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White Supremacy rally/counter-rally

DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/2/2011 8:59:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Hey, DDO. Well, in my homestate of Wisconsin, there was quite a bit of black-on-white violence at our state fair. So, being the opportunists that they are, a white supremacy/neo-nazi group is holding a rally called "In Defense of White America," in the city of West Allis tomorrow--http://www.wuwm.com...

There's already a counter-rally being planned, and from the looks of it, the white supremacists will most likely get shouted down. Do you think this is fair?

I honestly am conflicted. While I strongly disagree with the white supremacist belief, I also think it's rather unfair and childish to shout them down before even hearing what they have to say, and soley basing judgements off of a stance alone.

But what do you all think?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/2/2011 9:03:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
No matter how you look at it, human beings get offended. There is a code of conduct in society. There are things that are acceptable, and things that are not. Shouting racist remarks publicly is not tolerable. If any of those individuals were intelligent and truly felt strongly about their position they would go about inquiring a more peaceful and sensible outlet for their views. People who get out and rally for whatever cause I view as morons. It is a disgracefully ineffective method of expression.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/2/2011 9:07:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 9:04:54 PM, Lasagna wrote:
What city are you in ninja? I'm up in Green Bay (Wausau at the moment actually)

Milwaukee--livin' dat CITY life.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/2/2011 9:08:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 9:03:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
No matter how you look at it, human beings get offended. There is a code of conduct in society. There are things that are acceptable, and things that are not. Shouting racist remarks publicly is not tolerable. If any of those individuals were intelligent and truly felt strongly about their position they would go about inquiring a more peaceful and sensible outlet for their views. People who get out and rally for whatever cause I view as morons. It is a disgracefully ineffective method of expression.

Mayhaps you have a narrow view of what a RALLY actually is. The Democratic and Republican /Conventions are rallies. Protests are rallies. ANY ind of demonstration is a rally.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Joseph_Mengele
Posts: 388
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9/2/2011 9:14:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 8:59:26 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Hey, DDO. Well, in my homestate of Wisconsin, there was quite a bit of black-on-white violence at our state fair. So, being the opportunists that they are, a white supremacy/neo-nazi group is holding a rally called "In Defense of White America," in the city of West Allis tomorrow--http://www.wuwm.com...

While I would usually go on a huge, HUGE rant about topics like these, I'll try to keep myself to strictly issuing short-medium lengths posts for the benefit of the reader.

Now, before I even looked at the link, I knew it was going to be the National Socialist Movement. :D I have some friends that were active in that, personally I am against them and I am more of a National Alliance supporter myself, but I would gladly help this group anyday over the NAACP.

There's already a counter-rally being planned, and from the looks of it, the white supremacists will most likely get shouted down. Do you think this is fair?
Definitly not. If anything white supremacists should be given a platform to preach their views from. Note* I only advocate that because of political correctness.

I honestly am conflicted. While I strongly disagree with the white supremacist belief, I also think it's rather unfair and childish to shout them down before even hearing what they have to say, and soley basing judgements off of a stance alone.
Thats liberals for ya. It doesn't help that Wisconsin is one of the most liberal states out there. I find it a coinscidence that I was born there, especially in one of the most cities...Madison.

But what do you all think?

See above.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/2/2011 9:15:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 9:08:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:03:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
No matter how you look at it, human beings get offended. There is a code of conduct in society. There are things that are acceptable, and things that are not. Shouting racist remarks publicly is not tolerable. If any of those individuals were intelligent and truly felt strongly about their position they would go about inquiring a more peaceful and sensible outlet for their views. People who get out and rally for whatever cause I view as morons. It is a disgracefully ineffective method of expression.

Mayhaps you have a narrow view of what a RALLY actually is. The Democratic and Republican /Conventions are rallies. Protests are rallies. ANY ind of demonstration is a rally.

