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Lasagna
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12/13/2011 10:12:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So a few nights ago I fell asleep and woke up at about 3:30am to the sound of banging in the back of my house. I figured it was my roommate but my dog kept barking and I kept hearing more banging. I finally got up after 30 seconds or so and I could hear my roommate yelling for me to call the cops because this guy was at our door and he was trying to kick it in. At first I couldn't believe it and I thought I was paranoid or something, but I could tell by the look on his face that it was for real. He was barricading the door as this guy kept trying to kick it open (it was locked).

I did as he said and called the cops, although I wasn't happy about doing it. I was sort of in shock though and I realized as I looked round my house that I had nothing to speak of in terms of a good weapon to defend myself. I grabbed a frying pan as I dialed 911 and stood there behind my roommate as the guy kept banging on the door.

By this time I could make out that he was black out drunk, and he was yelling in spanish and didn't know any english. There's a little window in my door and he was pressing his face against it and pointing at us and yelling. We stood there like that for a few minutes until the cops came and started asking him questions. It was late so we just stayed inside and let them take care of it.

The cop came in for a second, for no other reason than to warn me that I shouldn't have said I was going to attack the man if he didn't leave while talking to dispatch. I mentioned while I was in a frenzy that I might have to beat this guy's head in if he got through the door.

Since he said he thought he was at his friend's house, they couldn't arrest him and let him go. Officers apparently need several criteria to make an arrest, and intent is one of them. Since he didn't actually make it inside, they didn't treat it seriously. He proceeded to walk straight to another house and do the same thing, where he was finally arrested for prowling and disorderly conduct.

The officer told me that if I had hurt him, I would be in serious trouble. The 911 lady shouted at me to refrain from attacking him. I felt like I should have handled the situation with the frying pan and not the police. I feel like I was handled; that the natural reaction for me to protect my home against someone terrorizing me shouldn't have been suppressed. I feel like the next person dealt with the trouble unnecessarily, and that I could have put an end to his night more effectively than the police.

At the same time that I believe I should have taken matters into my own hands, I also realize that I could be looking at prison-time (not to mention the complete destruction of my future abiltiy to find work) if I hadn't called the cops. If I went out there and told him to get lost and he played my card, I would have swung at him and he would have pressed charges against me. I used to listen to this conservative talkshow host about ten years ago who got me into politics, G Gordon Liddy, and he advised one time that if you attack an intruder, make sure you kill them. When the cops come, the dead intruder will not be able to claim he had no intent to hurt you.

Now I have to pay the system to process this guy and tarnish his record. For what? To make it even more impossible for him to work? An azz-kicking would have taught him his lesson without sacrificing his ability to make something out of his life.
Rob
vmpire321
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12/13/2011 11:37:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hmm interesting story,...

>Usually, wouldn't the entrance to your backyard be locked?

>A beating wouldn't necessarily "fixed" him... From what I can tell, he didn't mean to trespass.

>And LOL@ the police in your area... I doubt any of the cops in my area would care if I blew a hole in a trespasser with a shotgun...XD
Ragnar_Rahl
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12/13/2011 11:58:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/13/2011 11:37:16 PM, vmpire321 wrote:
Hmm interesting story,...

>Usually, wouldn't the entrance to your backyard be locked?

>A beating wouldn't necessarily "fixed" him... From what I can tell, he didn't mean to trespass.
Lrn2read: "He proceeded to walk straight to another house and do the same thing"

Yes, it should have been permissible for you to beat/kill this man Lasagna.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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12/14/2011 1:23:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 12:10:52 AM, Wnope wrote:
If he had stepped foot into your house, I don't see how they could blame you for braining him with a blunt object.

^ Yeah that. I can't see how you could be faulted for protecting yourself against someone who is breaking into your house.

This reminds me of a 911 call I once made. I was walking to my car from a friends house late at night and just over a hill, across a street, and behind some houses were a lot of people screaming and arguing. Finally, someone yelled "HE HAS A GUN!" and, with shrieks of utter terror, a group of terrified people ran away from the scene. I called 911 right before the "HE HAS A GUN!" yell and when I relayed the message to them, they encouraged me to get closer and make sure. I literally said, "WHAT? NO! I'm not getting any closer to them! That guy just said the other guy has a gun!" After a minute, every cop in town rolled up to that area.

In conclusion- wtf. You can't protect yourself against intruders and I'm expected to put myself in danger so the cops know for a fact that there is a gun.

D'oh.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
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: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
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brian_eggleston
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12/14/2011 4:22:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You did the right thing, Lasagna.

The bloke was drunk, went to the wrong house and made a nuisance of himself, so you called the filth and they came and sorted it out. No real harm done.

