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Increased water vapor causes clouds that cool

Stupidape
Posts: 171
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8/22/2016 11:00:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Higher temperatures cause water to evaporate, causing higher water vapor which causes clouds, and the clouds cool the temperature.

In other words higher temperatures cause a negative feedback loop where water vapor forms clouds that cool the Earth. Not only that but the act of evaporation cools the Earth.
fire_wings
Posts: 5,562
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8/22/2016 11:17:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 11:00:43 PM, Stupidape wrote:
Higher temperatures cause water to evaporate, causing higher water vapor which causes clouds, and the clouds cool the temperature.

In other words higher temperatures cause a negative feedback loop where water vapor forms clouds that cool the Earth. Not only that but the act of evaporation cools the Earth.

and you'll probably make a debate on this.
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keithprosser
Posts: 2,019
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8/23/2016 1:41:02 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
There's no point debating it - whetever people post here won't change whether 'increased water vapour causes clouds that cool' or not.

It seems that the answer is "Not", as one can verify in under 2 minutes with google, or 5 minutes to understand why not.
Stupidape
Posts: 171
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8/23/2016 7:36:57 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
I figured out how clouds cool the Earth. Pretty interesting. Clouds cool the Earth by reflecting sunlight into outer space. Clouds also reflect radiation from the Earth back to Earth. The net effect is cooling.

http://www-das.uwyo.edu...
keithprosser
Posts: 2,019
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8/23/2016 7:56:27 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Clouds do possibly have a cooling effect. The point is that increased water vapour also increases the general humidity of the air which warms the planet. It the concensus is that warming is the dominant affect.

My supercomputer is down for maintenance so I can't run a climate model to check that at the moment.
picknpull
Posts: 62
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8/23/2016 12:32:42 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 11:00:43 PM, Stupidape wrote:
Higher temperatures cause water to evaporate, causing higher water vapor which causes clouds, and the clouds cool the temperature.

In other words higher temperatures cause a negative feedback loop where water vapor forms clouds that cool the Earth. Not only that but the act of evaporation cools the Earth. : :

You would have something to debate about if you pointed out that God created the clouds from nothing but his thoughts.

Psalm 33
8: Let all the earth fear the LORD, let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him!
9: For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood forth.

Psalm 94
7: and they say, "The LORD does not see; the God of Jacob does not perceive."
8: Understand, O dullest of the people! Fools, when will you be wise?
9: He who planted the ear, does he not hear? He who formed the eye, does he not see?
10: He who chastens the nations, does he not chastise? He who teaches men knowledge,
11: the LORD, knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath.

Isaiah 44
24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --

Isaiah 45
5: I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me,
6: that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
7: I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things.
8: "Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the skies rain down righteousness; let the earth open, that salvation may sprout forth, and let it cause righteousness to spring up also; I the LORD have created it.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought; who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth -- the LORD, the God of hosts, is his name!
Aran55633
Posts: 110
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8/23/2016 1:13:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/22/2016 11:00:43 PM, Stupidape wrote:
Higher temperatures cause water to evaporate, causing higher water vapor which causes clouds, and the clouds cool the temperature.

In other words higher temperatures cause a negative feedback loop where water vapor forms clouds that cool the Earth. Not only that but the act of evaporation cools the Earth.

Except that water vapor is a greenhouse gas, and is actually more effective at trapping heat than CO2.

The general consensus is that increases in CO2 levels lead to higher water vapor levels, leading to a positive feedback loop where the warming effect is further exaggerated.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,493
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8/23/2016 1:40:10 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 7:56:27 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Clouds do possibly have a cooling effect. The point is that increased water vapour also increases the general humidity of the air which warms the planet. It the concensus is that warming is the dominant affect.


Consensus? Darn, for a moment there I thought there was going to be some actual science on this one.

But, btw, there is no "possible" about the cooling effects of clouds. You don't need a supercomputer for this one, just general powers of observation.
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keithprosser
Posts: 2,019
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8/23/2016 2:02:07 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
But, btw, there is no "possible" about the cooling effects of clouds. You don't need a supercomputer for this one, just general powers of observation.

But to compare the relative importance of the negative effect of clouds and the positive effect of increased humidity on a global scale you might just want to do more than make a guess.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,493
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8/23/2016 2:28:21 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/23/2016 2:02:07 PM, keithprosser wrote:
But, btw, there is no "possible" about the cooling effects of clouds. You don't need a supercomputer for this one, just general powers of observation.

But to compare the relative importance of the negative effect of clouds and the positive effect of increased humidity on a global scale you might just want to do more than make a guess.

Indeed. Consensus is the collective guess, that's one of my points here.

I might also point out that clouds ARE humidity, so it's not even clear what we're talking about by "increased water vapor". I suspect the point of the OP is that earth has a closed loop temperature control system, and I'd say that's pretty obviously true. Heat makes clouds, which cool the earth, simultaneously driving earth's irrigation system. But I guess that sounds too much like a design feature for some people, so they have to challenge it.

And one can still recognize said closed loop system and keep their faith in global warming, btw. The center point of a feedback loop can be drifting.
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Stupidape
Posts: 171
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8/24/2016 6:29:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I was wrong, global warming causes less clouds that cool.

"In reality (based on observations) warming of the lower atmosphere pulls water vapor away from those higher cloud-forming levels of the atmosphere and the amount of cloud formation there actually decreases. The diminished cloud cover leads to greater warming (a positive feedback), as explained by lead author Steven Sherwood in this video."

As you can see, less clouds are formed due to higher temperatures. This is called the amplification affect of Co2 in regards to climate change.

http://www.skepticalscience.com...
v3nesl
Posts: 4,493
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8/25/2016 1:30:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/24/2016 6:29:43 PM, Stupidape wrote:
I was wrong, global warming causes less clouds that cool.


"In reality (based on observations) warming of the lower atmosphere pulls water vapor away from those higher cloud-forming levels of the atmosphere and the amount of cloud formation there actually decreases. ...

This is why we have thundershowers in the winter and not the summer, right?

What's really going on in this thread is an illustration of why it's best if scientists don't have an agenda. But, of course, scientists are humans, just like non-scientists. And, most importantly, an illustration of why the average joe should continue to trust his own common sense. Sometimes the smart people can't change a flat tire, knowwhatimean?
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