Rally: gathering: a large meeting or gathering of people, usually organized by a movement or political party and intended to inspire and generate enthusiasm among those present

THAT is what gets me annoyed about rallies. I prefer silent intelligence than enthusiastic and boisterous ignorance any day.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/2/2011 9:20:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 9:14:31 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
At 9/2/2011 8:59:26 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Hey, DDO. Well, in my homestate of Wisconsin, there was quite a bit of black-on-white violence at our state fair. So, being the opportunists that they are, a white supremacy/neo-nazi group is holding a rally called "In Defense of White America," in the city of West Allis tomorrow--http://www.wuwm.com...

While I would usually go on a huge, HUGE rant about topics like these, I'll try to keep myself to strictly issuing short-medium lengths posts for the benefit of the reader.

Now, before I even looked at the link, I knew it was going to be the National Socialist Movement. :D I have some friends that were active in that, personally I am against them and I am more of a National Alliance supporter myself, but I would gladly help this group anyday over the NAACP.

There's already a counter-rally being planned, and from the looks of it, the white supremacists will most likely get shouted down. Do you think this is fair?
Definitly not. If anything white supremacists should be given a platform to preach their views from. Note* I only advocate that because of political correctness.

I honestly am conflicted. While I strongly disagree with the white supremacist belief, I also think it's rather unfair and childish to shout them down before even hearing what they have to say, and soley basing judgements off of a stance alone.
Thats liberals for ya. It doesn't help that Wisconsin is one of the most liberal states out there. I find it a coinscidence that I was born there, especially in one of the most cities...Madison.

But what do you all think?

See above.

I hear what you're saying. Although I must point out that in actuality, Wisconsin is really a red state, not a blue. Madison and my city (Milwaukee) are VERY blue, but other than that...
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/2/2011 9:23:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 9:15:31 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:08:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:03:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
No matter how you look at it, human beings get offended. There is a code of conduct in society. There are things that are acceptable, and things that are not. Shouting racist remarks publicly is not tolerable. If any of those individuals were intelligent and truly felt strongly about their position they would go about inquiring a more peaceful and sensible outlet for their views. People who get out and rally for whatever cause I view as morons. It is a disgracefully ineffective method of expression.

Mayhaps you have a narrow view of what a RALLY actually is. The Democratic and Republican /Conventions are rallies. Protests are rallies. ANY ind of demonstration is a rally.

Rally: gathering: a large meeting or gathering of people, usually organized by a movement or political party and intended to inspire and generate enthusiasm among those present

THAT is what gets me annoyed about rallies. I prefer silent intelligence than enthusiastic and boisterous ignorance any day.

You seem to be creating a false dichotemy (to borrow an izbo term :/), in that you seem to make the assertion that loud=ignorant. I was/am raised in a very outspoken environment. Sure, silent protest works, but there are points when enough is very much enough. NOTE: This isn't defending the Nazi rally, but the idea of public protest in general.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/2/2011 9:27:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 9:23:04 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:15:31 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:08:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:03:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
No matter how you look at it, human beings get offended. There is a code of conduct in society. There are things that are acceptable, and things that are not. Shouting racist remarks publicly is not tolerable. If any of those individuals were intelligent and truly felt strongly about their position they would go about inquiring a more peaceful and sensible outlet for their views. People who get out and rally for whatever cause I view as morons. It is a disgracefully ineffective method of expression.

Mayhaps you have a narrow view of what a RALLY actually is. The Democratic and Republican /Conventions are rallies. Protests are rallies. ANY ind of demonstration is a rally.

Rally: gathering: a large meeting or gathering of people, usually organized by a movement or political party and intended to inspire and generate enthusiasm among those present

THAT is what gets me annoyed about rallies. I prefer silent intelligence than enthusiastic and boisterous ignorance any day.

You seem to be creating a false dichotemy (to borrow an izbo term :/), in that you seem to make the assertion that loud=ignorant. I was/am raised in a very outspoken environment. Sure, silent protest works, but there are points when enough is very much enough. NOTE: This isn't defending the Nazi rally, but the idea of public protest in general.

