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Black Africans Written Language!

SuperRobotWars
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11/5/2011 10:41:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I have found two written languages made by Black Africans, and I am quite certain there is more to be found, I just need to have some more in depth research. They are as follows:

-The Bamum Syllabary: Used by the people of Bamum [now part of Cameroon] constructed in 1896 by King Ibrahim Njoya. This written form fell into disuse after the French takeover of Cameroon in which it was banned from being taught. Recent efforts have been made to try and revive the written form.
http://www.omniglot.com...

-The Ndjuká Syllabary: This written form was not constructed within Africa but rather made by the descendants escaped slaves in Suriname. The language it is used to write is an Creole with English and Dutch influences called Ndjuká. This written form [the same as its Romanized counterpart] is only known by about 10% to 20% of it's speakers.
http://www.omniglot.com...

I might make an paper about this if I can get more data, so if anyone has anymore information upon Indigenous African or Semi-Indigenous African written languages it would be greatly appreciated.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/5/2011 11:33:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Here's more data to add to my research:
http://luc.devroye.org...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/5/2011 3:41:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Their page on the English language confuses the hell out of me.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
SuperRobotWars
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11/5/2011 5:39:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 3:41:54 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Their page on the English language confuses the hell out of me.

Whats so confusing?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars speak them.

The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic set back which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
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11/5/2011 7:49:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars read in them.

The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic setback which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars speak them.


No, these written forms are real, they were written by predominantly scholars of Africa but that doesn't make them any less written languages. Plus remember that these were young written forms, if given enough time it is quite likely that they could have become widespread. Plus [at least in the Bamum example] schools were being formed which would have definitely improved literacy.

The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic set back which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel. And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.

Are you serious or just plain joking?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/5/2011 9:07:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 10:41:57 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
I have found two written languages made by Black Africans, and I am quite certain there is more to be found, I just need to have some more in depth research. They are as follows:

-The Bamum Syllabary: Used by the people of Bamum [now part of Cameroon] constructed in 1896 by King Ibrahim Njoya. This written form fell into disuse after the French takeover of Cameroon in which it was banned from being taught. Recent efforts have been made to try and revive the written form.
http://www.omniglot.com...

-The Ndjuká Syllabary: This written form was not constructed within Africa but rather made by the descendants escaped slaves in Suriname. The language it is used to write is an Creole with English and Dutch influences called Ndjuká. This written form [the same as its Romanized counterpart] is only known by about 10% to 20% of it's speakers.
http://www.omniglot.com...

I might make an paper about this if I can get more data, so if anyone has anymore information upon Indigenous African or Semi-Indigenous African written languages it would be greatly appreciated.

I wonder how long it will be until DDO leftists and multiculturalists want to start having debates in these languages?
President of DDO
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/5/2011 9:15:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 9:07:39 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:41:57 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
I have found two written languages made by Black Africans, and I am quite certain there is more to be found, I just need to have some more in depth research. They are as follows:

-The Bamum Syllabary: Used by the people of Bamum [now part of Cameroon] constructed in 1896 by King Ibrahim Njoya. This written form fell into disuse after the French takeover of Cameroon in which it was banned from being taught. Recent efforts have been made to try and revive the written form.
http://www.omniglot.com...

-The Ndjuká Syllabary: This written form was not constructed within Africa but rather made by the descendants escaped slaves in Suriname. The language it is used to write is an Creole with English and Dutch influences called Ndjuká. This written form [the same as its Romanized counterpart] is only known by about 10% to 20% of it's speakers.
http://www.omniglot.com...

I might make an paper about this if I can get more data, so if anyone has anymore information upon Indigenous African or Semi-Indigenous African written languages it would be greatly appreciated.


I wonder how long it will be until DDO leftists and multiculturalists want to start having debates in these languages?

You regurgitate these racially charged comments yet deny being a racist, oh I'm sorry, I believe the pc term is "white supremacist."
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/5/2011 9:19:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.bl.uk...
This article seems interesting enough, Cameroonians are trying to get back these manuscripts.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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11/5/2011 9:32:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars speak them.


No, these written forms are real, they were written by predominantly scholars of Africa but that doesn't make them any less written languages. Plus remember that these were young written forms, if given enough time it is quite likely that they could have become widespread. Plus [at least in the Bamum example] schools were being formed which would have definitely improved literacy.
You don't invent languages that don't exist and then try and create writing forms for them. It doesn't work. Languages are organic and evolving, you can't force them on a people.

The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic set back which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel.
Nope. A select few achieved the level of bronze craft and even less had iron craft. Recently it was found that one group in rural Yoroba knew how to make steel, some of their masks and tools where found preserved well. The joke was that their modern ancestors had no knowledge of metal craft at all.
And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.
That's absolute rubbish. The majority of Africa is tropical fertile, the seasons are ideal for the farming of tropical crops. People have had no trouble cultivating small crops and cattle herding there. By food preservation I mean salting, pickling and drying. Even in Altaic Siberia and Bedouin Arabia people have learned to use the land better than they.

Are you serious or just plain joking?
I'm 100% serious.

They had no literacy, long term houses, political states or advanced crafting skills (leather craft, stone masonry, basic chemistry) until the 1930s. Colonialism and a hostile environment can only explain so much.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/5/2011 9:52:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 9:32:36 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars speak them.


No, these written forms are real, they were written by predominantly scholars of Africa but that doesn't make them any less written languages. Plus remember that these were young written forms, if given enough time it is quite likely that they could have become widespread. Plus [at least in the Bamum example] schools were being formed which would have definitely improved literacy.
You don't invent languages that don't exist and then try and create writing forms for them. It doesn't work. Languages are organic and evolving, you can't force them on a people.

