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Get out of society?

Indophile
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8/12/2011 12:54:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is there a way in which one can get out of society and live without going out of the country?

Ragnar seems to think that it's impossible. I think it should be possible, but I don't know how.
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
innomen
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8/12/2011 1:46:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 12:54:53 PM, Indophile wrote:
Is there a way in which one can get out of society and live without going out of the country?

Ragnar seems to think that it's impossible. I think it should be possible, but I don't know how.

Without getting out of the country it would become a full time job. I suppose if you were to just slip up to Alaska or somewhere incredibly remote and learn how to live off the land eating bugs and stuff, it might be possible.
Indophile
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8/12/2011 2:34:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 2:23:32 PM, ruelariat wrote:
Depends on your definition of society.

Somewhere the government cannot reach you (in the governmental sense)
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
ruelariat
Posts: 186
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8/12/2011 2:48:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 2:34:22 PM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/12/2011 2:23:32 PM, ruelariat wrote:
Depends on your definition of society.

Somewhere the government cannot reach you (in the governmental sense)

Then it might be possible to "get out of society" if you erase all evidence of yourself and proof of your existence and try to lay under the radar. It would probably be best to go somewhere where the government can't track you (through street cameras, eye witnesses, etc.). The best place would be a remote and rural area as innomen said. If you had a friend who was still connected to society but the government couldn't trace you through that person then you could have your friend provide you with all of the necessities of life. This way you won't have to learn how to survive off the land.

But the best way to get out of society would be to erase all evidence of yourself, etc. (as previously stated) and then revert back to humankind's primitive ways in a remote area. In the primitive state, humans are more capable of surviving naturally because their minds are not tainted with modern day's technology and beliefs. You won't need an MP3 player to survive, and the idea of humanity and morals will only weaken you in the primitive state. However, there would by psychological effects when you reverted back to the primitive state (which I am not for sure how you would do but it would most likely be a gradual process) and it would depend on how strong and adaptable your mind is to determine how harsh the psychological effects would be. It is possible that there wouldn't be any psychological effects but it would just depend on how well you adapted.
Indophile
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8/12/2011 2:51:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 2:48:12 PM, ruelariat wrote:
At 8/12/2011 2:34:22 PM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/12/2011 2:23:32 PM, ruelariat wrote:
Depends on your definition of society.

Somewhere the government cannot reach you (in the governmental sense)

Then it might be possible to "get out of society" if you erase all evidence of yourself and proof of your existence and try to lay under the radar. It would probably be best to go somewhere where the government can't track you (through street cameras, eye witnesses, etc.). The best place would be a remote and rural area as innomen said. If you had a friend who was still connected to society but the government couldn't trace you through that person then you could have your friend provide you with all of the necessities of life. This way you won't have to learn how to survive off the land.

Uh oh. Illegal immigrants :)

But the best way to get out of society would be to erase all evidence of yourself, etc. (as previously stated) and then revert back to humankind's primitive ways in a remote area. In the primitive state, humans are more capable of surviving naturally because their minds are not tainted with modern day's technology and beliefs. You won't need an MP3 player to survive, and the idea of humanity and morals will only weaken you in the primitive state. However, there would by psychological effects when you reverted back to the primitive state (which I am not for sure how you would do but it would most likely be a gradual process) and it would depend on how strong and adaptable your mind is to determine how harsh the psychological effects would be. It is possible that there wouldn't be any psychological effects but it would just depend on how well you adapted.

Apparently due to things like National Parks Act, you cannot simply go to a remote area and start living off the wilderness.
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/12/2011 3:05:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 2:34:22 PM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/12/2011 2:23:32 PM, ruelariat wrote:
Depends on your definition of society.