Actually, I would say that you are the one misunderstanding my position. I did not say loud = ignorant. I implied rather that loud ignorance is so terrible that it would be best that protests of real intelligence be done in a more quiet but powerful manner such as to distinguish them. Kind of like a Malcolm X - Martin Luther King situation. One speaks to incite emotion and spontaneous enthusiasm, one speaks to show truth and quell rising tension.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/2/2011 9:29:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 9:27:25 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:23:04 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:15:31 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:08:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:03:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
No matter how you look at it, human beings get offended. There is a code of conduct in society. There are things that are acceptable, and things that are not. Shouting racist remarks publicly is not tolerable. If any of those individuals were intelligent and truly felt strongly about their position they would go about inquiring a more peaceful and sensible outlet for their views. People who get out and rally for whatever cause I view as morons. It is a disgracefully ineffective method of expression.

Mayhaps you have a narrow view of what a RALLY actually is. The Democratic and Republican /Conventions are rallies. Protests are rallies. ANY ind of demonstration is a rally.

Rally: gathering: a large meeting or gathering of people, usually organized by a movement or political party and intended to inspire and generate enthusiasm among those present

THAT is what gets me annoyed about rallies. I prefer silent intelligence than enthusiastic and boisterous ignorance any day.

You seem to be creating a false dichotemy (to borrow an izbo term :/), in that you seem to make the assertion that loud=ignorant. I was/am raised in a very outspoken environment. Sure, silent protest works, but there are points when enough is very much enough. NOTE: This isn't defending the Nazi rally, but the idea of public protest in general.

Actually, I would say that you are the one misunderstanding my position. I did not say loud = ignorant. I implied rather that loud ignorance is so terrible that it would be best that protests of real intelligence be done in a more quiet but powerful manner such as to distinguish them. Kind of like a Malcolm X - Martin Luther King situation. One speaks to incite emotion and spontaneous enthusiasm, one speaks to show truth and quell rising tension.

one is executed eloquently and respectfully, the other is not. We can get into semantcs over the term rally, but you and I both know that the majority of them involve raising anger over one situation or another.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/2/2011 9:30:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 9:27:25 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:23:04 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:15:31 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:08:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/2/2011 9:03:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
No matter how you look at it, human beings get offended. There is a code of conduct in society. There are things that are acceptable, and things that are not. Shouting racist remarks publicly is not tolerable. If any of those individuals were intelligent and truly felt strongly about their position they would go about inquiring a more peaceful and sensible outlet for their views. People who get out and rally for whatever cause I view as morons. It is a disgracefully ineffective method of expression.

Mayhaps you have a narrow view of what a RALLY actually is. The Democratic and Republican /Conventions are rallies. Protests are rallies. ANY ind of demonstration is a rally.

Rally: gathering: a large meeting or gathering of people, usually organized by a movement or political party and intended to inspire and generate enthusiasm among those present

THAT is what gets me annoyed about rallies. I prefer silent intelligence than enthusiastic and boisterous ignorance any day.

You seem to be creating a false dichotemy (to borrow an izbo term :/), in that you seem to make the assertion that loud=ignorant. I was/am raised in a very outspoken environment. Sure, silent protest works, but there are points when enough is very much enough. NOTE: This isn't defending the Nazi rally, but the idea of public protest in general.

Actually, I would say that you are the one misunderstanding my position. I did not say loud = ignorant. I implied rather that loud ignorance is so terrible that it would be best that protests of real intelligence be done in a more quiet but powerful manner such as to distinguish them. Kind of like a Malcolm X - Martin Luther King situation. One speaks to incite emotion and spontaneous enthusiasm, one speaks to show truth and quell rising tension.

Ah. I see what you mean now.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/4/2011 8:44:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 8:59:26 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Hey, DDO. Well, in my homestate of Wisconsin, there was quite a bit of black-on-white violence at our state fair. So, being the opportunists that they are, a white supremacy/neo-nazi group is holding a rally called "In Defense of White America," in the city of West Allis tomorrow--http://www.wuwm.com...

There's already a counter-rally being planned, and from the looks of it, the white supremacists will most likely get shouted down. Do you think this is fair?

I honestly am conflicted. While I strongly disagree with the white supremacist belief, I also think it's rather unfair and childish to shout them down before even hearing what they have to say, and soley basing judgements off of a stance alone.

But what do you all think?

They are doing this to force an aggressive confrontation when there are other better methods of getting their point across.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.