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Gay Teacher - Kid says 'No" - Legal?

racist
Posts: 190
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4/3/2011 8:35:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Can a 10 year old boy refuse to be taught by a gay teacher? Does this child have any rights about his education? Will he be vilified as"Homophobic?"and shunned by the rest of the class? Will he be forcibly 're-educated'?
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/3/2011 8:45:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 8:35:51 PM, racist wrote:
Can a 10 year old boy refuse to be taught by a gay teacher? Does this child have any rights about his education? Will he be vilified as"Homophobic?"and shunned by the rest of the class? Will he be forcibly 're-educated'?

Bigotry should have no place in schools, for one.

For another, 10 year olds do not have rights. A 10 year old may not, for instance, refuse medical treatment, though their parents can refuse to allow them to be treated but may be prosecuted for neglect if they do so.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/3/2011 8:45:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 8:35:51 PM, racist wrote:
Can a 10 year old boy refuse to be taught by a gay teacher?

No. Can a young boy of any age refuse to be taught by any teacher?

Does this child have any rights about his education?

Sure, but he doesn't have legitimate grounds to be dismissed from being taught by a gay teacher. If he is to have rights about his education and make such choices, he should have sound justification for doing so.

Will he be vilified as"Homophobic?"and shunned by the rest of the class?

I hope so.

Will he be forcibly 're-educated'?

He ought to be.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/3/2011 8:52:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Y U NO FREEDOM PPLZ ABOVE.

Although it's clearly illegal, it shouldn't be. 10 year olds do have rights, despite the government's policy of violating them. And that includes the right to shun those who disapproves of, whether or not his disapproval is correct.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/3/2011 9:00:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 8:52:53 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Y U NO FREEDOM PPLZ ABOVE.

Um, I never denied the boy rights. I clearly acknowledged that children have rights.

My point was this: "Sure, but he doesn't have legitimate grounds to be dismissed from being taught by a gay teacher. If he is to have rights about his education and make such choices, he should have sound justification for doing so."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/3/2011 9:02:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 9:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/3/2011 8:52:53 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Y U NO FREEDOM PPLZ ABOVE.

Um, I never denied the boy rights. I clearly acknowledged that children have rights.

My point was this: "Sure, but he doesn't have legitimate grounds to be dismissed from being taught by a gay teacher. If he is to have rights about his education and make such choices, he should have sound justification for doing so."

meh, how can something be a right if it can be abridged or taken away due to being deemed insufficiently justified according to you?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
racist
Posts: 190
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4/3/2011 10:22:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 8:45:44 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:


Will he be vilified as"Homophobic?"and shunned by the rest of the class?
I hope so.
Will he be forcibly 're-educated'?
He ought to be.

Could you recommend a nice, exclusive and very gay concentration camp ( sorry - correctional & re-educational facility) for the little feller? I'm sure they can straighten (straight) him out in no time. Cheers!

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/3/2011 11:22:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 9:02:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Um, I never denied the boy rights. I clearly acknowledged that children have rights.

My point was this: "Sure, but he doesn't have legitimate grounds to be dismissed from being taught by a gay teacher. If he is to have rights about his education and make such choices, he should have sound justification for doing so."

meh, how can something be a right if it can be abridged or taken away due to being deemed insufficiently justified according to you?

The gay teachers gayness is not coercing the boy. A justified reason for being dismissed from the class would be if the gay teacher strapped him to chairs with handcuffs, but since the gay teacher is merely teaching, there is no coercion on the teachers part and therefore no liberty is taken away from the boy.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/4/2011 1:52:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The child should fully be able to decide, but the teacher being gay has absolutely nothing to do with it. The child should able to refuse any teacher.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/4/2011 2:02:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 11:22:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:02:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Um, I never denied the boy rights. I clearly acknowledged that children have rights.

My point was this: "Sure, but he doesn't have legitimate grounds to be dismissed from being taught by a gay teacher. If he is to have rights about his education and make such choices, he should have sound justification for doing so."

meh, how can something be a right if it can be abridged or taken away due to being deemed insufficiently justified according to you?

The gay teachers gayness is not coercing the boy. A justified reason for being dismissed from the class would be if the gay teacher strapped him to chairs with handcuffs, but since the gay teacher is merely teaching, there is no coercion on the teachers part and therefore no liberty is taken away from the boy.

