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Legality of Busking

CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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8/29/2011 5:01:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So I was out playing on the street, and for the first time I was stopped by a cop.

He told me that street performing is considered "vending".

Now, I don't understand this, because I'm not selling anything. I'm playing music, and if people happen to through money at me, heeeey. But the point is, I'm not being paid to play music when I do this, I'm playing whether I get paid or not.

When I was talking to the pig about this, he told me that it could also be considered pan handling, simply because a hat on the floor or an open guitar case implies that I'm begging for money.

I'm not holding a sign, I'm playing music. How is this pan handling? I'm not selling anything, how is this vending?

Seriously, by this logic, they should be hassling every woman who seems to be "dressed like a hooker".

Now yes, I realize that in certain areas, you need a permit to do street performing on public property. Downtown Chicago for one, but if I have permission from a store owner to play in front of their establishment(which is private property), why should I be hassled?

Personally as a freedom loving American citizen, I find this to be very offensive. Street performing has been the primary means of income for artists throughout most of history.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/29/2011 5:15:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/29/2011 5:01:58 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Now yes, I realize that in certain areas, you need a permit to do street performing on public property. Downtown Chicago for one, but if I have permission from a store owner to play in front of their establishment(which is private property), why should I be hassled?

In this socialist dictatorship we require licenses for such muscial larks. So for instance to make it legal to busk outside a shop or in a high street the council has to fork out for a music licence for the venue just like a night club. There are designated busking zones on the London Underground, if these are violated then you get taken of for re-education.

Some of them might be made up, but you get the gist.
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Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/29/2011 5:17:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Either busking has now been defined in legal terms or certain concepts--"vending", "pan handling", and so on have gained flexibility of application to even street performing.

It seems sad that this is the case, since as you stated many artists perform on the streets "as the primary means of income for artists throughout most of history".
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/29/2011 5:26:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Typically, the land infront of their establishment is not owned by them.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/29/2011 5:33:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is this England or America we're speaking of? I suggest you maybe write a letter to the mayor, or start a petition to reform that law if you feel very upset about it.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
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8/29/2011 5:37:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'd much rather have a bum singing music than the alternative.

I remember driving by this guy holding a sign, he was carrying one of those portable oxygen tanks on wheels with tubes in his nose.

When I got close enough to look, I could clearly see the gauge said the tank was empty...for shame!
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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8/29/2011 5:42:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is America, and I doubt that anything I say to the mayor will have effect.

Now, I am aware that there are private properties and public properties. However, whether I am playing on private or public property or not, they claim they can get me for pan handling or vending.

I think this is utter BS, because I'm not doing either of these things. At the same time, I should not be hassled if I am playing on private property, and have permission from the owner to do so.

Also, yes, I did get burrito money, and I'm fighting every urge I have to spend it on said burrito. I'm trying to save money up, and 5 dollars a day is 35 dollars a week I've been spending on burritos. 35 dollars extra can go places. It is taking every fiber of my willpower to pass up on this burrito. I haven't had a burrito since Saturday, and it's making me sweat.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/29/2011 5:47:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/29/2011 5:42:57 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
This is America, and I doubt that anything I say to the mayor will have effect.

Why don't you just start a petition or lobby town hall? Spur outrage from the facebook community, run for mayor, get elected and change the law, sue the police department for false accusation. All of that is far more productive than complaining here.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/29/2011 6:33:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/29/2011 5:47:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/29/2011 5:42:57 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
This is America, and I doubt that anything I say to the mayor will have effect.

Why don't you just start a petition or lobby town hall? Spur outrage from the facebook community, run for mayor, get elected and change the law, sue the police department for false accusation. All of that is far more productive than complaining here.

