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The Great Pyramid of Cholula

Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/26/2011 5:21:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This Pyramid is the largest in the world and a very interesting place. What are your thoughts on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/26/2011 5:30:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 5:21:41 PM, Lionheart wrote:
This Pyramid is the largest in the world and a very interesting place. What are your thoughts on this.:

It's cool.

The end.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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8/26/2011 5:33:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's basically the chode of pyramids
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/26/2011 8:23:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The Pyramid is an awesome structure. I wish they could excavate it completely but they can't because the church has become a catholic pilgrimage site. I think the church need to go. The religion which was associated with the construction and usage of the pyramid was in no way Catholic and the church should hold no sway over the decision to completely excavate the site.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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8/26/2011 9:07:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 8:23:30 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I think the church need to go.

We could have really used you, say, 500 years ago :)

You could have saved some natives a lot of trouble.
Rob
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/26/2011 9:24:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 9:07:46 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/26/2011 8:23:30 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I think the church need to go.

We could have really used you, say, 500 years ago :)

You could have saved some natives a lot of trouble.

I wish I was there during many eras to support the ancient people. I am bitter at many things in the modern era. The ancients were more in tune with earth and I fin their art and culture more in alignment with my preference. The modern era is mostly about function and purpose, not beauty or majesty. I wish that I would have been there 500 years ago, because I would have lead a revolt to burn the frame of that church down while it was still being built.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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8/26/2011 10:18:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 9:24:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/26/2011 9:07:46 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/26/2011 8:23:30 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I think the church need to go.

We could have really used you, say, 500 years ago :)

You could have saved some natives a lot of trouble.

I wish I was there during many eras to support the ancient people. I am bitter at many things in the modern era. The ancients were more in tune with earth and I fin their art and culture more in alignment with my preference. The modern era is mostly about function and purpose, not beauty or majesty. I wish that I would have been there 500 years ago, because I would have lead a revolt to burn the frame of that church down while it was still being built.

Well if you could give them smallpox vaccine and guns alongside functional governments that do not go out of their way to piss off neighboring tribes you may succeed, if I went back in time I would have simply made sure China conquered the world first, ensured native Africans defense of territory, and I would have toppled the Aztec and Inca to replace them with better leaders and diplomats.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
seraine
Posts: 734
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8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 9:24:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/26/2011 9:07:46 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/26/2011 8:23:30 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I think the church need to go.

We could have really used you, say, 500 years ago :)

You could have saved some natives a lot of trouble.

I wish I was there during many eras to support the ancient people. I am bitter at many things in the modern era. The ancients were more in tune with earth and I fin their art and culture more in alignment with my preference. The modern era is mostly about function and purpose, not beauty or majesty.

I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

I wish that I would have been there 500 years ago, because I would have lead a revolt to burn the frame of that church down while it was still being built.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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8/27/2011 8:34:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 9:24:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/26/2011 9:07:46 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/26/2011 8:23:30 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I think the church need to go.

We could have really used you, say, 500 years ago :)

You could have saved some natives a lot of trouble.

I wish I was there during many eras to support the ancient people. I am bitter at many things in the modern era. The ancients were more in tune with earth and I fin their art and culture more in alignment with my preference. The modern era is mostly about function and purpose, not beauty or majesty. I wish that I would have been there 500 years ago, because I would have lead a revolt to burn the frame of that church down while it was still being built.

You still can burn some churches if you're so inclined...

Most people seem to look at the passage of time as "progress." This is based mostly on technological advancement, cultural development, and life expectancy. But if humanity could be given an overall value, based on all relevent factors, would that value actually be increasing? I would argue that it isn't.
Rob
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?
Rob
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/27/2011 3:38:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?

I would have to say that you are right and I'm glad to see someone sees things the same way as I do. Native Americans show that humans can live at one with the earth for thousands of years without destroying it. Native Americans and indigenous people in general, gave us a glimpse of ideals and culture that never needed to be extinguished. There are ways to keep civilization in harmony with the earth, while still advancing certain concepts, philosophies, and technology.

- Did the Native Americans commit genocide? No.

- Did the Native Americans create world war? No.

- Did the Native Americans have slaves and conquer other civilizations? No.

- Did the Native Americans create guns, explosives, biological weapons, and WMDs? No.

- Did the Native Americans pollute and destroy the land? No.

- Did the Native Americans bring any species to the point of extinction? No.

You tell me what the Native Americans did that makes that gives us the justification to look down on them? If you ask me... We are the tyrants.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/27/2011 3:42:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 3:38:06 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?

