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Sexual Equality thread #34a

Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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6/22/2011 10:21:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So I recently proposed to my girlfriend (she told me to cut my hair and lose 20 pounds, and if she ever starts becoming attracted to internet nerds then she'll reconsider) and I forgot to ask her father first. BIG MISTAKE. It got me thinking about the whole social norm surrounding this tradition of asking the father's permission before courting his daughter... Is it a good example to show sexual inequality?

I would say it is, and not just to use this as an opportunity to whine, mind you... After all, women don't ask the male's father before marrying them, and even then, what about the mother?

It seems to me that a father is seen as the keeper of property in this case - that property obviously being the daughter. Although this is usually done out of "respect," and the persons involved are believing themselves to be acting honorably, I would say that the type of people who would engage in this archaic behavior are the same that would consider women to be better off left at home and unemployed, unable to wield decision-making power in the home, etc. They are probably the sort that would "never hit a woman" out of "respect," but would have no problem verbally abusing them instead or else just flat-out attributing them lower social status. Thoughts? Personal experience with this? Lotto numbers?
kfc
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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6/22/2011 11:04:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Congratulations, Rob.

I agree, it is archaic, and it is about a woman being a man's property her entire life (passing her from father to husband). However, it is a tradition in my family that I actually don't mind upholding, and let's just say my parents' families have some effed up traditions lol. The reason I would like my husband to "ask", not my father, but my parents, for my hand in marriage is, as you said, because of respect. And I'd rather not have it the other way around, where he asks me first, then I tell them of the news, and they dampen my spirits. I'd rather have them fully on board before he asks me.

That being said, it's ultimately my choice.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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6/22/2011 11:14:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think it's dumb.

For the parents who actually care about this archaic tradition, I'd say do what my stepdad did: he asked my mom first, and then asked my grandfather as a gesture (even though my mom had already said yes). My grandfather didn't know that of course. It probably made my grandfather respect him more even though his approval was technically insignificant. People are attached to tradition for emotional reasons, and sometimes it's just easier to appease them. I'm learning to pick my battles ;)
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brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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6/22/2011 11:54:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Congratulations Rob!

Though as a man who has been married myself, the following quote from Samual Pepys comes to mind:

Saw a wedding in the church. It was strange to see what delight we married people have to see these poor fools decoyed into our condition.
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brian_eggleston
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6/22/2011 11:58:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I asked my father-in-law for permission to marry his daughter but it wasn't straightforward as he doesn't speak English and I don't speak much of his language, so my bride-to-be had to be there to translate!
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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6/22/2011 12:03:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think parent's shouldn't retain any governance over the affairs over their children, but some people really care about tradition. It's best to postpone conflicts with the in-laws.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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6/22/2011 12:47:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 11:14:55 AM, Danielle wrote:
Oh and yes congratulations. Enjoy your heterosexual privilege ;)

Thanks... did you know that your SB 42 hero Tyree is now publicly attacking NY's same-sex marriage law, BTW?
kfc
Rob1_Billion
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6/22/2011 12:49:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 12:03:45 PM, wjmelements wrote:
I think parent's shouldn't retain any governance over the affairs over their children, but some people really care about tradition. It's best to postpone conflicts with the in-laws.

"postpone?"

I called him up afterward and told him that I understand it's the traditional thing to do, and he said "it's not necessarily the tradional thing to do, it's the respectable thing to do."
kfc
Rob1_Billion
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6/22/2011 12:53:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 11:04:56 AM, nonentity wrote:
Congratulations, Rob.

Thank you.

I agree, it is archaic, and it is about a woman being a man's property her entire life (passing her from father to husband). However, it is a tradition in my family that I actually don't mind upholding...

Well that's the screwed up part... we can agree that it's a twisted ideal (women=property), but because it is tradition we can let it go anyway, since it has a romantic appeal due to the humility of the groom-to-be. And because it's tradition, it means that I disrespected her father by not asking him. So I was disrespectful by not treating his daughter like property...
kfc
dobby
Posts: 43
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6/22/2011 12:55:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
it is respect. if someone wants to marry my little girl they better have the balls to ask me. anyone that cant do that isnt worthy of anyone.
Rob1_Billion
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6/22/2011 1:02:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 11:54:56 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Congratulations Rob!

Why thanks!

Though as a man who has been married myself, the following quote from Samual Pepys comes to mind:

Saw a wedding in the church. It was strange to see what delight we married people have to see these poor fools decoyed into our condition.

I can't wait to be part of your unfortunate crowd.

I asked my father-in-law for permission to marry his daughter but it wasn't straightforward as he doesn't speak English and I don't speak much of his language, so my bride-to-be had to be there to translate!

That must have been awkward. Although the women are like property, they still enjoy it because they like the trial of the man being put on the spot like that. It gives them the feeling that we are making a sacrifice for them.

