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Norway's "Luxury Prison"

DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/6/2011 11:08:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Norway's Halden prison is probably the most progressive prison in the world, where inmates (including serial killers and the like) get to stay in their own rooms with private bathrooms, flatscreen TVs, etc. They play games with the guards, like soccer and football, have barbeques, go skiing, and other things of that nature--all in the name of rehabilitation vs retribution. http://alexmasi.photoshelter.com...

But, even though I initially found this odd, luxury prison has been successful. Recidivism rates of inmates (called "residents") are much lower than the retributive prisons here in the States (about 1 in 5, or 20%).

What do you think?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/6/2011 11:10:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
What the hell, just for that I'm going over there to break the law.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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11/6/2011 11:12:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:08:51 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Norway's Halden prison is probably the most progressive prison in the world, where inmates (including serial killers and the like) get to stay in their own rooms with private bathrooms, flatscreen TVs, etc. They play games with the guards, like soccer and football, have barbeques, go skiing, and other things of that nature--all in the name of rehabilitation vs retribution. http://alexmasi.photoshelter.com...

But, even though I initially found this odd, luxury prison has been successful. Recidivism rates of inmates (called "residents") are much lower than the retributive prisons here in the States (about 1 in 5, or 20%).

What do you think?

I can think of no greater disrespect to innocent victims than to turn prison into a hotel.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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11/6/2011 11:25:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I can think of no greater disrespect to innocent victims than to turn prison into a hotel.

So you think 'respect' is more important than actually reforming criminals and reducing crime rates?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/6/2011 11:37:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:10:22 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
What the hell, just for that I'm going over there to break the law.

Another good reason to get an education.

I you get a good education, your likely to meet the immigration standards. Then once you become a Norway citizen, you can go on a killing spree.
Open borders debate:
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/6/2011 11:40:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:25:21 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I can think of no greater disrespect to innocent victims than to turn prison into a hotel.

So you think 'respect' is more important than actually reforming criminals and reducing crime rates?

Who wouldn't want to break the law? No taxes, free tv, no rent, no mortgages, free food? This is not rehabilitation, its incentive. I never quite like when people draw up isolated experiments as support for a claim because in the end, such statistics don't prove, support or say anything of value on the large scale.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/6/2011 11:54:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:40:56 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:25:21 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I can think of no greater disrespect to innocent victims than to turn prison into a hotel.

So you think 'respect' is more important than actually reforming criminals and reducing crime rates?

Who wouldn't want to break the law? No taxes, free tv, no rent, no mortgages, free food? This is not rehabilitation, its incentive. I never quite like when people draw up isolated experiments as support for a claim because in the end, such statistics don't prove, support or say anything of value on the large scale.

It actually isn't an isolated experiment. This prison is just the most luxurious. In fact, the majority of Norwegian prisons are like this.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/6/2011 11:57:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:54:48 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:40:56 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:25:21 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I can think of no greater disrespect to innocent victims than to turn prison into a hotel.

So you think 'respect' is more important than actually reforming criminals and reducing crime rates?

Who wouldn't want to break the law? No taxes, free tv, no rent, no mortgages, free food? This is not rehabilitation, its incentive. I never quite like when people draw up isolated experiments as support for a claim because in the end, such statistics don't prove, support or say anything of value on the large scale.

It actually isn't an isolated experiment. This prison is just the most luxurious. In fact, the majority of Norwegian prisons are like this.

Well, so long as that isn't used to support an argument for why luxury prisons should go global. By the way, how has this reduced crime in Norway?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/6/2011 11:59:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:57:43 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:54:48 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:40:56 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:25:21 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I can think of no greater disrespect to innocent victims than to turn prison into a hotel.

So you think 'respect' is more important than actually reforming criminals and reducing crime rates?

Who wouldn't want to break the law? No taxes, free tv, no rent, no mortgages, free food? This is not rehabilitation, its incentive. I never quite like when people draw up isolated experiments as support for a claim because in the end, such statistics don't prove, support or say anything of value on the large scale.

It actually isn't an isolated experiment. This prison is just the most luxurious. In fact, the majority of Norwegian prisons are like this.

Well, so long as that isn't used to support an argument for why luxury prisons should go global. By the way, how has this reduced crime in Norway?

After they were installed, crime rates (and recidivism rates) fell to 1/3rd the size of the US's rates.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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11/6/2011 11:59:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:25:21 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I can think of no greater disrespect to innocent victims than to turn prison into a hotel.

So you think 'respect' is more important than actually reforming criminals and reducing crime rates?

Norway's recidivism rate being lower =/= honoring criminals and giving them free stuff lowers recidivism. America has an awful prison system, but not because it's too harsh.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/6/2011 12:05:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:59:16 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:

After they were installed, crime rates (and recidivism rates) fell to 1/3rd the size of the US's rates.

Do you have the statistics that compare norway before to norway after? When you add a country 20 times the size of Norway and start comparing, I'm more inclined to be sceptical of the weight and relevance of such a claim.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/6/2011 12:10:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 12:05:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:59:16 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:

After they were installed, crime rates (and recidivism rates) fell to 1/3rd the size of the US's rates.

Do you have the statistics that compare norway before to norway after? When you add a country 20 times the size of Norway and start comparing, I'm more inclined to be sceptical of the weight and relevance of such a claim.

Also add that all things being equal, such a policy could not be universally implemented. Start placing these in the US and you will find crime rates to increase since America tends to have high levels of poverty for a developed nation. People without health insurance have actually broken laws to get free health care in prison.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/6/2011 12:14:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 12:10:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 11/6/2011 12:05:23 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:59:16 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:

After they were installed, crime rates (and recidivism rates) fell to 1/3rd the size of the US's rates.

Do you have the statistics that compare norway before to norway after? When you add a country 20 times the size of Norway and start comparing, I'm more inclined to be sceptical of the weight and relevance of such a claim.

Also add that all things being equal, such a policy could not be universally implemented. Start placing these in the US and you will find crime rates to increase since America tends to have high levels of poverty for a developed nation. People without health insurance have actually broken laws to get free health care in prison.

This^

I'm for the IDEA of these prisons, but I think it can obviously be agreed that in the USA such a system would be a total failure.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,239
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11/6/2011 12:36:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:59:16 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:57:43 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:54:48 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:40:56 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:25:21 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I can think of no greater disrespect to innocent victims than to turn prison into a hotel.

So you think 'respect' is more important than actually reforming criminals and reducing crime rates?

Who wouldn't want to break the law? No taxes, free tv, no rent, no mortgages, free food? This is not rehabilitation, its incentive. I never quite like when people draw up isolated experiments as support for a claim because in the end, such statistics don't prove, support or say anything of value on the large scale.

It actually isn't an isolated experiment. This prison is just the most luxurious. In fact, the majority of Norwegian prisons are like this.

Well, so long as that isn't used to support an argument for why luxury prisons should go global. By the way, how has this reduced crime in Norway?

After they were installed, crime rates (and recidivism rates) fell to 1/3rd the size of the US's rates.

Well that's pretty easy to explain then, criminals are not asking for parole and are not getting forced out of prison so there is you reduction in crime rate :P

As for recidivism... can't explain that one.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/6/2011 12:44:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 12:36:58 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

Well that's pretty easy to explain then, criminals are not asking for parole and are not getting forced out of prison so there is you reduction in crime rate :P

As for recidivism... can't explain that one.

US prison system is kind of designed as a "man eat man" world. There's something about being with a bunch of prisoners living under the bare necessities, oh and being screwed after leaving prison that tend to make people act like d!cks later on in life.

Also, humans are actually programmed to be empathic and reciprocate altruism. If society is an @ss to you, there's no surprise that your an @ss back to society.
Open borders debate:
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/6/2011 12:45:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Rehabilitation through punishment. BS to any other method.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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11/6/2011 12:58:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The most hilarious part of this is the guards teaching them music and art and training them. The captions to those pictures are funny too. Also most of the guards happen to be women.

I think the biggest issue no one is considering is the lack of freedom. People say they want to commit crimes just to get in there. However, would you trade your freedom away for a nice room and a flatscreen TV?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/6/2011 1:08:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 12:58:53 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
The most hilarious part of this is the guards teaching them music and art and training them. The captions to those pictures are funny too. Also most of the guards happen to be women.

I think the biggest issue no one is considering is the lack of freedom. People say they want to commit crimes just to get in there. However, would you trade your freedom away for a nice room and a flatscreen TV?

It is a scary thought being taught music and art :p.
Open borders debate:
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/6/2011 1:10:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 12:58:53 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I think the biggest issue no one is considering is the lack of freedom. People say they want to commit crimes just to get in there. However, would you trade your freedom away for a nice room and a flatscreen TV?
And free healthy food, gym, many friends, and safety? Yes many people would do that. It depends on their personas and goals in life. I once met a homeless person who said he did not want to live in an apartment offered by the state because they don't allow his dog to live with him, and he considered his dog to be very close to him. So because of this, he traded comfort for the dog.

Interesting world we live in.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/6/2011 1:20:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 12:58:53 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
The most hilarious part of this is the guards teaching them music and art and training them. The captions to those pictures are funny too. Also most of the guards happen to be women.

I think the biggest issue no one is considering is the lack of freedom. People say they want to commit crimes just to get in there. However, would you trade your freedom away for a nice room and a flatscreen TV?

yes lol. Living with one's parents is a great example of how survival and comfort outweighs freedom.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/6/2011 1:27:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 11:37:17 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 11/6/2011 11:10:22 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
What the hell, just for that I'm going over there to break the law.

Another good reason to get an education.

I you get a good education, your likely to meet the immigration standards. Then once you become a Norway citizen, you can go on a killing spree.

Exactly, then its free amenities for life.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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11/6/2011 4:23:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 12:44:15 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 11/6/2011 12:36:58 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

Well that's pretty easy to explain then, criminals are not asking for parole and are not getting forced out of prison so there is you reduction in crime rate :P

As for recidivism... can't explain that one.

US prison system is kind of designed as a "man eat man" world. There's something about being with a bunch of prisoners living under the bare necessities, oh and being screwed after leaving prison that tend to make people act like d!cks later on in life.

Also, humans are actually programmed to be empathic and reciprocate altruism. If society is an @ss to you, there's no surprise that your an @ss back to society.

interesting.
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kogline
Posts: 134
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11/8/2011 12:45:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/6/2011 12:58:53 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

I think the biggest issue no one is considering is the lack of freedom. People say they want to commit crimes just to get in there. However, would you trade your freedom away for a nice room and a flatscreen TV?

i use my freedom to sit in a nice room and watch tv, if i went to this prison i wouldnt have to work 40 hours a week to support this. so i would actually be gaining freedom.
if state farm has perfected teleportation technology why do they still sell car insurance?