The liberty being taken away is the liberty to refuse education. If he is required to attend education, liberty is being taken away from him. The boy is not coercing the teacher by refusing to be taught by the teacher. Freedom implies not having to justify a noncoercive choice in order to be able to make that choice.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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4/4/2011 2:24:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
can he getout of it if he has a male or female teacher?
what about asian, black, hispanic, white, etc teacher?

if the above were answered "no" clearly what the teacher likes inthe bedroom doesn't matter.

if the teacher was a pedophile, however, I dearly hope its not a teacher.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Extremely-Far-Right
Posts: 248
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4/4/2011 11:25:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 8:45:24 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/3/2011 8:35:51 PM, racist wrote:
Can a 10 year old boy refuse to be taught by a gay teacher? Does this child have any rights about his education? Will he be vilified as"Homophobic?"and shunned by the rest of the class? Will he be forcibly 're-educated'?

Bigotry should have no place in schools, for one.

For another, 10 year olds do not have rights. A 10 year old may not, for instance, refuse medical treatment, though their parents can refuse to allow them to be treated but may be prosecuted for neglect if they do so.

Actually, while I do think bigotry shouldn't be present in schools, the schools shouldn't force anyone to believe something they don't see ethical.
Extremely-Far-Right
Posts: 248
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4/4/2011 11:26:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 1:52:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
The child should fully be able to decide, but the teacher being gay has absolutely nothing to do with it. The child should able to refuse any teacher.

Agreed.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,215
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4/4/2011 2:36:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 8:52:53 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Y U NO FREEDOM PPLZ ABOVE.

Although it's clearly illegal, it shouldn't be. 10 year olds do have rights, despite the government's policy of violating them. And that includes the right to shun those who disapproves of, whether or not his disapproval is correct.

The day the government does not require a legal guardian for a 10 year old is the day the 10 year will have the right to make his own choices.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/4/2011 2:44:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 2:36:05 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/3/2011 8:52:53 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Y U NO FREEDOM PPLZ ABOVE.

Although it's clearly illegal, it shouldn't be. 10 year olds do have rights, despite the government's policy of violating them. And that includes the right to shun those who disapproves of, whether or not his disapproval is correct.

The day the government does not require a legal guardian for a 10 year old is the day the 10 year will have the right to make his own choices.

be prepared to be called an ageist, lol.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,215
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4/4/2011 2:50:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 2:44:59 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/4/2011 2:36:05 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 4/3/2011 8:52:53 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Y U NO FREEDOM PPLZ ABOVE.

Although it's clearly illegal, it shouldn't be. 10 year olds do have rights, despite the government's policy of violating them. And that includes the right to shun those who disapproves of, whether or not his disapproval is correct.

The day the government does not require a legal guardian for a 10 year old is the day the 10 year will have the right to make his own choices.

be prepared to be called an ageist, lol.

Be prepared? lol

No really, if a minor defined by law has the right to choose, why have legal Guardian? Why not a legal secretary? :P
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/4/2011 3:03:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 2:02:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 4/3/2011 11:22:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:02:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Um, I never denied the boy rights. I clearly acknowledged that children have rights.

My point was this: "Sure, but he doesn't have legitimate grounds to be dismissed from being taught by a gay teacher. If he is to have rights about his education and make such choices, he should have sound justification for doing so."

meh, how can something be a right if it can be abridged or taken away due to being deemed insufficiently justified according to you?

The gay teachers gayness is not coercing the boy. A justified reason for being dismissed from the class would be if the gay teacher strapped him to chairs with handcuffs, but since the gay teacher is merely teaching, there is no coercion on the teachers part and therefore no liberty is taken away from the boy.

The liberty being taken away is the liberty to refuse education. If he is required to attend education, liberty is being taken away from him. The boy is not coercing the teacher by refusing to be taught by the teacher. Freedom implies not having to justify a noncoercive choice in order to be able to make that choice.

The boy is refusing to share the same room as the gay teacher. This is not a right of freedom and here's why.

What if the boy doesn't want to share the sidewalk with a gay person? What if the boy doesn't want gay people in the grocery store his parents shop at? What if the boy doesn't want to live in a world with gay people? So based on your idea of freedom, the boy has the right to remove all gay people from the Earth because he has the "freedom" to live in a world without gay people?

This applies to you to Freedo and belle.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/4/2011 3:12:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 3:03:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/4/2011 2:02:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 4/3/2011 11:22:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:02:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Um, I never denied the boy rights. I clearly acknowledged that children have rights.

My point was this: "Sure, but he doesn't have legitimate grounds to be dismissed from being taught by a gay teacher. If he is to have rights about his education and make such choices, he should have sound justification for doing so."

meh, how can something be a right if it can be abridged or taken away due to being deemed insufficiently justified according to you?

