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Hazing

Danielle
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8/7/2011 11:11:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm part of a co-ed (social) fraternity. Though my delusional Brothers and Sisters insist we have a No Hazing policy for pledges, that is such bullshiit. We haze. We don't ask people to drink a lot of alcohol, get naked, walk in tandem, humiliate themselves or prohibit them from talking (all things I have heard about other frats), but we do ask certain things of pledges that undoubtedly qualify as hazing, i.e., going on "runs" for members. For instance, a member might say "Here's $5. Get me a slice of pizza from Tony's and a Coke from Jimmy's. Bring receipts back from both to prove you went to two separate places." They also have to clean the house at like 6:00 in the morning 3 days a week, memorize/recite a ton, endure an attitude problem (to say the least!) from members and alumni, etc.

Now, before and during pledging I thought this was the BIGGEST bunch of crap. My friends were SHOCKED that I made it (I had my own reasons for sticking with it... lol hint: pretty girls... and I got away with A LOT that I shouldn't have; basically I was the worst pledge ever and BARELY made it). However after being "on the other side," I am not totally opposed to it, or at least I'm trying to refine my position. I do think it's true that people care more about things they put a lot of effort into, and have a better chance of sticking with it. I also do believe that some of the challenges imposed on pledges help deduce who would actually endure the challenges of membership (and in my frat there are a lot, considering we don't have a National and there is only one of us... it's a long story).

But hazing for things like sports teams and some aspects of the military seems ridiculous and absurd. Football teams get absolutely nothing out of hazing except for perhaps their own sick enjoyment. While military groups insist hazing promotes bonding or whatever, I fail to see how a lot of that is an integral part of their training (think A Few Good Men). I also think that other aspects of military training in general promote that anti-individualistic mentality, so this type of hazing is not necessary. I can admit though that inside perspectives are different from outside ones, based on my own experience and perception of my frat's hazing vs. my friend's who are not involved in my frat and how we see it. Also note that I thought (and still think) frats in general are so dumb, but can honestly say mine is very different than your average fraternity... so don't make assumptions :P

What are people's ideas about hazing: what is seemingly productive, in what environments and why? Please note if you are talking from your own experience (not hearsay), as I do think people who have been through it and have imposed it see it differently than those who have not. However, I also think outside perspectives are helpful, or else you just have the "brainwashed" pro-hazing people's POV ;)
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PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/7/2011 11:27:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
What are people's ideas about hazing: what is seemingly productive, in what environments and why? Please note if you are talking from your own experience (not hearsay), as I do think people who have been through it and have imposed it see it differently than those who have not. However, I also think outside perspectives are helpful, or else you just have the "brainwashed" pro-hazing people's POV ;):

I don't see anything wrong with hazing in and of itself. Passing through a 'rite of passage' often instills a sense of camaraderie and fosters unit cohesion.

The only problem with hazing is that it has the potential to get out of control. Some people are simply sadists who take things too far. People have been bullied to the point of breaking, have been injured, and people have been killed over it.

It's a shame when a few dumbasses ruin a good thing for thousands of responsible people. In an attempt to get it under control, most universities and all of the (US) military has officially banned hazing because there's no way to explain to dumb or sadistic people where the line is... it's all too grey to them.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
mattrodstrom
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8/7/2011 1:17:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/7/2011 11:11:11 AM, Danielle wrote:
a member might say "Here's $5. Get me a slice of pizza from Tony's and a Coke from Jimmy's. Bring receipts back from both to prove you went to two separate places."

yeah.. the proper response to that request is "shove it"

why would you care to hang out with morons?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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8/7/2011 1:17:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/7/2011 1:17:19 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/7/2011 11:11:11 AM, Danielle wrote:
a member might say "Here's $5. Get me a slice of pizza from Tony's and a Coke from Jimmy's. Bring receipts back from both to prove you went to two separate places."

yeah.. the proper response to that request is "shove it"

why would you care to hang out with morons?

