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Human evolution and the waiting problem

NothingSpecial99
Posts: 378
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10/8/2016 7:15:06 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
An interesting topic regarding genetics and its relation to evolution is determining the rate at which information gaining mutations accumulate to create new functional genes and such. The topic itself was first touched upon by John Burdon Sanderson Haldane, one of the key founders of population genetics. The result of Haldane's calculations found that information-gaining mutations cannot accumulate enough in the supposed time period in which human evolution occurred. While Haldane himself admitted that his calculations needed some reworking, the question became known as Haldane's dilemma.

The latest paper on the topic by John C. Sanford has a rather interesting conclusion when taking a look at the waiting problem.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Thoughts?
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
Looncall
Posts: 460
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10/8/2016 9:35:46 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/8/2016 7:15:06 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
An interesting topic regarding genetics and its relation to evolution is determining the rate at which information gaining mutations accumulate to create new functional genes and such. The topic itself was first touched upon by John Burdon Sanderson Haldane, one of the key founders of population genetics. The result of Haldane's calculations found that information-gaining mutations cannot accumulate enough in the supposed time period in which human evolution occurred. While Haldane himself admitted that his calculations needed some reworking, the question became known as Haldane's dilemma.

The latest paper on the topic by John C. Sanford has a rather interesting conclusion when taking a look at the waiting problem.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Thoughts?

A quick look about showed that the very few non-creationist comments by experts I located found that the scenario modelled was unrealistic and possibly mendaciius. I will be interested to see further reviews.

I do note that the paper was written by notorious creationists.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
Silly_Billy
Posts: 654
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10/8/2016 10:43:35 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/8/2016 9:35:46 PM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/8/2016 7:15:06 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
An interesting topic regarding genetics and its relation to evolution is determining the rate at which information gaining mutations accumulate to create new functional genes and such. The topic itself was first touched upon by John Burdon Sanderson Haldane, one of the key founders of population genetics. The result of Haldane's calculations found that information-gaining mutations cannot accumulate enough in the supposed time period in which human evolution occurred. While Haldane himself admitted that his calculations needed some reworking, the question became known as Haldane's dilemma.

The latest paper on the topic by John C. Sanford has a rather interesting conclusion when taking a look at the waiting problem.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Thoughts?

A quick look about showed that the very few non-creationist comments by experts I located found that the scenario modelled was unrealistic and possibly mendaciius. I will be interested to see further reviews.

I do note that the paper was written by notorious creationists.

Perhaps so but it is gratifying to see that someone is actually making the attempt to try and proof something instead of running back to the bible as the ultimate (and only) argument.

The waiting problem is an interesting hypothesis that deserves to be looked at and proven or disproven.
NothingSpecial99
Posts: 378
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10/8/2016 11:02:00 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/8/2016 9:35:46 PM, Looncall wrote:
At 10/8/2016 7:15:06 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
An interesting topic regarding genetics and its relation to evolution is determining the rate at which information gaining mutations accumulate to create new functional genes and such. The topic itself was first touched upon by John Burdon Sanderson Haldane, one of the key founders of population genetics. The result of Haldane's calculations found that information-gaining mutations cannot accumulate enough in the supposed time period in which human evolution occurred. While Haldane himself admitted that his calculations needed some reworking, the question became known as Haldane's dilemma.

The latest paper on the topic by John C. Sanford has a rather interesting conclusion when taking a look at the waiting problem.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Thoughts?

A quick look about showed that the very few non-creationist comments by experts I located found that the scenario modelled was unrealistic and possibly mendaciius. I will be interested to see further reviews.

I do note that the paper was written by notorious creationists.

That may be, however the paper was published in a secular journal and stood up to peer-review
"Check your facts, not your privilege" - Christina Hoff Summers

If you go to jail for Tax Evasion, you're living off of Taxes as a result of not paying Taxes

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/9/2016 12:01:24 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/8/2016 7:15:06 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
An interesting topic regarding genetics and its relation to evolution is determining the rate at which information gaining mutations accumulate to create new functional genes and such. The topic itself was first touched upon by John Burdon Sanderson Haldane, one of the key founders of population genetics. The result of Haldane's calculations found that information-gaining mutations cannot accumulate enough in the supposed time period in which human evolution occurred. While Haldane himself admitted that his calculations needed some reworking, the question became known as Haldane's dilemma.

The latest paper on the topic by John C. Sanford has a rather interesting conclusion when taking a look at the waiting problem.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Thoughts?

I take issue with the concept of "information gaining mutations". There are mutations. They are either beneficial or they are not, dependent on context. Whether we the consider them to have 'gained information' or not is entirely subjective, based on what we define as information.

Basically, the introduction of any sort of 'information theory' into evolutionary biology is something I find a bit troubling.
Looncall
Posts: 460
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10/9/2016 8:47:54 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/9/2016 12:01:24 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/8/2016 7:15:06 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
An interesting topic regarding genetics and its relation to evolution is determining the rate at which information gaining mutations accumulate to create new functional genes and such. The topic itself was first touched upon by John Burdon Sanderson Haldane, one of the key founders of population genetics. The result of Haldane's calculations found that information-gaining mutations cannot accumulate enough in the supposed time period in which human evolution occurred. While Haldane himself admitted that his calculations needed some reworking, the question became known as Haldane's dilemma.

The latest paper on the topic by John C. Sanford has a rather interesting conclusion when taking a look at the waiting problem.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Thoughts?

I take issue with the concept of "information gaining mutations". There are mutations. They are either beneficial or they are not, dependent on context. Whether we the consider them to have 'gained information' or not is entirely subjective, based on what we define as information.

Basically, the introduction of any sort of 'information theory' into evolutionary biology is something I find a bit troubling.

I agree, that is a red flag.

I have the impression that, also, the ratcheting effects of successive mutations was not properly treated, a typical creationist ploy.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
Annnaxim
Posts: 242
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10/9/2016 10:36:06 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/8/2016 7:15:06 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
An interesting topic regarding genetics and its relation to evolution is determining the rate at which information gaining mutations accumulate to create new functional genes and such. The topic itself was first touched upon by John Burdon Sanderson Haldane, one of the key founders of population genetics. The result of Haldane's calculations found that information-gaining mutations cannot accumulate enough in the supposed time period in which human evolution occurred. While Haldane himself admitted that his calculations needed some reworking, the question became known as Haldane's dilemma.

while I admire Haldane for his insights, I haven't a clue what is meant by "information gaining mutations"
Mutations are random modifications of a String of nucleotides in a gene, which may generate a new gene with corresponding changes in the phylogeny of the individual.

At 10/8/2016 7:15:06 PM, NothingSpecial99 wrote:
The latest paper on the topic by John C. Sanford has a rather interesting conclusion when taking a look at the waiting problem.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Thoughts?

Nowhere in his article, does Sanford even mention "information gaining mutations".
Why?