somehow traps heat is indeed nonsense because CO2 itself isn't trapped in the earth. Check out this link here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Here is a relevant quote from this:
"They recognise the global warming "pause" first reported by The Mail on Sunday last year is real " and concede that their computer models did not predict it. But they cannot explain why world average temperatures have not shown any statistically significant increase since 1997.

They admit large parts of the world were as warm as they are now for decades at a time between 950 and 1250 AD " centuries before the Industrial Revolution, and when the population and CO2 levels were both much lower."


As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

If the sun is the only major factor then why is Venus so hot? Scientists believe it is its thick atmosphere trapping the heat. What do you think?

I'm sure it could play a role because venus is hotter than mercury.

I found a graph with solar heat, temperature, and CO2 and solar activity has been falling since 1955 or about 60 years ago. Most of the temperature rise occurred since then. CO2 has been rising consistently and sped up its rise when temperatures sped up.

Not really, it actually seems to vary quite a bit as can be seen here:
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov...

A very interesting report to read is this:
http://leg.mt.gov...

Your sources don't actually refute the idea that CO2 traps heat, it mostly just attacks global warming estimates.

Here is a mythbusters video where the show that CO2 does trap heat:
https://www.youtube.com...

We have a lot of greenhouse gasses and CO2 is only one of them. The biggest one is actually water vapor. Venus has a ton of greenhouse gasses and is about 800 degrees. Part of that heat is because it is closer to the sun but an estimated 700 degrees is from greenhouse gasses. The average temperature of the earth is about 60 degrees and greenhouse gasses raise the temperature about 60 degrees so with the sunlight alone the temperature would be 0 degrees.
http://www.climatecentral.org...
bigotry
Posts: 1,068
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8/21/2016 3:59:27 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 5:26:54 PM, distraff wrote:
At 8/19/2016 5:26:29 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/19/2016 2:21:25 AM, distraff wrote:
At 8/19/2016 1:18:48 AM, bigotry wrote:
At 8/17/2016 9:01:49 AM, Stupidape wrote:
I've been arguing a lot about global climate change. Yet, I came across an interesting point of view. Temperature rising is increasing CO2 levels, not the other way around. This is called reverse causality.

Anytime, someone says there is a correlation between two events this should send a red flag that this person is trying to mislead you. This is because you don't know which way the correlation is pointing. Take for example event x and y with a positive correlation.

X could cause y or y could cause x. This is a coin flip situation. Therefore, all climate change scientists have done for the relatively informed is provide a coin flip situation. Gee, there is a positive correlation between CO2 and temperatures.

Yet, which way does the correlation point? CO2 increases causes temperature increase or temperature increase cause CO2 increase. In other words the layman has the same chance of coming to an accurate conclusion as all the climate scientist in the world put together by simply flipping a coin.

Thanks for reading.

http://www.prisonplanet.com...

I can tell you 100% that a rise and temperature does not just make C02. C02 simply keeps temperatures leveled out. So it wont get crazy hot and it wont get crazy cold if you have high levels of C02.

Hello again bigotry. I thought you made some interesting points. You say that CO2 balances temperatures and that at a certain point increasing CO2 won't increase temperature. Are there any studies to back this up? I always thought that CO2 traps heat and that the more of it there is the more heat that will be trapped. Correct me if I am wrong.

I just know from the CO2 that I work with, it just stabilizes the temperature. This idea that CO2 somehow traps heat is indeed nonsense because CO2 itself isn't trapped in the earth. Check out this link here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Here is a relevant quote from this:
"They recognise the global warming "pause" first reported by The Mail on Sunday last year is real " and concede that their computer models did not predict it. But they cannot explain why world average temperatures have not shown any statistically significant increase since 1997.

They admit large parts of the world were as warm as they are now for decades at a time between 950 and 1250 AD " centuries before the Industrial Revolution, and when the population and CO2 levels were both much lower."


As to the rising temperature of the earth, that's determined by space. You cant do anything about the earth progressively getting closer or farther away from the sun, sunspot activity ect. But we can all play make believe and think because we have recorded 160 yrs of temperatures apparently we know everything.

If the sun is the only major factor then why is Venus so hot? Scientists believe it is its thick atmosphere trapping the heat. What do you think?

I'm sure it could play a role because venus is hotter than mercury.

I found a graph with solar heat, temperature, and CO2 and solar activity has been falling since 1955 or about 60 years ago. Most of the temperature rise occurred since then. CO2 has been rising consistently and sped up its rise when temperatures sped up.

Not really, it actually seems to vary quite a bit as can be seen here:
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov...

A very interesting report to read is this:
http://leg.mt.gov...

Your sources don't actually refute the idea that CO2 traps heat, it mostly just attacks global warming estimates.

They show consensus means nothing when the scientific field still knows little about how it all works. Scientists are still not sure how the sun spots affect our weather but they find correlations and are working on it.
I mean they even suggested melting the ice caps to prevent the cooling! Imagine if their by their ignorance they actually did that!

Here is a mythbusters video where the show that CO2 does trap heat:
https://www.youtube.com...

The problem with this experiment is that its in a closed setting. The earth isnt closed and the earth absorbs most of the CO2. Much of the CO2 is escaping into space right now. This would have gone their way no matter what gas they used. They also failed to list the ppms they actually used. Even in a closed system the best they got was 1 degree difference.

We have a lot of greenhouse gasses and CO2 is only one of them. The biggest one is actually water vapor. Venus has a ton of greenhouse gasses and is about 800 degrees. Part of that heat is because it is closer to the sun but an estimated 700 degrees is from greenhouse gasses. The average temperature of the earth is about 60 degrees and greenhouse gasses raise the temperature about 60 degrees so with the sunlight alone the temperature would be 0 degrees.
http://www.climatecentral.org...
Everyone knows water retains heat. Its why deserts fluctuate at night. Its not greenhouse gasses but as you correctly said the water vapor.
Do you think CO2 gets trapped in the atmosphere or something?