If he had broken in, however, I'm sure you would have been legally entitled to use reasonable force to overpower him and restrain him until the rozzers arrived.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
Lasagna
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12/14/2011 10:13:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes the two main points seem to be:

1) his questionable intent prevented him from arrest and
2) the fact that he never actually entered my house prevented me from legally attacking him.

It also happened to be an extremely rare circumstance in which both my fiancee and daughter were away on vacation, so I didn't feel an overwhelming protective urge.

I keep asking myself:
- what if the door hadn't been locked?
- what if he strolled right in and my family was home?

I'd be writing you guys a much different story right now if those were the details of the incident.
Rob
brian_eggleston
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12/14/2011 12:22:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 10:13:02 AM, Lasagna wrote:
Yes the two main points seem to be:

1) his questionable intent prevented him from arrest and
2) the fact that he never actually entered my house prevented me from legally attacking him.

It also happened to be an extremely rare circumstance in which both my fiancee and daughter were away on vacation, so I didn't feel an overwhelming protective urge.

I keep asking myself:
- what if the door hadn't been locked?
- what if he strolled right in and my family was home?

I'd be writing you guys a much different story right now if those were the details of the incident.

They say a man's house is his castle and I wouldn't hesitate to use any means at my disposal to protect myself and my family from an intruder.

The mute point is that, although he may have been on your property he hadn't actually entered your house and that's, I imagine, the distinction the cops and the 911 lady were making - though Ragnar Rahl will no doubt disagree with me on this point - it's one thing to attack an intruder but quite another to attack a trespasser.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
brian_eggleston
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12/14/2011 12:27:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 12:25:12 PM, badger wrote:
poor fella probably just wanted a drink...

He was speaking Spanish and he wanted a drink - it must have been el-badgero. I wonder what happened to him...
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
badger
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12/14/2011 12:54:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 12:27:59 PM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 12/14/2011 12:25:12 PM, badger wrote:
poor fella probably just wanted a drink...

He was speaking Spanish and he wanted a drink - it must have been el-badgero. I wonder what happened to him...

well we have him as fairly possibly having being carted of by the cops from rob it seems... if we might follow that possibility up we might find him? i've no idea who you're talking about myself, tbh, but you've my curiousity peaked with all your talking about him...
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brian_eggleston
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12/14/2011 12:58:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 12:54:32 PM, badger wrote:
At 12/14/2011 12:27:59 PM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 12/14/2011 12:25:12 PM, badger wrote:
poor fella probably just wanted a drink...

He was speaking Spanish and he wanted a drink - it must have been el-badgero. I wonder what happened to him...

well we have him as fairly possibly having being carted of by the cops from rob it seems... if we might follow that possibility up we might find him? i've no idea who you're talking about myself, tbh, but you've my curiousity peaked with all your talking about him...

He knows you, though. Apparently you flogged him some dodgy VW Passatt and the sump fell off not long after he bought it from you.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/14/2011 1:08:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 12:58:39 PM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 12/14/2011 12:54:32 PM, badger wrote:
At 12/14/2011 12:27:59 PM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 12/14/2011 12:25:12 PM, badger wrote:
poor fella probably just wanted a drink...

He was speaking Spanish and he wanted a drink - it must have been el-badgero. I wonder what happened to him...

well we have him as fairly possibly having being carted of by the cops from rob it seems... if we might follow that possibility up we might find him? i've no idea who you're talking about myself, tbh, but you've my curiousity peaked with all your talking about him...

He knows you, though. Apparently you flogged him some dodgy VW Passatt and the sump fell off not long after he bought it from you.

oh that eejit! well, i'll ammm probably not be joining you on a search for him then... curiousity satisfied, thank you very much...
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/14/2011 1:20:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In Texas it is legal to shoot someone for stepping on your property at night (at least that's what my friend from Texas told me -- I'm not sure if it's true). I think that's ridiculous.

To Lasagna - That sitch would have terrified me. I was in a similar situation, except with my former roommate's ex-boyfriend (he got blacked out drunk and came over to our house in the middle of the night causing a ruckus). I think you did the right thing, but that's just me. You now have the benefit of hindsight whereas in the moment you dunno what could have been going on. I watch too much SVU to give people the benefit of the doubt. Then again, as a female I probably have more concerns than you do regarding intruders.

He's climbin in yo windows... he's snatchin yo people up...
President of DDO
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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12/14/2011 1:25:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 1:20:47 PM, Danielle wrote:
In Texas it is legal to shoot someone for stepping on your property at night (at least that's what my friend from Texas told me -- I'm not sure if it's true). I think that's ridiculous.

