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Justin_Chains
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6/28/2011 6:45:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Right now, most of the world is based on a pyramid social structure. A holographic social structure is or should be the next stage of social evolution in the human race.

The holographic social structure is a social structure that spreads power evenly and can fix any weakness within the system swiftly. Teaching people self sufficiency would be the number one focus. If every single person and every single community had self sufficiency as their goal then it would create a nation which is economically strong unlike anything that we have seen in recent history. Sure, trade if you want, but never DEPEND on another community or another nation for your survival or economic stability. Even down to the single person, never depend on another for your survival. Always have the ability to be self sufficient if the situation calls for it. That is a holographic structure. It is a far more advanced social structure than the pyramid social structure.

It's time to evolve. It's time to change. It's time for a new nation.

My points should prove themselves worthy of consideration.

The government should be nothing more than a collective order of a shared vision. Individual people with a shared vision forming a family, families with a shared vision forming intentional communities, intentional communities with a shared vision forming a nation. All being self sufficient and all helping each other throughout the structure to fix any weaknesses as they arise.

This is a holographic social structure. It is a structure of true strength and efficiency.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/28/2011 8:04:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 6:45:49 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
Right now, most of the world is based on a pyramid social structure. A holographic social structure is or should be the next stage of social evolution in the human race.

Saying "X should happen" isn't an argument.

The holographic social structure is a social structure that spreads power evenly and can fix any weakness within the system swiftly.

You can't spread power evenly unless you make everyone exactly the same in every single respect, and keep it that way. Some people being more intelligent than others is power inequality. Some people being more attractive is power inequality. Systems of reputation result in power inequality.

Teaching people self sufficiency would be the number one focus. If every single person and every single community had self sufficiency as their goal then it would create a nation which is economically strong unlike anything that we have seen in recent history.

You can't base social theory on a statement like "If everyone were this way." You're just waving a magic wand for human behavior in the way that typical statists wave it for states to act perfectly. Plus, since you're not weaving actual economics into your theory, all you're doing is saying "If people want to be self-sufficient, the nation will be economically strong", which goes back to Sieben's explanation of the Green Lantern Theory (where great things happen just due to sheer willpower).

Sure, trade if you want, but never DEPEND on another community or another nation for your survival or economic stability.

People only trade to better their condition, which means that they wouldn't have been able to otherwise get what they wanted. I depend on bookstores to have books that I want, I depend on stores to have all the necessities when I go in to shop, and I depend on engineers and architects to build my house. Trying to say that people should trade without dependency assumes everyone should try to have absolute advantage in everything, which totally ignores the whole concept of opportunity costs and comparative advantage.

Even down to the single person, never depend on another for your survival. Always have the ability to be self sufficient if the situation calls for it. That is a holographic structure. It is a far more advanced social structure than the pyramid social structure.

An AnCap society integrates that. That's why social programs don't exist and economies are based on people trading to better their condition.

The government should be nothing more than a collective order of a shared vision.

Why should there be a government?

Plus, your theory of government is basically watered-down democracy, inasmuch as you're basically advocating we should have a government that represents the "public interest". Problem is, this goes back to Magic Wand Theory, where you're basically just saying "Government should be/do X" as if it will organize however you wish.

Individual people with a shared vision forming a family, families with a shared vision forming intentional communities, intentional communities with a shared vision forming a nation. All being self sufficient and all helping each other throughout the structure to fix any weaknesses as they arise.

Sounds like Aristotle's theory of the state.

This is a holographic social structure. It is a structure of true strength and efficiency.

Not really. You haven't demonstrated "strength", and you're blatantly contradicting "efficiency" by ignoring the economics.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/28/2011 8:20:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 8:04:09 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 6/28/2011 6:45:49 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
Right now, most of the world is based on a pyramid social structure. A holographic social structure is or should be the next stage of social evolution in the human race.

Saying "X should happen" isn't an argument.

The holographic social structure is a social structure that spreads power evenly and can fix any weakness within the system swiftly.

You can't spread power evenly unless you make everyone exactly the same in every single respect, and keep it that way. Some people being more intelligent than others is power inequality. Some people being more attractive is power inequality. Systems of reputation result in power inequality.

Teaching people self sufficiency would be the number one focus. If every single person and every single community had self sufficiency as their goal then it would create a nation which is economically strong unlike anything that we have seen in recent history.