Written forms are invented, we have no biological language [well at least not since prehistory] our languages are completely learned for if our languages are biological why in the name of hell do we need translators. You can force languages on people [see what Spaniards did to Natives, or what the Brit's did to Natives, or better yet what happened to slaves].


The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic set back which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel.
Nope. A select few achieved the level of bronze craft and even less had iron craft. Recently it was found that one group in rural Yoroba knew how to make steel, some of their masks and tools where found preserved well. The joke was that their modern ancestors had no knowledge of metal craft at all.

Many had Iron age equipment, not all but many did.

And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.
That's absolute rubbish. The majority of Africa is tropical fertile, the seasons are ideal for the farming of tropical crops. People have had no trouble cultivating small crops and cattle herding there. By food preservation I mean salting, pickling and drying. Even in Altaic Siberia and Bedouin Arabia people have learned to use the land better than they.

The tropical crops native there decay at fast rates, have you paid any attention to you biology and geography classes.


Are you serious or just plain joking?
I'm 100% serious.


That's shameful.

They had no literacy, long term houses, political states or advanced crafting skills (leather craft, stone masonry, basic chemistry) until the 1930s. Colonialism and a hostile environment can only explain so much.

Actually they had all of those things upon a similar level to that of Feudal Age Europe, and hostile environment explains it all.

I advise you redo your research.

http://wysinger.homestead.com...
http://history-world.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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11/5/2011 10:15:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 9:52:15 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:32:36 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars speak them.


No, these written forms are real, they were written by predominantly scholars of Africa but that doesn't make them any less written languages. Plus remember that these were young written forms, if given enough time it is quite likely that they could have become widespread. Plus [at least in the Bamum example] schools were being formed which would have definitely improved literacy.
You don't invent languages that don't exist and then try and create writing forms for them. It doesn't work. Languages are organic and evolving, you can't force them on a people.

Written forms are invented, we have no biological language [well at least not since prehistory] our languages are completely learned for if our languages are biological why in the name of hell do we need translators. You can force languages on people [see what Spaniards did to Natives, or what the Brit's did to Natives, or better yet what happened to slaves].
You can't put people in schools and say: this is a language we invented: learn it.

English and Spanish already existed and were the languages of they day. They weren't forced, the new system required people to speak the language because it was the lingua franca between the newsetters and the various native peoples who couldn't understand one another. The most well known invented langauge is Esparanto and only a few thousand speak it well. It cannot be done.

The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic set back which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel.
Nope. A select few achieved the level of bronze craft and even less had iron craft. Recently it was found that one group in rural Yoroba knew how to make steel, some of their masks and tools where found preserved well. The joke was that their modern ancestors had no knowledge of metal craft at all.

Many had Iron age equipment, not all but many did.
Less than 5%
And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.
That's absolute rubbish. The majority of Africa is tropical fertile, the seasons are ideal for the farming of tropical crops. People have had no trouble cultivating small crops and cattle herding there. By food preservation I mean salting, pickling and drying. Even in Altaic Siberia and Bedouin Arabia people have learned to use the land better than they.

The tropical crops native there decay at fast rates, have you paid any attention to you biology and geography classes.
This is complete rubbish, whoever taught you that lied and is a fool.
.

Are you serious or just plain joking?
I'm 100% serious.


That's shameful.

They had no literacy, long term houses, political states or advanced crafting skills (leather craft, stone masonry, basic chemistry) until the 1930s. Colonialism and a hostile environment can only explain so much.

Actually they had all of those things upon a similar level to that of Feudal Age Europe, and hostile environment explains it all.
What idiot teaches you history?

Feudal Age Hesse (circa 1340)
Universities
Merchant Class and the Ducat Currancy
Transport and mapping as far China.
Advanced Galleys of the merchant Ships and military kind
Knowledge of classical arts, literature, poetry, oil paintings, plays.
Gothic Architecture,
Advanced Religion

The Kingdom of Kongo (1380)
No form of formal education.
No Currency, people trade it commodities
No knowledge of the outside world.
Not even river log boats
Patterns on wood and stone.
Mud huts.
Human Sacrifice


I advise you redo your research.
You're a funny little man.

http://wysinger.homestead.com...
http://history-world.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Jared Diamond's book is a load of BS, sorry.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/5/2011 10:32:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 9:15:16 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:07:39 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:41:57 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
I have found two written languages made by Black Africans, and I am quite certain there is more to be found, I just need to have some more in depth research. They are as follows:

-The Bamum Syllabary: Used by the people of Bamum [now part of Cameroon] constructed in 1896 by King Ibrahim Njoya. This written form fell into disuse after the French takeover of Cameroon in which it was banned from being taught. Recent efforts have been made to try and revive the written form.
http://www.omniglot.com...

-The Ndjuká Syllabary: This written form was not constructed within Africa but rather made by the descendants escaped slaves in Suriname. The language it is used to write is an Creole with English and Dutch influences called Ndjuká. This written form [the same as its Romanized counterpart] is only known by about 10% to 20% of it's speakers.
http://www.omniglot.com...

I might make an paper about this if I can get more data, so if anyone has anymore information upon Indigenous African or Semi-Indigenous African written languages it would be greatly appreciated.


I wonder how long it will be until DDO leftists and multiculturalists want to start having debates in these languages?

You regurgitate these racially charged comments yet deny being a racist, oh I'm sorry, I believe the pc term is "white supremacist."

What exactly is "racially charged" in my previous comment?
President of DDO
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/5/2011 10:44:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 10:15:58 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:52:15 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:32:36 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars speak them.