Somewhere the government cannot reach you (in the governmental sense)

Reply: You can. Anywhere that is remote will do. You will have to learn how to live off the land though. I recommend investing in some agricultural seeds for planting when you find an area to make your home. You might want to take a small stock of rice and oatmeal too. It will come in handy in emergency situations, when you may not be able to hunt or gather food. Also, pack a hand axe, a large buck knife, small break down fishing pole, some hooks, a small camping set of cookware, a sharpening stone, a large pack of lighters, flint, a box of thick plastic garbage bags, a large roll of weather proof twine, a compass, a notebook, pencils, a first aid kit, and an emergency radio/walkie talkie. With that supply list you should be ok for awhile. Also, you may want to bring a few books to help with passing the time and a few that will help you learn the land where you choose to live away from society. Before you go you could even get a library card from the nearest public library available to your area. That way you have a free source of entertainment and knowledge at all times (books). You may have to journey a certain amount of miles to go there every time, but it will give you a destination and a purpose. Having such a purpose might become enjoyable to you when living away from society.

Good luck if you ever decide to do it.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/12/2011 3:06:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Sure, parts of the mid-west are still rife with neonazis and various cults that stay in unpopulated areas outside the general reach of the US government. Other than the middle of the pacific ocean, that's pretty far from America society without going to a new country.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/12/2011 3:09:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 2:51:16 PM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/12/2011 2:48:12 PM, ruelariat wrote:
At 8/12/2011 2:34:22 PM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/12/2011 2:23:32 PM, ruelariat wrote:
Depends on your definition of society.

Somewhere the government cannot reach you (in the governmental sense)

Then it might be possible to "get out of society" if you erase all evidence of yourself and proof of your existence and try to lay under the radar. It would probably be best to go somewhere where the government can't track you (through street cameras, eye witnesses, etc.). The best place would be a remote and rural area as innomen said. If you had a friend who was still connected to society but the government couldn't trace you through that person then you could have your friend provide you with all of the necessities of life. This way you won't have to learn how to survive off the land.

Uh oh. Illegal immigrants :)

But the best way to get out of society would be to erase all evidence of yourself, etc. (as previously stated) and then revert back to humankind's primitive ways in a remote area. In the primitive state, humans are more capable of surviving naturally because their minds are not tainted with modern day's technology and beliefs. You won't need an MP3 player to survive, and the idea of humanity and morals will only weaken you in the primitive state. However, there would by psychological effects when you reverted back to the primitive state (which I am not for sure how you would do but it would most likely be a gradual process) and it would depend on how strong and adaptable your mind is to determine how harsh the psychological effects would be. It is possible that there wouldn't be any psychological effects but it would just depend on how well you adapted.

Apparently due to things like National Parks Act, you cannot simply go to a remote area and start living off the wilderness.

Reply: I wouldn't recommend a national park, just remote areas. National parks usually have tourists and rangers that go through. You might be able to find some areas that aren't watched very closely or often, but I wouldn't recommend the risk as there are plenty of non-national park areas you can go throughout the country.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/12/2011 6:20:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The laws still apply in the places where the militias are (otherwise there would be no point in their being militias, i.e. variously preparing for the day when an opportunity arises or when a need arises to overthrow the government-- which of those two depends on the specific militia's outlook). Remember, the question in the other thread was avoiding certain laws, not avoiding "society."
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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8/12/2011 7:07:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Buy an abandoned oil rig and live there.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
ruelariat
Posts: 186
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8/13/2011 12:21:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Uh oh. Illegal immigrants :)
Gotta love 'em.

Apparently due to things like National Parks Act, you cannot simply go to a remote area and start living off the wilderness.
I'm sure there are some areas in the world that aren't under any National Parks Act or belong to any country or are in any other jurisdiction of the world. But besides, as you will have completely erased yourself from the map, no one would know if you were living off of a national reserve or not (so long as you kept yourself hidden).
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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8/17/2011 9:21:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 12:54:53 PM, Indophile wrote:
Is there a way in which one can get out of society and live without going out of the country?

No.

Ragnar seems to think that it's impossible. I think it should be possible, but I don't know how.

That would be inconsistent with my discussions with Ragnar. He has told me that I have the freedom of choice in America, and that I can go "pick berries in the woods" if I want to live separately, so I am not essentially forced to work menial labor to survive.