You can't base social theory on a statement like "If everyone were this way." You're just waving a magic wand for human behavior in the way that typical statists wave it for states to act perfectly. Plus, since you're not weaving actual economics into your theory, all you're doing is saying "If people want to be self-sufficient, the nation will be economically strong", which goes back to Sieben's explanation of the Green Lantern Theory (where great things happen just due to sheer willpower).

Sure, trade if you want, but never DEPEND on another community or another nation for your survival or economic stability.

People only trade to better their condition, which means that they wouldn't have been able to otherwise get what they wanted. I depend on bookstores to have books that I want, I depend on stores to have all the necessities when I go in to shop, and I depend on engineers and architects to build my house. Trying to say that people should trade without dependency assumes everyone should try to have absolute advantage in everything, which totally ignores the whole concept of opportunity costs and comparative advantage.

Even down to the single person, never depend on another for your survival. Always have the ability to be self sufficient if the situation calls for it. That is a holographic structure. It is a far more advanced social structure than the pyramid social structure.

An AnCap society integrates that. That's why social programs don't exist and economies are based on people trading to better their condition.

The government should be nothing more than a collective order of a shared vision.

Why should there be a government?

Plus, your theory of government is basically watered-down democracy, inasmuch as you're basically advocating we should have a government that represents the "public interest". Problem is, this goes back to Magic Wand Theory, where you're basically just saying "Government should be/do X" as if it will organize however you wish.

Individual people with a shared vision forming a family, families with a shared vision forming intentional communities, intentional communities with a shared vision forming a nation. All being self sufficient and all helping each other throughout the structure to fix any weaknesses as they arise.

Sounds like Aristotle's theory of the state.

This is a holographic social structure. It is a structure of true strength and efficiency.

Not really. You haven't demonstrated "strength", and you're blatantly contradicting "efficiency" by ignoring the economics.

You have a lot to learn Cody. I'm not going to keep bickering back and forth with you. You fail to apply logic to even the most basic of social concepts with your AnCap society. It is weak and it will never happen. Structure will always be formed out of anarchy. Order will always come out of chaos. Learning efficient structure would be a much wiser goal than pushing AnCap. AnCap is inefficient. All of your arguments against my statement fall flat in the face of logic and all of your questions were already answered. I'm not playing into your word wizardry this time. Your banter is a waste of both of our time.

You make false comparisons and false assumptions. Your words hold no weight and therefor this specific conversation has little value. Your argument is one similar to a child throwing a mental hissy fit.

Also, self sufficiency is the strongest form of economy that there ever can be. Show me where the holographic structure fails.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/28/2011 8:43:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.worldtrans.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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6/28/2011 8:44:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Self-sufficiency is inefficient because it doesn't make use of comparative advantage, division of labor, and economies of scale, three concepts that make economies that involve trade greatly surpass those that try to avert it.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/28/2011 9:03:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 8:44:58 PM, mongeese wrote:
Self-sufficiency is inefficient because it doesn't make use of comparative advantage, division of labor, and economies of scale, three concepts that make economies that involve trade greatly surpass those that try to avert it.

I would have to say that is an epic fail. Trade should only come from a basis to fills needs of desire, bot needs of survival. When it comes to economic survival self sufficiency cannot be beat. I will pit my concept versus your concept any day, in the arena of survival. Trade should only be established after self sufficiency has been established. This is the truth of solid economics. What you are promoting is just tidbits of capitalism. Capitalism is a failed economic concept. It is not efficient and it will never be successfully sustainable.

Self sufficiency doesn't need comparative advantage or economics of scale, and division of labor doesn't really conflict with the holographic structure. As long as every person is taught how to be self sufficient... division of labor is just a case of desire, not survival. Self sufficiency needs nothing, because it is self sufficient. There can be no stronger economic structure.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/28/2011 9:07:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 8:43:43 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
http://www.worldtrans.org...

That is even better than what I've been learning. It's a holographic pyramid structure! I guess blending the two concepts is really what I was explaining after all.

Thanks Geo. That link just revolutionized my mind.
Grape
Posts: 989
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6/28/2011 9:12:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 6:45:49 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
Right now, most of the world is based on a pyramid social structure. A holographic social structure is or should be the next stage of social evolution in the human race.


Why will a holographic social structure evolve from our current social order?

The holographic social structure is a social structure that spreads power evenly and can fix any weakness within the system swiftly.

Power is not naturally spread equally because not all people and places are the same. How will power be redistributed? How will this system enable us to quickly fix any weakness?

Teaching people self sufficiency would be the number one focus.

How do you teach people self-sufficiency? That seems contradictory because if people rely on someone to teach them how to be self-sufficient they are not self-sufficient.