No, these written forms are real, they were written by predominantly scholars of Africa but that doesn't make them any less written languages. Plus remember that these were young written forms, if given enough time it is quite likely that they could have become widespread. Plus [at least in the Bamum example] schools were being formed which would have definitely improved literacy.
You don't invent languages that don't exist and then try and create writing forms for them. It doesn't work. Languages are organic and evolving, you can't force them on a people.

Written forms are invented, we have no biological language [well at least not since prehistory] our languages are completely learned for if our languages are biological why in the name of hell do we need translators. You can force languages on people [see what Spaniards did to Natives, or what the Brit's did to Natives, or better yet what happened to slaves].
You can't put people in schools and say: this is a language we invented: learn it.

English and Spanish already existed and were the languages of they day. They weren't forced, the new system required people to speak the language because it was the lingua franca between the newsetters and the various native peoples who couldn't understand one another. The most well known invented langauge is Esparanto and only a few thousand speak it well. It cannot be done.

What about WRITTEN FORMS do you not understand? Mandarin Chinese has a spoken form that was developed before its written form and the same goes for majority of the languages within the world [some are evolved forms such as Spanish which had developed with an written form of a prior spoken form].


The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic set back which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel.
Nope. A select few achieved the level of bronze craft and even less had iron craft. Recently it was found that one group in rural Yoroba knew how to make steel, some of their masks and tools where found preserved well. The joke was that their modern ancestors had no knowledge of metal craft at all.

Many had Iron age equipment, not all but many did.
Less than 5%
And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.
That's absolute rubbish. The majority of Africa is tropical fertile, the seasons are ideal for the farming of tropical crops. People have had no trouble cultivating small crops and cattle herding there. By food preservation I mean salting, pickling and drying. Even in Altaic Siberia and Bedouin Arabia people have learned to use the land better than they.

The tropical crops native there decay at fast rates, have you paid any attention to you biology and geography classes.
This is complete rubbish, whoever taught you that lied and is a fool.
.

Casava decays within three days of harvesting, most crops in Africa behave in a similar manner. You have obviously not familiarized yourself with crops that come from tropical regions.


Are you serious or just plain joking?
I'm 100% serious.


That's shameful.

They had no literacy, long term houses, political states or advanced crafting skills (leather craft, stone masonry, basic chemistry) until the 1930s. Colonialism and a hostile environment can only explain so much.

Actually they had all of those things upon a similar level to that of Feudal Age Europe, and hostile environment explains it all.
What idiot teaches you history?

Feudal Age Hesse (circa 1340)
Universities
Merchant Class and the Ducat Currancy
Transport and mapping as far China.
Advanced Galleys of the merchant Ships and military kind
Knowledge of classical arts, literature, poetry, oil paintings, plays.
Gothic Architecture,
Advanced Religion


The Kingdom of Kongo (1380)
No form of formal education.
No Currency, people trade it commodities
No knowledge of the outside world.
Not even river log boats
Patterns on wood and stone.
Mud huts.
Human Sacrifice


Most of Feudal Europe was the same way.

Why not look at some other African Civilizations:
http://en.wikipedia.org...


I advise you redo your research.
You're a funny little man.


Y tu.

http://wysinger.homestead.com...
http://history-world.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Jared Diamond's book is a load of BS, sorry.

I have to disagree.

Are you saying that Africans are incapable of making an written language form simply because they are African, because if so you have committed a grave fallacy indeed. You seem to have quite a bit of bias against the production of native written languages in Africa, would you care to explain why?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/5/2011 10:48:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 10:32:14 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:15:16 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:07:39 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:41:57 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
I have found two written languages made by Black Africans, and I am quite certain there is more to be found, I just need to have some more in depth research. They are as follows:

-The Bamum Syllabary: Used by the people of Bamum [now part of Cameroon] constructed in 1896 by King Ibrahim Njoya. This written form fell into disuse after the French takeover of Cameroon in which it was banned from being taught. Recent efforts have been made to try and revive the written form.
http://www.omniglot.com...

-The Ndjuká Syllabary: This written form was not constructed within Africa but rather made by the descendants escaped slaves in Suriname. The language it is used to write is an Creole with English and Dutch influences called Ndjuká. This written form [the same as its Romanized counterpart] is only known by about 10% to 20% of it's speakers.
http://www.omniglot.com...

I might make an paper about this if I can get more data, so if anyone has anymore information upon Indigenous African or Semi-Indigenous African written languages it would be greatly appreciated.


I wonder how long it will be until DDO leftists and multiculturalists want to start having debates in these languages?

You regurgitate these racially charged comments yet deny being a racist, oh I'm sorry, I believe the pc term is "white supremacist."

What exactly is "racially charged" in my previous comment?

I actually have to agree with jimmy here, what part of that was racially charged, all he did was show his disdain of liberals and multiculturalists.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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11/5/2011 11:05:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 10:44:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:15:58 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:52:15 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:32:36 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars speak them.


No, these written forms are real, they were written by predominantly scholars of Africa but that doesn't make them any less written languages. Plus remember that these were young written forms, if given enough time it is quite likely that they could have become widespread. Plus [at least in the Bamum example] schools were being formed which would have definitely improved literacy.
You don't invent languages that don't exist and then try and create writing forms for them. It doesn't work. Languages are organic and evolving, you can't force them on a people.

Written forms are invented, we have no biological language [well at least not since prehistory] our languages are completely learned for if our languages are biological why in the name of hell do we need translators. You can force languages on people [see what Spaniards did to Natives, or what the Brit's did to Natives, or better yet what happened to slaves].
You can't put people in schools and say: this is a language we invented: learn it.

English and Spanish already existed and were the languages of they day. They weren't forced, the new system required people to speak the language because it was the lingua franca between the newsetters and the various native peoples who couldn't understand one another. The most well known invented langauge is Esparanto and only a few thousand speak it well. It cannot be done.

What about WRITTEN FORMS do you not understand? Mandarin Chinese has a spoken form that was developed before its written form and the same goes for majority of the languages within the world [some are evolved forms such as Spanish which had developed with an written form of a prior spoken form].
Exactly! But they evolved over millennia. The Han languages have undergone reforms since 800 BC. The last revision of of Chinese was formalised by Mao Zedong as part of his Great Leap Forwards campign.

Who is teaches you history?

What you cannot do is get a group of university professors to invent shapes and call it a writing form and hope to sucessfully impose it on an illiterate population that speak tens of different trible languages.

I speak Southern Dialect of Dinka, Agaar Dinka, as my first language. It has no natural written from simply a latinisation with several letters to match those missing in Europe. My parents got me learn this latinisation when I was 8, is retrospect it was a big waste of time because NO ONE uses it practically.


The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic set back which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel.
Nope. A select few achieved the level of bronze craft and even less had iron craft. Recently it was found that one group in rural Yoroba knew how to make steel, some of their masks and tools where found preserved well. The joke was that their modern ancestors had no knowledge of metal craft at all.

Many had Iron age equipment, not all but many did.
Less than 5%
And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.
That's absolute rubbish. The majority of Africa is tropical fertile, the seasons are ideal for the farming of tropical crops. People have had no trouble cultivating small crops and cattle herding there. By food preservation I mean salting, pickling and drying. Even in Altaic Siberia and Bedouin Arabia people have learned to use the land better than they.

The tropical crops native there decay at fast rates, have you paid any attention to you biology and geography classes.
This is complete rubbish, whoever taught you that lied and is a fool.
.

Casava decays within three days of harvesting, most crops in Africa behave in a similar manner. You have obviously not familiarized yourself with crops that come from tropical regions.
Well who would have nown, it's a root. If you harvest it you kill it. All root plants behave like this. Onions, beetroots, ginger ect.


Are you serious or just plain joking?
I'm 100% serious.


That's shameful.

They had no literacy, long term houses, political states or advanced crafting skills (leather craft, stone masonry, basic chemistry) until the 1930s. Colonialism and a hostile environment can only explain so much.

Actually they had all of those things upon a similar level to that of Feudal Age Europe, and hostile environment explains it all.
What idiot teaches you history?

Feudal Age Hesse (circa 1340)
Universities
Merchant Class and the Ducat Currancy
Transport and mapping as far China.
Advanced Galleys of the merchant Ships and military kind
Knowledge of classical arts, literature, poetry, oil paintings, plays.
Gothic Architecture,
Advanced Religion


The Kingdom of Kongo (1380)
No form of formal education.
No Currency, people trade it commodities
No knowledge of the outside world.
Not even river log boats
Patterns on wood and stone.
Mud huts.
Human Sacrifice


Most of Feudal Europe was the same way.
No, it wasn't. Give me one African state more advanced than European one in the same time period at any point history. Arabic, Berber and Puntian Civilisation don't count.

Why not look at some other African Civilizations:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Yeah, writ large they're just as bad.

I advise you redo your research.
You're a funny little man.


Y tu.

http://wysinger.homestead.com...
http://history-world.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Jared Diamond's book is a load of BS, sorry.

I have to disagree.

Are you saying that Africans are incapable of making an written language form simply because they are African, because if so you have committed a grave fallacy indeed. You seem to have quite a bit of bias against the production of native written languages in Africa, would you care to explain why?
They have an IQ of 85~90. You need a population with a mean IQ greater than 92 or a miracle to civilise. Africa had it better than many, many places and yet didn't think to advance like their North American, European, Low Asian and Oriental peers.

Where are you from?
'sup DDO -- july 2013
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/5/2011 11:33:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 11:05:24 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:44:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:15:58 PM, Zetsubou wrote:

Written forms are invented, we have no biological language [well at least not since prehistory] our languages are completely learned for if our languages are biological why in the name of hell do we need translators. You can force languages on people [see what Spaniards did to Natives, or what the Brit's did to Natives, or better yet what happened to slaves].
You can't put people in schools and say: this is a language we invented: learn it.

English and Spanish already existed and were the languages of they day. They weren't forced, the new system required people to speak the language because it was the lingua franca between the newsetters and the various native peoples who couldn't understand one another. The most well known invented langauge is Esparanto and only a few thousand speak it well. It cannot be done.

What about WRITTEN FORMS do you not understand? Mandarin Chinese has a spoken form that was developed before its written form and the same goes for majority of the languages within the world [some are evolved forms such as Spanish which had developed with an written form of a prior spoken form].
Exactly! But they evolved over millennia. The Han languages have undergone reforms since 800 BC. The last revision of of Chinese was formalised by Mao Zedong as part of his Great Leap Forwards campign.


But all written forms have an beginning in which one decides to use symbols to represent either sounds or objects/ideas which is what I am trying to explain to you, these African civilizations were just beginning to develop written language and you automatically bash on it.

Who is teaches you history?


Textbooks, Historians, and the like.

What you cannot do is get a group of university professors to invent shapes and call it a writing form and hope to sucessfully impose it on an illiterate population that speak tens of different trible languages.


Actually you can, see every written language to date, all were invented by humans and when given time eventually became adopted by populations meant to use the languages in question. And also the written forms I was posting were for languages specific to an particular civilization, they were never intended to work for all African languages.

I speak Southern Dialect of Dinka, Agaar Dinka, as my first language. It has no natural written from simply a latinisation with several letters to match those missing in Europe. My parents got me learn this latinisation when I was 8, is retrospect it was a big waste of time because NO ONE uses it practically.