The gay teachers gayness is not coercing the boy. A justified reason for being dismissed from the class would be if the gay teacher strapped him to chairs with handcuffs, but since the gay teacher is merely teaching, there is no coercion on the teachers part and therefore no liberty is taken away from the boy.

The liberty being taken away is the liberty to refuse education. If he is required to attend education, liberty is being taken away from him. The boy is not coercing the teacher by refusing to be taught by the teacher. Freedom implies not having to justify a noncoercive choice in order to be able to make that choice.

The boy is refusing to share the same room as the gay teacher. This is not a right of freedom and here's why.

What if the boy doesn't want to share the sidewalk with a gay person? What if the boy doesn't want gay people in the grocery store his parents shop at? What if the boy doesn't want to live in a world with gay people? So based on your idea of freedom, the boy has the right to remove all gay people from the Earth because he has the "freedom" to live in a world without gay people?

This applies to you to Freedo and belle.

Well, technically, it is not the boy's room. So he has no right to say who can be there, and who can't. But, one could argue, that he has the right not to be in any place for any reason that he wishes.

If I'm a racist, I have the right to leave a bar if there is a black guy in there. I don't have the right to kick the black guy out.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,215
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4/4/2011 3:17:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 3:12:40 PM, OreEle wrote:

This applies to you to Freedo and belle.

Well, technically, it is not the boy's room. So he has no right to say who can be there, and who can't. But, one could argue, that he has the right not to be in any place for any reason that he wishes.

If I'm a racist, I have the right to leave a bar if there is a black guy in there. I don't have the right to kick the black guy out.

My 15 year old son made the mistake of locking his mom out of "his" room. His room now has no door.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/4/2011 3:20:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Freedo's post is correct. Ragnar just likes to sound radical and contrary which is why he made the point of saying yes the boy should be able to refuse the gay teacher, instead of the succinct point that the boy should be able to refuse ANY teacher. In an ideal world that'd be true I suppose, but in this society (and I think semantics aside we all know what I am referring to), the kid shouldn't get to choose. He wouldn't be able to refuse education from a black person so why a gay person? Meh.
President of DDO
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,215
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4/4/2011 3:28:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 3:20:33 PM, Danielle wrote:
Freedo's post is correct. Ragnar just likes to sound radical and contrary which is why he made the point of saying yes the boy should be able to refuse the gay teacher, instead of the succinct point that the boy should be able to refuse ANY teacher. In an ideal world that'd be true I suppose, but in this society (and I think semantics aside we all know what I am referring to), the kid shouldn't get to choose. He wouldn't be able to refuse education from a black person so why a gay person? Meh.

If you adopted a child and she said she didn't want to go to a particular school, and the alternative was a really bad and unsafe school, would you still assert the child's right to choose as a parent?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/4/2011 3:36:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 3:28:49 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
If you adopted a child and she said she didn't want to go to a particular school, and the alternative was a really bad and unsafe school, would you still assert the child's right to choose as a parent?

I would acknowledge their right to choose their school, but warn them that I also had the right to not buy them anything... so they could choose to take my advice on which school to attend, or they could choose to provide for themselves.
President of DDO
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,215
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4/4/2011 3:36:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 3:36:02 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/4/2011 3:28:49 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
If you adopted a child and she said she didn't want to go to a particular school, and the alternative was a really bad and unsafe school, would you still assert the child's right to choose as a parent?

I would acknowledge their right to choose their school, but warn them that I also had the right to not buy them anything... so they could choose to take my advice on which school to attend, or they could choose to provide for themselves.

Excellent!
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/4/2011 3:42:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 3:12:40 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/4/2011 3:03:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/4/2011 2:02:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 4/3/2011 11:22:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:02:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Um, I never denied the boy rights. I clearly acknowledged that children have rights.

My point was this: "Sure, but he doesn't have legitimate grounds to be dismissed from being taught by a gay teacher. If he is to have rights about his education and make such choices, he should have sound justification for doing so."

meh, how can something be a right if it can be abridged or taken away due to being deemed insufficiently justified according to you?

The gay teachers gayness is not coercing the boy. A justified reason for being dismissed from the class would be if the gay teacher strapped him to chairs with handcuffs, but since the gay teacher is merely teaching, there is no coercion on the teachers part and therefore no liberty is taken away from the boy.

The liberty being taken away is the liberty to refuse education. If he is required to attend education, liberty is being taken away from him. The boy is not coercing the teacher by refusing to be taught by the teacher. Freedom implies not having to justify a noncoercive choice in order to be able to make that choice.

The boy is refusing to share the same room as the gay teacher. This is not a right of freedom and here's why.

