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What went wrong with the Native Americans?

Lickdafoot
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10/17/2011 4:45:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What went wrong with the Native Americans? I don't have any statistics right now to back this up, but I was watching a documentary about modern Native American lifestyles. They have the highest suicide rates of all the races in america. Highest alcoholism rates. They have the highest rape and abuse rates. It seems as though their reservations are full of abuse. They don't have a good justice system. The police are spread thin there. When a large crime like murder or rape happens, it goes straight to the feds. The fed's aren't prioritizing the Native American needs, so a lot of crimes go unresolved.

On the reservations, the parents are said to be violent, and the children have "drinking" parties where a girl gets raped "every weekend" according to some of the teens in the video. What is worse, is many of the women feel that they cannot speak up about it, because in a tribal setting, taking action against one person is taking action against a whole family. Many women have been outcasted because of this.

Why did this happen?

Is it a result of alcohol?

Is it the British settler's fault- stripping The Native Americans of their culture, their tribal setting; taking away their connection to earth that kept them together and forcing them to live a new way?

Are the men suppressed of land, custom, and consequently, egos ? Is this why violence among family members has increased?

What can be done by us americans to help these people and help them reclaim their culture and their happiness?
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DetectableNinja
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10/17/2011 4:51:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree that their stripped culture probably played a big part of it.

Unfortunately, at this stage, 3-400 years later, I think it would be very difficult to help them reclaim their culture--at least completely.
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Calvincambridge
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10/17/2011 4:55:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
BEER,white man, WHISKEY,techonology.
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innomen
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10/17/2011 4:56:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 4:51:34 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I agree that their stripped culture probably played a big part of it.

Unfortunately, at this stage, 3-400 years later, I think it would be very difficult to help them reclaim their culture--at least completely.

I dunno about that. I have a friend who's been living in northern Alaska, and he says the exact same things about the indigenous people up there. They really didn't have the same experience as the American Indians to the south, and still the net result of alcohol + their culture/biology = disaster. There was something about adding modernity to a culture that was close to the stone age a couple centuries ago that just didn't work.
Lickdafoot
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10/17/2011 4:57:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 4:51:34 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I agree that their stripped culture probably played a big part of it.

Unfortunately, at this stage, 3-400 years later, I think it would be very difficult to help them reclaim their culture--at least completely.

yeah, culture cannot be totally regained, as it is a completely different world now. but what about their happiness? Is there a way to get them living more healthy? Would it be with more involvement from the feds? Or would forcing them to make changes be hypocritical, as pushing them to form to a mold lead them into this mess in the first place?
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Lickdafoot
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10/17/2011 4:58:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 4:56:58 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/17/2011 4:51:34 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I agree that their stripped culture probably played a big part of it.

Unfortunately, at this stage, 3-400 years later, I think it would be very difficult to help them reclaim their culture--at least completely.

I dunno about that. I have a friend who's been living in northern Alaska, and he says the exact same things about the indigenous people up there. They really didn't have the same experience as the American Indians to the south, and still the net result of alcohol + their culture/biology = disaster. There was something about adding modernity to a culture that was close to the stone age a couple centuries ago that just didn't work.

Oh. that makes sense.
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innomen
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10/17/2011 4:59:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 4:58:50 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 10/17/2011 4:56:58 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/17/2011 4:51:34 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
I agree that their stripped culture probably played a big part of it.

Unfortunately, at this stage, 3-400 years later, I think it would be very difficult to help them reclaim their culture--at least completely.

I dunno about that. I have a friend who's been living in northern Alaska, and he says the exact same things about the indigenous people up there. They really didn't have the same experience as the American Indians to the south, and still the net result of alcohol + their culture/biology = disaster. There was something about adding modernity to a culture that was close to the stone age a couple centuries ago that just didn't work.

Oh. that makes sense.

But not politically correct.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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10/17/2011 5:07:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The whole thing about political correctness again! My position on this has always been that "political correctness" is a term that racists use against liberals so as to pretend that Liberals are ones being ridiculous and not them.
innomen
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10/17/2011 5:14:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 5:07:06 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
The whole thing about political correctness again! My position on this has always been that "political correctness" is a term that racists use against liberals so as to pretend that Liberals are ones being ridiculous and not them.

Yeah... no, that's not it.
Rockylightning
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10/17/2011 10:06:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 4:45:27 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
What went wrong with the Native Americans? I don't have any statistics right now to back this up, but ......

http://www.rollingstone.com...

Watch the video.
Greyparrot
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10/17/2011 10:15:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Everyone needs a sense of identity, a sense of place and importance in society. We are herd animals by nature and need a sense of place in that herd. By destroying everything the Indian culture that was sacred to the Indians, we took away thier identity and importance.