I can agree with that, its like learning to write in Jamaican Patois, it's pretty much useless outside of Jamaica and has many inconsistencies in spelling.


What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel.
Nope. A select few achieved the level of bronze craft and even less had iron craft. Recently it was found that one group in rural Yoroba knew how to make steel, some of their masks and tools where found preserved well. The joke was that their modern ancestors had no knowledge of metal craft at all.

Many had Iron age equipment, not all but many did.
Less than 5%
And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.
That's absolute rubbish. The majority of Africa is tropical fertile, the seasons are ideal for the farming of tropical crops. People have had no trouble cultivating small crops and cattle herding there. By food preservation I mean salting, pickling and drying. Even in Altaic Siberia and Bedouin Arabia people have learned to use the land better than they.

The tropical crops native there decay at fast rates, have you paid any attention to you biology and geography classes.
This is complete rubbish, whoever taught you that lied and is a fool.
.

Casava decays within three days of harvesting, most crops in Africa behave in a similar manner. You have obviously not familiarized yourself with crops that come from tropical regions.
Well who would have nown, it's a root. If you harvest it you kill it. All root plants behave like this. Onions, beetroots, ginger ect.

Yes but onions, beetroots, and ginger don't decay as fast.


Feudal Age Hesse (circa 1340)
Universities
Merchant Class and the Ducat Currancy
Transport and mapping as far China.
Advanced Galleys of the merchant Ships and military kind
Knowledge of classical arts, literature, poetry, oil paintings, plays.
Gothic Architecture,
Advanced Religion


The Kingdom of Kongo (1380)
No form of formal education.
No Currency, people trade it commodities
No knowledge of the outside world.
Not even river log boats
Patterns on wood and stone.
Mud huts.
Human Sacrifice


Most of Feudal Europe was the same way.
No, it wasn't. Give me one African state more advanced than European one in the same time period at any point history. Arabic, Berber and Puntian Civilisation don't count.


I never said more advanced I just stated they were quite similar to that of Medieval [Feudal] Europe [The Mali was practically an mirror image of it].

Why not look at some other African Civilizations:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Yeah, writ large they're just as bad.

Que?


I advise you redo your research.
You're a funny little man.


Y tu.

http://wysinger.homestead.com...
http://history-world.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Jared Diamond's book is a load of BS, sorry.

I have to disagree.

Are you saying that Africans are incapable of making an written language form simply because they are African, because if so you have committed a grave fallacy indeed. You seem to have quite a bit of bias against the production of native written languages in Africa, would you care to explain why?
They have an IQ of 85~90. You need a population with a mean IQ greater than 92 or a miracle to civilise. Africa had it better than many, many places and yet didn't think to advance like their North American, European, Low Asian and Oriental peers.


What in the name of hell are you talking about? Africa already had civilization [hence it was civilized], you see those Empires I had cited, those are all examples of Civilizations. Where did you get the idea that Africa wasn't civilized?

http://www.upress.virginia.edu...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://wysinger.homestead.com...

But hey, if you don't want to believe that there were ever civilizations in Africa all credence to you, just don't expect me to fall for that nonsense when archaeological evidence disproves it.

Where are you from?

The USA and descended from Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Native Americans, Aborigines, Germans, Sub-Saharan Africans, Britons, and several others, ?Y tu?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/5/2011 11:37:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 11:16:39 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Forgive me on the general incoherence, I've been up for a long time.

Didn't see this response.

It's all good. ;3
One question, did you purposefully switch from written language to civilization or was that just an error because if it was the former you would be denying the existence of all of the African empires I sited as well as the ones that were recorded by Europeans and East Asians.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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11/5/2011 11:38:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 11:05:24 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:44:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:15:58 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:52:15 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:32:36 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars speak them.


No, these written forms are real, they were written by predominantly scholars of Africa but that doesn't make them any less written languages. Plus remember that these were young written forms, if given enough time it is quite likely that they could have become widespread. Plus [at least in the Bamum example] schools were being formed which would have definitely improved literacy.
You don't invent languages that don't exist and then try and create writing forms for them. It doesn't work. Languages are organic and evolving, you can't force them on a people.

Written forms are invented, we have no biological language [well at least not since prehistory] our languages are completely learned for if our languages are biological why in the name of hell do we need translators. You can force languages on people [see what Spaniards did to Natives, or what the Brit's did to Natives, or better yet what happened to slaves].
You can't put people in schools and say: this is a language we invented: learn it.

English and Spanish already existed and were the languages of they day. They weren't forced, the new system required people to speak the language because it was the lingua franca between the newsetters and the various native peoples who couldn't understand one another. The most well known invented langauge is Esparanto and only a few thousand speak it well. It cannot be done.

What about WRITTEN FORMS do you not understand? Mandarin Chinese has a spoken form that was developed before its written form and the same goes for majority of the languages within the world [some are evolved forms such as Spanish which had developed with an written form of a prior spoken form].
Exactly! But they evolved over millennia. The Han languages have undergone reforms since 800 BC. The last revision of of Chinese was formalised by Mao Zedong as part of his Great Leap Forwards campign.

Who is teaches you history?

What you cannot do is get a group of university professors to invent shapes and call it a writing form and hope to sucessfully impose it on an illiterate population that speak tens of different trible languages.

I speak Southern Dialect of Dinka, Agaar Dinka, as my first language. It has no natural written from simply a latinisation with several letters to match those missing in Europe. My parents got me learn this latinisation when I was 8, is retrospect it was a big waste of time because NO ONE uses it practically.


The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic set back which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel.
Nope. A select few achieved the level of bronze craft and even less had iron craft. Recently it was found that one group in rural Yoroba knew how to make steel, some of their masks and tools where found preserved well. The joke was that their modern ancestors had no knowledge of metal craft at all.