Petty morons.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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8/7/2011 3:17:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
As someone who did not join a fraternity in college, I am totally against it. Running errands and facing attitude from members (can you clarify what exactly you meant by attitude and how bad it was?) isn't something that is useful like college education or working a job. There is no concept of working hard for it. There is only the concept of enduring unnecessary things. As an analogy, having an extremely tiring workout in the gym is painful but good for you and is like the equivalent of college classes or a real job. Accidentally smashing your toes on a chair is also painful but useless and is like the equivalent of pledging a fraternity. The actual pledging does not benefit you in any way.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/8/2011 8:08:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/7/2011 3:17:23 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
As someone who did not join a fraternity in college, I am totally against it. Running errands and facing attitude from members (can you clarify what exactly you meant by attitude and how bad it was?) isn't something that is useful like college education or working a job.

The thing that irked me the most was being spoken to in a very condescending way. Someone might ask, "Who's my Little? Who's my Grandlittle?" If you said you didn't know, you might be met with a snippy "No of course you don't" implying that you were stupid or something. Sometimes they would say, "Why don't you know it?" (Is there any real answer to that question? No, they're just being bitchy). Umm, another example - and one of my most annoying moments - is that pledges were responsible for answering the phone by the 3rd ring. The rule was that you could not tell the person on the other end who was speaking until they told you who they were first.

One night this member got wasted and decided to call, so I answered. He said, "Who's this?" I said, "Who's this?" He kept repeating "Who's this!" and yelling at me for not telling him who I was (of course it was a test), so for a good 5 minutes we just kept going with this back and forth where I would just reply, "No who's this?" until finally I got so aggravated I just hung up on him. I didn't get in trouble because it had gone on long enough, and because he was probably too drunk to care. That was one example where the hazing was about straight up being obnoxious and not actually trying to "teach something valuable" about membership or whatever. However, if you have a good sense of humor, you can laugh it off. Most of my pledge sibs (people I pledged with) just drank and smoked a lot and thought the entire process was kind of hilarious. It's not horrible if you don't take it too seriously, and in fact, a lot of the time I felt empowered because I knew the members would be lost without us lol.

There is no concept of working hard for it. There is only the concept of enduring unnecessary things.

The theory behind it is testing how much you care about something. So for instance, say you don't wanna clean the house. Well sometimes sh!t goes wrong in the house - i.e., we had a massive flood one year, and it needed to be cleaned (and it was gross). Now this house isn't ours (individually) personally, so what is the incentive to help? The logic is that if you are not willing to do certain things while pledging, then there's no reason to believe you would do it if you're not pledging and weren't "forced" to. Another example is helping out your Brothers and Sisters. Say someone needed a ride to the airport. A good member should probably offer to help; after all that's where the 'family' aspect comes into play aside from just the socialization aspect of a social fraternity. Well why would someone go out of their way to drive someone? A lot of people don't even do that for their friends. If someone is willing to go on runs for members while pledging, it's probably a good indication (and/or practice) that they would be voluntarily willing to help out a member even after they crossed. There's more to it than that; these are just frivolous examples.

There's also the idea, as I said, that working hard for something makes you appreciate it more (and that much I know is true). My friend's sorority doesn't haze, and sometimes pledges cross and don't really care about it afterwards and drop out. However if you put THAT much effort into something, you're likely to not let it become meaningless to you. Finally there's "pledge sib bonding," i.e. going through a whole bunch of BS with the people who are pledging with you. That's a typical tactic and goal of most hazing experiences.

As an analogy, having an extremely tiring workout in the gym is painful but good for you and is like the equivalent of college classes or a real job. Accidentally smashing your toes on a chair is also painful but useless and is like the equivalent of pledging a fraternity. The actual pledging does not benefit you in any way.