If every single person and every single community had self sufficiency as their goal then it would create a nation which is economically strong unlike anything that we have seen in recent history.

What do you mean by economically strong? Economic strength is usually determined by the fulfillment of people's preferences. How would self-sufficiency fulfill people's preferences?

Sure, trade if you want, but never DEPEND on another community or another nation for your survival or economic stability. Even down to the single person, never depend on another for your survival. Always have the ability to be self sufficient if the situation calls for it. That is a holographic structure. It is a far more advanced social structure than the pyramid social structure.


This is had prehistoric civilizations were like. The reason they were prehistoric is because barely anyone could read or write since they spent all their time farming. Why is it advantageous for us to spend our time and things like farming when not everyone is equally skilled at or interested in farming? Division of labor allowed for civilization because it is easier and more efficient for Sieben to engineer and buy his chicken from Koopin than for him to try to engineer and farm animals.

It's time to evolve. It's time to change. It's time for a new nation.


Okay?

My points should prove themselves worthy of consideration.


I am considering them, but I don't think this is a very good idea.

The government should be nothing more than a collective order of a shared vision. Individual people with a shared vision forming a family, families with a shared vision forming intentional communities, intentional communities with a shared vision forming a nation. All being self sufficient and all helping each other throughout the structure to fix any weaknesses as they arise.


How are they self-sufficient and a collective? What does this mean? Empirical examples tend to show that self-sufficient communities are generally focused on subsistence and don't engage in much trade. Why would we want to regress to a reduced standard of living?

This is a holographic social structure. It is a structure of true strength and efficiency.

Okay?
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/28/2011 9:12:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I propose that now in society there are diseases and death

I say we all strive towards a society with no diseases and immortality where everyone is happy
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/28/2011 9:19:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:12:29 PM, Grape wrote:
At 6/28/2011 6:45:49 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
Right now, most of the world is based on a pyramid social structure. A holographic social structure is or should be the next stage of social evolution in the human race.


Why will a holographic social structure evolve from our current social order?

The holographic social structure is a social structure that spreads power evenly and can fix any weakness within the system swiftly.

Power is not naturally spread equally because not all people and places are the same. How will power be redistributed? How will this system enable us to quickly fix any weakness?

Teaching people self sufficiency would be the number one focus.

How do you teach people self-sufficiency? That seems contradictory because if people rely on someone to teach them how to be self-sufficient they are not self-sufficient.

If every single person and every single community had self sufficiency as their goal then it would create a nation which is economically strong unlike anything that we have seen in recent history.

What do you mean by economically strong? Economic strength is usually determined by the fulfillment of people's preferences. How would self-sufficiency fulfill people's preferences?

Sure, trade if you want, but never DEPEND on another community or another nation for your survival or economic stability. Even down to the single person, never depend on another for your survival. Always have the ability to be self sufficient if the situation calls for it. That is a holographic structure. It is a far more advanced social structure than the pyramid social structure.


This is had prehistoric civilizations were like. The reason they were prehistoric is because barely anyone could read or write since they spent all their time farming. Why is it advantageous for us to spend our time and things like farming when not everyone is equally skilled at or interested in farming? Division of labor allowed for civilization because it is easier and more efficient for Sieben to engineer and buy his chicken from Koopin than for him to try to engineer and farm animals.

It's time to evolve. It's time to change. It's time for a new nation.


Okay?

My points should prove themselves worthy of consideration.


I am considering them, but I don't think this is a very good idea.

The government should be nothing more than a collective order of a shared vision. Individual people with a shared vision forming a family, families with a shared vision forming intentional communities, intentional communities with a shared vision forming a nation. All being self sufficient and all helping each other throughout the structure to fix any weaknesses as they arise.


How are they self-sufficient and a collective? What does this mean? Empirical examples tend to show that self-sufficient communities are generally focused on subsistence and don't engage in much trade. Why would we want to regress to a reduced standard of living?

This is a holographic social structure. It is a structure of true strength and efficiency.

Okay?

If you can't comprehend self sufficiency because it can be taught.. Then I don't think I even need to answer anything else. Your brain obviously has very limited potential towards thinking in such ways. Wanna start with this simple concept?

Everything is taught in order to be learned. You either teach yourself or other's help you. Becoming self sufficient towards survival is no different. Once you learn it, it is learned and you are self sufficient. Understand now? Once you can comprehend that, then we will move on.
Grape
Posts: 989
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6/28/2011 9:22:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 8:20:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

You have a lot to learn Cody. I'm not going to keep bickering back and forth with you. You fail to apply logic to even the most basic of social concepts with your AnCap society.