Tiel gave a lengthy response as to how one could procure many items and then live independently afterward. Notice he doesn't plan on making all the items on his list. Therefore I reject his response (and the responses similar to his); he is simply taking the fruits of society and then living dependently off it from a distance. If you're going to take a bunch of stuff that other people had to labor to create, then why not just add to the list a mansion with all the amenities, some electric generators, and a whole bunch of other stuff? The spirit of the question isn't how to survive on a camping trip, it's how to separate oneself from the assistance of society.

We are social animals. It is virtually impossible for any of us to escape society. Also, there are very few areas, if any, that aren't actually owned by someone already anyway.
Rob
Ragnar_Rahl
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8/17/2011 9:48:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 9:21:10 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/12/2011 12:54:53 PM, Indophile wrote:
Is there a way in which one can get out of society and live without going out of the country?

No.

Ragnar seems to think that it's impossible. I think it should be possible, but I don't know how.

That would be inconsistent with my discussions with Ragnar. He has told me that I have the freedom of choice in America, and that I can go "pick berries in the woods" if I want to live separately
I may have said that about capitalism, but America is not a capitalist country. Although if your goal is to avoid being employed by someone-- it's considerably more likely to work for that than if your goal is to avoid taxes and other economic regulations.

Also, there are very few areas, if any, that aren't actually owned by someone already anyway.
That's not true, it's just that the government acts like it owns said areas :).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
brian_eggleston
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8/17/2011 10:18:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
In the short term it may be possible to escape society by living out in the wilds but sooner or later society will catch up with you.

All land belongs to either the Government (national parks, military bases, Indian reservations, etc.); private individuals; corporations or other NGO's and it is only a matter of time before your shelter will be discovered – possibly the smoke from your camp fire will betray your whereabouts.

Now, being in America, this is very bad news because the average American a) hates trespassers and b) loves guns.
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brian_eggleston
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8/17/2011 10:45:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Actually, I have gone as about as far as it is possible to escape the clutches of government control in so much as my registered address is my boat which is moored in a marina.

This means I am exempt from certain taxes such as the Council Tax (a local tax of about £2,500 / $4,000 per year) and although the marina is located in central London, whilst aboard I am subject to Maritime Law, rather than Common Law, which means that the police cannot obtain a warrant to board my vessel – only the Royal Navy have the right to come aboard without my express consent.
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Indophile
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8/17/2011 11:13:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 10:45:44 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Actually, I have gone as about as far as it is possible to escape the clutches of government control in so much as my registered address is my boat which is moored in a marina.

This means I am exempt from certain taxes such as the Council Tax (a local tax of about £2,500 / $4,000 per year) and although the marina is located in central London, whilst aboard I am subject to Maritime Law, rather than Common Law, which means that the police cannot obtain a warrant to board my vessel – only the Royal Navy have the right to come aboard without my express consent.

That's...unique.

How much does it cost per year though, to keep a boat moored in the marina?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
brian_eggleston
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8/17/2011 12:03:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 11:13:49 AM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/17/2011 10:45:44 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Actually, I have gone as about as far as it is possible to escape the clutches of government control in so much as my registered address is my boat which is moored in a marina.

This means I am exempt from certain taxes such as the Council Tax (a local tax of about £2,500 / $4,000 per year) and although the marina is located in central London, whilst aboard I am subject to Maritime Law, rather than Common Law, which means that the police cannot obtain a warrant to board my vessel – only the Royal Navy have the right to come aboard without my express consent.

That's...unique.

How much does it cost per year though, to keep a boat moored in the marina?

About £5,000 / $8,000...

...I haven't done the maths have I?

Really though, it's fabulous having the boat there – and a priviledge too as there are only 100 residential licences on the lower reaches of the Thames and I've got one of them.

Also, sailing up the Thames under Tower Bridge and past famous landmarks such as the Tower of London the Houses of Parliament is a real pleasure on a summer day.
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Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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8/17/2011 12:06:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 11:13:49 AM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/17/2011 10:45:44 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Actually, I have gone as about as far as it is possible to escape the clutches of government control in so much as my registered address is my boat which is moored in a marina.

This means I am exempt from certain taxes such as the Council Tax (a local tax of about £2,500 / $4,000 per year) and although the marina is located in central London, whilst aboard I am subject to Maritime Law, rather than Common Law, which means that the police cannot obtain a warrant to board my vessel – only the Royal Navy have the right to come aboard without my express consent.