I disagree. I am thankful every day that I endured that process, because what I got out of it is far greater than the negative that I put into it. Sure I endured 10 weeks of bullshiit, but I've since enjoyed 5 amazing years with a ton of benefits that I would not have had if I hadn't done it. On a cost benefit analysis, the utility of pledging was greater than not pledging considering everything I did in fact get out of it (the perks if you will). I got nothing out of going on runs specifically, but the overall reward/return was totally worth it. I guess it's subjective :)
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/8/2011 11:40:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/7/2011 3:17:23 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
As someone who did not join a fraternity in college, I am totally against it. Running errands and facing attitude from members (can you clarify what exactly you meant by attitude and how bad it was?) isn't something that is useful like college education or working a job. There is no concept of working hard for it. There is only the concept of enduring unnecessary things. As an analogy, having an extremely tiring workout in the gym is painful but good for you and is like the equivalent of college classes or a real job. Accidentally smashing your toes on a chair is also painful but useless and is like the equivalent of pledging a fraternity. The actual pledging does not benefit you in any way.

Many times you have to accept additudes, from customers or bosses. If you spend your entire life telling your boss or customers to shove it when they ask something unreasonable, you're going to be in and out of more jobs than months of the year.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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8/8/2011 11:47:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Back in highschool, the baseball team had hazing issues. The Varcity team would pick on the freshman team (to the point of taking a crap in one person's baseball glove), and so the freshmen team responded by... picking on themselves. They would pin down one member and duck tape them to a bench (with are cemented into the floor). Part of the reason they sucked, once the coaches got that turned around, they won state (like 5 years later, and after one coach had to get fired for willingly allowing the hazing).

Though, oddly enough, the football team (which is bigger at the school) didn't have any hazing issues. Probably because they were actual good role models, while the baseball team was kind of a secondary sport that just wanted attention.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/8/2011 11:54:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The best haze I've ever seen was two Navy SEALs duct taping a BUD/s recruit to the tallest part of the Coronado Bay bridge. He was precariously dangling upside down for about 4 hours.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Rockylightning
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8/8/2011 12:21:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/8/2011 11:54:16 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
The best haze I've ever seen was two Navy SEALs duct taping a BUD/s recruit to the tallest part of the Coronado Bay bridge. He was precariously dangling upside down for about 4 hours.

The best? Or worst?
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/8/2011 4:08:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm generally against any sort of unquestioned conformity, and i never am comfortable with using it as a component to be part of a group where you are encouraged to create a system where authority is beyond and above question. I think there is some over value in comaraderie, and its implications in group dynamics can be damaging to the individual. Bad behavior is bad behavior and i'm not interested in how it's legitimized, and would have nothiong to do with a group that incorporates these rites into it's social structure and traditions.

Then again, i really don't trust almost all formal groups and memberships. There are no frats at BC, so i never had to deal with it there.
belle
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8/9/2011 12:33:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
personally i think hazing is kind of retarded. in the case of fraternaties or even sports teams its mostly harmless though, and if you don't want to deal with the sh*t then don't join. however, i think its worse in professions- specifically in medicine and law. law clerks and medical interns get treated like garbage... why? not because its supposed to teach them anything or build solidarity... but because their teachers treated them like garbage when they were interns and its only fair that they get to do the same to the new young'uns. its just an excuse to take out hostilities and frustrations on someone who can't fight back. while there is a degree of that in sports and frats, at least its balanced by the cohesiveness and solidarity it brings. you don't generally stay in the hospital or law office you train at, so that aspect becomes entirely irrelevant.

still, overall, i think its kind of juvenile. there are better ways to build group solidarity. and really, tying someone to a bridge and leaving them for 4 hours? no doubt they would face worse in combat situations, but that doesn't prepare them for anything specific, and is just f-ed up.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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8/9/2011 3:13:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/7/2011 3:17:23 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
As someone who did not join a fraternity in college, I am totally against it. Running errands and facing attitude from members (can you clarify what exactly you meant by attitude and how bad it was?) isn't something that is useful like college education or working a job. There is no concept of working hard for it. There is only the concept of enduring unnecessary things. As an analogy, having an extremely tiring workout in the gym is painful but good for you and is like the equivalent of college classes or a real job. Accidentally smashing your toes on a chair is also painful but useless and is like the equivalent of pledging a fraternity. The actual pledging does not benefit you in any way.

