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What's communism?

kohai
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8/13/2011 4:27:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
From revleft

What is Communism?

Without a doubt, you've probably heard about communism. And, also without a doubt, you've probably heard all sorts of horror stories about it — from your teachers, from the media, from politicians, even from your church pastor or preacher.

They tried to scare you. They want to keep you from finding out for yourself. If you asked one authority figure for a second opinion, they usually told you to ask another authority figure. And if that didn't satisfy you, then they told you to read the history books they wrote for you.

Do you see a pattern here? The one person they will never tell you to talk to, however, is a communist. Why? Because a communist might go "off script" and tell you something they don't want you to hear.

So, what is communism? Well, there is communism, the theory, and communism, the society. Let's first deal with communism, the society.

To begin with, communism is a society without bosses or servants, without superiors or subordinates, without masters or slaves — in short, communism is a society without classes and the stress, conflict and antagonisms that go with the existence of classes. Contrary to the history they teach you, classes are a relatively new thing in the human experience, having been around for only about 25,000 of the last 5 million years of human existence.

"But," someone might say, "there are a lot more people alive today than there were back then." That's true. What's also true is that we are smarter, more conscious of our world and more technologically advanced than our ancestors. We really don't need someone standing over us, telling us what to do and when to do it. If necessary, we can work that out together, in common.

Because it is a society without classes, communism is also a society where all aspects of society are developed and administered in common. That means not only the political system, but the economy, culture and social relations too. Can you imagine, having an equal voice, along with your co-workers, in deciding how conditions at your job would be determined? Or, having a say, along with your neighbors, in shaping how the city's budget will be spent?

Democracy is a key element in the development of communism — but not the stale, formal "democracy" we are taught about in school; we are talking about democracy as a practice, a real-world tool that works for those who work.

As well, communism is a society without a state. Now, when we talk about a "state," we are not talking about councils and assemblies that debate issues and adopt policy. When we say "state," we mean the armed organizations that enforce "order" (the rulers' "order," that is), like the police and military.

"No police?!" Yes, no police. What are the police really for? Well, when you live in a society where goods and services are restricted to a few, you end up with the many in need. When you have so many in need, you need to maintain order. However, if you live in a society where the needs of everyone in society are met, what need is there for police? If everyone's basic needs — good food, decent housing, worthwhile education, etc. — are met, what basis is there for most of the crime in society?

Sure, there may be times here and there that may require some kind of investigation or enforcement unit, but those times would be relatively few and far between, and could easily be handled as they come up.

It is also the case that communism is a society without money. "Without money?!" Yes, without money. Why does money exist? Basically, it was invented so that one group of owners wouldn't get screwed by another set of owners. But, if you have a society where the factories and workplaces are owned in common, and we can sit down and plan out three months, six months or even a year in advance what we have to produce to provide all that we need, what point is there to having money?

Also, if we're all working together to produce what we need and administer our own affairs, we can cut out a lot of things we don't need. For example, we don't need all those layers of managers and officials that we pay (through our labor and the profits it creates) to tell us to work harder. Similarly, we don't need all of those professional politicians and bureaucrats in the government who do everything they can to convince us that our future should be in the hands of "professionals" who have no clue what we deal with on a daily basis. For that matter, we don't need all those worthless professions that exist only because we live in a profit-driven society, like advertising, marketing, business management, etc. The resources poured into those jobs can be put to better use.

And we can do all of this while working less and enjoying life more. Because a communist society produces for our needs and well-being, and not for creating more profits for the bosses, we can reduce the amount of working time each of us has to do. For that matter, depending on how well we can use technology to our advantage, we have the ability to calculate how much working time each of us will have to do in our lives in order to provide for all our needs throughout our lives.

Think of it! Retiring at age 40 and not having to worry about where your next meal is coming from, because you've already put in your share for society! Think of what you can do with all that time! If you wanted, you could go back to school and become a doctor, or learn how to paint or sculpt, or see the world. For that matter, you could spend your summers in moderate weather and your winters in warm areas. Why should the birds be the only ones with the sense to migrate when the weather changes?

Finally, we should point out that communism is a world system and society. We live in a world that is more and more unified by economics, culture and our own common interests. Communism looks to bring all of those who work for their living together in a common struggle to liberate ourselves from this rotten system. But, unlike those who call themselves "boss" and want to control the world, communism looks to join the people of the world together as brothers and sisters to build a better future for ourselves and our children.

So, does this sound like something you'd like to see? Well, that brings us to communism, the theory ... and the movement. Communism doesn't come about without the help of all of you. Because we have to sweep away a lot of garbage from this sick society, we need the help of millions to make it happen. "I get all of that," you might say, "but no one else will go for it." Really? Ask your friends, your neighbors and your co-workers what they think about what we say above. Chances are they would like to see this kind of new society, too.

How you choose to get involved is up to you, of course. There are all sorts of ways to help bring this society about. If you're not sure of what you can do, ask one of us. We can sit down and talk about what's possible. The important thing is that you get involved somehow. That's what communism is about: being an active part of creating your own future. Represent yourself! Join the fight for a communist future!
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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8/13/2011 5:13:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 4:27:13 PM, kohai wrote:
From revleft


What is Communism?

Without a doubt, you've probably heard about communism. And, also without a doubt, you've probably heard all sorts of horror stories about it — from your teachers, from the media, from politicians, even from your church pastor or preacher.

http://i201.photobucket.com...

They tried to scare you. They want to keep you from finding out for yourself. If you asked one authority figure for a second opinion, they usually told you to ask another authority figure. And if that didn't satisfy you, then they told you to read the history books they wrote for you.

Do you see a pattern here? The one person they will never tell you to talk to, however, is a communist. Why? Because a communist might go "off script" and tell you something they don't want you to hear.

So, what is communism? Well, there is communism, the theory, and communism, the society. Let's first deal with communism, the society.

To begin with, communism is a society without bosses or servants, without superiors or subordinates, without masters or slaves — in short, communism is a society without classes and the stress, conflict and antagonisms that go with the existence of classes. Contrary to the history they teach you, classes are a relatively new thing in the human experience, having been around for only about 25,000 of the last 5 million years of human existence.

OK I'm far from an anti-communist, but saying "it's only been around for 25,000 years" isn't very convincing.

Because it is a society without classes, communism is also a society where all aspects of society are developed and administered in common. That means not only the political system, but the economy, culture and social relations too. Can you imagine, having an equal voice, along with your co-workers, in deciding how conditions at your job would be determined? Or, having a say, along with your neighbors, in shaping how the city's budget will be spent?

Under the current paradigm this is useless, which is why I abandoned communism (at least for the current era of social development). It's not enough to just give workers the chance to dictate conditions at a job, when the job is miserable to begin with. Who is going to want to work in sweatshops, or at Mickey D's in the first place? What we need to do first is eliminate all the wasteful jobs/consumptive habits we have, and then we will be able to talk about utopia. I believe capitalism and communism would actually look pretty similar if we took this approach.

Democracy is a key element in the development of communism — but not the stale, formal "democracy" we are taught about in school; we are talking about democracy as a practice, a real-world tool that works for those who work.

Again, what we have now works best for what we have now. Direct democracy could work in a town-hall setting where communities aren't so large that it becomes too complex. There is an ideal size for a city.

As well, communism is a society without a state. Now, when we talk about a "state," we are not talking about councils and assemblies that debate issues and adopt policy. When we say "state," we mean the armed organizations that enforce "order" (the rulers' "order," that is), like the police and military.

"No police?!" Yes, no police. What are the police really for?

A: arresting black people. duh. What are we gonna do? Let them roll around with their gats everywhere they go smoking blunts?

Well, when you live in a society where goods and services are restricted to a few, you end up with the many in need. When you have so many in need, you need to maintain order. However, if you live in a society where the needs of everyone in society are met, what need is there for police? If everyone's basic needs — good food, decent housing, worthwhile education, etc. — are met, what basis is there for most of the crime in society?

Sure, there may be times here and there that may require some kind of investigation or enforcement unit, but those times would be relatively few and far between, and could easily be handled as they come up.

It is also the case that communism is a society without money. "Without money?!" Yes, without money. Why does money exist? Basically, it was invented so that one group of owners wouldn't get screwed by another set of owners. But, if you have a society where the factories and workplaces are owned in common, and we can sit down and plan out three months, six months or even a year in advance what we have to produce to provide all that we need, what point is there to having money?

Also, if we're all working together to produce what we need and administer our own affairs, we can cut out a lot of things we don't need. For example, we don't need all those layers of managers and officials that we pay (through our labor and the profits it creates) to tell us to work harder. Similarly, we don't need all of those professional politicians and bureaucrats in the government who do everything they can to convince us that our future should be in the hands of "professionals" who have no clue what we deal with on a daily basis. For that matter, we don't need all those worthless professions that exist only because we live in a profit-driven society, like advertising, marketing, business management, etc. The resources poured into those jobs can be put to better use.

And we can do all of this while working less and enjoying life more. Because a communist society produces for our needs and well-being, and not for creating more profits for the bosses, we can reduce the amount of working time each of us has to do. For that matter, depending on how well we can use technology to our advantage, we have the ability to calculate how much working time each of us will have to do in our lives in order to provide for all our needs throughout our lives.

Again, this is worthless without a change in consumptive habits. Saying we won't have to work as much is BS unless we're disciplining ourselves to resist greed.
Rob
kohai
Posts: 380
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8/13/2011 5:15:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 5:13:47 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/13/2011 4:27:13 PM, kohai wrote:
From revleft


What is Communism?

Without a doubt, you've probably heard about communism. And, also without a doubt, you've probably heard all sorts of horror stories about it — from your teachers, from the media, from politicians, even from your church pastor or preacher.

http://i201.photobucket.com...

They tried to scare you. They want to keep you from finding out for yourself. If you asked one authority figure for a second opinion, they usually told you to ask another authority figure. And if that didn't satisfy you, then they told you to read the history books they wrote for you.

Do you see a pattern here? The one person they will never tell you to talk to, however, is a communist. Why? Because a communist might go "off script" and tell you something they don't want you to hear.

So, what is communism? Well, there is communism, the theory, and communism, the society. Let's first deal with communism, the society.

To begin with, communism is a society without bosses or servants, without superiors or subordinates, without masters or slaves — in short, communism is a society without classes and the stress, conflict and antagonisms that go with the existence of classes. Contrary to the history they teach you, classes are a relatively new thing in the human experience, having been around for only about 25,000 of the last 5 million years of human existence.

OK I'm far from an anti-communist, but saying "it's only been around for 25,000 years" isn't very convincing.

Because it is a society without classes, communism is also a society where all aspects of society are developed and administered in common. That means not only the political system, but the economy, culture and social relations too. Can you imagine, having an equal voice, along with your co-workers, in deciding how conditions at your job would be determined? Or, having a say, along with your neighbors, in shaping how the city's budget will be spent?

Under the current paradigm this is useless, which is why I abandoned communism (at least for the current era of social development). It's not enough to just give workers the chance to dictate conditions at a job, when the job is miserable to begin with. Who is going to want to work in sweatshops, or at Mickey D's in the first place? What we need to do first is eliminate all the wasteful jobs/consumptive habits we have, and then we will be able to talk about utopia. I believe capitalism and communism would actually look pretty similar if we took this approach.

Democracy is a key element in the development of communism — but not the stale, formal "democracy" we are taught about in school; we are talking about democracy as a practice, a real-world tool that works for those who work.

Again, what we have now works best for what we have now. Direct democracy could work in a town-hall setting where communities aren't so large that it becomes too complex. There is an ideal size for a city.

As well, communism is a society without a state. Now, when we talk about a "state," we are not talking about councils and assemblies that debate issues and adopt policy. When we say "state," we mean the armed organizations that enforce "order" (the rulers' "order," that is), like the police and military.

"No police?!" Yes, no police. What are the police really for?

A: arresting black people. duh. What are we gonna do? Let them roll around with their gats everywhere they go smoking blunts?

Well, when you live in a society where goods and services are restricted to a few, you end up with the many in need. When you have so many in need, you need to maintain order. However, if you live in a society where the needs of everyone in society are met, what need is there for police? If everyone's basic needs — good food, decent housing, worthwhile education, etc. — are met, what basis is there for most of the crime in society?

Sure, there may be times here and there that may require some kind of investigation or enforcement unit, but those times would be relatively few and far between, and could easily be handled as they come up.

It is also the case that communism is a society without money. "Without money?!" Yes, without money. Why does money exist? Basically, it was invented so that one group of owners wouldn't get screwed by another set of owners. But, if you have a society where the factories and workplaces are owned in common, and we can sit down and plan out three months, six months or even a year in advance what we have to produce to provide all that we need, what point is there to having money?

Also, if we're all working together to produce what we need and administer our own affairs, we can cut out a lot of things we don't need. For example, we don't need all those layers of managers and officials that we pay (through our labor and the profits it creates) to tell us to work harder. Similarly, we don't need all of those professional politicians and bureaucrats in the government who do everything they can to convince us that our future should be in the hands of "professionals" who have no clue what we deal with on a daily basis. For that matter, we don't need all those worthless professions that exist only because we live in a profit-driven society, like advertising, marketing, business management, etc. The resources poured into those jobs can be put to better use.

And we can do all of this while working less and enjoying life more. Because a communist society produces for our needs and well-being, and not for creating more profits for the bosses, we can reduce the amount of working time each of us has to do. For that matter, depending on how well we can use technology to our advantage, we have the ability to calculate how much working time each of us will have to do in our lives in order to provide for all our needs throughout our lives.

Again, this is worthless without a change in consumptive habits. Saying we won't have to work as much is BS unless we're disciplining ourselves to resist greed.

Why do we work? We work because it is a social necessity.
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
ryan_thomas
Posts: 161
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8/13/2011 5:29:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 4:27:13 PM, kohai wrote:
From revleft


What is Communism?

Without a doubt, you've probably heard about communism. And, also without a doubt, you've probably heard all sorts of horror stories about it — from your teachers, from the media, from politicians, even from your church pastor or preacher.

They tried to scare you. They want to keep you from finding out for yourself. If you asked one authority figure for a second opinion, they usually told you to ask another authority figure. And if that didn't satisfy you, then they told you to read the history books they wrote for you.

Do you see a pattern here? The one person they will never tell you to talk to, however, is a communist. Why? Because a communist might go "off script" and tell you something they don't want you to hear.

So, what is communism? Well, there is communism, the theory, and communism, the society. Let's first deal with communism, the society.

To begin with, communism is a society without bosses or servants, without superiors or subordinates, without masters or slaves — in short, communism is a society without classes and the stress, conflict and antagonisms that go with the existence of classes. Contrary to the history they teach you, classes are a relatively new thing in the human experience, having been around for only about 25,000 of the last 5 million years of human existence.

"But," someone might say, "there are a lot more people alive today than there were back then." That's true. What's also true is that we are smarter, more conscious of our world and more technologically advanced than our ancestors. We really don't need someone standing over us, telling us what to do and when to do it. If necessary, we can work that out together, in common.

Because it is a society without classes, communism is also a society where all aspects of society are developed and administered in common. That means not only the political system, but the economy, culture and social relations too. Can you imagine, having an equal voice, along with your co-workers, in deciding how conditions at your job would be determined? Or, having a say, along with your neighbors, in shaping how the city's budget will be spent?

Democracy is a key element in the development of communism — but not the stale, formal "democracy" we are taught about in school; we are talking about democracy as a practice, a real-world tool that works for those who work.

As well, communism is a society without a state. Now, when we talk about a "state," we are not talking about councils and assemblies that debate issues and adopt policy. When we say "state," we mean the armed organizations that enforce "order" (the rulers' "order," that is), like the police and military.

"No police?!" Yes, no police. What are the police really for? Well, when you live in a society where goods and services are restricted to a few, you end up with the many in need. When you have so many in need, you need to maintain order. However, if you live in a society where the needs of everyone in society are met, what need is there for police? If everyone's basic needs — good food, decent housing, worthwhile education, etc. — are met, what basis is there for most of the crime in society?

Sure, there may be times here and there that may require some kind of investigation or enforcement unit, but those times would be relatively few and far between, and could easily be handled as they come up.

It is also the case that communism is a society without money. "Without money?!" Yes, without money. Why does money exist? Basically, it was invented so that one group of owners wouldn't get screwed by another set of owners. But, if you have a society where the factories and workplaces are owned in common, and we can sit down and plan out three months, six months or even a year in advance what we have to produce to provide all that we need, what point is there to having money?

Also, if we're all working together to produce what we need and administer our own affairs, we can cut out a lot of things we don't need. For example, we don't need all those layers of managers and officials that we pay (through our labor and the profits it creates) to tell us to work harder. Similarly, we don't need all of those professional politicians and bureaucrats in the government who do everything they can to convince us that our future should be in the hands of "professionals" who have no clue what we deal with on a daily basis. For that matter, we don't need all those worthless professions that exist only because we live in a profit-driven society, like advertising, marketing, business management, etc. The resources poured into those jobs can be put to better use.

And we can do all of this while working less and enjoying life more. Because a communist society produces for our needs and well-being, and not for creating more profits for the bosses, we can reduce the amount of working time each of us has to do. For that matter, depending on how well we can use technology to our advantage, we have the ability to calculate how much working time each of us will have to do in our lives in order to provide for all our needs throughout our lives.

Think of it! Retiring at age 40 and not having to worry about where your next meal is coming from, because you've already put in your share for society! Think of what you can do with all that time! If you wanted, you could go back to school and become a doctor, or learn how to paint or sculpt, or see the world. For that matter, you could spend your summers in moderate weather and your winters in warm areas. Why should the birds be the only ones with the sense to migrate when the weather changes?

Finally, we should point out that communism is a world system and society. We live in a world that is more and more unified by economics, culture and our own common interests. Communism looks to bring all of those who work for their living together in a common struggle to liberate ourselves from this rotten system. But, unlike those who call themselves "boss" and want to control the world, communism looks to join the people of the world together as brothers and sisters to build a better future for ourselves and our children.

So, does this sound like something you'd like to see? Well, that brings us to communism, the theory ... and the movement. Communism doesn't come about without the help of all of you. Because we have to sweep away a lot of garbage from this sick society, we need the help of millions to make it happen. "I get all of that," you might say, "but no one else will go for it." Really? Ask your friends, your neighbors and your co-workers what they think about what we say above. Chances are they would like to see this kind of new society, too.

How you choose to get involved is up to you, of course. There are all sorts of ways to help bring this society about. If you're not sure of what you can do, ask one of us. We can sit down and talk about what's possible. The important thing is that you get involved somehow. That's what communism is about: being an active part of creating your own future. Represent yourself! Join the fight for a communist future!

What kind of communist are you?
All Hail Lord Ryan!
kohai
Posts: 380
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8/13/2011 5:34:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Undecided. I'm leaning Leninist/Troskyist. I like the idea of a direct democracy (council communism) although that scares me.
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
ryan_thomas
Posts: 161
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8/13/2011 5:43:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 5:34:58 PM, kohai wrote:
Undecided. I'm leaning Leninist/Troskyist. I like the idea of a direct democracy (council communism) although that scares me.

Oh lol Troskyism is flawed. Stalin disproved him by building Socialism in one country. I'm a Marxist-Stalinist. :)
All Hail Lord Ryan!
kohai
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8/13/2011 5:51:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 5:43:43 PM, ryan_thomas wrote:
At 8/13/2011 5:34:58 PM, kohai wrote:
Undecided. I'm leaning Leninist/Troskyist. I like the idea of a direct democracy (council communism) although that scares me.

Oh lol Troskyism is flawed. Stalin disproved him by building Socialism in one country. I'm a Marxist-Stalinist. :)

I like Lenin, I don't agree with everything stalin did, though i understand it was important to save the ussr.
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/13/2011 5:52:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 4:27:13 PM, kohai wrote:
From revleft


What is Communism?

Without a doubt, you've probably heard about communism. And, also without a doubt, you've probably heard all sorts of horror stories about it — from your teachers, from the media, from politicians, even from your church pastor or preacher.

Actually, I have not heard horror stories about communism--at least any worth believing.

They tried to scare you. They want to keep you from finding out for yourself. If you asked one authority figure for a second opinion, they usually told you to ask another authority figure. And if that didn't satisfy you, then they told you to read the history books they wrote for you.

Do you see a pattern here? The one person they will never tell you to talk to, however, is a communist. Why? Because a communist might go "off script" and tell you something they don't want you to hear.

Again, in reality, I was actually directed by everybody to the Manifesto itself. Which I read.

So, what is communism? Well, there is communism, the theory, and communism, the society. Let's first deal with communism, the society.

To begin with, communism is a society without bosses or servants, without superiors or subordinates, without masters or slaves — in short, communism is a society without classes and the stress, conflict and antagonisms that go with the existence of classes. Contrary to the history they teach you, classes are a relatively new thing in the human experience, having been around for only about 25,000 of the last 5 million years of human existence.

I strongly disagree with this. In reality, logically, communism simply shifts the bourgeois class to the government, and the proletariat class to all the people. The government is in complete control of the means of production, and the population is the servant both to the government and to each other. The population works, only to provide the results of their labor to a government who only returns a portion which the government deems necessary for each person--self-ownership is effectively nill.

As well, communism is a society without a state. Now, when we talk about a "state," we are not talking about councils and assemblies that debate issues and adopt policy. When we say "state," we mean the armed organizations that enforce "order" (the rulers' "order," that is), like the police and military.

This is wrong as well. For a communistic society to actually work, totalitarian power must be placed in a dictatorial state. A communism would have all private property taken away (in case you were wondering, this is all form the Manifesto). And who would enforce the retrieval and redistribution of property? That's right, the dictatorship and its police.

Sure, there may be times here and there that may require some kind of investigation or enforcement unit, but those times would be relatively few and far between, and could easily be handled as they come up.

It is also the case that communism is a society without money. "Without money?!" Yes, without money. Why does money exist?

So people can exercise their self-ownership and acquire property that they wish, as well as to promote a stimulated economy.

I accidentally deleted the next paragraph, but it basically talked about politicians being removed. My response is that what kohai is promoting is more anarchism than communism as described in the Manifesto for the party.

And we can do all of this while working less and enjoying life more. Because a communist society produces for our needs and well-being, and not for creating more profits for the bosses, we can reduce the amount of working time each of us has to do. For that matter, depending on how well we can use technology to our advantage, we have the ability to calculate how much working time each of us will have to do in our lives in order to provide for all our needs throughout our lives.

Think of it! Retiring at age 40 and not having to worry about where your next meal is coming from, because you've already put in your share for society! Think of what you can do with all that time! If you wanted, you could go back to school and become a doctor, or learn how to paint or sculpt, or see the world. For that matter, you could spend your summers in moderate weather and your winters in warm areas. Why should the birds be the only ones with the sense to migrate when the weather changes?

I don't know what you're talking about with this. This sounds much more like propoganda than a true representation of communism.

Finally, we should point out that communism is a world system and society. We live in a world that is more and more unified by economics, culture and our own common interests. Communism looks to bring all of those who work for their living together in a common struggle to liberate ourselves from this rotten system. But, unlike those who call themselves "boss" and want to control the world, communism looks to join the people of the world together as brothers and sisters to build a better future for ourselves and our children.

So, does this sound like something you'd like to see? Well, that brings us to communism, the theory ... and the movement. Communism doesn't come about without the help of all of you. Because we have to sweep away a lot of garbage from this sick society, we need the help of millions to make it happen. "I get all of that," you might say, "but no one else will go for it." Really? Ask your friends, your neighbors and your co-workers what they think about what we say above. Chances are they would like to see this kind of new society, too.

How you choose to get involved is up to you, of course. There are all sorts of ways to help bring this society about. If you're not sure of what you can do, ask one of us. We can sit down and talk about what's possible. The important thing is that you get involved somehow. That's what communism is about: being an active part of creating your own future. Represent yourself! Join the fight for a communist future&

Overall, I find communism to be a highly undesirable system. It effectively renders individualism useless, allowing the government to become totalitarian.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
quarterexchange
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8/13/2011 6:20:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If communism was to be implemented "without a state", then communism wouldn't last for more than a few days, because then people would be free to be capitalists.
I don't discriminate....I hate everybody.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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8/13/2011 6:52:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 4:27:13 PM, kohai wrote:
So, what is communism? Well, there is communism, the theory, and communism, the society. Let's first deal with communism, the society.

To begin with, communism is a society without bosses or servants, without superiors or subordinates, without masters or slaves — in short, communism is a society without classes and the stress, conflict and antagonisms that go with the existence of classes. Contrary to the history they teach you, classes are a relatively new thing in the human experience, having been around for only about 25,000 of the last 5 million years of human existence.

Those 25,000 years also happen to be our most prosperous.

"But," someone might say, "there are a lot more people alive today than there were back then." That's true. What's also true is that we are smarter, more conscious of our world and more technologically advanced than our ancestors. We really don't need someone standing over us, telling us what to do and when to do it. If necessary, we can work that out together, in common.

That would cut into our efficiency. It isn't efficient if everyone must be made aware of every plan to cut costs for anything.

Because it is a society without classes, communism is also a society where all aspects of society are developed and administered in common. That means not only the political system, but the economy, culture and social relations too. Can you imagine, having an equal voice, along with your co-workers, in deciding how conditions at your job would be determined? Or, having a say, along with your neighbors, in shaping how the city's budget will be spent?

Can you imagine your neighbors telling you what you can and cannot put in your sandwich? Where you can and cannot build a seesaw on your own property? Whether or not you can use the resources developed to build a robot? It sounds like a beurocratic nightmare.

Democracy is a key element in the development of communism — but not the stale, formal "democracy" we are taught about in school; we are talking about democracy as a practice, a real-world tool that works for those who work.

But for what things will a majority decision be required, and for what things can I make my own decisions?

As well, communism is a society without a state. Now, when we talk about a "state," we are not talking about councils and assemblies that debate issues and adopt policy. When we say "state," we mean the armed organizations that enforce "order" (the rulers' "order," that is), like the police and military.

"No police?!" Yes, no police. What are the police really for? Well, when you live in a society where goods and services are restricted to a few, you end up with the many in need. When you have so many in need, you need to maintain order. However, if you live in a society where the needs of everyone in society are met, what need is there for police? If everyone's basic needs — good food, decent housing, worthwhile education, etc. — are met, what basis is there for most of the crime in society?

Sure, there may be times here and there that may require some kind of investigation or enforcement unit, but those times would be relatively few and far between, and could easily be handled as they come up.

So every time someone murders someone else out of spite or just for fun, you put together a voluntary police force with no actual legal powers? Its success rate would be pathetic. And if the town repeatedly denies me the right to use the wood of the tree I chopped down to build a table for myself, how will they stop me?

It is also the case that communism is a society without money. "Without money?!" Yes, without money. Why does money exist? Basically, it was invented so that one group of owners wouldn't get screwed by another set of owners. But, if you have a society where the factories and workplaces are owned in common, and we can sit down and plan out three months, six months or even a year in advance what we have to produce to provide all that we need, what point is there to having money?

Ah, yes, economic planning. It's so much less efficient than the free market, it isn't even funny. Such planning would probably allow inefficient methods to continue indefinitely; it takes a capitalist approach to cut costs and increase efficiency. Why should I increase the efficiency of my task if I see hardly any of the fruits of my labor?

Also, if we're all working together to produce what we need and administer our own affairs, we can cut out a lot of things we don't need. For example, we don't need all those layers of managers and officials that we pay (through our labor and the profits it creates) to tell us to work harder.

That's what you think managers do? No, they arrange for who does what where, and where materials are shipped, in order to increase efficiency.

For that matter, we don't need all those worthless professions that exist only because we live in a profit-driven society, like advertising, marketing, business management, etc. The resources poured into those jobs can be put to better use.

Businesses will always have to be managed; otherwise, they'll be laughably inefficient.

And we can do all of this while working less and enjoying life more. Because a communist society produces for our needs and well-being, and not for creating more profits for the bosses, we can reduce the amount of working time each of us has to do. For that matter, depending on how well we can use technology to our advantage, we have the ability to calculate how much working time each of us will have to do in our lives in order to provide for all our needs throughout our lives.

We cannot predict what will happen throughout our entire lives.

Think of it! Retiring at age 40 and not having to worry about where your next meal is coming from, because you've already put in your share for society!

And who will worry about it? Everyone else. Why should they have that burden? It's my meal; I should be responsible for it.

Think of what you can do with all that time! If you wanted, you could go back to school and become a doctor, or learn how to paint or sculpt, or see the world. For that matter, you could spend your summers in moderate weather and your winters in warm areas. Why should the birds be the only ones with the sense to migrate when the weather changes?

Wait, you'll implement communism throughout the entire world? So even though I've never contributed anything to a community in Oklahoma in my entire life, I can move there and demand that they take care of me if I've retired?

Finally, we should point out that communism is a world system and society. We live in a world that is more and more unified by economics, culture and our own common interests. Communism looks to bring all of those who work for their living together in a common struggle to liberate ourselves from this rotten system. But, unlike those who call themselves "boss" and want to control the world, communism looks to join the people of the world together as brothers and sisters to build a better future for ourselves and our children.

How the heck can a community in Canada and a community in New Zealand be part of the same system of communism? Will New Zealanders also have a say in everything I in Texas?

In short, your system makes blatantly false assumptions about efficiency and practicality.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/13/2011 7:52:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It is great to see that more and more people are standing up with a voice for world unity, no imbalanced class system (rich and poor), No monetary system, etc.

[Stands up and turns to the crowd]

"Hello to all my fellow humans! It seems that the world is filling with a unified mentality that is opposed to the current system of oppression, greed, money, and control over others. There seem to be many people heading in this direction. No matter what you want to call the movement, the numbers are growing. There will be those who will fight this new way of thinking. Those who will mock you and fight your cause. Those that will try to convince you otherwise and cling to the old ways. Keep your heads up my friends... Our cause is just and our reasons will prove themselves in due time. The world will change...for it must! The past system of money and imbalance is outdated and primitive! The upgrade of human development will be a reality. Do not let the disbelievers, skeptics, and traditionalists diminish your resolve! The time is here! The time is now!"

I felt it suitable to word this as a dramatic speech. It just felt right.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
ryan_thomas
Posts: 161
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8/13/2011 9:39:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 7:52:03 PM, Tiel wrote:
It is great to see that more and more people are standing up with a voice for world unity, no imbalanced class system (rich and poor), No monetary system, etc.

[Stands up and turns to the crowd]

"Hello to all my fellow humans! It seems that the world is filling with a unified mentality that is opposed to the current system of oppression, greed, money, and control over others. There seem to be many people heading in this direction. No matter what you want to call the movement, the numbers are growing. There will be those who will fight this new way of thinking. Those who will mock you and fight your cause. Those that will try to convince you otherwise and cling to the old ways. Keep your heads up my friends... Our cause is just and our reasons will prove themselves in due time. The world will change...for it must! The past system of money and imbalance is outdated and primitive! The upgrade of human development will be a reality. Do not let the disbelievers, skeptics, and traditionalists diminish your resolve! The time is here! The time is now!"

I felt it suitable to word this as a dramatic speech. It just felt right.

*claps hands* Well said. :)
All Hail Lord Ryan!
knick-knack
Posts: 125
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8/14/2011 2:20:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 6:20:00 PM, quarterexchange wrote:
If communism was to be implemented "without a state", then communism wouldn't last for more than a few days, because then people would be free to be capitalists.

I second that
John Hancock
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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8/17/2011 1:03:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 7:52:03 PM, Tiel wrote:
It is great to see that more and more people are standing up with a voice for world unity, no imbalanced class system (rich and poor), No monetary system, etc.

[Stands up and turns to the crowd]

"Hello to all my fellow humans! It seems that the world is filling with a unified mentality that is opposed to the current system of oppression, greed, money, and control over others. There seem to be many people heading in this direction. No matter what you want to call the movement, the numbers are growing. There will be those who will fight this new way of thinking. Those who will mock you and fight your cause. Those that will try to convince you otherwise and cling to the old ways. Keep your heads up my friends... Our cause is just and our reasons will prove themselves in due time. The world will change...for it must! The past system of money and imbalance is outdated and primitive! The upgrade of human development will be a reality. Do not let the disbelievers, skeptics, and traditionalists diminish your resolve! The time is here! The time is now!"

I felt it suitable to word this as a dramatic speech. It just felt right.

Hahahaha, you've got to be a troll!
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/17/2011 1:42:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 7:52:03 PM, Tiel wrote:
It is great to see that more and more people are standing up with a voice for world unity, no imbalanced class system (rich and poor), No monetary system, etc.

So....post-apocalyptic?
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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8/17/2011 3:46:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 1:42:04 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/13/2011 7:52:03 PM, Tiel wrote:
It is great to see that more and more people are standing up with a voice for world unity, no imbalanced class system (rich and poor), No monetary system, etc.

So....post-apocalyptic?

It's too bad for him that in a post apocalyptic situation ghetto people are more likely to survive but this is an completely different can of tuna.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/17/2011 4:02:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 4:27:13 PM, kohai wrote:
From revleft

lol at that part right there



What is Communism?

big C or little c?


Without a doubt, you've probably heard about communism. And, also without a doubt, you've probably heard all sorts of horror stories about it — from your teachers, from the media, from politicians, even from your church pastor or preacher.

media - yes, but takes everything they say with a grain of salt.
politicians - yes, but takes everything they say with a shot of tequila and a pinch of salt.
Teachers - Haven't heard a single horror story about communism in general, only specific example when a [distorted] form of communism was tried (also heard the about some specific examples when capitalism is done, too).
Pastor - no, they tend to avoid politics, at least on the west coast they do.


They tried to scare you. They want to keep you from finding out for yourself. If you asked one authority figure for a second opinion, they usually told you to ask another authority figure. And if that didn't satisfy you, then they told you to read the history books they wrote for you.

And communists try to scare you about capitalism, whats the point?


Do you see a pattern here? The one person they will never tell you to talk to, however, is a communist. Why? Because a communist might go "off script" and tell you something they don't want you to hear.

So, what is communism? Well, there is communism, the theory, and communism, the society. Let's first deal with communism, the society.

okay, lets get into this. Wait, out of char


To begin with, communism is a society without bosses or servants, without superiors or subordinates, without masters or slaves — in short, communism is a society without classes and the stress, conflict and antagonisms that go with the existence of classes. Contrary to the history they teach you, classes are a relatively new thing in the human experience, having been around for only about 25,000 of the last 5 million years of human existence.

"But," someone might say, "there are a lot more people alive today than there were back then." That's true. What's also true is that we are smarter, more conscious of our world and more technologically advanced than our ancestors. We really don't need someone standing over us, telling us what to do and when to do it. If necessary, we can work that out together, in common.

Because it is a society without classes, communism is also a society where all aspects of society are developed and administered in common. That means not only the political system, but the economy, culture and social relations too. Can you imagine, having an equal voice, along with your co-workers, in deciding how conditions at your job would be determined? Or, having a say, along with your neighbors, in shaping how the city's budget will be spent?

Democracy is a key element in the development of communism — but not the stale, formal "democracy" we are taught about in school; we are talking about democracy as a practice, a real-world tool that works for those who work.

As well, communism is a society without a state. Now, when we talk about a "state," we are not talking about councils and assemblies that debate issues and adopt policy. When we say "state," we mean the armed organizations that enforce "order" (the rulers' "order," that is), like the police and military.

"No police?!" Yes, no police. What are the police really for? Well, when you live in a society where goods and services are restricted to a few, you end up with the many in need. When you have so many in need, you need to maintain order. However, if you live in a society where the needs of everyone in society are met, what need is there for police? If everyone's basic needs — good food, decent housing, worthwhile education, etc. — are met, what basis is there for most of the crime in society?

Sure, there may be times here and there that may require some kind of investigation or enforcement unit, but those times would be relatively few and far between, and could easily be handled as they come up.

It is also the case that communism is a society without money. "Without money?!" Yes, without money. Why does money exist? Basically, it was invented so that one group of owners wouldn't get screwed by another set of owners. But, if you have a society where the factories and workplaces are owned in common, and we can sit down and plan out three months, six months or even a year in advance what we have to produce to provide all that we need, what point is there to having money?

Also, if we're all working together to produce what we need and administer our own affairs, we can cut out a lot of things we don't need. For example, we don't need all those layers of managers and officials that we pay (through our labor and the profits it creates) to tell us to work harder. Similarly, we don't need all of those professional politicians and bureaucrats in the government who do everything they can to convince us that our future should be in the hands of "professionals" who have no clue what we deal with on a daily basis. For that matter, we don't need all those worthless professions that exist only because we live in a profit-driven society, like advertising, marketing, business management, etc. The resources poured into those jobs can be put to better use.

And we can do all of this while working less and enjoying life more. Because a communist society produces for our needs and well-being, and not for creating more profits for the bosses, we can reduce the amount of working time each of us has to do. For that matter, depending on how well we can use technology to our advantage, we have the ability to calculate how much working time each of us will have to do in our lives in order to provide for all our needs throughout our lives.