I saw this excellent documentary in sociology class a few years back, about this matriarchal Chinese village out in the middle of nowhere. The women do absolutely everything, and the men just sit around and do nothing. The men 'date' outside of their little tribes, and are required to make a glorious journey to see their women. The cameraman followed this one guy around who made the journey... the village his woman was in was actually not far away, but he kept walking in circles and back-tracking to make it seem like it was a very difficult trek, before arriving and finally courting her. It was hilarious. It seems that there is some ingrained necessity for men to go through hell for their women no matter what side of the globe we're in, even in a matriarchal society.
kfc
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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6/22/2011 1:17:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You've got to keep in mind that, although my future fiance is expected to "ask" my parents to marry me, the same would be expected of my brother. Out of respect, he would be expected to tell my parents he plans to marry a girl.

It all depends on how much of a role your family is expected to play in your life. It's a very North American and western view that you're looking at this from. Where individuality = good, and filial piety = bad.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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6/22/2011 1:21:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 12:47:51 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 6/22/2011 11:14:55 AM, Danielle wrote:
Oh and yes congratulations. Enjoy your heterosexual privilege ;)

Thanks... did you know that your SB 42 hero Tyree is now publicly attacking NY's same-sex marriage law, BTW?

He's ignorant and he's Christian, which has proven to be a lethal combination. He can think whatever he wants, but his views are clearly absurd (I just read his comments lol how embarrassing for him).
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Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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6/22/2011 1:54:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 1:17:02 PM, nonentity wrote:
You've got to keep in mind that, although my future fiance is expected to "ask" my parents to marry me, the same would be expected of my brother. Out of respect, he would be expected to tell my parents he plans to marry a girl.

It all depends on how much of a role your family is expected to play in your life. It's a very North American and western view that you're looking at this from. Where individuality = good, and filial piety = bad.

... and you have no such responsibility? Responsibility = privilege.
kfc
Rob1_Billion
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6/22/2011 1:56:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 12:55:05 PM, dobby wrote:
it is respect. if someone wants to marry my little girl they better have the balls to ask me. anyone that cant do that isnt worthy of anyone.

What about if a woman wanted to marry your little boy? Does she need to have the balls to ask you? If you say "no," then you've got to be able to defend the sexual bias you are showing here.
kfc
nonentity
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6/22/2011 1:58:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 1:54:43 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 6/22/2011 1:17:02 PM, nonentity wrote:
You've got to keep in mind that, although my future fiance is expected to "ask" my parents to marry me, the same would be expected of my brother. Out of respect, he would be expected to tell my parents he plans to marry a girl.

It all depends on how much of a role your family is expected to play in your life. It's a very North American and western view that you're looking at this from. Where individuality = good, and filial piety = bad.

... and you have no such responsibility? Responsibility = privilege.

That's true.
dobby
Posts: 43
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6/22/2011 2:06:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 1:56:37 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 6/22/2011 12:55:05 PM, dobby wrote:
it is respect. if someone wants to marry my little girl they better have the balls to ask me. anyone that cant do that isnt worthy of anyone.

What about if a woman wanted to marry your little boy? Does she need to have the balls to ask you? If you say "no," then you've got to be able to defend the sexual bias you are showing here.

its not my sexual bais that she doesn't have balls. that is nature. deal with it.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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6/22/2011 2:09:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 12:49:48 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 6/22/2011 12:03:45 PM, wjmelements wrote:
I think parent's shouldn't retain any governance over the affairs over their children, but some people really care about tradition. It's best to postpone conflicts with the in-laws.
"postpone?"

From what I've heard, conflicts with the in-laws are inevitable.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/22/2011 2:45:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 2:38:03 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 6/22/2011 2:00:56 PM, el-badgero wrote:
is she sexy rob?

http://i201.photobucket.com...

My best man is on the left, the guy on the right is his older brother.

Is that scarborough beach?
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el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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6/22/2011 2:51:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
anyone to do a good job cutting rob and his buddies outa that pic that i might have a wank to it?

tell her i'm available to strip if she's having a hen party will you rob? ..and that she'd have to pay for flights herself.. but i'll pm you an ole nude shot to seal the deal..

congrats, bud! ;)
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
el-badgero
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6/22/2011 2:52:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 2:51:02 PM, el-badgero wrote:
anyone to do a good job cutting rob and his buddies outa that pic that i might have a wank to it?

just a badger's head on rob would nearly do the trick...?

tell her i'm available to strip if she's having a hen party will you rob? ..and that she'd have to pay for flights herself.. but i'll pm you an ole nude shot to seal the deal..

congrats, bud! ;)
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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6/22/2011 4:47:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 4:43:27 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 6/22/2011 4:36:33 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
I forgot you looked like Jesus.

Jesus probably looked like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org...

Nah, Jesus would have had a mohawk and shades.
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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6/22/2011 6:47:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 2:45:18 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/22/2011 2:38:03 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 6/22/2011 2:00:56 PM, el-badgero wrote:
is she sexy rob?

http://i201.photobucket.com...

My best man is on the left, the guy on the right is his older brother.

Is that scarborough beach?

Yeah I think so, actually.
kfc
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,267
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6/24/2011 12:11:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/22/2011 6:47:46 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 6/22/2011 2:45:18 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 6/22/2011 2:38:03 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 6/22/2011 2:00:56 PM, el-badgero wrote:
is she sexy rob?

http://i201.photobucket.com...

My best man is on the left, the guy on the right is his older brother.

Is that scarborough beach?

Yeah I think so, actually.

Daaaamm. I look just the guy on the left... moobs and all!