That's a bit of a generalization. My pledging session actually did me a lot of good and while there was what I suppose could be considered hazing, it wasn't really the stereotypical and mindless hazing where people make you do stuff for their enjoyment.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/9/2011 7:34:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/8/2011 10:55:14 PM, LeafRod wrote:
What's a co-ed fraternity like?

It's crazy! My frat is known to be exceptionally progressive (we have an amazing history, and were nationally recognized for it despite there only being one of us). We're also one of the only ones to openly embrace gay members. Since 2006, for some reason a lot of gays started pledging. Now the ratio of our members is almost exactly equal: half guys, half girls, half gay, half straight. As such, you can imagine there is A LOT of hooking up going on (and a lot of experientation). The straight guys that join are some of my absolute favorites, because obviously they're guys who are completely comfortable with themselves and their sexuality (which is why they pledged with us and not some other douche bag all-guy frat because they had something to prove). They're the kind of guys who defend the gay guys (and the girls, of course). I absolutely love being part of a co-ed fraternity and would NEVER pledge any other Greek organization than the one I did. It's incredibly unique and very special to me. It's just as crazy as other frats; I won't pretend there isn't a ridiculous amount of drinking and partying, though there's obviously more to it than that. Most co-ed frats are honors or community service fraternities. A co-ed social frat is definitely an interesting experience :P
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nonentity
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8/9/2011 9:18:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Cognitive dissonance in athletic hazing: The roles of commitment and athletic identity.
falseHinkle, Shelby L.. 2006. ProQuest Information & Learning, 2006. AAI3202451.



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Hazing research has shown that activities can include anything from the rookie athletes being yelled or cursed at to being subjected to sexual harassment or abuse (Bryshun, 1997, Bryshun & Young, 1999; Crandall, 2003; Hoover, 1999; Hoover & Pollard, 2000). Understanding whether athletes are comfortable with their hazing experience or report positive feelings to rationalize their behavior in what may have been an experience of dissonance is an important topic in the social psychology of sport. The major purposes of this research were to explore: (1) the nature of hazing in sport, (2) the psychosocial impact of hazing on the athlete, (3) how the nature of a hazing incident impacts an athlete's commitment to sport, and (4) how the nature of a hazing incident impacts an athlete's strength of athletic identity. Questionnaires were collected from 284 university graduate and undergraduate students to recruit the primary participant pool of hazed current and former athletes. All hazed athletes (n = 83) reported what sport they were involved in when they were hazed, age at the time of being hazed, current participation status, and self-rated the severity of their hazing. Each athlete wrote a description of their hazing experience. Interviews were conducted with 14 hazed athletes. Data were analyzed using Festinger's (1957) theory of cognitive dissonance as a lens for interpretation. Analyses of the written narratives, self-rating of hazing severity, and interviews revealed that the hazed athletes downplayed, rationalized, and justified their hazing experiences, which suggested that some athletes experienced cognitive dissonance as a result of their hazing experience. The athletes' commitment to sport and identity emerged as factors that contributed to the acceptance of their hazing experience, as well as the view that hazing is a rite of passage to gain social acceptance onto the sport team. Results are discussed in terms of the dissonance theory, athletic identity, and the anthropological literature on rites of passage. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)

The relationship between hazing and team cohesion.
falseVan Raalte, Judy L.View Profile
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. Journal of Sport Behavior30. 4 (Dec 2007): 491-507.