You may believe that it would be a simple matter for Indians to adapt to the new cuture of modern technological society, but that is not true. Indians find no place of importance for themselves in such a society, and are not motivated to adapt. Without a sense of purpose, drugs are a quick way to ease the pain of disattachment from a place in society.
Greyparrot
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10/17/2011 10:16:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Reservations would have worked if you could physically isolate the communities from the rest of the world, but this is impossible.
darkkermit
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10/17/2011 10:20:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Alright, if this information about adding "culture and modernity" is a problem, then why aren't the amish in the same boat as native americans as well? The amish actually have high levels of happiness.
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Lickdafoot
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10/17/2011 10:29:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 10:20:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Alright, if this information about adding "culture and modernity" is a problem, then why aren't the amish in the same boat as native americans as well? The amish actually have high levels of happiness.

because their strict lifestyle doesn't allow them to conform to modern societies pressure and identity (only conform to their leader's sense of identity.. this creates a bunch of problems itself, which is why many amish teens get into drugs and depression before either leaving, or going back to the conformity for the sake of family and comfort)
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darkkermit
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10/17/2011 10:36:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 10:29:43 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 10/17/2011 10:20:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Alright, if this information about adding "culture and modernity" is a problem, then why aren't the amish in the same boat as native americans as well? The amish actually have high levels of happiness.

because their strict lifestyle doesn't allow them to conform to modern societies pressure and identity (only conform to their leader's sense of identity.. this creates a bunch of problems itself, which is why many amish teens get into drugs and depression before either leaving, or going back to the conformity for the sake of family and comfort)

Okay, I think I get it.
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innomen
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10/18/2011 2:43:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 10:29:43 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 10/17/2011 10:20:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Alright, if this information about adding "culture and modernity" is a problem, then why aren't the amish in the same boat as native americans as well? The amish actually have high levels of happiness.

because their strict lifestyle doesn't allow them to conform to modern societies pressure and identity (only conform to their leader's sense of identity.. this creates a bunch of problems itself, which is why many amish teens get into drugs and depression before either leaving, or going back to the conformity for the sake of family and comfort)

Yes, exactly, they were and are incredibly successful in working their version of a reservation. Interestingly enough, the Amish are actually growing in population by quite a bit, and are very successful in acheiving happiness and even a certain wealth.
darkkermit
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10/18/2011 3:30:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/18/2011 2:43:00 AM, innomen wrote:
At 10/17/2011 10:29:43 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 10/17/2011 10:20:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Alright, if this information about adding "culture and modernity" is a problem, then why aren't the amish in the same boat as native americans as well? The amish actually have high levels of happiness.

because their strict lifestyle doesn't allow them to conform to modern societies pressure and identity (only conform to their leader's sense of identity.. this creates a bunch of problems itself, which is why many amish teens get into drugs and depression before either leaving, or going back to the conformity for the sake of family and comfort)

Yes, exactly, they were and are incredibly successful in working their version of a reservation. Interestingly enough, the Amish are actually growing in population by quite a bit, and are very successful in acheiving happiness and even a certain wealth.

Population growth tends to increase if you have a "developing-like" economy. There are definitely benefits to living the simple life like the amish. There's something about working with your hands.

Like, right now I wonder what's the purpose of me staying up late and stressing out to work on my chemistry lab.
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Lickdafoot
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10/18/2011 1:04:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
are there any studies that show that the amish are happier? I've met quite a few amish people, and they are extremely friendly and welcoming, but I would not have labeled them as happier than normal.

They do have exceptional wealth compared to what one might think. They are extremely resourceful and great at making things. If we ever run out of oil before a change in our power sources, I will be happy knowing that I live near amish: they will still be there selling food, seeds, furniture, etc. They won't go into a frenzy like the rest of us. Many of them are allowed to use electricity for their jobs, which probably helps them quite a bit.

I don't agree with a lot of their ways, but it does work for them.

Does this give evidence that a strong economy/ governmental system is needed to keep us living healthy, safe lives?

If the native americans had a firmer justice system, or moral guidelines to follow, they might be in a better place right now. The tribal mentality could work for them rather than against them, like it did many years ago.

It's very interesting how the group with the larger control is more prosperous than the group with the larger free will. Can this be said on a worldwide scale as well, or are their clear distincitons between "large society" and "small groups within society"?
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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10/18/2011 1:30:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 4:45:27 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
What went wrong with the Native Americans? I don't have any statistics right now to back this up, but I was watching a documentary about modern Native American lifestyles. They have the highest suicide rates of all the races in america. Highest alcoholism rates. They have the highest rape and abuse rates. It seems as though their reservations are full of abuse. They don't have a good justice system. The police are spread thin there. When a large crime like murder or rape happens, it goes straight to the feds. The fed's aren't prioritizing the Native American needs, so a lot of crimes go unresolved.

