Total Posts:18|Showing Posts:1-18
Jump to topic:

Obama is the best

Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2011 1:37:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.... After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
ApostateAbe
Posts: 225
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2011 2:22:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It is an urban legend that has been around the Internet for a few years. It is not so much about Obama's unspecified "plan" as it is about Obama's image as a full-blown socialist among right wingers. It would seem like an appropriate parable against socialism if Obama were not such an ill-fitting representative of the ideology. If Obama truly represented socialism, then I would suspect that socialism is not so bad, which would be the undesirable side effect of attaching that label to Obama.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2011 5:45:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/26/2011 2:22:22 AM, ApostateAbe wrote:
It is an urban legend that has been around the Internet for a few years. It is not so much about Obama's unspecified "plan" as it is about Obama's image as a full-blown socialist among right wingers. It would seem like an appropriate parable against socialism if Obama were not such an ill-fitting representative of the ideology. If Obama truly represented socialism, then I would suspect that socialism is not so bad, which would be the undesirable side effect of attaching that label to Obama.

Okay, let's just say for the sake of argument, that Obama's ideology was exactly that of Hugo Chavez, a self avowed socialist, how would his policies be different given American politics and the context in which he must operate?
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/26/2011 8:11:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The analogy assumes that the one's hard work equates to one's wealth - i.e., the harder one works, the richer one is. In reality things aren't nearly that simple: chance plays a huge role in how wealthy one is.
Ieyeb
Posts: 20
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/31/2011 8:30:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
..Cool experiment,.. but is not a good representation of socialism,
- the biggest problem with the experiment is the size of the divide,
- the size of the divide for the classroom pertaining to those who make A's
Is the reverse polarity of the Size of the general community that would make ..lets say 250k a year...
-also the model is too closely related to the "will of the students" vs the "will of modern folk"... two really different types of people....
kohai
Posts: 380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/31/2011 8:45:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Socialists support equal pay for equal labour. Notice the EQUAL LABOUR part!
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/31/2011 10:04:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/31/2011 8:45:31 PM, kohai wrote:
Socialists support equal pay for equal labour. Notice the EQUAL LABOUR part!

It's impossible to notice (calculate) that. We can calculate value of labor but not labor itself. And if we did we would pay people to punch brick walls all day.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/1/2011 7:43:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/31/2011 10:04:06 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/31/2011 8:45:31 PM, kohai wrote:
Socialists support equal pay for equal labour. Notice the EQUAL LABOUR part!

It's impossible to notice (calculate) that. We can calculate value of labor but not labor itself. And if we did we would pay people to punch brick walls all day.

Socialists generally consider labor to be equal. Thus, it's calculated on time given.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/1/2011 7:48:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/1/2011 7:43:42 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/31/2011 10:04:06 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/31/2011 8:45:31 PM, kohai wrote:
Socialists support equal pay for equal labour. Notice the EQUAL LABOUR part!

It's impossible to notice (calculate) that. We can calculate value of labor but not labor itself. And if we did we would pay people to punch brick walls all day.

Socialists generally consider labor to be equal. Thus, it's calculated on time given.

for a given industry. Most socialists don't consider 10 hours of house building equal to 10 hours of nuclear engineering.

But they do view 100 hours of house building by these people to be equal to 100 hours of house building by those people (typically because if all the house builders are trained in the same way, to build the same kinds of houses, their labor should all be roughly equal).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/1/2011 8:04:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/1/2011 7:43:42 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/31/2011 10:04:06 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/31/2011 8:45:31 PM, kohai wrote:
Socialists support equal pay for equal labour. Notice the EQUAL LABOUR part!

It's impossible to notice (calculate) that. We can calculate value of labor but not labor itself. And if we did we would pay people to punch brick walls all day.

Socialists have absurd assumptions.
Yup.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/1/2011 8:05:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
typically because if all the house builders are trained in the same way, to build the same kinds of houses, their labor should all be roughly equal
Randy Moss is trained the same way as Bernard Berrian, to make the same kinds of catches.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/1/2011 8:24:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/1/2011 8:05:04 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
typically because if all the house builders are trained in the same way, to build the same kinds of houses, their labor should all be roughly equal
Randy Moss is trained the same way as Bernard Berrian, to make the same kinds of catches.

Do you really think the sports league would really be effected negatively If all athletes were paid equally? How much does financial incentive matters for athletes?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/1/2011 8:40:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Athletes right now frequently go places where they will get more money at the cost of glory, playing time, etc. And sometimes they don't, but the fact that they frequently do shows that financial incentives matter, if perhaps not as much as in professions that are not games.

Note the lockout in the NFL, athletes choosing not to play at all if they don't get paid well enough-- when well enough involves figures much higher than would happen if all athletes in all leagues were paid equally.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/1/2011 8:43:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Of course, other examples would probably be better, but most professions aren't put into the spotlight where we can all name the professionals and compare them...

Except...

Those of you who think Ron Paul's legislative labors are not equal in value to Nancy Pelosi's, raise your hand (every hand in the room should be raised unless you just don't care about politics, they are different enough that you should be able to pick a lesser legislative equal).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/1/2011 8:43:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
*lesser legislative evil*
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/1/2011 9:31:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
since when is Obama a socialist? Taxing according to income is not socialism, it makes perfect sense that those with more, give more. The lesson your professor gave was ill conceived and inappropriate. It showed socialism, yes, but it did not show what Obama was doing.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault