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Conscientious Objection

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/24/2011 2:21:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
War is created by government yet executed by the people. If ever a greater injustice thrived in such perpetual existence, I have not heard of it. As civilization has evolved, democracy has spread and developed, and the freedom of all people has been more and more observed. Though, there is one injustice, as old as time, that is not popularly addressed: Our right to refuse to fight.

With that said, I find it to be of tremendous importance and an immeasurably powerful step in the institution of global justice to legalize Conscientious Objection in all countries.

A soldier cannot be forced to deny his conscience and mindlessly obey the powers that be.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Solomon_Kane
Posts: 29
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8/24/2011 8:18:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Actually, doesn't conscientious objection apply only to civilians?

With a soldier, the issue is more objective. He or she signed up for combat. It seems only fitting that a deserter, or someone who refuses to do that job under fire, would be charged with something at least approximating dereliction of duty, and punished accordingly.

If an entire army decided not to fight, the risk to lives and sovereignty would be foregone. For myself, if you didn't want to fight, you shouldn't have signed up for it.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/24/2011 12:54:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/24/2011 8:18:48 AM, Solomon_Kane wrote:
Actually, doesn't conscientious objection apply only to civilians?

With a soldier, the issue is more objective. He or she signed up for combat. It seems only fitting that a deserter, or someone who refuses to do that job under fire, would be charged with something at least approximating dereliction of duty, and punished accordingly.

If an entire army decided not to fight, the risk to lives and sovereignty would be foregone. For myself, if you didn't want to fight, you shouldn't have signed up for it.

How do we deal with this in the case of the draft? At that point, no one really wants to fight.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/24/2011 12:58:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/24/2011 2:21:38 AM, 000ike wrote:
War is created by government yet executed by the people. If ever a greater injustice thrived in such perpetual existence, I have not heard of it. As civilization has evolved, democracy has spread and developed, and the freedom of all people has been more and more observed. Though, there is one injustice, as old as time, that is not popularly addressed: Our right to refuse to fight.

With that said, I find it to be of tremendous importance and an immeasurably powerful step in the institution of global justice to legalize Conscientious Objection in all countries.

A soldier cannot be forced to deny his conscience and mindlessly obey the powers that be.

I'm pretty sure that's not conscientious objection as it has been applied in the past.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/24/2011 1:54:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/24/2011 8:18:48 AM, Solomon_Kane wrote:
Actually, doesn't conscientious objection apply only to civilians?

With a soldier, the issue is more objective. He or she signed up for combat. It seems only fitting that a deserter, or someone who refuses to do that job under fire, would be charged with something at least approximating dereliction of duty, and punished accordingly.

If an entire army decided not to fight, the risk to lives and sovereignty would be foregone. For myself, if you didn't want to fight, you shouldn't have signed up for it.

To complicate matters further Soldiers also sign up to accept the rules of war... at least most western soldiers do. Soldiers are bound to ignore illegal orders.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/24/2011 2:46:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
How do we deal with this in the case of the draft?
We abolish it like any other slavery of innocents.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Tim_Spin
Posts: 446
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8/24/2011 3:55:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/24/2011 2:46:05 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
How do we deal with this in the case of the draft?
We abolish it like any other slavery of innocents.

13th ammendment anyone?
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/24/2011 3:56:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I find it to be of tremendous importance and an immeasurably powerful step in the institution of global justice to legalize Conscientious Objection in all countries.

A soldier cannot be forced to deny his conscience and mindlessly obey the powers that be.:

The United States recognizes Conscientious Objectors. That's one of the first questions they ask you in screening, and if you say yes, you won't get in the military. The US doesn't have a conscript army like most countries, they have an all voluntary force.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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8/26/2011 5:55:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Very few of us would voluntarily kill another human being, but when your country is threatened, you have a duty, as a citizen, to take up arms to defend your homeland and your fellow countrymen.

It seems to me that conchies are unwilling to discharge that duty, safe in the knowledge that the vast majority of men and women will, no matter how reluctantly, put their lives on the line in defence of their country.

But what if everyone in Britain had decided they objected to violence and no-showed when the balloon went up at the beginning of the last world war?

The fact is we would have been overrun by Nazis quicker than you could say ‘hey man, make love not war' and now we'd all be travelling to work in fast, comfortable trains that run on time or in powerful, yet efficient, BMWs and Mercedes on congestion-free Autobahns with the security of knowing that the country's stable and prosperous economy would provide full employment not only for us but also for our children….just a moment…
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