On the reservations, the parents are said to be violent, and the children have "drinking" parties where a girl gets raped "every weekend" according to some of the teens in the video. What is worse, is many of the women feel that they cannot speak up about it, because in a tribal setting, taking action against one person is taking action against a whole family. Many women have been outcasted because of this.

Why did this happen?

Is it a result of alcohol?

Is it the British settler's fault- stripping The Native Americans of their culture, their tribal setting; taking away their connection to earth that kept them together and forcing them to live a new way?

I think that should read... the American settlers fault. And yes.

Are the men suppressed of land, custom, and consequently, egos ? Is this why violence among family members has increased?

What can be done by us americans to help these people and help them reclaim their culture and their happiness?

In time they will find a new identity, in the meantime they need a tough police force.
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brian_eggleston
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10/18/2011 2:32:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/18/2011 1:30:14 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/17/2011 4:45:27 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
What went wrong with the Native Americans? I don't have any statistics right now to back this up, but I was watching a documentary about modern Native American lifestyles. They have the highest suicide rates of all the races in america. Highest alcoholism rates. They have the highest rape and abuse rates. It seems as though their reservations are full of abuse. They don't have a good justice system. The police are spread thin there. When a large crime like murder or rape happens, it goes straight to the feds. The fed's aren't prioritizing the Native American needs, so a lot of crimes go unresolved.

On the reservations, the parents are said to be violent, and the children have "drinking" parties where a girl gets raped "every weekend" according to some of the teens in the video. What is worse, is many of the women feel that they cannot speak up about it, because in a tribal setting, taking action against one person is taking action against a whole family. Many women have been outcasted because of this.

Why did this happen?

Is it a result of alcohol?

Is it the British settler's fault- stripping The Native Americans of their culture, their tribal setting; taking away their connection to earth that kept them together and forcing them to live a new way?

I think that should read... the American settlers fault. And yes.

Good point, the early colonists were Americans when they rebelled against British rule, but British when they oppressed the indigenous population!
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innomen
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10/18/2011 3:02:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/18/2011 1:04:01 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
are there any studies that show that the amish are happier? I've met quite a few amish people, and they are extremely friendly and welcoming, but I would not have labeled them as happier than normal.

They do have exceptional wealth compared to what one might think. They are extremely resourceful and great at making things. If we ever run out of oil before a change in our power sources, I will be happy knowing that I live near amish: they will still be there selling food, seeds, furniture, etc. They won't go into a frenzy like the rest of us. Many of them are allowed to use electricity for their jobs, which probably helps them quite a bit.

I don't agree with a lot of their ways, but it does work for them.

Does this give evidence that a strong economy/ governmental system is needed to keep us living healthy, safe lives?

If the native americans had a firmer justice system, or moral guidelines to follow, they might be in a better place right now. The tribal mentality could work for them rather than against them, like it did many years ago.

It's very interesting how the group with the larger control is more prosperous than the group with the larger free will. Can this be said on a worldwide scale as well, or are their clear distincitons between "large society" and "small groups within society"?

I don't know of a time when a tribal mentality has helped anyone. We don't like to hear it, but assimilation is best for a society.
jimtimmy
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10/18/2011 5:53:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 4:45:27 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
What went wrong with the Native Americans? I don't have any statistics right now to back this up, but I was watching a documentary about modern Native American lifestyles. They have the highest suicide rates of all the races in america. Highest alcoholism rates. They have the highest rape and abuse rates. It seems as though their reservations are full of abuse. They don't have a good justice system. The police are spread thin there. When a large crime like murder or rape happens, it goes straight to the feds. The fed's aren't prioritizing the Native American needs, so a lot of crimes go unresolved.

On the reservations, the parents are said to be violent, and the children have "drinking" parties where a girl gets raped "every weekend" according to some of the teens in the video. What is worse, is many of the women feel that they cannot speak up about it, because in a tribal setting, taking action against one person is taking action against a whole family. Many women have been outcasted because of this.

Why did this happen?

Is it a result of alcohol?

Is it the British settler's fault- stripping The Native Americans of their culture, their tribal setting; taking away their connection to earth that kept them together and forcing them to live a new way?

Are the men suppressed of land, custom, and consequently, egos ? Is this why violence among family members has increased?

What can be done by us americans to help these people and help them reclaim their culture and their happiness?

None of the above... Their irresponsibility has been subsidized by the government... Welfare has destroyed the Native Americans...
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Greyparrot
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10/18/2011 11:16:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Societies are more stable with strong controls and borders. Not everyone can join an Amish community, but the Indians were pretty tolerant and accepting of a great many people (many settlers would have died if the Indians did not take them in).

Perhaps there is a lesson here?
Lickdafoot
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10/18/2011 11:38:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/18/2011 11:16:56 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Societies are more stable with strong controls and borders. Not everyone can join an Amish community, but the Indians were pretty tolerant and accepting of a great many people (many settlers would have died if the Indians did not take them in).

Perhaps there is a lesson here?

but then why are accepting people often the more stable ones?
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Greyparrot
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10/19/2011 12:59:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/18/2011 11:38:28 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 10/18/2011 11:16:56 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Societies are more stable with strong controls and borders. Not everyone can join an Amish community, but the Indians were pretty tolerant and accepting of a great many people (many settlers would have died if the Indians did not take them in).

Perhaps there is a lesson here?

but then why are accepting people often the more stable ones?

Cite examples where accepting societies are more stable?
Ore_Ele
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10/19/2011 11:41:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 10:15:38 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Everyone needs a sense of identity, a sense of place and importance in society. We are herd animals by nature and need a sense of place in that herd. By destroying everything the Indian culture that was sacred to the Indians, we took away thier identity and importance.

You may believe that it would be a simple matter for Indians to adapt to the new cuture of modern technological society, but that is not true. Indians find no place of importance for themselves in such a society, and are not motivated to adapt. Without a sense of purpose, drugs are a quick way to ease the pain of disattachment from a place in society.

That is something that most kids go through in their late teens and 20's. Kids then grow out of it and find a place. Why are the native americans different? Why do they stay detached? Is it because we let them? In our society, there is a social pressure to find your place, find your career and provide for a family and all that jazz. It seems that pressure is not in their society, and since we've allowed them to be detached (they are practically their own nation), we haven't been placing those pressures on them.

Damn, I have an urge to tie this to anarchy and social disolving.
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Lickdafoot
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10/20/2011 12:25:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"Cite examples where accepting societies are more stable?"

I didn't say that. I was just making an observation that what seems to be true of an individual isn't true of a society. It makes sense though. the majority of people are batsh*t, so if you don't give them rules, they will go berserk. It's the same thing with kids.

I see what you are saying though. think of ancient rome or egypt. Both had slaves. Both were prosperous. Is material prosperity the most important thing?

"Also there is a big difference between being tolerant and being a doormat."

of course
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Tiel
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10/20/2011 7:57:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 4:45:27 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
What went wrong with the Native Americans? I don't have any statistics right now to back this up, but I was watching a documentary about modern Native American lifestyles. They have the highest suicide rates of all the races in america. Highest alcoholism rates. They have the highest rape and abuse rates. It seems as though their reservations are full of abuse. They don't have a good justice system. The police are spread thin there. When a large crime like murder or rape happens, it goes straight to the feds. The fed's aren't prioritizing the Native American needs, so a lot of crimes go unresolved.

On the reservations, the parents are said to be violent, and the children have "drinking" parties where a girl gets raped "every weekend" according to some of the teens in the video. What is worse, is many of the women feel that they cannot speak up about it, because in a tribal setting, taking action against one person is taking action against a whole family. Many women have been outcasted because of this.

Why did this happen?

Is it a result of alcohol?

Is it the British settler's fault- stripping The Native Americans of their culture, their tribal setting; taking away their connection to earth that kept them together and forcing them to live a new way?

Are the men suppressed of land, custom, and consequently, egos ? Is this why violence among family members has increased?

What can be done by us americans to help these people and help them reclaim their culture and their happiness?

What happened to Native Americans? White people, capitalism, Christianity.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
seraine
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10/21/2011 10:31:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/20/2011 7:57:32 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 10/17/2011 4:45:27 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
What went wrong with the Native Americans? I don't have any statistics right now to back this up, but I was watching a documentary about modern Native American lifestyles. They have the highest suicide rates of all the races in america. Highest alcoholism rates. They have the highest rape and abuse rates. It seems as though their reservations are full of abuse. They don't have a good justice system. The police are spread thin there. When a large crime like murder or rape happens, it goes straight to the feds. The fed's aren't prioritizing the Native American needs, so a lot of crimes go unresolved.

On the reservations, the parents are said to be violent, and the children have "drinking" parties where a girl gets raped "every weekend" according to some of the teens in the video. What is worse, is many of the women feel that they cannot speak up about it, because in a tribal setting, taking action against one person is taking action against a whole family. Many women have been outcasted because of this.

Why did this happen?

Is it a result of alcohol?

Is it the British settler's fault- stripping The Native Americans of their culture, their tribal setting; taking away their connection to earth that kept them together and forcing them to live a new way?

Are the men suppressed of land, custom, and consequently, egos ? Is this why violence among family members has increased?

What can be done by us americans to help these people and help them reclaim their culture and their happiness?

What happened to Native Americans? White people, capitalism, Christianity.

You racist b*stard.