Where does he fail to apply logic? Logic is the formal use of a system of inference and reasoning. How does Cody's response not use logic correctly?

It is weak and it will never happen.

What does it mean for a society to be weak? That doesn't describe anything. Why is your social structure more likely to emerge than Cody's?

Structure will always be formed out of anarchy. Order will always come out of chaos. Learning efficient structure would be a much wiser goal than pushing AnCap. AnCap is inefficient.

An AnCap society would be highly structured. An interconnected society based on trade would be far more efficient than one based on self-sufficiency (unless you can refute economic principles like economies of scale and the law of comparative advantage).

All of your arguments against my statement fall flat in the face of logic and all of your questions were already answered. I'm not playing into your word wizardry this time. Your banter is a waste of both of our time.


You have no actually answered anything. I assume the phrase "word wizardry" is code for the fact that you don't understand Cody's terms because you have no actual understanding of political science, economics, sociology, or psychology and you're just making things up as you go along.

You make false comparisons and false assumptions.

You have not shown this. You're just giving your opinion about Cody's argument. That's not useful to anyone; you need analysis.

Your words hold no weight and therefor this specific conversation has little value. Your argument is one similar to a child throwing a mental hissy fit.


I don't even know how you can hold this opinion. Cody is continuing to give thoughtful responses to you even though other people don't take you seriously. You are rude to him as a result even though he is treating you with more respect than anyone else. I think you should be more polite to Cody and take his responses seriously instead of expecting everyone to agree with you. Maybe you will realize that you might be wrong about some things too.

Also, self sufficiency is the strongest form of economy that there ever can be. Show me where the holographic structure fails.

Cody tried to suggest problems with the holographic structure and you just ignored him.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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6/28/2011 9:26:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:03:16 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/28/2011 8:44:58 PM, mongeese wrote:
Self-sufficiency is inefficient because it doesn't make use of comparative advantage, division of labor, and economies of scale, three concepts that make economies that involve trade greatly surpass those that try to avert it.

I would have to say that is an epic fail. Trade should only come from a basis to fills needs of desire, bot needs of survival. When it comes to economic survival self sufficiency cannot be beat.

Sure, I could learn how to farm and hunt my own food, but survival-wise, I'm more likely to die trying to feed myself independently than dying because everybody who I used to rely on is out of business.

I will pit my concept versus your concept any day, in the arena of survival.

What?

Trade should only be established after self sufficiency has been established. This is the truth of solid economics.

I don't think I've ever heard a single economist agree with you. There's also the problem that economics only analyzes what will happen in the interactions of multiple people, not what should happen.

What you are promoting is just tidbits of capitalism. Capitalism is a failed economic concept. It is not efficient and it will never be successfully sustainable.

It sustained itself at the dawn of humanity. It has sustained itself until now. I don't forsee it collapsing anytime soon. Why would it collapse, anyway?

Self sufficiency doesn't need comparative advantage or economics of scale, and division of labor doesn't really conflict with the holographic structure. As long as every person is taught how to be self sufficient... division of labor is just a case of desire, not survival.

Even in a military combat unit, where survival is extremely important, there's usually just one medic, instead of everybody carrying around medicine kits. This is the division of labor.

Self sufficiency needs nothing, because it is self sufficient. There can be no stronger economic structure.

Except one where you aren't risking your life in the name of survival. :p
Grape
Posts: 989
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6/28/2011 9:26:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:03:16 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/28/2011 8:44:58 PM, mongeese wrote:
Self-sufficiency is inefficient because it doesn't make use of comparative advantage, division of labor, and economies of scale, three concepts that make economies that involve trade greatly surpass those that try to avert it.

I would have to say that is an epic fail. Trade should only come from a basis to fills needs of desire, bot needs of survival. When it comes to economic survival self sufficiency cannot be beat. I will pit my concept versus your concept any day, in the arena of survival. Trade should only be established after self sufficiency has been established. This is the truth of solid economics. What you are promoting is just tidbits of capitalism. Capitalism is a failed economic concept. It is not efficient and it will never be successfully sustainable.


Okay, challenge me to a debate. I think it is reasonable to divide up labor in everything, including areas that are necessary for survival. It is not effective for everyone to farm because people who are better at other things, incapable of farming, or who hate farming would be better off if they did not have to farm. That is most of us. The people who do farm can produce enough food for everyone, and we can trade for it. Everyone is happier, uses their time more efficiently, and produces more.

