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Trolling

Kleptin
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3/6/2011 10:36:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
On the subject of trolling:

Trolls take pleasure in eliciting negative attention and in generating unproductive confrontation. Because these things are normally things that people avoid, I think that it represents a psychological issue.

Social isolation gives them a sense of powerlessness. Being rejected by their peers or being ignored leads to low self esteem. To deal with this, they purposely provoke these negative responses. They are convinced that since they will not be given any positive attention, they may as well be able to CONTROL the rejection they will inevitably face.

They romanticize this control, they pretend that they are doing something they wish to do and they begin to take joy in "trolling", again, because it gives them the illusion that they can control the fact that others hate them.

The question is this:

Is the long established rule of "not feeding the troll" a legitimate act? By refusing to listen, do we really discourage trolls, or do we simply deepen the troll's need for social acceptance?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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3/6/2011 10:43:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 10:36:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I love this thread, Kleptin.

Is the long established rule of "not feeding the troll" a legitimate act?

I think it depends on the intent. If it is to show displeasure in their acts and to prove that the site won't give them what they crave, then I do believe it is a legitimate act.
They count on their success at trolling and on their abilities to elicit negative responses. You are showing that you won't play into their twisted game for attention, even though their actions can upset you.

However, the longer you try to ignore them -- the more obscene or brash they can become. They will purposely say or do what they know will create problems. And it becomes increasingly harder to laugh it off and focus on the serious threads. It really is a double-edged sword.

By refusing to listen, do we really discourage trolls, or do we simply deepen the troll's need for social acceptance?

It's a complex psychological craving for attention once they start seeking negative attention for the sake of being noticed. I'm left wondering: should I care if I deepen their need for social recognition if I cannot tolerate their actions?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/6/2011 10:47:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 10:36:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Is the long established rule of "not feeding the troll" a legitimate act? By refusing to listen, do we really discourage trolls, or do we simply deepen the troll's need for social acceptance?

perhaps we do deepen their need for acceptance, but we also do not reward them with what they crave for negative attention seeking behaviors. this encourages them to either go elsewhere or attempt other methods of gaining attention. depending on the intelligence level of the troll, its possible ignoring them could actually get them to realize the fruitlessness of their efforts and attempt to engage people on a real level. that bit might be wishful thinking though...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Kleptin
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3/6/2011 10:47:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 10:43:34 PM, annhasle wrote:
I'm left wondering: should I care if I deepen their need for social recognition if I :cannot tolerate their actions?

I think the question is "Will their actions cease if their need is fulfilled?"
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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3/6/2011 10:52:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 10:47:38 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 3/6/2011 10:43:34 PM, annhasle wrote:
I'm left wondering: should I care if I deepen their need for social recognition if I :cannot tolerate their actions?

I think the question is "Will their actions cease if their need is fulfilled?"

I sincerely doubt so. They will recognize trolling as something that works -- it draws the attention they want, elicits the responses which they have come to depend on while they act as though they are in control. Becoming one of the "serious" ones would be like blending in, and that is not tempting to them.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
annhasle
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3/6/2011 10:53:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 10:49:44 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Not feeding the troll is proven to be effective against combating trolls.

For the time being. But I think many of the trolls do come back, usually in the form of a new account.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/6/2011 10:53:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 10:36:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:

Is the long established rule of "not feeding the troll" a legitimate act? By refusing to listen, do we really discourage trolls, or do we simply deepen the troll's need for social acceptance?

I think for some, simply ignoring them does work. There are about three or four trolls who now rarely post here because I was the main person feeding them and I got bored.

Of course Askbob phoning people up is probably more effective.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/6/2011 11:07:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Perhaps there's a reason thegodhand immediately stopped and made a public apology when I showed him a little compassion. I explained that it brings more enjoyment making friends with the people here than trolling them. Now he has rested his trolling , yet everyone else continues to shun him. Maybe I'm crazy but think a little positive feedback for a positive action might just be a good thing.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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3/6/2011 11:07:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 10:53:34 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

Of course Askbob phoning people up is probably more effective.

haha!

One of my classmates is doing a thesis on social anxiety and computer-mediated communication. Don't want to give too much away but the topic is really interesting.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/7/2011 12:18:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 11:07:10 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/6/2011 10:53:34 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

Of course Askbob phoning people up is probably more effective.

haha!

One of my classmates is doing a thesis on social anxiety and computer-mediated communication. Don't want to give too much away but the topic is really interesting.

lol are you implying that people with social anxiety disorder are more likely to be trolls?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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3/7/2011 12:28:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Sometimes trolling is just for the lulz.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/7/2011 4:20:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 11:07:04 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Perhaps there's a reason thegodhand immediately stopped and made a public apology when I showed him a little compassion. I explained that it brings more enjoyment making friends with the people here than trolling them. Now he has rested his trolling , yet everyone else continues to shun him. Maybe I'm crazy but think a little positive feedback for a positive action might just be a good thing.