I would have to say that you are right and I'm glad to see someone sees things the same way as I do. The Indigenous people show that humans can live at one with the earth for thousands of years without destroying it. Indigenous people gave us a glimpse of ideals and culture that never needed to be extinguished. There are ways to keep civilization in harmony with the earth, while still advancing certain concepts, philosophies, and technology.

- Did the Indigenous people commit genocide? No.

- Did the Indigenous people create world war? No.

- Did the Indigenous people have slaves and conquer other civilizations? No.

- Did the Indigenous people create guns, explosives, biological weapons, and WMDs? No.

- Did the Indigenous people pollute and destroy the land? No.

- Did the Indigenous people bring any species to the point of extinction? No.

You tell me what the Indigenous people did that makes that gives us "modern civilized people" the justification to look down on them? If you ask me... We are the tyrants.

I thought I was in the Native American culture forum. I fixed it.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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8/27/2011 3:58:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 3:38:06 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?

I would have to say that you are right and I'm glad to see someone sees things the same way as I do. Native Americans show that humans can live at one with the earth for thousands of years without destroying it. Native Americans and indigenous people in general, gave us a glimpse of ideals and culture that never needed to be extinguished. There are ways to keep civilization in harmony with the earth, while still advancing certain concepts, philosophies, and technology.

- Did the Native Americans commit genocide? No.


Well the Aztec more or less did.

- Did the Native Americans create world war? No.

- Did the Native Americans have slaves and conquer other civilizations? No.


See Aztecs.

- Did the Native Americans create guns, explosives, biological weapons, and WMDs? No.

- Did the Native Americans pollute and destroy the land? No.

- Did the Native Americans bring any species to the point of extinction? No.

You tell me what the Native Americans did that makes that gives us the justification to look down on them? If you ask me... We are the tyrants.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/27/2011 4:17:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 3:58:31 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:38:06 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?

I would have to say that you are right and I'm glad to see someone sees things the same way as I do. Native Americans show that humans can live at one with the earth for thousands of years without destroying it. Native Americans and indigenous people in general, gave us a glimpse of ideals and culture that never needed to be extinguished. There are ways to keep civilization in harmony with the earth, while still advancing certain concepts, philosophies, and technology.

- Did the Native Americans commit genocide? No.


Well the Aztec more or less did.

No, not really.

- Did the Native Americans create world war? No.

- Did the Native Americans have slaves and conquer other civilizations? No.


See Aztecs.

I know a good amount about the Aztec time period.

- Did the Native Americans create guns, explosives, biological weapons, and WMDs? No.

- Did the Native Americans pollute and destroy the land? No.

- Did the Native Americans bring any species to the point of extinction? No.

You tell me what the Native Americans did that makes that gives us the justification to look down on them? If you ask me... We are the tyrants.

You claim that the Aztec held a civilization that committed some of these things, yet you do not make the specific claims. What are you claiming exactly? Be more clear and I request some form of evidence in support of your claim. Even if the evidence is not solid.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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8/27/2011 4:53:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 4:17:48 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:58:31 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:38:06 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?

I would have to say that you are right and I'm glad to see someone sees things the same way as I do. Native Americans show that humans can live at one with the earth for thousands of years without destroying it. Native Americans and indigenous people in general, gave us a glimpse of ideals and culture that never needed to be extinguished. There are ways to keep civilization in harmony with the earth, while still advancing certain concepts, philosophies, and technology.

- Did the Native Americans commit genocide? No.


Well the Aztec more or less did.

No, not really.

- Did the Native Americans create world war? No.

- Did the Native Americans have slaves and conquer other civilizations? No.


See Aztecs.

I know a good amount about the Aztec time period.

- Did the Native Americans create guns, explosives, biological weapons, and WMDs? No.

- Did the Native Americans pollute and destroy the land? No.

- Did the Native Americans bring any species to the point of extinction? No.

You tell me what the Native Americans did that makes that gives us the justification to look down on them? If you ask me... We are the tyrants.

You claim that the Aztec held a civilization that committed some of these things, yet you do not make the specific claims. What are you claiming exactly? Be more clear and I request some form of evidence in support of your claim. Even if the evidence is not solid.

http://www.localhistories.org...
They were conquerors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
They did keep slaves.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Many of their Tributary States were dissatisfied with the Aztecs and led to many of them allying with the Spaniards to destroy the Aztec Empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
They used war to capture entire tribes in order to sacrifice them to their gods.

I know quite a bit about ancient history as well.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/27/2011 5:08:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 4:53:19 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 4:17:48 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:58:31 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:38:06 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?

I would have to say that you are right and I'm glad to see someone sees things the same way as I do. Native Americans show that humans can live at one with the earth for thousands of years without destroying it. Native Americans and indigenous people in general, gave us a glimpse of ideals and culture that never needed to be extinguished. There are ways to keep civilization in harmony with the earth, while still advancing certain concepts, philosophies, and technology.

- Did the Native Americans commit genocide? No.


Well the Aztec more or less did.

No, not really.

- Did the Native Americans create world war? No.

- Did the Native Americans have slaves and conquer other civilizations? No.


See Aztecs.

I know a good amount about the Aztec time period.

- Did the Native Americans create guns, explosives, biological weapons, and WMDs? No.

- Did the Native Americans pollute and destroy the land? No.

- Did the Native Americans bring any species to the point of extinction? No.

You tell me what the Native Americans did that makes that gives us the justification to look down on them? If you ask me... We are the tyrants.

You claim that the Aztec held a civilization that committed some of these things, yet you do not make the specific claims. What are you claiming exactly? Be more clear and I request some form of evidence in support of your claim. Even if the evidence is not solid.

http://www.localhistories.org...
They were conquerors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
They did keep slaves.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Many of their Tributary States were dissatisfied with the Aztecs and led to many of them allying with the Spaniards to destroy the Aztec Empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
They used war to capture entire tribes in order to sacrifice them to their gods.

I know quite a bit about ancient history as well.


You obviously don't know as much about history as you think. All you have done is post some links and videos. You don't know much of anything on your own at all by the looks of it.

Why don't you actually make an actual argument instead of posting a bunch of videos and links?

In my opinion you have no idea what you are talking about and your argument style is that of a lazy coward. I will debate you on the subject.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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8/27/2011 5:17:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 5:08:13 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 4:53:19 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 4:17:48 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:58:31 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:38:06 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?

I would have to say that you are right and I'm glad to see someone sees things the same way as I do. Native Americans show that humans can live at one with the earth for thousands of years without destroying it. Native Americans and indigenous people in general, gave us a glimpse of ideals and culture that never needed to be extinguished. There are ways to keep civilization in harmony with the earth, while still advancing certain concepts, philosophies, and technology.

- Did the Native Americans commit genocide? No.


Well the Aztec more or less did.

No, not really.

- Did the Native Americans create world war? No.

- Did the Native Americans have slaves and conquer other civilizations? No.


See Aztecs.

I know a good amount about the Aztec time period.

- Did the Native Americans create guns, explosives, biological weapons, and WMDs? No.

- Did the Native Americans pollute and destroy the land? No.

- Did the Native Americans bring any species to the point of extinction? No.

You tell me what the Native Americans did that makes that gives us the justification to look down on them? If you ask me... We are the tyrants.

You claim that the Aztec held a civilization that committed some of these things, yet you do not make the specific claims. What are you claiming exactly? Be more clear and I request some form of evidence in support of your claim. Even if the evidence is not solid.

http://www.localhistories.org...
They were conquerors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
They did keep slaves.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Many of their Tributary States were dissatisfied with the Aztecs and led to many of them allying with the Spaniards to destroy the Aztec Empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
They used war to capture entire tribes in order to sacrifice them to their gods.

I know quite a bit about ancient history as well.



You obviously don't know as much about history as you think. All you have done is post some links and videos. You don't know much of anything on your own at all by the looks of it.

Why don't you actually make an actual argument instead of posting a bunch of videos and links?

In my opinion you have no idea what you are talking about and your argument style is that of a lazy coward. I will debate you on the subject.

Somebody is awfully defensive. Did you read the sources that I have used to site evidence to my arguments? The Aztecs created enemies within their own lands by overtaxing nations which they had subjugated, these natives will then aid the Conquistadors in the conquest of the Aztecs. Also the Aztecs would raid the subdued peoples and take their young to be sacrificed. The Aztecs [alongside their other allies considering it was an triple alliance and not an singular empire as one might think] oppressed others with their military might and they even kept slaves [which sources cited prior would show you] that were taken from said peoples. My posts have been proven, it is time for you to prove yours.

Two more sources.
http://www.watertown.k12.ma.us...
http://www.aztec-history.com...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/27/2011 5:32:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 5:17:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 5:08:13 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 4:53:19 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 4:17:48 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:58:31 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:38:06 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?

I would have to say that you are right and I'm glad to see someone sees things the same way as I do. Native Americans show that humans can live at one with the earth for thousands of years without destroying it. Native Americans and indigenous people in general, gave us a glimpse of ideals and culture that never needed to be extinguished. There are ways to keep civilization in harmony with the earth, while still advancing certain concepts, philosophies, and technology.