Self sufficiency doesn't need comparative advantage or economics of scale, and division of labor doesn't really conflict with the holographic structure.

Actually, comparative advantage and economies of scale work in agriculture. If I start a farm in my yard it will not be competitive with big business farms because of economies of scale. It also isn't effective for me to do that because other people are better than me at farming, which is where comparative advantage comes it.

As long as every person is taught how to be self sufficient... division of labor is just a case of desire, not survival. Self sufficiency needs nothing, because it is self sufficient. There can be no stronger economic structure.

You have already said that. We will be convinced by analysis, not your opinion.
Grape
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6/28/2011 9:30:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:19:39 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

If you can't comprehend self sufficiency because it can be taught.. Then I don't think I even need to answer anything else. Your brain obviously has very limited potential towards thinking in such ways. Wanna start with this simple concept?


My brain has actually preformed fairly well for as long as I have been using it.

Everything is taught in order to be learned. You either teach yourself or other's help you. Becoming self sufficient towards survival is no different. Once you learn it, it is learned and you are self sufficient. Understand now? Once you can comprehend that, then we will move on.

I'm aware of that. The problem is that the idea of teaching people how to survive is inconsistent with the principle of self-sufficiency. I'm not saying you can't teach people how to farm; I'm saying that people who have to be taught how to harm are in spirit not self-sufficient and cannot be expected to preference or perform well in a social order based on self-sufficiency.
Cliff.Stamp
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6/28/2011 9:31:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:12:45 PM, askbob wrote:

I say we all strive towards a society with no diseases and immortality where everyone is happy

That is revolutionary. You should write a fake book about it after you troll an internet form for it for "ideas". The first chapter should be able how to cure all illness through hardcore shuffle and the second can be how to provide free energy through a combination of perpetual motion magnet motors and harnessing the universal spiritual energy all around us.
Grape
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6/28/2011 9:37:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:36:05 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

SHut the FuuCK uP CliFF. You are a complete FuuckING moron. Go TroLL that.

Who is a child throwing a hissy fit?
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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6/28/2011 9:45:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:36:05 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/28/2011 9:31:10 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/28/2011 9:12:45 PM, askbob wrote:

I say we all strive towards a society with no diseases and immortality where everyone is happy

That is revolutionary. You should write a fake book about it after you troll an internet form for it for "ideas". The first chapter should be able how to cure all illness through hardcore shuffle and the second can be how to provide free energy through a combination of perpetual motion magnet motors and harnessing the universal spiritual energy all around us.

SHut the FuuCK uP CliFF. You are a complete FuuckING moron. Go TroLL that.

You know, Justin, I'm not trying to be mean, but whenever you disrespect the awesome Cliff, who's been voting, writing, and especially honing debates, you've struck a chord. And especially with the part of calling Cliff being a "complete FuuuckING moron" really is rude. I suggest that Askbob include a chapter where words don't magically become capitalized or come out like someone from Tourette's Syndrome.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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6/28/2011 9:46:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:37:43 PM, Grape wrote:
At 6/28/2011 9:36:05 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

SHut the FuuCK uP CliFF. You are a complete FuuckING moron. Go TroLL that.

Who is a child throwing a hissy fit?

A "fecal fit".
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Grape
Posts: 989
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6/28/2011 9:46:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If you're going to call me an idiot after one small disagreement, I'm not going to talk to you anymore.

Why do you continue to post here if you think everyone is so stupid?
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/28/2011 9:48:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:37:43 PM, Grape wrote:
At 6/28/2011 9:36:05 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

SHut the FuuCK uP CliFF. You are a complete FuuckING moron. Go TroLL that.

Who is a child throwing a hissy fit?

Meeeeeeeeeeeeee! I nooooo liiiike you guys ANYMORE! Waaaaaaaa!!!! You guys are DOODY HEADS!!! Waaaaaaaaa!!!!

You guys want to troll and act like children? It's time for me to have some fun now. Trying to get some intelligent conversation is almost a complete waste of my time on this website. I see that now.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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6/28/2011 9:48:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:46:24 PM, Grape wrote:
If you're going to call me an idiot after one small disagreement, I'm not going to talk to you anymore.

Why do you continue to post here if you think everyone is so stupid?

You know, dark-kermit was right. I can't stand people who call others stupid and moronic, especially to the great Cliff.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/28/2011 9:48:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 8:20:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

You have a lot to learn Cody. I'm not going to keep bickering back and forth with you.

Not an argument.