Think of it! Retiring at age 40 and not having to worry about where your next meal is coming from, because you've already put in your share for society! Think of what you can do with all that time! If you wanted, you could go back to school and become a doctor, or learn how to paint or sculpt, or see the world. For that matter, you could spend your summers in moderate weather and your winters in warm areas. Why should the birds be the only ones with the sense to migrate when the weather changes?

Finally, we should point out that communism is a world system and society. We live in a world that is more and more unified by economics, culture and our own common interests. Communism looks to bring all of those who work for their living together in a common struggle to liberate ourselves from this rotten system. But, unlike those who call themselves "boss" and want to control the world, communism looks to join the people of the world together as brothers and sisters to build a better future for ourselves and our children.

So, does this sound like something you'd like to see? Well, that brings us to communism, the theory ... and the movement. Communism doesn't come about without the help of all of you. Because we have to sweep away a lot of garbage from this sick society, we need the help of millions to make it happen. "I get all of that," you might say, "but no one else will go for it." Really? Ask your friends, your neighbors and your co-workers what they think about what we say above. Chances are they would like to see this kind of new society, too.

How you choose to get involved is up to you, of course. There are all sorts of ways to help bring this society about. If you're not sure of what you can do, ask one of us. We can sit down and talk about what's possible. The important thing is that you get involved somehow. That's what communism is about: being an active part of creating your own future. Represent yourself! Join the fight for a communist future!
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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8/17/2011 4:12:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 4:02:46 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
And that is why you don't make OPs too long.

Where is Charleslb?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/17/2011 4:17:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
what basis is there for most of the crime in society?

A man catches his wife in bed with another man so he shoots him. People get drunk at a bar and get in a fight. Kids that just enjoy breaking things go and break things. Bob believes he works harder than his neighbor and so should have more stuff than his neighbor, so he goes and steals stuff. etc.

Can you imagine, having an equal voice, along with your co-workers, in deciding how conditions at your job would be determined? Or, having a say, along with your neighbors, in shaping how the city's budget will be spent?

When will people actually work to make stuff? Forming a budget takes a lot of time to dig into each item to find out,
1) if it is needed.
2) to what degree is it needed.
3) how can it most efficiently be done.
4) balancing that with the hundreds of other things in the budget.

You're going to end up with massive amounts of people not willing to dedicate the time and effort into learning all the budget facts and so making poorly informed votes.

An alternative solution would be to have something like a jury selection as the budget commitee.

what point is there to having money?

Money is used to make transactions work more efficiently. While the government (or governing body, whatever you want to call it) may decide to ration out the reasources, they are likely not going to ration down to every single item produced (that would be a logistics and beauracratic nightmare). Instead, they'll ration out the imporant things to ensure that everyone is taken care of, and everything produced above some magic line that is deemed the "where everyone is good enough" line can simply be bought and sold to whoever happens to want them, and money makes this easier.

This will happen regardless. If the government gives me all my stuff (in exchange for my work), anything that they give me that I don't really want, I'm going to try to trade away, and anything that I want that I didn't really get, I'm going to try to trade for. That is going to happen, unless you find a way to brain wash people's wants and desires.

The problem with this idea, is that everyone in that society needs to be on the same page. And that is going to be the main problem, some people don't do marketing because it makes them lots of money, they do it because they enjoy that work, but now the work they enjoy is going to be taken away, and they are going to be put on a factory floor, that doesn't sound like something that many people would be happy with.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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8/17/2011 5:46:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 4:27:13 PM, kohai wrote:
From revleft


What is Communism?

Without a doubt, you've probably heard about communism. And, also without a doubt, you've probably heard all sorts of horror stories about it — from your teachers, from the media, from politicians, even from your church pastor or preacher.

They tried to scare you. They want to keep you from finding out for yourself. If you asked one authority figure for a second opinion, they usually told you to ask another authority figure. And if that didn't satisfy you, then they told you to read the history books they wrote for you.

Do you see a pattern here? The one person they will never tell you to talk to, however, is a communist. Why? Because a communist might go "off script" and tell you something they don't want you to hear.

So, what is communism? Well, there is communism, the theory, and communism, the society. Let's first deal with communism, the society.

To begin with, communism is a society without bosses or servants, without superiors or subordinates, without masters or slaves — in short, communism is a society without classes and the stress, conflict and antagonisms that go with the existence of classes. Contrary to the history they teach you, classes are a relatively new thing in the human experience, having been around for only about 25,000 of the last 5 million years of human existence.

"But," someone might say, "there are a lot more people alive today than there were back then." That's true. What's also true is that we are smarter, more conscious of our world and more technologically advanced than our ancestors. We really don't need someone standing over us, telling us what to do and when to do it. If necessary, we can work that out together, in common.

Because it is a society without classes, communism is also a society where all aspects of society are developed and administered in common. That means not only the political system, but the economy, culture and social relations too. Can you imagine, having an equal voice, along with your co-workers, in deciding how conditions at your job would be determined? Or, having a say, along with your neighbors, in shaping how the city's budget will be spent?

Democracy is a key element in the development of communism — but not the stale, formal "democracy" we are taught about in school; we are talking about democracy as a practice, a real-world tool that works for those who work.

As well, communism is a society without a state. Now, when we talk about a "state," we are not talking about councils and assemblies that debate issues and adopt policy. When we say "state," we mean the armed organizations that enforce "order" (the rulers' "order," that is), like the police and military.

"No police?!" Yes, no police. What are the police really for? Well, when you live in a society where goods and services are restricted to a few, you end up with the many in need. When you have so many in need, you need to maintain order. However, if you live in a society where the needs of everyone in society are met, what need is there for police? If everyone's basic needs — good food, decent housing, worthwhile education, etc. — are met, what basis is there for most of the crime in society?

Sure, there may be times here and there that may require some kind of investigation or enforcement unit, but those times would be relatively few and far between, and could easily be handled as they come up.

It is also the case that communism is a society without money. "Without money?!" Yes, without money. Why does money exist? Basically, it was invented so that one group of owners wouldn't get screwed by another set of owners. But, if you have a society where the factories and workplaces are owned in common, and we can sit down and plan out three months, six months or even a year in advance what we have to produce to provide all that we need, what point is there to having money?