What if the boy doesn't want to share the sidewalk with a gay person? What if the boy doesn't want gay people in the grocery store his parents shop at? What if the boy doesn't want to live in a world with gay people? So based on your idea of freedom, the boy has the right to remove all gay people from the Earth because he has the "freedom" to live in a world without gay people?

This applies to you to Freedo and belle.

Well, technically, it is not the boy's room. So he has no right to say who can be there, and who can't. But, one could argue, that he has the right not to be in any place for any reason that he wishes.

Yes, but presuming that the boy does want an education and chooses to be in a classroom, he can't control who's in it. The gay teacher has a right to be in the classroom and teach those who want to be taught.

If I'm a racist, I have the right to leave a bar if there is a black guy in there. I don't have the right to kick the black guy out.

Again, in this situation, the boy doesn't want to leave the "bar" (classroom), he wants to be in the "bar," but wants the "black guy" (teacher) out while he enjoys a "brew" (education).
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ragnar_Rahl
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4/4/2011 3:46:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
\
Again, in this situation, the boy doesn't want to leave the "bar" (classroom), he wants to be in the "bar," but wants the "black guy" (teacher) out while he enjoys a "brew" (education).
That was never implied by the OP as far as I can tell.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Greyparrot
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4/4/2011 3:48:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 3:42:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:


Yes, but presuming that the boy does want an education and chooses to be in a classroom, he can't control who's in it. The gay teacher has a right to be in the classroom and teach those who want to be taught.

If I'm a racist, I have the right to leave a bar if there is a black guy in there. I don't have the right to kick the black guy out.

Again, in this situation, the boy doesn't want to leave the "bar" (classroom), he wants to be in the "bar," but wants the "black guy" (teacher) out while he enjoys a "brew" (education).

I can assure you Geo, that as a teacher, we do NOT have the right to only teach the students that want to be there. I only have the right to remove disruptive students. I have absolutely no right to send a child home just because they say they do not want to be there. I have an obligation to convince those children, they have no obligation to me. That would be the crappiest teacher of the year award for the teacher who chose to only teach children that wanted to be there.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/4/2011 3:55:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 3:42:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/4/2011 3:12:40 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/4/2011 3:03:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/4/2011 2:02:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 4/3/2011 11:22:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:02:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 4/3/2011 9:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Um, I never denied the boy rights. I clearly acknowledged that children have rights.

My point was this: "Sure, but he doesn't have legitimate grounds to be dismissed from being taught by a gay teacher. If he is to have rights about his education and make such choices, he should have sound justification for doing so."

meh, how can something be a right if it can be abridged or taken away due to being deemed insufficiently justified according to you?

The gay teachers gayness is not coercing the boy. A justified reason for being dismissed from the class would be if the gay teacher strapped him to chairs with handcuffs, but since the gay teacher is merely teaching, there is no coercion on the teachers part and therefore no liberty is taken away from the boy.

The liberty being taken away is the liberty to refuse education. If he is required to attend education, liberty is being taken away from him. The boy is not coercing the teacher by refusing to be taught by the teacher. Freedom implies not having to justify a noncoercive choice in order to be able to make that choice.

The boy is refusing to share the same room as the gay teacher. This is not a right of freedom and here's why.

What if the boy doesn't want to share the sidewalk with a gay person? What if the boy doesn't want gay people in the grocery store his parents shop at? What if the boy doesn't want to live in a world with gay people? So based on your idea of freedom, the boy has the right to remove all gay people from the Earth because he has the "freedom" to live in a world without gay people?

This applies to you to Freedo and belle.

Well, technically, it is not the boy's room. So he has no right to say who can be there, and who can't. But, one could argue, that he has the right not to be in any place for any reason that he wishes.

Yes, but presuming that the boy does want an education and chooses to be in a classroom, he can't control who's in it. The gay teacher has a right to be in the classroom and teach those who want to be taught.

If I'm a racist, I have the right to leave a bar if there is a black guy in there. I don't have the right to kick the black guy out.

Again, in this situation, the boy doesn't want to leave the "bar" (classroom), he wants to be in the "bar," but wants the "black guy" (teacher) out while he enjoys a "brew" (education).

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Does the boy want the teacher gone? Or does the boy just wish to be in a different classroom that does not have a gay teacher?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/4/2011 4:30:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
^^^^

I think it's the same thing. Wanting the teacher out of his classroom is the same as wanting to be in a classroom without him.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
racist
Posts: 190
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4/4/2011 4:44:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 3:55:08 PM, OreEle wrote:


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Does the boy want the teacher gone? Or does the boy just wish to be in a different classroom that does not have a gay teacher?

The kid simply wants to be in a classroom minus any gay teacher.