Many had Iron age equipment, not all but many did.
Less than 5%
And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.
That's absolute rubbish. The majority of Africa is tropical fertile, the seasons are ideal for the farming of tropical crops. People have had no trouble cultivating small crops and cattle herding there. By food preservation I mean salting, pickling and drying. Even in Altaic Siberia and Bedouin Arabia people have learned to use the land better than they.

The tropical crops native there decay at fast rates, have you paid any attention to you biology and geography classes.
This is complete rubbish, whoever taught you that lied and is a fool.
.

Casava decays within three days of harvesting, most crops in Africa behave in a similar manner. You have obviously not familiarized yourself with crops that come from tropical regions.
Well who would have nown, it's a root. If you harvest it you kill it. All root plants behave like this. Onions, beetroots, ginger ect.


Are you serious or just plain joking?
I'm 100% serious.


That's shameful.

They had no literacy, long term houses, political states or advanced crafting skills (leather craft, stone masonry, basic chemistry) until the 1930s. Colonialism and a hostile environment can only explain so much.

Actually they had all of those things upon a similar level to that of Feudal Age Europe, and hostile environment explains it all.
What idiot teaches you history?

Feudal Age Hesse (circa 1340)
Universities
Merchant Class and the Ducat Currancy
Transport and mapping as far China.
Advanced Galleys of the merchant Ships and military kind
Knowledge of classical arts, literature, poetry, oil paintings, plays.
Gothic Architecture,
Advanced Religion


The Kingdom of Kongo (1380)
No form of formal education.
No Currency, people trade it commodities
No knowledge of the outside world.
Not even river log boats
Patterns on wood and stone.
Mud huts.
Human Sacrifice


Most of Feudal Europe was the same way.
No, it wasn't. Give me one African state more advanced than European one in the same time period at any point history. Arabic, Berber and Puntian Civilisation don't count.

Why not look at some other African Civilizations:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Yeah, writ large they're just as bad.

I advise you redo your research.
You're a funny little man.


Y tu.

http://wysinger.homestead.com...
http://history-world.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Jared Diamond's book is a load of BS, sorry.

I have to disagree.

Are you saying that Africans are incapable of making an written language form simply because they are African, because if so you have committed a grave fallacy indeed. You seem to have quite a bit of bias against the production of native written languages in Africa, would you care to explain why?
They have an IQ of 85~90. You need a population with a mean IQ greater than 92 or a miracle to civilise. Africa had it better than many, many places and yet didn't think to advance like their North American, European, Low Asian and Oriental peers.

Where are you from?

Thank God there is another hereditarian on DDO!
President of DDO
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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11/5/2011 11:46:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 5:39:38 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 3:41:54 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Their page on the English language confuses the hell out of me.

Whats so confusing?

Look at how many people allegedly use the language.

I know that number is not accurate.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/5/2011 11:54:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 11:46:50 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 11/5/2011 5:39:38 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 3:41:54 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Their page on the English language confuses the hell out of me.

Whats so confusing?

Look at how many people allegedly use the language.

I know that number is not accurate.

I never noticed that before, it states 617 million people speak the language but I thought it was 1 billion [1/7th the world population].
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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11/6/2011 12:10:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 11:33:04 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 11:05:24 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:44:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

But all written forms have an beginning in which one decides to use symbols to represent either sounds or objects/ideas which is what I am trying to explain to you, these African civilizations were just beginning to develop written language and you automatically bash on it.
No, they were not. All modern scripts have a common ancestor.
Who is teaches you history?


Textbooks, Historians, and the like.
Lol, you've been reading crap.

What you cannot do is get a group of university professors to invent shapes and call it a writing form and hope to sucessfully impose it on an illiterate population that speak tens of different trible languages.


Actually you can, see every written language to date, all were invented by humans and when given time eventually became adopted by populations meant to use the languages in question.
Languages evolve they're not made. People make languages not professors. The English we write in has a Roman script, this is Greek in origin which in turn comes from Phoenician script used in the Levant. No one made them.
And also the written forms I was posting were for languages specific to an particular civilization, they were never intended to work for all African languages.
They were both patois, nobody speaks them or writes in them.

I speak Southern Dialect of Dinka, Agaar Dinka, as my first language. It has no natural written from simply a latinisation with several letters to match those missing in Europe. My parents got me learn this latinisation when I was 8, is retrospect it was a big waste of time because NO ONE uses it practically.


I can agree with that, its like learning to write in Jamaican Patois, it's pretty much useless outside of Jamaica and has many inconsistencies in spelling.
Your proposition is even worse.

Yes but onions, beetroots, and ginger don't decay as fast.
THEY DON'T DECAY. AS SOON AS YOU HARVEST IT IT DIES. YOU HAVE TO KILL IT TO EAT IT.

Also, what about watermelons, melons, mangos and African berries. These are plant fruits. People in Siberia learned to eat tree back, they also learned leather craft and domesticated yaks and dogs.

No, it wasn't. Give me one African state more advanced than European one in the same time period at any point history. Arabic, Berber and Puntian Civilisation don't count.


I never said more advanced I just stated they were quite similar to that of Medieval [Feudal] Europe [The Mali was practically an mirror image of it].
No, it wasn't. Their arabic rulers ordered the contruction of a stone carved fortress/mosque. What features of the Mali Empire were even close to that of Europe?

Also, Mali was afro-arabic. A nation of mixed descent.
Why not look at some other African Civilizations:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Yeah, writ large they're just as bad.

Que?
Que, what?

They have an IQ of 85~90. You need a population with a mean IQ greater than 92 or a miracle to civilise. Africa had it better than many, many places and yet didn't think to advance like their North American, European, Low Asian and Oriental peers.


