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Project DESERTEC

Fabian_CH
Posts: 232
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6/13/2011 9:24:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
For Geography class I've had to prepare a lesson with two girls from my class on the DESERTEC project. I don't know if you're acquainted with it, but the basic idea is to build a system of solar and wind energy plants in and around the Sahara desert in Northern Africa, with which to provide Europe and Northen Africa with sufficient energy.

http://www.desertec.org...

My opinion of it is not very high... What it sounds like to me: rob 400 billion Euros (at least) from Europeans, with which to rob significant chunks of property from Northern Africans, in order to build inefficient energy plants (for if they weren't, why would they need to be subsidized...) in states that have had a long history of nationalizing Wesern property. And somehow, this is a genius solution to the "energy crisis". Sounds like a recipe for disaster if there ever was one to me.
"What are we doing? Do we want to feed a starved humanity in order to let it live? Or do we want to strangle its life in order to feed it?"
- Andrei Taganov, We The Living (Ayn Rand)
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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6/13/2011 10:10:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/13/2011 9:24:24 AM, Fabian_CH wrote:
For Geography class I've had to prepare a lesson with two girls from my class on the DESERTEC project

Make sure you take advantage of opportunities to sleep with them while you're conducting your research.

I don't know if you're acquainted with it, but the basic idea is to build a system of solar and wind energy plants in and around the Sahara desert in Northern Africa, with which to provide Europe and Northen Africa with sufficient energy.

http://www.desertec.org...


My opinion of it is not very high... What it sounds like to me: rob 400 billion Euros (at least) from Europeans, with which to rob significant chunks of property from Northern Africans, in order to build inefficient energy plants (for if they weren't, why would they need to be subsidized...) in states that have had a long history of nationalizing Wesern property. And somehow, this is a genius solution to the "energy crisis". Sounds like a recipe for disaster if there ever was one to me.

I think the idea, my boy, is to take into account future costs and not just present ones. A green energy infrastructure saves a lot in terms of pollution and energy independence, as well as cultural stimulation in sustainability and preservation (no doubt the answer your liberal-minded professors will be expecting at the end of your project). Now we can discuss start-up costs and how long it will take to repay the investment, but keep in mind that countries tend to be around for a long time and using a standard time-line based on a common business is not practical.
kfc
Fabian_CH
Posts: 232
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6/13/2011 10:23:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/13/2011 10:10:13 AM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
I think the idea, my boy, is to take into account future costs and not just present ones. A green energy infrastructure saves a lot in terms of pollution and energy independence, as well as cultural stimulation in sustainability and preservation (no doubt the answer your liberal-minded professors will be expecting at the end of your project). Now we can discuss start-up costs and how long it will take to repay the investment, but keep in mind that countries tend to be around for a long time and using a standard time-line based on a common business is not practical.
"Energy independence" is not exactly a attribute I would apply to a project like Desertec.

One argument by the speaker of this project that we came across seemed particularly backhanded; he was asked to comment on the cost (400 Billion is what they're saying). His answer was: well, seeing how this project takes 40 years to complete (!), that makes just 10 billions per year. That's what we spend on energy anyway. Uh, right, you mean to say that you want to spend twice that much or what?