I began to PM him with that very intention, and it wasn't going well, but then i encouraged him to seek you out, as i had a feeling you would be best to work with someone who is like this guy. In a last PM he said you convinced him to spend less time in the forums, and to go straight and narrow - we shall see. He really just wants to play games.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/7/2011 4:23:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Tangentially, is there a real life parallel to trolls? Or is this a unique occurrence in the internet with the anonymity and lack of physical intimidation as a factor?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/7/2011 4:24:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 4:23:00 AM, innomen wrote:
Tangentially, is there a real life parallel to trolls? Or is this a unique occurrence in the internet with the anonymity and lack of physical intimidation as a factor?

fillibustering is trolling down by the government. Hurray for the government being the original trolls XD.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/7/2011 4:49:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 4:20:20 AM, innomen wrote:
At 3/6/2011 11:07:04 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Perhaps there's a reason thegodhand immediately stopped and made a public apology when I showed him a little compassion. I explained that it brings more enjoyment making friends with the people here than trolling them. Now he has rested his trolling , yet everyone else continues to shun him. Maybe I'm crazy but think a little positive feedback for a positive action might just be a good thing.

I began to PM him with that very intention, and it wasn't going well, but then i encouraged him to seek you out, as i had a feeling you would be best to work with someone who is like this guy. In a last PM he said you convinced him to spend less time in the forums, and to go straight and narrow - we shall see. He really just wants to play games.

Thank you for doing that.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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3/7/2011 6:30:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 10:53:03 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 3/6/2011 10:49:44 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Not feeding the troll is proven to be effective against combating trolls.

For the time being. But I think many of the trolls do come back, usually in the form of a new account.:

Yep, and this is the central problem and always has been. It's like they're trying to hit the reset button and reinvent themselves. They were despised under their last alias, so starting a new one creates a temporal feeling of starting a new persona. It's like redemption. It's a safe way to start over in the hopes that we'll like the new person.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/7/2011 8:16:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 4:49:36 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/7/2011 4:20:20 AM, innomen wrote:
At 3/6/2011 11:07:04 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Perhaps there's a reason thegodhand immediately stopped and made a public apology when I showed him a little compassion. I explained that it brings more enjoyment making friends with the people here than trolling them. Now he has rested his trolling , yet everyone else continues to shun him. Maybe I'm crazy but think a little positive feedback for a positive action might just be a good thing.

I began to PM him with that very intention, and it wasn't going well, but then i encouraged him to seek you out, as i had a feeling you would be best to work with someone who is like this guy. In a last PM he said you convinced him to spend less time in the forums, and to go straight and narrow - we shall see. He really just wants to play games.

Thank you for doing that.

Sarcasm? Or am i just too cynical?

Actually, it was an educated guess that you're pretty good at working with younger kids.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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3/7/2011 10:05:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 9:45:54 AM, innomen wrote:
At 3/7/2011 9:34:58 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
How old is thegodhand?

12
Well that explains it.

Lol, why are y'all so hard on the kid.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/7/2011 10:07:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 10:05:22 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 3/7/2011 9:45:54 AM, innomen wrote:
At 3/7/2011 9:34:58 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
How old is thegodhand?

12
Well that explains it.

Lol, why are y'all so hard on the kid.

nuisance is nuisance, no matter the age.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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3/7/2011 10:13:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Troll were originally people you seek glee in pissing people off. It's not a defense or a means to seek control.
At 3/6/2011 10:36:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:

The question is this:

Is the long established rule of "not feeding the troll" a legitimate act? By refusing to listen, do we really discourage trolls, or do we simply deepen the troll's need for social acceptance?
You said that the troll trolls as a means to control the form and time he receives attention. Surely then if you eliminate their ability to control the attention they receive you have defeated the very drive of the troll itself.

Since I disagree on your critique on the drive trolling, my ideas are very different.
At 3/7/2011 12:28:54 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Sometimes trolling is just for the lulz.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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3/7/2011 10:15:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 10:07:07 AM, innomen wrote:
At 3/7/2011 10:05:22 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 3/7/2011 9:45:54 AM, innomen wrote:
At 3/7/2011 9:34:58 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
How old is thegodhand?

12
Well that explains it.

Lol, why are y'all so hard on the kid.

nuisance is nuisance, no matter the age.
A nuisance must be dealt with differently according to their age. Do it incorrectly and you'll have a "an hero" here on DDO.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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3/7/2011 12:22:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
When I was younger, back in the mIRC days ('90s), I occasionally took to trolling. It brought some quick satiation from boredom... Let me give you a troll's POV.

A troll needs (2) things::
1) Emotional Response
2) Rules to break

DDO is lush in both these areas, so it is no wonder we have trolls (although our relatively insignificant size/status keeps us safe for the most part). If this site gained in numbers trolls would be a much worse problem.

I noticed DDOers preoccupy themselves with trolls quite a bit. This thread is no exception. I think you guys like the trolls, to be honest. They are given attention and even used as food for our ideologies (e.g., Ragnar - "private property," and Kleptin's opportunity to discuss the finer points of morality). You are not special in this regard, as society generally needs a troll to attack. Drug users are seen as the problem with Mexican cartels (http://www.debate.org...), homeless people free-riding are seen as the problem with our economy, minorities for crime, etc. We love to have someone to hate (the meek) and the trolls satisfy this for you. The relationship between the troll and the trolled is symbiotic.

But this isn't enough to keep the troll interested. The troll also needs a feeling of accomplishment; challenge. There's nothing more satisfying for a troll than to be banned and to get back through with an alternate identity. Even while banned the troll can still read through the forums and see how much trouble he is causing, while we scramble to find a solution to force him out (in vain). If the bans weren't implemented then sure, the troll would probably still reset his identity and return but it just isn't that glorious when it's not against the rules and the troll will find glory in some other medium.

When I was godhand's age I used to shoplift on a daily basis to sate this desire. The little bit of money I made off it wasn't that big of a deal, but the feeling when you pass through that door knowing an alarm might sound and security guards might be chasing you is... indescribably exciting. I would shoplift at at least half a dozen stores (if not more) a day, eager to get my fix. As you walk towards the door with the prize your pulse quickens, your temperature rises, and you try to keep cool. As you pass through successfully, it's like this wash of satisfaction flows over you. Kleptomania is a much more concentrated form of this rule-breaking emotional satisfaction but it is indeed the same. Rules are, after all, just made to be broken.
kfc
chucknorriz
Posts: 2
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3/7/2011 1:25:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 12:22:28 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
When I was younger, back in the mIRC days ('90s), I occasionally took to trolling. It brought some quick satiation from boredom... Let me give you a troll's POV.

A troll needs (2) things::
1) Emotional Response
2) Rules to break

DDO is lush in both these areas, so it is no wonder we have trolls (although our relatively insignificant size/status keeps us safe for the most part). If this site gained in numbers trolls would be a much worse problem.

I noticed DDOers preoccupy themselves with trolls quite a bit. This thread is no exception. I think you guys like the trolls, to be honest. They are given attention and even used as food for our ideologies (e.g., Ragnar - "private property," and Kleptin's opportunity to discuss the finer points of morality). You are not special in this regard, as society generally needs a troll to attack. Drug users are seen as the problem with Mexican cartels (http://www.debate.org...), homeless people free-riding are seen as the problem with our economy, minorities for crime, etc. We love to have someone to hate (the meek) and the trolls satisfy this for you. The relationship between the troll and the trolled is symbiotic.

But this isn't enough to keep the troll interested. The troll also needs a feeling of accomplishment; challenge. There's nothing more satisfying for a troll than to be banned and to get back through with an alternate identity. Even while banned the troll can still read through the forums and see how much trouble he is causing, while we scramble to find a solution to force him out (in vain). If the bans weren't implemented then sure, the troll would probably still reset his identity and return but it just isn't that glorious when it's not against the rules and the troll will find glory in some other medium.

When I was godhand's age I used to shoplift on a daily basis to sate this desire. The little bit of money I made off it wasn't that big of a deal, but the feeling when you pass through that door knowing an alarm might sound and security guards might be chasing you is... indescribably exciting. I would shoplift at at least half a dozen stores (if not more) a day, eager to get my fix. As you walk towards the door with the prize your pulse quickens, your temperature rises, and you try to keep cool. As you pass through successfully, it's like this wash of satisfaction flows over you. Kleptomania is a much more concentrated form of this rule-breaking emotional satisfaction but it is indeed the same. Rules are, after all, just made to be broken.

This story is known as "bullsh*t trolling."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/7/2011 6:56:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 8:16:31 AM, innomen wrote:
At 3/7/2011 4:49:36 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/7/2011 4:20:20 AM, innomen wrote:
At 3/6/2011 11:07:04 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Perhaps there's a reason thegodhand immediately stopped and made a public apology when I showed him a little compassion. I explained that it brings more enjoyment making friends with the people here than trolling them. Now he has rested his trolling , yet everyone else continues to shun him. Maybe I'm crazy but think a little positive feedback for a positive action might just be a good thing.

I began to PM him with that very intention, and it wasn't going well, but then i encouraged him to seek you out, as i had a feeling you would be best to work with someone who is like this guy. In a last PM he said you convinced him to spend less time in the forums, and to go straight and narrow - we shall see. He really just wants to play games.

Thank you for doing that.

Sarcasm? Or am i just too cynical?

Actually, it was an educated guess that you're pretty good at working with younger kids.

Not sarcasm. And I am.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
badger
Posts: 11,793
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3/8/2011 4:16:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 10:36:49 PM, Kleptin wrote:
On the subject of trolling:

Trolls take pleasure in eliciting negative attention and in generating unproductive confrontation. Because these things are normally things that people avoid, I think that it represents a psychological issue.

Social isolation gives them a sense of powerlessness. Being rejected by their peers or being ignored leads to low self esteem. To deal with this, they purposely provoke these negative responses. They are convinced that since they will not be given any positive attention, they may as well be able to CONTROL the rejection they will inevitably face.

They romanticize this control, they pretend that they are doing something they wish to do and they begin to take joy in "trolling", again, because it gives them the illusion that they can control the fact that others hate them.

The question is this:

Is the long established rule of "not feeding the troll" a legitimate act? By refusing to listen, do we really discourage trolls, or do we simply deepen the troll's need for social acceptance?

did i inspire this? lol
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