That's...unique.

How much does it cost per year though, to keep a boat moored in the marina?

In the U.S. marinas are privately owned, so you're just trading your rent money for a space in their lot. And I would imagine they have tremendous leeway to tell you exactly what you can do and how to do it.
Rob
brian_eggleston
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8/17/2011 12:16:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 12:06:06 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/17/2011 11:13:49 AM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/17/2011 10:45:44 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Actually, I have gone as about as far as it is possible to escape the clutches of government control in so much as my registered address is my boat which is moored in a marina.

This means I am exempt from certain taxes such as the Council Tax (a local tax of about £2,500 / $4,000 per year) and although the marina is located in central London, whilst aboard I am subject to Maritime Law, rather than Common Law, which means that the police cannot obtain a warrant to board my vessel – only the Royal Navy have the right to come aboard without my express consent.

That's...unique.

How much does it cost per year though, to keep a boat moored in the marina?

In the U.S. marinas are privately owned, so you're just trading your rent money for a space in their lot. And I would imagine they have tremendous leeway to tell you exactly what you can do and how to do it.

My marina is publically owned (which is very unusual) but they do try and introduce unpopular regulations sometimes. However, between us bertholders, we have many friends in high places and a phone call to the right politician usually settles any dispute in our favour.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/17/2011 12:20:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 12:16:39 PM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/17/2011 12:06:06 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/17/2011 11:13:49 AM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/17/2011 10:45:44 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Actually, I have gone as about as far as it is possible to escape the clutches of government control in so much as my registered address is my boat which is moored in a marina.

This means I am exempt from certain taxes such as the Council Tax (a local tax of about £2,500 / $4,000 per year) and although the marina is located in central London, whilst aboard I am subject to Maritime Law, rather than Common Law, which means that the police cannot obtain a warrant to board my vessel – only the Royal Navy have the right to come aboard without my express consent.

That's...unique.

How much does it cost per year though, to keep a boat moored in the marina?

In the U.S. marinas are privately owned, so you're just trading your rent money for a space in their lot. And I would imagine they have tremendous leeway to tell you exactly what you can do and how to do it.

My marina is publically owned (which is very unusual) but they do try and introduce unpopular regulations sometimes. However, between us bertholders, we have many friends in high places and a phone call to the right politician usually settles any dispute in our favour.

Bah! Champagne socialist! ;-)
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/17/2011 4:33:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 12:54:53 PM, Indophile wrote:
Is there a way in which one can get out of society and live without going out of the country?:

There are separtist groups all throughout places like Montana, Wyoming, the Dakota's, etc, so yes it is possible. There are still huge swathes of unused land in the US.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Lasagna
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8/17/2011 7:15:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 4:33:31 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 8/12/2011 12:54:53 PM, Indophile wrote:
Is there a way in which one can get out of society and live without going out of the country?:

There are separtist groups all throughout places like Montana, Wyoming, the Dakota's, etc, so yes it is possible. There are still huge swathes of unused land in the US.

Yeah vast stretches of desert. Why don't you just offer him a nice spot at the bottom of the Mariana Trench? I don't think anybody owns that yet...
Rob
seraine
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8/17/2011 9:16:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 7:15:20 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Yeah vast stretches of desert. Why don't you just offer him a nice spot at the bottom of the Mariana Trench? I don't think anybody owns that yet...

The government probably does...

"We are the government. If we do not sell a permit for that land, we own the land. If we sell you a permit, it means we don't own it unless we feel like it. Do not try to resist, or you will be labeled a terrorist and jailed."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/17/2011 9:38:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Law of the Sea Treaty. Not US recognized, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

All the dark green countries have declared the deep bits of the oceans (and therefore the Mariana Trench) to be socialized property of UN sponsored entity called "The Enterprise."
The light green countries have signed but not ratified. I'm sure if someone somehow made a serious attempt at colonizing the Mariana Trench there would be a lot of ratifications flying, including probably the US's under the present administration.

Not only that, but said Enterprise apparently would have de facto eminent domain over the intellectual property that made such colonization feasible in the first place.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.