- Did the Native Americans commit genocide? No.


Well the Aztec more or less did.

No, not really.

- Did the Native Americans create world war? No.

- Did the Native Americans have slaves and conquer other civilizations? No.


See Aztecs.

I know a good amount about the Aztec time period.

- Did the Native Americans create guns, explosives, biological weapons, and WMDs? No.

- Did the Native Americans pollute and destroy the land? No.

- Did the Native Americans bring any species to the point of extinction? No.

You tell me what the Native Americans did that makes that gives us the justification to look down on them? If you ask me... We are the tyrants.

You claim that the Aztec held a civilization that committed some of these things, yet you do not make the specific claims. What are you claiming exactly? Be more clear and I request some form of evidence in support of your claim. Even if the evidence is not solid.

http://www.localhistories.org...
They were conquerors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
They did keep slaves.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Many of their Tributary States were dissatisfied with the Aztecs and led to many of them allying with the Spaniards to destroy the Aztec Empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
They used war to capture entire tribes in order to sacrifice them to their gods.

I know quite a bit about ancient history as well.



You obviously don't know as much about history as you think. All you have done is post some links and videos. You don't know much of anything on your own at all by the looks of it.

Why don't you actually make an actual argument instead of posting a bunch of videos and links?

In my opinion you have no idea what you are talking about and your argument style is that of a lazy coward. I will debate you on the subject.

Somebody is awfully defensive. Did you read the sources that I have used to site evidence to my arguments? The Aztecs created enemies within their own lands by overtaxing nations which they had subjugated, these natives will then aid the Conquistadors in the conquest of the Aztecs. Also the Aztecs would raid the subdued peoples and take their young to be sacrificed. The Aztecs [alongside their other allies considering it was an triple alliance and not an singular empire as one might think] oppressed others with their military might and they even kept slaves [which sources cited prior would show you] that were taken from said peoples. My posts have been proven, it is time for you to prove yours.

Two more sources.
http://www.watertown.k12.ma.us...
http://www.aztec-history.com...

I am defensive. It is a subject that I feel very passionate about. We are talking about pre-columbian meso-america. Not post-columbian meso-america. As I have said, you don't seem to personally know very much about the subject. You are just repeating words from the links. Like I said. Debate me on the subject if you think you know so much.

Bringing the topic back on point... Even if I conceded to you on the Aztec (which I don't), the Aztec time period represents such a small portion of Indigenous history that it almost doesn't even matter. My point still stands strong when compared to the last 2000 years of civilizations that are supposedly "modern and civilized".

That was my point. Either way, I will debate you on the pre-columbian Aztec time period. Anything post-columbian only proves my point even more.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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8/27/2011 5:38:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 5:32:11 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 5:17:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 5:08:13 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 4:53:19 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 4:17:48 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:58:31 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 8/27/2011 3:38:06 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:47:31 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/27/2011 8:16:13 AM, seraine wrote:
I really don't care about beauty or majesty. I would rather be "good" and smart than beautiful and majestic.

But to what end? Good and smart at what? You are actually only helping Lion prove his point because he is trying to say that we are losing our appreciation of certain aspects of the human condition. By coming in and saying "well I don't care about that stuff anyway" is only driving his point home for him :) You may want to consider why humans are here in the first place, to get some perspective on what we are saying. Is the meaning of humanity to develop scientifically? Is it simply to grow and control more of our surroundings? Isn't it reasonable to say that there's some value in sitting back and really appreciating our situation from an artistic, moral, and spiritual perspective?

I would have to say that you are right and I'm glad to see someone sees things the same way as I do. Native Americans show that humans can live at one with the earth for thousands of years without destroying it. Native Americans and indigenous people in general, gave us a glimpse of ideals and culture that never needed to be extinguished. There are ways to keep civilization in harmony with the earth, while still advancing certain concepts, philosophies, and technology.

- Did the Native Americans commit genocide? No.


Well the Aztec more or less did.

No, not really.

- Did the Native Americans create world war? No.

- Did the Native Americans have slaves and conquer other civilizations? No.


See Aztecs.

I know a good amount about the Aztec time period.

- Did the Native Americans create guns, explosives, biological weapons, and WMDs? No.

- Did the Native Americans pollute and destroy the land? No.

- Did the Native Americans bring any species to the point of extinction? No.

You tell me what the Native Americans did that makes that gives us the justification to look down on them? If you ask me... We are the tyrants.