To Lasagna - That sitch would have terrified me. I was in a similar situation, except with my former roommate's ex-boyfriend (he got blacked out drunk and came over to our house in the middle of the night causing a ruckus). I think you did the right thing, but that's just me. You now have the benefit of hindsight whereas in the moment you dunno what could have been going on. I watch too much SVU to give people the benefit of the doubt. Then again, as a female I probably have more concerns than you do regarding intruders.

He's climbin in yo windows... he's snatchin yo people up...

I feel like I should feel bad that this made me crack up.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/14/2011 5:11:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 1:20:47 PM, Danielle wrote:
In Texas it is legal to shoot someone for stepping on your property at night (at least that's what my friend from Texas told me -- I'm not sure if it's true). I think that's ridiculous.:

Texas has one of the strongest stances on the Castle Doctrine, but you certainly can't shoot the pizza man for delivering to the wrong house. I have heard of a story in Texas where someone rang the doorbell of the wrong house, and the owner opened the door and shot him to death. His attorneys tried to invoke the Castle Doctrine, but it was flat out murder.

As to Rob's story, even in a state like Wisconsin, he would have been well within his rights to proportionately defend himself with force. I'd like to think the dispatcher was admonishing him not unduly present harm to himself rather than harming the poor, poor intruder.

As to his state of inebriation, it's irrelevant, as if homeowners are expected to invite their assailants inside for a cup of tea to understand their motives. F*ck that... You try and bash down my door, I'll bash open your face... bottom line.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Lasagna
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12/15/2011 9:22:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 1:20:47 PM, Danielle wrote:
In Texas it is legal to shoot someone for stepping on your property at night (at least that's what my friend from Texas told me -- I'm not sure if it's true). I think that's ridiculous.

To Lasagna - That sitch would have terrified me. I was in a similar situation, except with my former roommate's ex-boyfriend (he got blacked out drunk and came over to our house in the middle of the night causing a ruckus). I think you did the right thing, but that's just me. You now have the benefit of hindsight whereas in the moment you dunno what could have been going on. I watch too much SVU to give people the benefit of the doubt. Then again, as a female I probably have more concerns than you do regarding intruders.

He's climbin in yo windows... he's snatchin yo people up...

I was originally going to include a reference to Antoine Dodson in my post but I forgot when I actually got around to writing it...
Rob
inferno
Posts: 10,689
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12/15/2011 9:25:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/13/2011 10:12:34 PM, Lasagna wrote:
So a few nights ago I fell asleep and woke up at about 3:30am to the sound of banging in the back of my house. I figured it was my roommate but my dog kept barking and I kept hearing more banging. I finally got up after 30 seconds or so and I could hear my roommate yelling for me to call the cops because this guy was at our door and he was trying to kick it in. At first I couldn't believe it and I thought I was paranoid or something, but I could tell by the look on his face that it was for real. He was barricading the door as this guy kept trying to kick it open (it was locked).

I did as he said and called the cops, although I wasn't happy about doing it. I was sort of in shock though and I realized as I looked round my house that I had nothing to speak of in terms of a good weapon to defend myself. I grabbed a frying pan as I dialed 911 and stood there behind my roommate as the guy kept banging on the door.

By this time I could make out that he was black out drunk, and he was yelling in spanish and didn't know any english. There's a little window in my door and he was pressing his face against it and pointing at us and yelling. We stood there like that for a few minutes until the cops came and started asking him questions. It was late so we just stayed inside and let them take care of it.

The cop came in for a second, for no other reason than to warn me that I shouldn't have said I was going to attack the man if he didn't leave while talking to dispatch. I mentioned while I was in a frenzy that I might have to beat this guy's head in if he got through the door.

Since he said he thought he was at his friend's house, they couldn't arrest him and let him go. Officers apparently need several criteria to make an arrest, and intent is one of them. Since he didn't actually make it inside, they didn't treat it seriously. He proceeded to walk straight to another house and do the same thing, where he was finally arrested for prowling and disorderly conduct.

The officer told me that if I had hurt him, I would be in serious trouble. The 911 lady shouted at me to refrain from attacking him. I felt like I should have handled the situation with the frying pan and not the police. I feel like I was handled; that the natural reaction for me to protect my home against someone terrorizing me shouldn't have been suppressed. I feel like the next person dealt with the trouble unnecessarily, and that I could have put an end to his night more effectively than the police.

At the same time that I believe I should have taken matters into my own hands, I also realize that I could be looking at prison-time (not to mention the complete destruction of my future abiltiy to find work) if I hadn't called the cops. If I went out there and told him to get lost and he played my card, I would have swung at him and he would have pressed charges against me. I used to listen to this conservative talkshow host about ten years ago who got me into politics, G Gordon Liddy, and he advised one time that if you attack an intruder, make sure you kill them. When the cops come, the dead intruder will not be able to claim he had no intent to hurt you.