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Hazing has been widespread throughout history as a form of initiation into fraternities, service clubs, schools, and sport teams. Legislation and anti-hazing programming have been in effect for a number of years to reduce the negative effects and occurrence of sport hazing (MacLachlan, 2000). Although hazing is illegal in most states, some contend that hazing continues for a number of social reasons that serve important team functions such as enhancing team cohesion. The purpose of this research was to evaluate the contention that hazing is associated with enhanced team cohesion. Athletes (N = 167) completed a modified version of the Group Environment Questionnaire (GEQ; Widmeyer, Brawley, & Carron, 1985), the Team Initiation Questionnaire (TIQ; Hoover, 1999), and a social desirability scale (Crowne & Marlowe, 1960). Results indicated that the more appropriate team building behaviors that athletes were involved in, the more socially cohesive they perceived their team to be. The more hazing activities they reported doing or seeing, the less cohesive they perceived their team to be in sport-related tasks. The results of this study suggest that the argument that hazing builds team cohesion is flawed. Hazing is associated with less, not more, team cohesion. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)(journal abstract)
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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8/9/2011 9:36:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree somewhat with the above poster. Being hazed can be compared to the Stockholm syndrome. People who are hazed actually believe that it is good for them and that they became better people because of it. But from an objective standpoint, that resolution can be seen as flawed. It can be compared roughly with how hostages feel sympathy for the hostage taker and are thankful for whatever little things the hostage taker gives them and the refusal not want to leave even when free to do so. The hazed are (in a mild form) brainwashed into believing that being hazed is making them better, and after it is done, they are congratulated as if they had achieved something great. With that sort of reinforcement, this belief gets strongly embedded in their minds and they carry it forward for the rest of their lives.

Running errands and receiving attitude are not beneficial. The hazed are conditioned to believe that they are.
tornshoe92
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8/9/2011 10:58:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 9:36:35 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I agree somewhat with the above poster. Being hazed can be compared to the Stockholm syndrome. People who are hazed actually believe that it is good for them and that they became better people because of it. But from an objective standpoint, that resolution can be seen as flawed. It can be compared roughly with how hostages feel sympathy for the hostage taker and are thankful for whatever little things the hostage taker gives them and the refusal not want to leave even when free to do so. The hazed are (in a mild form) brainwashed into believing that being hazed is making them better, and after it is done, they are congratulated as if they had achieved something great. With that sort of reinforcement, this belief gets strongly embedded in their minds and they carry it forward for the rest of their lives.

Running errands and receiving attitude are not beneficial. The hazed are conditioned to believe that they are.

That still dependent on how you define hazing. If all you did as a pledge was go on food runs and do things for the members' amusement, then yes you'd probably be right. However that is by no means representative of all pledge experiences.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/9/2011 1:57:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 9:36:35 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Running errands and receiving attitude are not beneficial. The hazed are conditioned to believe that they are.

I was saying that it's worth it on a cost-benefit analysis. For instance parties are amazingly fun but cleaning up after them sucks. Well you spend 10 weeks cleaning up all the parties, and then you never have to clean up after them again (because the next pledges do it). It's kind of like working your way up in any organization: you do grunt work for awhile and then enjoy the perks. However, while I still think not all hazing is beneficial in any way, I do think some of it can be useful depending on what it is. Also some of it is surprisingly fun (because the things we did were never dangerous, like being forced to drink as some people are).
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OMGJustinBieber
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8/9/2011 3:09:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
On one hand the pledge knows that this type of thing will likely occur, but for me personally it just isn't my thing. I have plenty of friends in frats and sororities but I just don't want to be someone's b1tch even if it means entry to an exclusive organization.
LeafRod
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8/10/2011 10:10:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah, I had never heard of one that was social. That's sweet. I think it'd be fun to have pledge sisters/pledge bros who aren't dudes.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/10/2011 7:24:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 3:09:16 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
I just don't want to be someone's b1tch even if it means entry to an exclusive organization.

I'm sure you will be someone's b!tch at whatever job you choose to take :)
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OMGJustinBieber
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8/11/2011 9:50:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/10/2011 7:24:01 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 8/9/2011 3:09:16 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
I just don't want to be someone's b1tch even if it means entry to an exclusive organization.

I'm sure you will be someone's b!tch at whatever job you choose to take :)

I have no problem being someone's b1tch if I'm getting paid for it.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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8/12/2011 12:54:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Even still I've never been treated at work like some of the frat stories I've heard where big brothers basically own their little brothers.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/12/2011 7:01:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 9:50:51 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
I have no problem being someone's b1tch if I'm getting paid for it.