You claim that the Aztec held a civilization that committed some of these things, yet you do not make the specific claims. What are you claiming exactly? Be more clear and I request some form of evidence in support of your claim. Even if the evidence is not solid.

http://www.localhistories.org...
They were conquerors.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...
They did keep slaves.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Many of their Tributary States were dissatisfied with the Aztecs and led to many of them allying with the Spaniards to destroy the Aztec Empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
They used war to capture entire tribes in order to sacrifice them to their gods.

I know quite a bit about ancient history as well.



You obviously don't know as much about history as you think. All you have done is post some links and videos. You don't know much of anything on your own at all by the looks of it.

Why don't you actually make an actual argument instead of posting a bunch of videos and links?

In my opinion you have no idea what you are talking about and your argument style is that of a lazy coward. I will debate you on the subject.

Somebody is awfully defensive. Did you read the sources that I have used to site evidence to my arguments? The Aztecs created enemies within their own lands by overtaxing nations which they had subjugated, these natives will then aid the Conquistadors in the conquest of the Aztecs. Also the Aztecs would raid the subdued peoples and take their young to be sacrificed. The Aztecs [alongside their other allies considering it was an triple alliance and not an singular empire as one might think] oppressed others with their military might and they even kept slaves [which sources cited prior would show you] that were taken from said peoples. My posts have been proven, it is time for you to prove yours.

Two more sources.
http://www.watertown.k12.ma.us...
http://www.aztec-history.com...

I am defensive. It is a subject that I feel very passionate about. We are talking about pre-columbian meso-america. Not post-columbian meso-america. As I have said, you don't seem to personally know very much about the subject. You are just repeating words from the links. Like I said. Debate me on the subject if you think you know so much.

Bringing the topic back on point... Even if I conceded to you on the Aztec (which I don't), the Aztec time period represents such a small portion of Indigenous history that it almost doesn't even matter. My point still stands strong when compared to the last 2000 years of civilizations that are supposedly "modern and civilized".

That was my point. Either way, I will debate you on the pre-columbian Aztec time period. Anything post-columbian only proves my point even more.

Oh, why didn't you elaborate upon time periods, I was referring to the Aztecs during the time of the Triple Alliance [which did do all of the things I said they did], this was all basic miss-communication.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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8/27/2011 7:13:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Oh, why didn't you elaborate upon time periods, I was referring to the Aztecs during the time of the Triple Alliance [which did do all of the things I said they did], this was all basic miss-communication.

I do see that there was some miscommunication, though not in the way you might think. The Triple Alliance is an excellent example of Indigenous people changing there way of life into one that reflects the same mentality that has all but extinguished all indigenous people through the world. All humans were Indigenous at some point. In the case of the Triple Alliance it shows an example of what happened when the ancient Indigenous ways were replaced by modern dominance and greed.

Your example was indeed a good one and I some of my hostility was misplaced. The miscommunication came from me not being clear enough in what I was talking about, as I was talking about the ancient ways of the Indigenous overall. There are a few other exceptions as well, but overall throughout history the Indigenous people lived a lifestyle that did not include genocide an did not include conquering other civilizations. Even the Triple Alliance is a shifty example, because there was no clear cut civilization conquering another. It was more accurately a small city state that conquered other small city states of the same people. In this way it was more like civil war, though even that is not 100% accurate.

Either way, it was a good example genocide being committed by people who were once immersed in the Indigenous ways. I apologize for my defensiveness and any hostility that you ma have felt from me to you.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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8/27/2011 7:22:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 7:13:36 PM, Lionheart wrote:
Oh, why didn't you elaborate upon time periods, I was referring to the Aztecs during the time of the Triple Alliance [which did do all of the things I said they did], this was all basic miss-communication.

I do see that there was some miscommunication, though not in the way you might think. The Triple Alliance is an excellent example of Indigenous people changing there way of life into one that reflects the same mentality that has all but extinguished all indigenous people through the world. All humans were Indigenous at some point. In the case of the Triple Alliance it shows an example of what happened when the ancient Indigenous ways were replaced by modern dominance and greed.

Your example was indeed a good one and I some of my hostility was misplaced. The miscommunication came from me not being clear enough in what I was talking about, as I was talking about the ancient ways of the Indigenous overall. There are a few other exceptions as well, but overall throughout history the Indigenous people lived a lifestyle that did not include genocide an did not include conquering other civilizations. Even the Triple Alliance is a shifty example, because there was no clear cut civilization conquering another. It was more accurately a small city state that conquered other small city states of the same people. In this way it was more like civil war, though even that is not 100% accurate.

Either way, it was a good example genocide being committed by people who were once immersed in the Indigenous ways. I apologize for my defensiveness and any hostility that you ma have felt from me to you.

It's all good.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.