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Comparative life value - cops.

innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/9/2011 5:18:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Should the penalty for killing a police officer be greater be greater than that for killing a civilian? I never really understood why their life is of greater value than the life of anyone else.

I shouldn't say that I don't understand it, I just don't agree with it. I understand the argument that there needs to be greater deterrence, or greater standards for respecting the law, or some such related position. However, I have a slight resentment for this split in the value of a human life, at least on this basis.

Am I alone in this?
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/9/2011 5:31:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:18:09 PM, innomen wrote:
Should the penalty for killing a police officer be greater be greater than that for killing a civilian? I never really understood why their life is of greater value than the life of anyone else.

I shouldn't say that I don't understand it, I just don't agree with it. I understand the argument that there needs to be greater deterrence, or greater standards for respecting the law, or some such related position. However, I have a slight resentment for this split in the value of a human life, at least on this basis.

Am I alone in this?
No, and it is nonsense. The doctor protects lives. The psychologist protects lives. All are humans or same degree.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/9/2011 5:32:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.

It's not just with officers, it's with most things. For example, if one kills a hooker or a drug dealer vs killing doctor. Or if one kills a child vs killing an old man. Or if someone kills a mother of three vs killing someone that has no family and likes to party.

We tend to value things different, and life is no different. We value lives of people that do things that we like more than we value lives of people that do things we dislike.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/9/2011 5:33:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:32:24 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.

It's not just with officers, it's with most things. For example, if one kills a hooker or a drug dealer vs killing doctor. Or if one kills a child vs killing an old man. Or if someone kills a mother of three vs killing someone that has no family and likes to party.

We tend to value things different, and life is no different. We value lives of people that do things that we like more than we value lives of people that do things we dislike.

Ya but I'm pretty sure there is a legal difference in killing a cop vs someone else.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/9/2011 5:38:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:33:44 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:32:24 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.

It's not just with officers, it's with most things. For example, if one kills a hooker or a drug dealer vs killing doctor. Or if one kills a child vs killing an old man. Or if someone kills a mother of three vs killing someone that has no family and likes to party.

We tend to value things different, and life is no different. We value lives of people that do things that we like more than we value lives of people that do things we dislike.

Ya but I'm pretty sure there is a legal difference in killing a cop vs someone else.

No, both constitute murder by law. However, prosecution is less likely to accept a plee bargin, since they know that the jury is going to be very empathetic for a murder police officer.

Though I do believe there are legal differences when it comes to assulting a police officer vs assulting a normal person. I believe that is to attempt to discourage people from resisting arrest.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/9/2011 5:38:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
they choose a profession in which they enforce laws that restrict individual liberty set up by the government. I do not blame them for choosing this profession, but do not value their life over a hooker.
Open borders debate:
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/9/2011 5:39:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:38:05 PM, darkkermit wrote:
they choose a profession in which they enforce laws that restrict individual liberty set up by the government. I do not blame them for choosing this profession, but do not value their life over a hooker.

although the hooker actually does provide a service to people that need it.

A cop can provide a service to those who have been victims to crime, but many crimes are victimless and provide a service to nobody.
Open borders debate:
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Ore_Ele
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3/9/2011 5:48:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:46:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
well if you kill a cop, you automatically get resisting arrest by default...

What if you killed as your only crime? Like, not while fleeing, just pulled next to one at a donut shop and capped him, then put down your gun and your hands in the air to be arrested?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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3/9/2011 5:50:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:48:08 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:46:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
well if you kill a cop, you automatically get resisting arrest by default...

What if you killed as your only crime? Like, not while fleeing, just pulled next to one at a donut shop and capped him, then put down your gun and your hands in the air to be arrested?

His partner would probably shoot you anyway.

Fück the police.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/9/2011 5:53:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:32:24 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.

It's not just with officers, it's with most things. For example, if one kills a hooker or a drug dealer vs killing doctor. Or if one kills a child vs killing an old man. Or if someone kills a mother of three vs killing someone that has no family and likes to party.

We tend to value things different, and life is no different. We value lives of people that do things that we like more than we value lives of people that do things we dislike.

Well I don't value cops because they do things I don't like. Now what?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/9/2011 5:55:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:53:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:32:24 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.

It's not just with officers, it's with most things. For example, if one kills a hooker or a drug dealer vs killing doctor. Or if one kills a child vs killing an old man. Or if someone kills a mother of three vs killing someone that has no family and likes to party.

We tend to value things different, and life is no different. We value lives of people that do things that we like more than we value lives of people that do things we dislike.

Well I don't value cops because they do things I don't like. Now what?

I don't value your mother because she didn't do the things I like.

jk.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/9/2011 6:00:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:57:12 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Here in Canada I'm pretty sure it's automatically first degree murder if the victim is a cop or prison guard.

Yes. If it is while fleeing and you hit them with your car, it is murder, though I believe that if you are fleeing a crime scene and you hit and kill a pedestrian, it is 1st degree murder aswell.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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3/9/2011 6:50:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:32:24 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.

It's not just with officers, it's with most things. For example, if one kills a hooker or a drug dealer vs killing doctor. Or if one kills a child vs killing an old man. Or if someone kills a mother of three vs killing someone that has no family and likes to party.

We tend to value things different, and life is no different. We value lives of people that do things that we like more than we value lives of people that do things we dislike.

you don't get punished less for killing a hooker vs a mother of 3 that goes to church every week and donates cookies to the homeless.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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3/9/2011 6:54:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 6:50:59 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:32:24 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.

It's not just with officers, it's with most things. For example, if one kills a hooker or a drug dealer vs killing doctor. Or if one kills a child vs killing an old man. Or if someone kills a mother of three vs killing someone that has no family and likes to party.

We tend to value things different, and life is no different. We value lives of people that do things that we like more than we value lives of people that do things we dislike.

you don't get punished less for killing a hooker vs a mother of 3 that goes to church every week and donates cookies to the homeless.

But people care less, and it affects media coverage drastically.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/10/2011 6:21:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 6:50:59 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:32:24 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.

It's not just with officers, it's with most things. For example, if one kills a hooker or a drug dealer vs killing doctor. Or if one kills a child vs killing an old man. Or if someone kills a mother of three vs killing someone that has no family and likes to party.

We tend to value things different, and life is no different. We value lives of people that do things that we like more than we value lives of people that do things we dislike.

you don't get punished less for killing a hooker vs a mother of 3 that goes to church every week and donates cookies to the homeless.

There is nothing in law, but I am almost certain that if you looked at the statistics you would find a clear difference in length of sentence between the two.
For example if I were to kill the current British cabinet, I'd probably get a medal.
Trial by media indeed.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/10/2011 10:46:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:57:12 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Here in Canada I'm pretty sure it's automatically first degree murder if the victim is a cop or prison guard.

So what does that mean in Canada, no HBO in their cell? Just basic cable?
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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3/10/2011 10:52:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:18:09 PM, innomen wrote:
Should the penalty for killing a police officer be greater be greater than that for killing a civilian?:

No, it's preposterous.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/10/2011 11:47:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 6:50:59 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:32:24 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:22:27 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I had never thought if it like that, but you are right they're lives are held more valuable only because of the profession they chose.

It's not just with officers, it's with most things. For example, if one kills a hooker or a drug dealer vs killing doctor. Or if one kills a child vs killing an old man. Or if someone kills a mother of three vs killing someone that has no family and likes to party.

We tend to value things different, and life is no different. We value lives of people that do things that we like more than we value lives of people that do things we dislike.

you don't get punished less for killing a hooker vs a mother of 3 that goes to church every week and donates cookies to the homeless.

You are more likely going to get a plea bargin for a reduced sentence though.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/10/2011 11:48:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/10/2011 10:46:16 AM, innomen wrote:
At 3/9/2011 5:57:12 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Here in Canada I'm pretty sure it's automatically first degree murder if the victim is a cop or prison guard.

So what does that mean in Canada, no HBO in their cell? Just basic cable?

That is cruel and unusual punishment!
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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3/10/2011 12:04:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well I don't value cops because they do things I don't like. Now what?:

People hate cops up until the moment they need them.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/10/2011 12:06:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/10/2011 12:04:11 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Well I don't value cops because they do things I don't like. Now what?:

People hate cops up until the moment they need them.

very true.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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3/10/2011 1:56:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/9/2011 5:18:09 PM, innomen wrote:
Should the penalty for killing a police officer be greater be greater than that for killing a civilian? I never really understood why their life is of greater value than the life of anyone else.

I shouldn't say that I don't understand it, I just don't agree with it. I understand the argument that there needs to be greater deterrence, or greater standards for respecting the law, or some such related position. However, I have a slight resentment for this split in the value of a human life, at least on this basis.

Am I alone in this?

Any individuals working in a potentially life threatening profession deserves respect.

They may have chosen the job out of selfishness, or because they did not get any other job or whatever reason, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they are doing a job which we are not willing to do, especially because we may lose our life.

Hence the supposed greater value for the lives of policemen, soldiers, etc.
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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3/10/2011 2:23:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/10/2011 2:18:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Firemen save lives as well.
Don't you see any difference between a fireman and a policeman?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
reddj2
Posts: 239
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3/10/2011 5:15:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/10/2011 2:23:46 PM, Indophile wrote:
At 3/10/2011 2:18:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Firemen save lives as well.
Don't you see any difference between a fireman and a policeman?
Nope firemen ARE THE BIGGEST A-HOLES EVER!!!
F them
Alway putting outfires that I start or ruining my Insurance schemes, bastards ...

But your right no one wants to talk to the guy High on PcP or get shot at .
Firefighters do an important job but your less likely to die .
So people would you bust into a house knowing the guy is armed or even take down a 250pound body builder high of his a$$ ?
I wouldn't. Cops are mainly deterrents
When you drive and you see a cop you instantly try to make sure your not doing anything illegal .
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/10/2011 5:24:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/10/2011 5:15:01 PM, reddj2 wrote:
At 3/10/2011 2:23:46 PM, Indophile wrote:
At 3/10/2011 2:18:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Firemen save lives as well.
Don't you see any difference between a fireman and a policeman?
Nope firemen ARE THE BIGGEST A-HOLES EVER!!!
F them
Alway putting outfires that I start or ruining my Insurance schemes, bastards ...

But your right no one wants to talk to the guy High on PcP or get shot at .
Firefighters do an important job but your less likely to die .
So people would you bust into a house knowing the guy is armed or even take down a 250pound body builder high of his a$$ ?
I wouldn't. Cops are mainly deterrents
When you drive and you see a cop you instantly try to make sure your not doing anything illegal .

Though that gets annoying, when people see a cop on the side of the road and they slow to 10 under the speed limit.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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3/10/2011 9:18:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/10/2011 12:06:09 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/10/2011 12:04:11 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Well I don't value cops because they do things I don't like. Now what?:

People hate cops up until the moment they need them.

very true.

...except that they are never needed.
kfc