Anyway, this is just another example of governments robbing people blind for the interests of some corrupt businesses, in the name of some "good cause". If there really was an energy crisis, government would be the last that would need to be concerned. Private business would jump all over the better solutions.
"What are we doing? Do we want to feed a starved humanity in order to let it live? Or do we want to strangle its life in order to feed it?"
- Andrei Taganov, We The Living (Ayn Rand)
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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6/13/2011 12:19:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
And this is why they should invest in an orbital solar collector, it is far more efficient and it can act as a gateway towards interplanetary exploration [especially considering we would have to send vessels to the asteroid belt to get many of the necessary materials to complete its construction].
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Fabian_CH
Posts: 232
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6/13/2011 12:28:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/13/2011 12:19:17 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
And this is why they should invest in an orbital solar collector, it is far more efficient and it can act as a gateway towards interplanetary exploration [especially considering we would have to send vessels to the asteroid belt to get many of the necessary materials to complete its construction].
Why, instead of arguing about what specific kind of science fiction we should all be forced to support, can we not just simply leave it up to self-interested individuals to find the most efficient way of creating energy that wastes the least of our property? Pay you have to, anyway. 400 Billion ain't nothing, and might just be more than you'd ever pay to a private energy supplier with legalized competition...
"What are we doing? Do we want to feed a starved humanity in order to let it live? Or do we want to strangle its life in order to feed it?"
- Andrei Taganov, We The Living (Ayn Rand)
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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6/13/2011 12:34:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/13/2011 12:28:10 PM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 6/13/2011 12:19:17 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
And this is why they should invest in an orbital solar collector, it is far more efficient and it can act as a gateway towards interplanetary exploration [especially considering we would have to send vessels to the asteroid belt to get many of the necessary materials to complete its construction].
Why, instead of arguing about what specific kind of science fiction we should all be forced to support, can we not just simply leave it up to self-interested individuals to find the most efficient way of creating energy that wastes the least of our property? Pay you have to, anyway. 400 Billion ain't nothing, and might just be more than you'd ever pay to a private energy supplier with legalized competition...

Many companies want to do this unfortunately most countries have barred private spaceflight which leaves them permanently stuck in the R&D department rather than the construction of spacecraft and other such facilities [which includes orbital solar facilities] and don't refer to orbital solar as science fiction for we have proven it time and time again that it is possible [see basically every modern satellite], hell even Japan is investing in it. http://www.popsci.com...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Fabian_CH
Posts: 232
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6/13/2011 12:37:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/13/2011 12:34:03 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 6/13/2011 12:28:10 PM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 6/13/2011 12:19:17 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
And this is why they should invest in an orbital solar collector, it is far more efficient and it can act as a gateway towards interplanetary exploration [especially considering we would have to send vessels to the asteroid belt to get many of the necessary materials to complete its construction].
Why, instead of arguing about what specific kind of science fiction we should all be forced to support, can we not just simply leave it up to self-interested individuals to find the most efficient way of creating energy that wastes the least of our property? Pay you have to, anyway. 400 Billion ain't nothing, and might just be more than you'd ever pay to a private energy supplier with legalized competition...

Many companies want to do this unfortunately most countries have barred private spaceflight which leaves them permanently stuck in the R&D department rather than the construction of spacecraft and other such facilities [which includes orbital solar facilities] and don't refer to orbital solar as science fiction for we have proven it time and time again that it is possible [see basically every modern satellite], hell even Japan is investing in it. http://www.popsci.com...

There you go. The problem isn't the companies, the problem is governmental stupidity.
"What are we doing? Do we want to feed a starved humanity in order to let it live? Or do we want to strangle its life in order to feed it?"
- Andrei Taganov, We The Living (Ayn Rand)
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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6/13/2011 12:42:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/13/2011 12:37:38 PM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 6/13/2011 12:34:03 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 6/13/2011 12:28:10 PM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 6/13/2011 12:19:17 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
And this is why they should invest in an orbital solar collector, it is far more efficient and it can act as a gateway towards interplanetary exploration [especially considering we would have to send vessels to the asteroid belt to get many of the necessary materials to complete its construction].
Why, instead of arguing about what specific kind of science fiction we should all be forced to support, can we not just simply leave it up to self-interested individuals to find the most efficient way of creating energy that wastes the least of our property? Pay you have to, anyway. 400 Billion ain't nothing, and might just be more than you'd ever pay to a private energy supplier with legalized competition...

Many companies want to do this unfortunately most countries have barred private spaceflight which leaves them permanently stuck in the R&D department rather than the construction of spacecraft and other such facilities [which includes orbital solar facilities] and don't refer to orbital solar as science fiction for we have proven it time and time again that it is possible [see basically every modern satellite], hell even Japan is investing in it. http://www.popsci.com...

There you go. The problem isn't the companies, the problem is governmental stupidity.

That's what I have been saying the entire time, but this is more of the result of corrupt politicians who wish to keep their own personal corporate assets in control [such as the oil companies paying off government officials to bar the production of alternate fuels and the mass use of nuclear power as well as orbital solar].
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.