Also, if we're all working together to produce what we need and administer our own affairs, we can cut out a lot of things we don't need. For example, we don't need all those layers of managers and officials that we pay (through our labor and the profits it creates) to tell us to work harder. Similarly, we don't need all of those professional politicians and bureaucrats in the government who do everything they can to convince us that our future should be in the hands of "professionals" who have no clue what we deal with on a daily basis. For that matter, we don't need all those worthless professions that exist only because we live in a profit-driven society, like advertising, marketing, business management, etc. The resources poured into those jobs can be put to better use.

And we can do all of this while working less and enjoying life more. Because a communist society produces for our needs and well-being, and not for creating more profits for the bosses, we can reduce the amount of working time each of us has to do. For that matter, depending on how well we can use technology to our advantage, we have the ability to calculate how much working time each of us will have to do in our lives in order to provide for all our needs throughout our lives.

Think of it! Retiring at age 40 and not having to worry about where your next meal is coming from, because you've already put in your share for society! Think of what you can do with all that time! If you wanted, you could go back to school and become a doctor, or learn how to paint or sculpt, or see the world. For that matter, you could spend your summers in moderate weather and your winters in warm areas. Why should the birds be the only ones with the sense to migrate when the weather changes?

Finally, we should point out that communism is a world system and society. We live in a world that is more and more unified by economics, culture and our own common interests. Communism looks to bring all of those who work for their living together in a common struggle to liberate ourselves from this rotten system. But, unlike those who call themselves "boss" and want to control the world, communism looks to join the people of the world together as brothers and sisters to build a better future for ourselves and our children.

So, does this sound like something you'd like to see? Well, that brings us to communism, the theory ... and the movement. Communism doesn't come about without the help of all of you. Because we have to sweep away a lot of garbage from this sick society, we need the help of millions to make it happen. "I get all of that," you might say, "but no one else will go for it." Really? Ask your friends, your neighbors and your co-workers what they think about what we say above. Chances are they would like to see this kind of new society, too.

How you choose to get involved is up to you, of course. There are all sorts of ways to help bring this society about. If you're not sure of what you can do, ask one of us. We can sit down and talk about what's possible. The important thing is that you get involved somehow. That's what communism is about: being an active part of creating your own future. Represent yourself! Join the fight for a communist future!

Rather than knowing what it is, It is more important to know the history. In all cases where it was tried it lead to mass genocide. All roads lead to communism except capitalism. Socialism, fascism Marxism are all just candy coated or different versions of communism. The state rules the people by force or proxy. The people work for the state, just like here. US govt doesn't work for you you work for it. It decides how much money you will keep it decides how you will run business. Not the other way around like with capitalism
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/17/2011 7:22:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 5:46:24 PM, sadolite wrote:
Rather than knowing what it is, It is more important to know the history. In all cases where it was tried it lead to mass genocide. All roads lead to communism except capitalism. Socialism, fascism Marxism are all just candy coated or different versions of communism. The state rules the people by force or proxy. The people work for the state, just like here. US govt doesn't work for you you work for it. It decides how much money you will keep it decides how you will run business. Not the other way around like Capitalism.

Accept communism as described has not been tried, so there is no history to look back on. If you want to pin the failures of everything that falsely claims to be communism on to the tag of communism, then you must logically also pin all the failures of everything that falsely claims to be capitalism on to the tag of capitalism.

All in all, that is a failed method of viewing things, because it judges them not as they are, but as others have falsely claimed them to be.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/19/2011 5:05:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Communism is a good thing. Though eve since it was invented it has never been implemented properly. Though human nature screws up every system of order that we design in the effort to control our societies in a justified and organized way.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
quarterexchange
Posts: 1,549
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8/19/2011 8:00:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 5:05:25 PM, Lionheart wrote:
Communism is a good thing. Though eve since it was invented it has never been implemented properly. Though human nature screws up every system of order that we design in the effort to control our societies in a justified and organized way.

It's never been implemented properly because it can't be implemented. You can't alter human nature with different government/economic systems.
I don't discriminate....I hate everybody.
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/19/2011 8:09:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 8:00:08 PM, quarterexchange wrote:
At 8/19/2011 5:05:25 PM, Lionheart wrote:
Communism is a good thing. Though eve since it was invented it has never been implemented properly. Though human nature screws up every system of order that we design in the effort to control our societies in a justified and organized way.

It's never been implemented properly because it can't be implemented. You can't alter human nature with different government/economic systems.

I agree. That's why I don't advocate it anymore. I think it is a good thing, but true communism is no more possible than true anarchy.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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8/19/2011 8:20:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Communism can be done and it can be done correctly. All it takes is the right group of people and an adequate amount of resource potential to fill the need of that population. Human nature can be different. If one human can think in a way that reflects true communism and live it, all people could potentially think in such a way if they chose to.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Joseph_Mengele
Posts: 388
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8/19/2011 11:50:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 5:43:43 PM, ryan_thomas wrote:
At 8/13/2011 5:34:58 PM, kohai wrote:
Undecided. I'm leaning Leninist/Troskyist. I like the idea of a direct democracy (council communism) although that scares me.

Oh lol Troskyism is flawed. Stalin disproved him by building Socialism in one country. I'm a Marxist-Stalinist. :)

I will be willing to debate with you that Fascism-Nazism is more humanitarian and works more efficiently for the benefit of society than Marxist-Stalinism.
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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8/19/2011 11:52:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 8:20:02 PM, Tiel wrote:
Communism can be done and it can be done correctly. All it takes is the right group of people and an adequate amount of resource potential to fill the need of that population. Human nature can be different. If one human can think in a way that reflects true communism and live it, all people could potentially think in such a way if they chose to.

Any "ism" can be done and done correctly if you have the right group of people and an adequate amount of resource potential to fill the need of that population.

so, what's new?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
Joseph_Mengele
Posts: 388
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8/19/2011 11:56:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 8:20:02 PM, Tiel wrote:
Communism can be done and it can be done correctly. All it takes is the right group of people and an adequate amount of resource potential to fill the need of that population. Human nature can be different. If one human can think in a way that reflects true communism and live it, all people could potentially think in such a way if they chose to.

How can Commusim be done "correctly"? The problem is there is never the "right group of people". Humans in nature and concept are never "right", there are always going to be flaws.

Look at Stalin and Mao Zedong. They tried implementing communism and while it may have been percepted to be succesful, they actually accomplished mass-murder and killing their own citizens instead.