Go Captain Planet!
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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8/29/2011 6:48:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've wondered whether I would get shut down by passing police for "busking (if that's what it's called)." That's part of the reason I don't do it very often... I usually set up next to the hot dog guy who is very nice and encourages me (perhaps he feels I help advertise a bit for him, although I feel kind of like I'm dipping into his tips sometimes). I also feel weird doing it without asking anyone, because like you said this is America and we have property rights and since I don't own the sidewalk then logically there is somebody who I should be paying to do it (rent to the capitalists and taxes to the socialists). Well, I guess we don't need artists anyway...
Rob
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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8/29/2011 10:33:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/29/2011 5:47:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/29/2011 5:42:57 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
This is America, and I doubt that anything I say to the mayor will have effect.

Why don't you just start a petition or lobby town hall? Spur outrage from the facebook community, run for mayor, get elected and change the law, sue the police department for false accusation. All of that is far more productive than complaining here.

Who ever said anything about being productive?

What I am going to that is productive is look into the books to see what the laws actually say.

I don't think anybody would take my complaints seriously though. The minute I walk through the door, I'm going to be labeled as a bum, and not be taken seriously.

I might be able to rally up some members of the community, as there are a lot of people who see me play and really enjoy it. On Saturday, I made 60 dollars in three hours in just bills, not counting the change.

This was in a suburb of Chicago. That just seems unheard of to me.

When I get a permit to play downtown, I'm going to be raking in the big bucks. A permit costs 100 dollars, but I could probably make it back fairly quickly.

But anyway, even though I might be able to get some members of the community behind me, what I'd really like is to get people to picket outside city hall and cause a scene that gets media attention. It would be one thing to get people to sign a petition, it is something else entirely to get people to cause a ruckus.

Then again, I don't know. I'm still sorting it all out. I know for certain that I'm not going to sue the police department or do anything like that. Around here, that's insanity. The police department is run by the mob.

I will say this though, if my pestering does bring about some type of change, it will renew my faith in government by at least a little bit. Right now, I just think they are more or less an inconvenience to my life.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/30/2011 7:37:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/29/2011 10:33:46 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 8/29/2011 5:47:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/29/2011 5:42:57 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
This is America, and I doubt that anything I say to the mayor will have effect.

Why don't you just start a petition or lobby town hall? Spur outrage from the facebook community, run for mayor, get elected and change the law, sue the police department for false accusation. All of that is far more productive than complaining here.

Who ever said anything about being productive?

Stopped reading here.

What I am going to that is productive is look into the books to see what the laws actually say.

I don't think anybody would take my complaints seriously though. The minute I walk through the door, I'm going to be labeled as a bum, and not be taken seriously.

I might be able to rally up some members of the community, as there are a lot of people who see me play and really enjoy it. On Saturday, I made 60 dollars in three hours in just bills, not counting the change.

This was in a suburb of Chicago. That just seems unheard of to me.

When I get a permit to play downtown, I'm going to be raking in the big bucks. A permit costs 100 dollars, but I could probably make it back fairly quickly.


But anyway, even though I might be able to get some members of the community behind me, what I'd really like is to get people to picket outside city hall and cause a scene that gets media attention. It would be one thing to get people to sign a petition, it is something else entirely to get people to cause a ruckus.

Then again, I don't know. I'm still sorting it all out. I know for certain that I'm not going to sue the police department or do anything like that. Around here, that's insanity. The police department is run by the mob.

I will say this though, if my pestering does bring about some type of change, it will renew my faith in government by at least a little bit. Right now, I just think they are more or less an inconvenience to my life.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
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8/30/2011 8:37:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/30/2011 7:37:38 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/29/2011 10:33:46 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 8/29/2011 5:47:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/29/2011 5:42:57 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
This is America, and I doubt that anything I say to the mayor will have effect.

Why don't you just start a petition or lobby town hall? Spur outrage from the facebook community, run for mayor, get elected and change the law, sue the police department for false accusation. All of that is far more productive than complaining here.

Who ever said anything about being productive?

Stopped reading here.

Kept reading there.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/30/2011 12:54:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/29/2011 6:48:00 PM, Lasagna wrote:
since I don't own the sidewalk then logically there is somebody who I should be paying to do it (rent to the capitalists and taxes to the socialists).
That doesn't actually follow, as the socialists built the sidewalk by violating property rights and hence have none.
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