Now I have to pay the system to process this guy and tarnish his record. For what? To make it even more impossible for him to work? An azz-kicking would have taught him his lesson without sacrificing his ability to make something out of his life.

A frying pan ? Pssss. He's lucky he didnt bang on my door.
sadolite
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12/15/2011 8:17:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Move to Florida, you can shoot people dead just for walking through your door and feel your life is the least bit threatened. A great law, thugs and drunks are shot dead quite often in Florida. All you have to say is that you felt your life was threatened and in your case that would be easily provable if he were to gain entry into the house.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

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If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
thett3
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12/15/2011 8:23:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would have killed the bastard. Of course in my state things like that are not only legal, but practically encouraged.
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Oryus
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12/15/2011 8:25:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/14/2011 5:11:04 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 12/14/2011 1:20:47 PM, Danielle wrote:
In Texas it is legal to shoot someone for stepping on your property at night (at least that's what my friend from Texas told me -- I'm not sure if it's true). I think that's ridiculous.:

Texas has one of the strongest stances on the Castle Doctrine, but you certainly can't shoot the pizza man for delivering to the wrong house. I have heard of a story in Texas where someone rang the doorbell of the wrong house, and the owner opened the door and shot him to death. His attorneys tried to invoke the Castle Doctrine, but it was flat out murder.

As to Rob's story, even in a state like Wisconsin, he would have been well within his rights to proportionately defend himself with force. I'd like to think the dispatcher was admonishing him not unduly present harm to himself rather than harming the poor, poor intruder.

As to his state of inebriation, it's irrelevant, as if homeowners are expected to invite their assailants inside for a cup of tea to understand their motives. F*ck that... You try and bash down my door, I'll bash open your face... bottom line.

I concur, good sir. Cheers.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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12/28/2011 11:54:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Thus, "A liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet." ... although it's meant in the sense of "mugged by reality."

My understanding of the law is that virtually everywhere the standard for self-defense is a "reasonable belief that you are threatened." For deadly force, it must be a reasonable belief that you or someone else is threatened with serious injury or death. The reasonable belief is what a reasonable person would do in the circumstances, not what a panel of reasoned people would do after carefully sifting the evidence. Perhaps there is a lawyer around who could better explain.

In some states, someone actually entering your home without permission is written in law to be reason enough to blast away.

The correct thing to say when threatened is "he's coming for me" or "I'm afraid he'll kill me" or anything that expresses a feeling of endangerment. The right thing to do is to call the police, of course. They will take him to a liberal judge who will kiss him on both cheeks and apologize for the inconvenience.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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12/28/2011 12:00:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Here's how I see it:

If a person decides to break into my house, I don't care if he is there to rape, steal, kill, or just use the bathroom. Why? Cause I have no way of knowing without asking him. So if someone breaks into my house, they forfeit all right to life, then and there. That's that.
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MarquisX
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12/28/2011 6:13:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You really should think about getting a gun. And I'm not some" oh man I'm a bad *ss cuz i gots a gun" type guy and I'm not saying you should just shoot anything that trespasses but someone trying to kick your door down? You have to protect your family man. I'm like Danielle man, i watch waaaay too much Law and Order.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
RoyLatham
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12/29/2011 1:16:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think guns require training. If there is a danger that requires a gun for protection, then the first thing to do is to take a course.

I have a friend who is an expert weapons instructor. He recommends a semi-automatic shotgun for home protection.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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12/29/2011 3:03:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
They couldn't arrest him for being pissed out of his mind? Not ARREST him, but at least hold him for a while until he sobers up, I would think.
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OberHerr
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12/30/2011 10:31:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 1:16:23 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I think guns require training. If there is a danger that requires a gun for protection, then the first thing to do is to take a course.

I have a friend who is an expert weapons instructor. He recommends a semi-automatic shotgun for home protection.

I recommend a shotgun for any protection?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/30/2011 11:45:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2011 10:31:07 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/29/2011 1:16:23 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I think guns require training. If there is a danger that requires a gun for protection, then the first thing to do is to take a course.

I have a friend who is an expert weapons instructor. He recommends a semi-automatic shotgun for home protection.

I recommend a shotgun for any protection?

I don't recommend a shotgun for sexual protection.

(Also it's kind of annoying to carry one around.)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
failedALIAS
Posts: 20
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5/7/2012 3:10:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I came to only one conclusion (not that your story wasn't any good) after reading this.

You should become the Fryer! Burns up crime with hot, oily justice. With your trusty frying-pan, you wouldn't be the hero this city deserves (which is something with much less carbs) but you would be the hero this city Needs.
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No Hell below us
Above us only Sky
Imagine All the people living for Today - John Lennon