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Socioty is biased toward Marriage

Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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2/28/2011 3:48:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've often wondered why fight so hard for state recognition of your marriage, if I try looking at it from the gay's perspective. Cause if I believed there was nothing wrong or unholy with the marriage of me and my would-be-spouse, then who cares all that much if the state recognizes it, or if other people approve? you cant control what other people think so I should not let it bother how I think.

Is it tax reasons?
Visitation rights is often mentioned in debates?
Is there one person who is honestly in jail because they threw a wedding ceremony for a non-state recognized marriage?

Actually, even if any of those things are true and I don't know about it, I don't really care for the purposes of this thread. Because I think there's a reason for pursuing the recognition so fervently apart from those things.

Desire of Social Status of being a married person.

Strait's are just as guilty of wanting this as gay's; is it not often said by some divorcee's that they were 'in love with the idea of being married' more than 'loving the person' they were marrying?
I think society has somehow biased us all to need the recognition of being married at some point in our life, I cant find a self-help book out there that seems to talk to you like your not in some kind of stage of relationship with someone else, even if its an obscure a topic as financial peace. It may at the most open minded phasing of your situation assume you could still be dating when you read the book and not already married.

As a single guy not in any relationship with anyone I find it incredibly annoying that everything out there in society feels like its talking to us as if we are supposed to be in a relationship. As if in some way we must be defined by our relationships with another. I've heard some parents of high school kids note they children even developing this mentality by always 'bringing a guy home', as soon as one relationship is over its priority to these people to find another.

Its time we start breaking this social trend and just be happy to be who we are before we are in a relationship and after it ends. The only person we should need to define us is ourselves, not the person who we date or marry. Its time to learn to be a peace with just being single for any period of time.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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2/28/2011 3:52:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Another grievance about the worlds bias in favor of married people, is there any reason why we seem to be afraid to elect single politicians? http://www.congress.org...

After all your president cant be caught cheating on his wife if he is not married to start with. you would think single status should be preferred and yet the only way a person ever gets elected seems to require they get married to someone first.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,313
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2/28/2011 7:54:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Marriage is typically viewed as a civic duty similar to signing up for selective service. This is why politicians are usually married, to promote civil duty, whatever that means.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/28/2011 8:04:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 3:48:27 PM, Marauder wrote:
I've often wondered why fight so hard for state recognition of your marriage, if I try looking at it from the gay's perspective. Cause if I believed there was nothing wrong or unholy with the marriage of me and my would-be-spouse, then who cares all that much if the state recognizes it, or if other people approve? you cant control what other people think so I should not let it bother how I think.


Nurse: I am sorry sir, you can't go in there.
Gay man: But my husband is in there.
Nurse: Pardon...
Gay man: I am gay, my partner is gay, and we are married, and he is in that room and I want to visit him.
Nurse: Hmm... that sounds unlikely and illegal, if you don't leave I will call the police.

Meanwhile the guys son has given permission for his fathers life support system to be turned off.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/28/2011 8:07:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 7:55:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I think I just accidentally convinced myself for the issue of gay marriage. crap.

Why are you against it exactly? Religious reasons?
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/28/2011 8:21:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 3:48:27 PM, Marauder wrote:
I've often wondered why fight so hard for state recognition of your marriage, if I try looking at it from the gay's perspective.:

Because homosexuals don't want a separate but equal policy. But I take it a step further by not wanting any federal recognition within the federal government. I also want to denude religions from having any State function based on the Establishment Clause of the Constitution.

At the end of the day though, they're fighting not so much because they want it, but because they're told they can't have it (although some gay couples really do want to be married in a traditional sense).
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,313
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2/28/2011 8:30:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 8:07:46 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/28/2011 7:55:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I think I just accidentally convinced myself for the issue of gay marriage. crap.

Why are you against it exactly? Religious reasons?

I guess I can say I used to be against it in that I thought it was at least partially a religious institution and that religions should have a right to discriminate.

Now I think I have convinced myself otherwise by looking at marriage as a civic duty, by understanding why electable politicians are often married.

Have you ever done that? Accidentally convinced yourself of something?
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/28/2011 8:36:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I guess I can say I used to be against it in that I thought it was at least partially a religious institution and that religions should have a right to discriminate.:

This is precisely why government and religion should not be in unison on affairs like marriage. It forces theists to either commit a crime or disown their god. Not cool.

Now I think I have convinced myself otherwise by looking at marriage as a civic duty, by understanding why electable politicians are often married.:

Civic duty? How's that?

Have you ever done that? Accidentally convinced yourself of something?:

Probably, but nothing comes to mind at this moment.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/28/2011 9:27:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think society is biased towards straight, middle aged, married, white males that drop out of high school. Could be wrong tho, but those tend to have the most respect, and most money. (Johnny Depp for example, although he got divorced, still counts I say.)

As far as other parts are concerned I think gays want to marry because they want to be treated equally. If it was really religious, how come atheists get married?
If atheists can get married why can't gays?
As long as they can't, they feel hated and persecuted because of it, because arguments against letting them marry, hold no water, especially in the western world.

People tend to favor those in more developed relationships, and I think that has to do with people associating it with maturity.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/1/2011 12:41:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 9:27:16 PM, lovelife wrote:

People tend to favor those in more developed relationships, and I think that has to do with people associating it with maturity.

Well they should stop; being single and in no relationship whatsoever should not be considered a sign of immaturity. you are not made more of a person by dating someone or being hitched, and by my observation its the ones who don't need someone all-ways attached to their arm that show stronger character.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
lovelife
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3/1/2011 1:02:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/1/2011 12:41:17 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 2/28/2011 9:27:16 PM, lovelife wrote:

People tend to favor those in more developed relationships, and I think that has to do with people associating it with maturity.

Well they should stop; being single and in no relationship whatsoever should not be considered a sign of immaturity. you are not made more of a person by dating someone or being hitched, and by my observation its the ones who don't need someone all-ways attached to their arm that show stronger character.

I'm not saying they are right, just that it seems to be how people think.

People tend to think young and unmarried people like to party, are promiscuous, and that they are not high achievers, while they think of married people as fast paced, (if its been a while, then that's a bonus. Like 50 years shows loyalty, and commitment, which tends to be positive), bright, and overall, successful.

They tend to view divorced people as unlucky, and depending on the situation, terrible. (Recently my aunt's friend got divorced because her husband watched porn. Big freaking deal, but everyone hates him now. I thought, and still think, he's a nice guy, and he seems really upset that she doesn't want him in their daughter's life, which I find 100% BS on her part. Whatever, watching porn is another BS symbol of immaturity, and "unfaithfulness" and "impurity" w/e)
If someone cheats, is abusive, or just walks out on the family, they tend to be seen as negative, however, the victims tend to be pitied, and held in higher esteem.

Those are just some thoughts I have on the general thoughts of relationships.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/1/2011 1:06:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 8:04:39 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 2/28/2011 3:48:27 PM, Marauder wrote:
I've often wondered why fight so hard for state recognition of your marriage, if I try looking at it from the gay's perspective. Cause if I believed there was nothing wrong or unholy with the marriage of me and my would-be-spouse, then who cares all that much if the state recognizes it, or if other people approve? you cant control what other people think so I should not let it bother how I think.


Nurse: I am sorry sir, you can't go in there.
Gay man: But my husband is in there.
Nurse: Pardon...
Gay man: I am gay, my partner is gay, and we are married, and he is in that room and I want to visit him.
Nurse: Hmm... that sounds unlikely and illegal, if you don't leave I will call the police.

Meanwhile the guys son has given permission for his fathers life support system to be turned off.

If you were paying attention I mentioned this issue....
Is it tax reasons?
Visitation rights is often mentioned in debates?
Is there one person who is honestly in jail because they threw a wedding ::ceremony for a non-state recognized marriage?

Actually, even if any of those things are true and I don't know about it, I don't ::really care for the purposes of this thread. Because I think there's a reason for ::pursuing the recognition so fervently apart from those things.

Desire of Social Status of being a married person.

even if there are bizarre cases where visitation rights are skewed in certain states, or even if it makes a tax deference being recognized as married, I made this thread to discuss as among those contributing factors the simple desire of social status as I think this is something that goes across the board on all sides. If it were just visitation rights then why not just fight for those under different recognition? like the civil union? or just openly give title to 'gay partner' without stepping on all the political resistance to naming it marriage? It would be a lot easier and as far as the couple can be concerned its a semantic difference only for the relationship they have with each other?

cause among the things desired by wanting to be called 'married' is the inherent value of the social status of not being single. and this is stupid.
And yet all people, whether strait or gay seem to have this fear 'oh I hope I don't die alone and single, oh it would be horrible if when I'm 40 I still don't have a spouse.' It is retarded to think that way, but I notice so many do.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/1/2011 1:10:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 7:54:04 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Marriage is typically viewed as a civic duty similar to signing up for selective service. This is why politicians are usually married, to promote civil duty, whatever that means.

How the hell is it a Civic duty for one to get married? I thought democratic nations like mine pride there country as being defined by our independence, and yet its our duty to be so attached to another? Is not 'Free man' and 'single man' synonymous terms? It should be our civic duty to stay single if anything for how it represent our individual-ness rather than marriage.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/1/2011 1:17:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 8:21:53 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/28/2011 3:48:27 PM, Marauder wrote:
I've often wondered why fight so hard for state recognition of your marriage, if I try looking at it from the gay's perspective.:

Because homosexuals don't want a separate but equal policy. But I take it a step further by not wanting any federal recognition within the federal government. I also want to denude religions from having any State function based on the Establishment Clause of the Constitution.

At the end of the day though, they're fighting not so much because they want it, but because they're told they can't have it (although some gay couples really do want to be married in a traditional sense).

We have never considered marriage, it just never seemed to be necessary. I can understand the benefits of a contractual arrangement, particularly if there are children involved but truthfully, for me now, it would be an unnecessary risk for me to take - i.e. marrying my partner.

However, after hearing some potential changes to the federal law due to Obama picking and choosing which laws he is going to enforce without SC approval, i have had a conversation with Carlos. If i can derive the same tax benefits at the federal level as straights, then it might be in my best interest to marry him.

My personal feelings on marriage lie in both, but separate levels of religious and secular. Religious would be a covenant before God, and would involve a ceremony of some sort. Secular is simply a contractual arrangement along the lines of a civil union before a judge. For my purposes the latter would be appropriate.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/1/2011 1:19:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 8:30:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/28/2011 8:07:46 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/28/2011 7:55:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I think I just accidentally convinced myself for the issue of gay marriage. crap.

Why are you against it exactly? Religious reasons?

I guess I can say I used to be against it in that I thought it was at least partially a religious institution and that religions should have a right to discriminate.

like the supreme court ruled about the BSA

Now I think I have convinced myself otherwise by looking at marriage as a civic duty, by understanding why electable politicians are often married.

why is it a civic duty just cause campaigning politicians look to appeal to our head-case nations inner psycho-baisedness to get a there vote?

Civic duty should be about things that help the community, not throwing expensive parties with cake and wine and mushy love songs. If you argue its a duty from stipulating that people need to get married one day to raise kids, the single man or woman can adopt a child and raise one for 'civic duty' as much as the married can

Have you ever done that? Accidentally convinced yourself of something?
yes; I am familiar with the feeling, I cant think of details to a particular case but I know this has happened to me too before.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/1/2011 1:25:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/1/2011 1:02:08 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 3/1/2011 12:41:17 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 2/28/2011 9:27:16 PM, lovelife wrote:

People tend to favor those in more developed relationships, and I think that has to do with people associating it with maturity.

Well they should stop; being single and in no relationship whatsoever should not be considered a sign of immaturity. you are not made more of a person by dating someone or being hitched, and by my observation its the ones who don't need someone all-ways attached to their arm that show stronger character.

I'm not saying they are right, just that it seems to be how people think.

People tend to think young and unmarried people like to party, are promiscuous, and that they are not high achievers, while they think of married people as fast paced, (if its been a while, then that's a bonus. Like 50 years shows loyalty, and commitment, which tends to be positive), bright, and overall, successful.

They tend to view divorced people as unlucky, and depending on the situation, terrible. (Recently my aunt's friend got divorced because her husband watched porn. Big freaking deal, but everyone hates him now. I thought, and still think, he's a nice guy, and he seems really upset that she doesn't want him in their daughter's life, which I find 100% BS on her part. Whatever, watching porn is another BS symbol of immaturity, and "unfaithfulness" and "impurity" w/e)
If someone cheats, is abusive, or just walks out on the family, they tend to be seen as negative, however, the victims tend to be pitied, and held in higher esteem.

Those are just some thoughts I have on the general thoughts of relationships.

I agree. If only there was a way to cause a social paradigm shift on much of this view of the married, single, and divorced.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.