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Affirmative Action/"White Guilt"

DetectableNinja
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9/5/2011 10:54:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Okay, so, I'm sure that people have covered these topics before, but I'd care to throw my two cents in.

To me, the whole idea of affirmative action is bass ackwards. Proponents claim it isn't racist, and that it's merely assisting historically disadvantaged groups. But, honestly, I don't buy it, and the key here is the term "historically disadvantaged." Of course, groups such as African Americans are not "out of the woods," completely, but does that really mean we give a "minority," group preferential and practically sexist and racist treatment over the "majority?" The way I see it, if one really wanted to have balance, we'd strive for equal treatment instead of saying "favor the woman over the man because in the past the women were mistreated."

That leads me to the idea of white guilt, or, in general, racism against whites. Whatever way you look at it, one would have to be a fool to say that there are whites out there who are being discriminated against. This I know firsthand, having experienced quite a bit of racially offensive treatment against me. Mind you, I'm not one of those who says "oh, we should call then n!%#$rs because they call us c!$#%@rs." No. My point is, is that the whole idea of white guilt needs to fade away, and the concept of racism against whites should stop being taken as a joke.

To sum up what I just said, the point is that if you want to have a society where we don't judge each other based on things like skin color, sex, etc, then we should have a society that treats any such violation of that seriously.

Or, to make it even shorter: I support EQUALITY, not INEQUALITY.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
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9/5/2011 12:31:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Oops! Forgot to add "What do you think?" Of course it's implied, but, to be more explicit:

What do you think?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
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9/5/2011 12:36:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't think you will find anyone who disagrees with this. However, your explanation for affirmative action I do disagree with. I don't think it comes from "white guilt," I think the concept is sort of like bending the stick the other way to make it straight again. Affirmative action has honorable conscience behind it, not out of a need to repay for ancestral mistakes, but more out of a need to help lift the minorities to proper prevalence and representation. The problem being: instead of bending the stick the other way, we should just break the stick and half and use it as firewood. Affirmative action, as you said, perpetuates racial tension.

My problem many con-affirmative action contenders are their sentiments. They don't quite understand why and with what motive and goal affirmative action is introduced. Therefore, they meet the situation with an anger that is disproportionate to the problem at hand.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
InsertNameHere
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9/5/2011 1:39:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I definitely agree. Affirmative action definitely is reverse racism and could be as a result of white guilt(not that there's anything wrong with white guilt itself, however). If a person wants to keep their business up and running then they would hire the person best suited for the position regardless of race, gender, etc. I don't see anything racist about that.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/5/2011 2:10:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 10:54:20 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:

That leads me to the idea of white guilt, or, in general, racism against whites. Whatever way you look at it, one would have to be a fool to say that there are whites out there who are being discriminated against. This I know firsthand, having experienced quite a bit of racially offensive treatment against me. Mind you, I'm not one of those who says "oh, we should call then n!%#$rs because they call us c!$#%@rs." No. My point is, is that the whole idea of white guilt needs to fade away, and the concept of racism against whites should stop being taken as a joke.


For one, white guilt and racism against whites are logically distinct concepts. For two, AA premises aren't built on cases of individual incidents of racism (or sexism) per your example; it has more to do with systemic and institutionalized racism and sexism.
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BLACK LIVES MATTER!
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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9/5/2011 3:00:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I feel like a lot of people don't really get how affirmative action works.

I'm not saying I do, but I've gotten that sense from debates I've seen on the subject. The most I know of it is in college admissions, and people definitely don't understand how it works there. It's not about taking minority students who are "less qualified" (a term also used by many who don't understand how admissions work), it's about building a well rounded student body.

I guess that idea can be expanded to other things like workplaces. It's something that people who are hiring/handling admissions and all should embrace.
DetectableNinja
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9/5/2011 3:07:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 3:00:30 PM, LeafRod wrote:
I feel like a lot of people don't really get how affirmative action works.

I'm not saying I do, but I've gotten that sense from debates I've seen on the subject. The most I know of it is in college admissions, and people definitely don't understand how it works there. It's not about taking minority students who are "less qualified" (a term also used by many who don't understand how admissions work), it's about building a well rounded student body.

I guess that idea can be expanded to other things like workplaces. It's something that people who are hiring/handling admissions and all should embrace.

Nope, sorry. It may not necessarily be about "less qualified," minorities, but what it does create is quotas.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Wnope
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9/5/2011 3:40:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Just so we keep everything in perspective, "historical" means "your parents/grandparents" not "the civil war."

It's hard to say with a straight face that blacks had a "fair chance" before segregation ended.

That doesn't necessarily mean we ought to give them benefits after the fact, but we also can't pretend that racism is some sort of anachronism with no effect on black people today.
LeafRod
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9/5/2011 3:48:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Affirmative action and racial quotas aren't the same thing.

If an organization chooses to use racial quotas, that's their choice. Chances are they have enough capable candidates not to suffer a drop in productivity. The idea that quotas lead to white people often getting cheated out of jobs seems pretty ridiculous to me. If you have a problem with how they run their businesses, get better at what you do.
Ragnar_Rahl
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9/5/2011 3:59:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 3:40:56 PM, Wnope wrote:
Just so we keep everything in perspective, "historical" means "your parents/grandparents" not "the civil war."
What it doesn't mean is "you."

Unless you're really really old.

Even then, the state should only compensate those old people for the state's segregation, not private segregation-- they have no inherent right to another's property.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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9/5/2011 4:00:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
(Note: No inherent right to have wealthy grandparents or parents either I might add).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.