What in the name of hell are you talking about? Africa already had civilization [hence it was civilized], you see those Empires I had cited, those are all examples of Civilizations. Where did you get the idea that Africa wasn't civilized?
Yeah, they were rubbish and all decayed. You linking me to histoical case studies you yourself fail to understand.

But hey, if you don't want to believe that there were ever civilizations in Africa all credence to you, just don't expect me to fall for that nonsense when archaeological evidence disproves it.
They're tribal federations; you can hardly call them civilisations. Choose one and I'll explain it in depth. My African history is very good.

Where are you from?

The USA and descended from Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Native Americans, Aborigines, Germans, Sub-Saharan Africans, Britons, and several others,
Wooooohhhh, bro.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/6/2011 6:13:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel. And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.

Are you serious or just plain joking?

When were the Africans producing steel? But anyway if you can make steel you can make high quality firearms.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/6/2011 6:14:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 9:07:39 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
Look at me look at me look at me! I am a scary racist... trololololol. Oh noes somene is holding me to account for my sh1t.

Cool story bro.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/6/2011 7:05:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 6:13:32 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel. And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.

Are you serious or just plain joking?

When were the Africans producing steel? But anyway if you can make steel you can make high quality firearms.

I meant to say decent iron working, but firearms require that you are able to round the steel and that type of technology did not exist in Africa [from what I had seen].
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/6/2011 8:02:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 12:10:41 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 11:33:04 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 11:05:24 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 10:44:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:

But all written forms have an beginning in which one decides to use symbols to represent either sounds or objects/ideas which is what I am trying to explain to you, these African civilizations were just beginning to develop written language and you automatically bash on it.
No, they were not. All modern scripts have a common ancestor.

Hanzi was developed independent of Greek Roman and runic, your statement here is false.

Who is teaches you history?


Textbooks, Historians, and the like.
Lol, you've been reading crap.

What you cannot do is get a group of university professors to invent shapes and call it a writing form and hope to sucessfully impose it on an illiterate population that speak tens of different trible languages.


Actually you can, see every written language to date, all were invented by humans and when given time eventually became adopted by populations meant to use the languages in question.
Languages evolve they're not made. People make languages not professors. The English we write in has a Roman script, this is Greek in origin which in turn comes from Phoenician script used in the Levant. No one made them.

These written forms were invented, sure written forms evolve [the same way computer programs do] but they are no less invented. You seem to think that humans have some sort of biological drive to produce written languages, well we don't.

And also the written forms I was posting were for languages specific to an particular civilization, they were never intended to work for all African languages.
They were both patois, nobody speaks them or writes in them.

No, the last was [a creole to be exact], but Bamum was an full fledged language. Also technically English is an Creole/Patwa with German and French influences.

Also Patois are spoken and written in: http://www.jumieka.com...


I speak Southern Dialect of Dinka, Agaar Dinka, as my first language. It has no natural written from simply a latinisation with several letters to match those missing in Europe. My parents got me learn this latinisation when I was 8, is retrospect it was a big waste of time because NO ONE uses it practically.


I can agree with that, its like learning to write in Jamaican Patois, it's pretty much useless outside of Jamaica and has many inconsistencies in spelling.
Your proposition is even worse.

What proposition? I was just stating that there were some African written forms and that I wanted any further information on the subject so that I could write a paper about it. What do you think that I want to revive these written forms? I don't but if these Africans want to use their own ancient forms and you don't then let then just don't attempt to learn it. Sheesh.


Yes but onions, beetroots, and ginger don't decay as fast.
THEY DON'T DECAY. AS SOON AS YOU HARVEST IT IT DIES. YOU HAVE TO KILL IT TO EAT IT.

What are you saying? Yes you kill it upon harvesting, decay is an completely different thing. If I kill you and embalm you you wont decay as fast as the animal that I have just killed. Decay is not death, decay is the amount of time it takes for the remnants of the organism to rot.


Also, what about watermelons, melons, mangos and African berries. These are plant fruits. People in Siberia learned to eat tree back, they also learned leather craft and domesticated yaks and dogs.

Watermelons, melons, mangoes, and fruit in general [mostly water and sugar which is very conducive to decay] don't last long upon picking [trust me, my family grows the dang things] if you don't have access to refrigeration, plus you must realize how many more insects you have to deal with in Africa that would potentially destroy the crop [which is why drying them to make dates doesn't work]. Most animals from Africa are not suitable for domestication [but they did oftentimes tame male hyenas, but never in large quantities unless you lived in Egypt] hell modern scientists have even attempted to tame them but the problem is that most animals in Africa are to skittish. Africans did have leather craft of their own [ http://www.ehow.co.uk... ]. And as for your "tree back" [tree bark I believe you mean] statement you fail to recognize that these are different plants from different regions. To build large civilizations you need to have food that will not perish easily, and unfortunately Africa has climate and conditions that make food perish faster.

http://en.wikipedia.org...


No, it wasn't. Give me one African state more advanced than European one in the same time period at any point history. Arabic, Berber and Puntian Civilisation don't count.


I never said more advanced I just stated they were quite similar to that of Medieval [Feudal] Europe [The Mali was practically an mirror image of it].
No, it wasn't. Their arabic rulers ordered the contruction of a stone carved fortress/mosque. What features of the Mali Empire were even close to that of Europe?

No you are referencing their mass conversion to Islam, that was done for the sake of trade, nothing else.
The use of mounted armored soldiers, existence of palaces, theocracy [you didn't convert you would either be ostracized or forced to live with a low status], wars between families [clans], monarchy, etc.


Also, Mali was afro-arabic. A nation of mixed descent.

Some Arabians did migrate there later in the history of the Empire yes why is this remotely relevant, It is still an Empire that was predominantly African.

Why not look at some other African Civilizations:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Yeah, writ large they're just as bad.

Que?
Que, what?


What did you mean in your post?

They have an IQ of 85~90. You need a population with a mean IQ greater than 92 or a miracle to civilise. Africa had it better than many, many places and yet didn't think to advance like their North American, European, Low Asian and Oriental peers.


What in the name of hell are you talking about? Africa already had civilization [hence it was civilized], you see those Empires I had cited, those are all examples of Civilizations. Where did you get the idea that Africa wasn't civilized?
Yeah, they were rubbish and all decayed. You linking me to histoical case studies you yourself fail to understand.


What do you mean by "they were rubbish and all decayed"?
You are repeating the same thing over and over again and I keep on siting new evidence and refuting your claims, I understand the studies and information I posted, you don't you just call it false and say it's impossible.

But hey, if you don't want to believe that there were ever civilizations in Africa all credence to you, just don't expect me to fall for that nonsense when archaeological evidence disproves it.
They're tribal federations; you can hardly call them civilisations. Choose one and I'll explain it in depth. My African history is very good.


They weren't tribal [highly clan influenced like Feudal Japan but they had ceased being tribal], they had cities and towns, spoken language, culture, trade, currency, art, [etc . . .] they were civilizations. I highly doubt your African history is any good, you seem don't believe it was even remotely possible for Africans to have civilization which most modern historians disagree with. Whats the name of the history textbook you learned from?

The USA and descended from Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Native Americans, Aborigines, Germans, Sub-Saharan Africans, Br
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
SuperRobotWars
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11/6/2011 8:05:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://catdir.loc.gov...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Wnope
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11/6/2011 3:19:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/5/2011 10:15:58 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:52:15 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:32:36 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 11/5/2011 9:01:54 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 11/5/2011 7:43:44 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Both are inventions of 20th Century afro-centrists, sorry. No one but scholars speak them.


No, these written forms are real, they were written by predominantly scholars of Africa but that doesn't make them any less written languages. Plus remember that these were young written forms, if given enough time it is quite likely that they could have become widespread. Plus [at least in the Bamum example] schools were being formed which would have definitely improved literacy.
You don't invent languages that don't exist and then try and create writing forms for them. It doesn't work. Languages are organic and evolving, you can't force them on a people.

Written forms are invented, we have no biological language [well at least not since prehistory] our languages are completely learned for if our languages are biological why in the name of hell do we need translators. You can force languages on people [see what Spaniards did to Natives, or what the Brit's did to Natives, or better yet what happened to slaves].
You can't put people in schools and say: this is a language we invented: learn it.

English and Spanish already existed and were the languages of they day. They weren't forced, the new system required people to speak the language because it was the lingua franca between the newsetters and the various native peoples who couldn't understand one another. The most well known invented langauge is Esparanto and only a few thousand speak it well. It cannot be done.

The African mean IQ is too low for any real writing forms. It is this basic set back which stopped the development of many African Societies - skills like steel production, food preservation techniques were lost because information could not be recorded.

What? Africans had pretty advanced metalworking, maybe not capable of producing fine quality firearms but they could make decent steel.
Nope. A select few achieved the level of bronze craft and even less had iron craft. Recently it was found that one group in rural Yoroba knew how to make steel, some of their masks and tools where found preserved well. The joke was that their modern ancestors had no knowledge of metal craft at all.

Many had Iron age equipment, not all but many did.
Less than 5%
And as for preservation, most of the crops that were grown in Africa [unfortunately] are prone to quick rot and are not easily preservable without the assistance of modern preservation techniques.
That's absolute rubbish. The majority of Africa is tropical fertile, the seasons are ideal for the farming of tropical crops. People have had no trouble cultivating small crops and cattle herding there. By food preservation I mean salting, pickling and drying. Even in Altaic Siberia and Bedouin Arabia people have learned to use the land better than they.

The tropical crops native there decay at fast rates, have you paid any attention to you biology and geography classes.
This is complete rubbish, whoever taught you that lied and is a fool.
.

Are you serious or just plain joking?
I'm 100% serious.


That's shameful.

They had no literacy, long term houses, political states or advanced crafting skills (leather craft, stone masonry, basic chemistry) until the 1930s. Colonialism and a hostile environment can only explain so much.

Actually they had all of those things upon a similar level to that of Feudal Age Europe, and hostile environment explains it all.
What idiot teaches you history?

Feudal Age Hesse (circa 1340)
Universities
Merchant Class and the Ducat Currancy
Transport and mapping as far China.
Advanced Galleys of the merchant Ships and military kind
Knowledge of classical arts, literature, poetry, oil paintings, plays.
Gothic Architecture,
Advanced Religion


The Kingdom of Kongo (1380)
No form of formal education.
No Currency, people trade it commodities
No knowledge of the outside world.
Not even river log boats
Patterns on wood and stone.
Mud huts.
Human Sacrifice


I advise you redo your research.
You're a funny little man.

http://wysinger.homestead.com...
http://history-world.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Jared Diamond's book is a load of BS, sorry.

Would you mind expanding on that?

Where do you find Ecological-Evolutionary Theory (Diamond's methodology) totally inadequate?

We all know it holds society and culture as a black box. The question is do you have any real problem with Lenski's theories other than "but blacks are STUPIDER."

For instance, do you hold that technology DOES travel faster north to south than east to west? That staple foods and domesticable animals are geographically spread equally throughout the world?

What is a prediction of Eco-Evo theory that you find fails? Try to be a bit more empirical "but I'ze tellin ya, look at dese studies, blacks are STUPIDER."