Non-monetary compensation exists :)

When my dad was in a horrible accident, members and alumni all chipped in money and donated it to my family. They also got me gas gift cards and the like because I had to travel so far to see him in the hospital every day. That plus the emotional support was really helpful, as just one example. In addition to social purposes, I've found being a part of this frat as convenient too. For instance when I was in-between moves and had nowhere to stay, I just crashed at the House for a few days.

To clarify my stance on hazing, I don't think it's beneficial in the vast majority of cases, but feel it can be worth it to endure if the hazing isn't too awful and the perks are decent. In my frat, Bigs and Littles are more like BFFs than someone you pwn. It's treated like a protective Big sister/brother relationship without the fighting.
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Lionheart
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8/19/2011 4:32:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/7/2011 11:11:11 AM, Danielle wrote:
I'm part of a co-ed (social) fraternity. Though my delusional Brothers and Sisters insist we have a No Hazing policy for pledges, that is such bullshiit. We haze. We don't ask people to drink a lot of alcohol, get naked, walk in tandem, humiliate themselves or prohibit them from talking (all things I have heard about other frats), but we do ask certain things of pledges that undoubtedly qualify as hazing, i.e., going on "runs" for members. For instance, a member might say "Here's $5. Get me a slice of pizza from Tony's and a Coke from Jimmy's. Bring receipts back from both to prove you went to two separate places." They also have to clean the house at like 6:00 in the morning 3 days a week, memorize/recite a ton, endure an attitude problem (to say the least!) from members and alumni, etc.

Now, before and during pledging I thought this was the BIGGEST bunch of crap. My friends were SHOCKED that I made it (I had my own reasons for sticking with it... lol hint: pretty girls... and I got away with A LOT that I shouldn't have; basically I was the worst pledge ever and BARELY made it). However after being "on the other side," I am not totally opposed to it, or at least I'm trying to refine my position. I do think it's true that people care more about things they put a lot of effort into, and have a better chance of sticking with it. I also do believe that some of the challenges imposed on pledges help deduce who would actually endure the challenges of membership (and in my frat there are a lot, considering we don't have a National and there is only one of us... it's a long story).

But hazing for things like sports teams and some aspects of the military seems ridiculous and absurd. Football teams get absolutely nothing out of hazing except for perhaps their own sick enjoyment. While military groups insist hazing promotes bonding or whatever, I fail to see how a lot of that is an integral part of their training (think A Few Good Men). I also think that other aspects of military training in general promote that anti-individualistic mentality, so this type of hazing is not necessary. I can admit though that inside perspectives are different from outside ones, based on my own experience and perception of my frat's hazing vs. my friend's who are not involved in my frat and how we see it. Also note that I thought (and still think) frats in general are so dumb, but can honestly say mine is very different than your average fraternity... so don't make assumptions :P

What are people's ideas about hazing: what is seemingly productive, in what environments and why? Please note if you are talking from your own experience (not hearsay), as I do think people who have been through it and have imposed it see it differently than those who have not. However, I also think outside perspectives are helpful, or else you just have the "brainwashed" pro-hazing people's POV ;)

I think hazing is interesting culturally. If it wasn't for hazing, the exciting energy of fraternities would be deluded.

Do you agree with me at all?
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
The_Serb
Posts: 35
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1/19/2014 4:52:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago

That's a bit of a generalization. My pledging session actually did me a lot of good and while there was what I suppose could be considered hazing, it wasn't really the stereotypical and mindless hazing where people make you do stuff for their enjoyment.

Yeah? he he what did they do too you?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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1/19/2014 10:04:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I wonder if hazing is valuable in the sense that kids coming from home learn very quickly that things are not handed to them. They have to earn a spot in the society, whether it is a frat, sports team, or military troop.

Growing up, you are accepted no matter what by your family (generally).
Hazing is a way to show you that you don't belong simply because you are there, you have to earn respect.
My work here is, finally, done.