You fail to apply logic to even the most basic of social concepts with your AnCap society.

Examples?

It is weak and it will never happen.

Bare assertion.

Structure will always be formed out of anarchy.

That would be capitalism--economic structure.

Order will always come out of chaos.

This presupposes that anarchy is inherently chaotic. I agree that anarchic societies would have a social order--this order just isn't imposed on everyone by a state.

Learning efficient structure would be a much wiser goal than pushing AnCap.

You've failed to prove that AnCap isn't efficient, or that your social theory is efficient.

AnCap is inefficient.

Prove it.

All of your arguments against my statement fall flat in the face of logic and all of your questions were already answered.

My argument haven't fallen, because you haven't refuted them.

I'm not playing into your word wizardry this time. Your banter is a waste of both of our time.

Not an argument.

You make false comparisons and false assumptions.

Examples?

Your words hold no weight and therefor this specific conversation has little value.

Not an argument.

Your argument is one similar to a child throwing a mental hissy fit.

This is an ad hominem, because it attempts to discredit my argument on the basis of alleged similarities to a tempera tantrum. It refutes nothing.

Also, self sufficiency is the strongest form of economy that there ever can be.

You're not only presupposing self-sufficiency, but you're also failing to describe on what terms it is considered "strongest". I already argued that, by attempting to eliminate comparative advantage, you're basically asking everyone to attempt absolute advantage at everything (which is what self-sufficiency is), which results in a lower quality of life than what would have existed in a decentralized society based on free trade.

Show me where the holographic structure fails.

I've demonstrated problems in my prior post, but you failed to address them. Magic Wand Theory is one you've failed to address on multiple occasions, so I suggest you begin with that.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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6/28/2011 9:49:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:48:11 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/28/2011 9:37:43 PM, Grape wrote:
At 6/28/2011 9:36:05 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

SHut the FuuCK uP CliFF. You are a complete FuuckING moron. Go TroLL that.

Who is a child throwing a hissy fit?

Meeeeeeeeeeeeee! I nooooo liiiike you guys ANYMORE! Waaaaaaaa!!!! You guys are DOODY HEADS!!! Waaaaaaaaa!!!!

A child could make a much more convincing fit than that.

You guys want to troll and act like children? It's time for me to have some fun now. Trying to get some intelligent conversation is almost a complete waste of my time on this website. I see that now.

It's ironic since your behavior is very childish. If you expect an "intelligent conversation", then why go around and start nicknaming others with "idiot" or "f'n moron"? Who's the child/troll now?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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6/28/2011 9:52:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 6:45:49 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

The holographic social structure is a social structure that spreads power evenly and can fix any weakness within the system swiftly. Teaching people self sufficiency would be the number one focus. If every single person and every single community had self sufficiency as their goal then it would create a nation which is economically strong unlike anything that we have seen in recent history. Sure, trade if you want, but never DEPEND on another community or another nation for your survival or economic stability. Even down to the single person, never depend on another for your survival. Always have the ability to be self sufficient if the situation calls for it. That is a holographic structure. It is a far more advanced social structure than the pyramid social structure.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Why. For the love of god Why. Why do you think that a system of perfect independence should be called "holographic"? Here is a picture of a hologram http://cdn.ubergizmo.com... it does not symbolize individuality or anything. Its just a god damn virtual image of a strawberry.

Here is a picture of a peg board. http://www.maplegrace.com... Each peg stands alone. It is not 3d. It is not a virtual image. Its just pegs. The pegs are all independent but they come together and make a beautiful butterfly which symbolizes the harmonious system you want to build.

So instead of calling this the "holographic structure", you should call it the "Maple Grace Haba Wooden Pegs for Babies structure".

This is a holographic social structure. It is a structure of true strength and

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Things that are so interesting:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,295
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6/28/2011 9:54:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I was always under the impression that America's social stratification is more like a pear-shape, but with all the government rewards in place now for not producing, it may evolve into a pyramid.
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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6/28/2011 10:00:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:37:43 PM, Grape wrote:
At 6/28/2011 9:36:05 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

SHut the FuuCK uP CliFF. You are a complete FuuckING moron. Go TroLL that.

Who is a child throwing a hissy fit?

The same one eating glue, probably.

Justin, this is a thread, not a blog. Threads involve discussion. If you are not open to that, start a blog instead.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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6/28/2011 10:15:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 10:06:33 PM, Sieben wrote:
Nice. He deactivated his account. http://t2.gstatic.com...

Only there's a few more trolls on this website...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau