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Ancient Complex Society

Mikeee
Posts: 234
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10/11/2011 6:03:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is it possible that civilization developed earlier than previously thought? Has the actual "start of civilization" been lost/not discovered? If civilization did develop much earlier than we thought, then how does that affect what we know of early civilizations such as Mesopotamia and Egypt.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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10/11/2011 6:27:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Great topic. I am so interested in the Great Pyramid of Giza, because it just seems impossible that it could have been built with the technology (i.e. none) we were supposed to have had 6000 years ago.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/11/2011 7:05:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 6:27:43 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Great topic. I am so interested in the Great Pyramid of Giza, because it just seems impossible that it could have been built with the technology (i.e. none) we were supposed to have had 6000 years ago.
If real (very possible), could be much older. -->

I was on one of them four years ago. Was pretty fascinating.
Rockylightning
Posts: 2,862
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10/11/2011 8:56:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 6:27:43 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Great topic. I am so interested in the Great Pyramid of Giza, because it just seems impossible that it could have been built with the technology (i.e. none) we were supposed to have had 6000 years ago.

Theres some thing with the sun, where it aligns perfectly on something...I forget. But what I do remember is that you can only tell if you were looking down from space.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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10/11/2011 9:18:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 6:27:43 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Great topic. I am so interested in the Great Pyramid of Giza, because it just seems impossible that it could have been built with the technology (i.e. none) we were supposed to have had 6000 years ago.

Y'know, I just saw a documentary on the GPoG. They were testing theories about how it was built (specifically the ramps). Apparently, the most likely thing that happened was that they used a series of ramps and simple pulleys (to move blocks between ramps) INSIDE the pyramid as it was being built--I guess they actually found areas that are like ramps. This basically destroyed the old theories about a spiral ramp or the one huge one.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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10/11/2011 10:47:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 8:56:40 PM, Rockylightning wrote:
At 10/11/2011 6:27:43 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Great topic. I am so interested in the Great Pyramid of Giza, because it just seems impossible that it could have been built with the technology (i.e. none) we were supposed to have had 6000 years ago.

Theres some thing with the sun, where it aligns perfectly on something...I forget. But what I do remember is that you can only tell if you were looking down from space.

It's actually an 8 sided pyramid but you can only tell during the equinox.
Then there's the fact that it faces True North, despite True North not being discovered until the 18th century.
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Puck
Posts: 6,457
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10/18/2011 6:18:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 6:27:43 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Great topic. I am so interested in the Great Pyramid of Giza, because it just seems impossible that it could have been built with the technology (i.e. none) we were supposed to have had 6000 years ago.

Bad myth is bad. It's been replicated, albeit to a smaller scale, using tools available at the time. There's also plenty of failed and smaller pyramids in Egypt that show a clear progression of trying to 'get it right'.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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10/18/2011 6:21:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 10:47:28 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Then there's the fact that it faces True North, despite True North not being discovered until the 18th century.

>.< Or you know, Polaris. That highly visible bright star. That sits above the North Pole and rotates within 1 degree of the North Pole. That other stars appear to rotate around. Did I mention it's highly visible. :P
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/18/2011 9:15:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 6:27:43 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Great topic. I am so interested in the Great Pyramid of Giza, because it just seems impossible that it could have been built with the technology (i.e. none) we were supposed to have had 6000 years ago.

How so?
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/18/2011 9:35:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There appears to be a lot of doubt concerning the bosnian pyramid... but it sure looks like one to me.

If you look into history enough you will learn that invariably a given civilisation was almost always more advanced, older, more travelled and more nuanced than you have been left to believe. When you scratch the surface history becomes so much more complex.

Anomalies include,
English Explorers discovering the America's before columbus.
Almost every new colony or new expedition into unexplored areas in America found a handy guide or two fully fluent in both the languages of the natives and the explorers.
The Aztecs were expecting renewed contact with white civilisation when the Spanish turned up.
There are Sudanese Pyramids predating Egyptian ones.
Electroplating and electric batteries were in use in 2,500 BC.
Christians were established in China before Bhuddists were.
Egyptian cocaine and tobacco.
The Shang dynasty of China had strong links to central and southern america.
Bhuddism at some absurdly early date in Egypt as well.
Romans were fully aware of steam power, just stupid.

Heck I bet most of you would have to google what century cannons appeared in Europe, because that is probably earlier than what most of you think.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/18/2011 9:40:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I guess it depends on what we consider a civilization, but there was a paint kit discovered that is reportedly 100,000 years old. That's a really old paint kit, and if there was some sort of civilization that surrounded that, well....

http://www.guardian.co.uk...
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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10/18/2011 10:22:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/18/2011 9:15:36 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/11/2011 6:27:43 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Great topic. I am so interested in the Great Pyramid of Giza, because it just seems impossible that it could have been built with the technology (i.e. none) we were supposed to have had 6000 years ago.

How so?

Well, I might just be over-imaginative but I watch this documentary (this is part 1 of 7) and it just got me thinking...
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Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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10/20/2011 8:14:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/11/2011 6:03:54 PM, Mikeee wrote:
Is it possible that civilization developed earlier than previously thought? Has the actual "start of civilization" been lost/not discovered? If civilization did develop much earlier than we thought, then how does that affect what we know of early civilizations such as Mesopotamia and Egypt.

It's not only possible, it is far more probable than not. There is so much evidence in support of this theory that you would have to be incredibly naive or strongly ignorant to not seriously consider it. The history that we know today is a story shaped by the limited amount of evidence that we have and a very biased interpretation of how that evidence is deciphered. Ancient sites all around the world raise major questions about the history of the human race.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."