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Humanity

MarquisX
Posts: 925
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12/17/2011 5:31:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I admit i was wrong. Humanity is not good. Sure they're are good people and bad people who do good things to look like good people, but the human race itself is a vile, nasty, corrupt one, and if there is a God, he no doubt abandoned us a long time ago. I hereby renounce my faith in humanity. You all can go f*ck yourselves. Happy Holidays!
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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12/17/2011 6:03:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 5:31:17 AM, MarquisX wrote:
I admit i was wrong. Humanity is not good. Sure they're are good people and bad people who do good things to look like good people, but the human race itself is a vile, nasty, corrupt one, and if there is a God, he no doubt abandoned us a long time ago. I hereby renounce my faith in humanity. You all can go f*ck yourselves. Happy Holidays!

I think you may be confusing "the human race" with Tea Party supporters.

By the way, which "holidays" are you referring to exactly? Thanksgiving was weeks ago and isn't Christmas until 25th December - it's only the 17th December today.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/17/2011 1:34:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There is no such thing as good and bad people - only good and bad actions.

Even though I don't believe in God, I'm sorry for whatever you're dealing with or have seen that made you lose faith. I hope all is well and wish you the best of luck. I'm sure everything will be okay [e-hug].
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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/17/2011 4:02:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I disagree with both Danielle and Darkkermit. I believe that's just a lack of accountability.

Humanity is pretty loathsome from a panoramic perspective.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/17/2011 4:09:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Faith in humanity to do what?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/17/2011 4:10:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 4:09:00 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Faith in humanity to do what?

Faith that humanity is inherently good rather than bad -- faith, given there's no possibility for empirical proof.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/17/2011 4:12:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Good for what? Bad for what?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/17/2011 4:20:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Good is defined as:

good   [good] Show IPA adjective, bet·ter, best, noun, interjection, adverb
adjective
1.
morally excellent; virtuous; righteous; pious: a good man.
2.
satisfactory in quality, quantity, or degree: a good teacher; good health.
3.
of high quality; excellent.
4.
right; proper; fit: It is good that you are here. His credentials are good.
5.
well-behaved: a good child.

The words I bolded are perfectly descriptive of the many facets of "good."

In terms of the first definition, good people are moral people. Moral is defined as doing what is correct given the circumstance. The most logical decision. The decision that affords the greatest degree of synchronization with whatever construct in which you're participating.

You know that inasmuch as you acknowledge why Izbo10 went through the controversy he did. Within the construct of online society and discussion forums in particular, "trolling" is a concept based on a presumed moral foundation specific to that construct.

Good people, therefore, are any of those definitions, with a similar application of the concept.

Bad is defined as:

bad1    [bad] Show IPA adjective, worse, worst; ( Slang ) bad·der, bad·dest for 36; noun; adverb
adjective
1.
not good in any manner or degree.
2.
having a wicked or evil character; morally reprehensible: There is no such thing as a bad boy.
3.
of poor or inferior quality; defective; deficient: a bad diamond; a bad spark plug.
4.
inadequate or below standard; not satisfactory for use: bad heating; Living conditions in some areas are very bad.
5.
inaccurate, incorrect, or faulty: a bad guess.

The opposite of good, and therefore, inversely inferred.

People are not innately good. They will not choose the most moral, logical, or even sane decision very often, even collectively. Humanity is mean, corrupt, for all intents and purposes, evil.

Truly see humanity for what it is, and realize that every single monster we have ever conceived, from aliens to the devil, is simply a reflection of ourselves. We are every monster ever conceived.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/17/2011 4:25:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
How absurd.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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12/18/2011 9:35:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I lost faith in humanity many years ago. But I realized all I can do is make the best out of what I was given. And there are people I encounter in life who give me... I wouldn't say "hope" but something less vibrant than hope lol
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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12/18/2011 4:33:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well I am officially left without words.
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MarquisX
Posts: 925
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12/18/2011 4:36:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://efukt.com...[HORRIBLE].html

This is why I lost my faith in humanity being good. Be warned the video and the website itself is definitely NSFW.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/18/2011 5:42:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 4:36:03 PM, MarquisX wrote:
http://efukt.com...[HORRIBLE].html

This is why I lost my faith in humanity being good. Be warned the video and the website itself is definitely NSFW.

Much less profound a reason than I expected.
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
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12/18/2011 6:11:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 5:31:17 AM, MarquisX wrote:
I admit i was wrong. Humanity is not good. Sure they're are good people and bad people who do good things to look like good people, but the human race itself is a vile, nasty, corrupt one, and if there is a God, he no doubt abandoned us a long time ago. I hereby renounce my faith in humanity. You all can go f*ck yourselves. Happy Holidays!

And this is exactly why Jesus Christ came to earth.
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
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That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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12/18/2011 6:23:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 5:42:49 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/18/2011 4:36:03 PM, MarquisX wrote:
http://efukt.com...[HORRIBLE].html

This is why I lost my faith in humanity being good. Be warned the video and the website itself is definitely NSFW.

Much less profound a reason than I expected.

I guess I'm just soft when it comes to gang rape.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/18/2011 9:19:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/18/2011 4:31:54 PM, Ren wrote:
It appears to me that we're approaching the fundamental premise behind a belief in God.

At 12/18/2011 6:11:59 PM, Calvincambridge wrote:

And this is exactly why Jesus Christ came to earth.

Hehe.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/19/2011 10:07:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 4:02:30 PM, Ren wrote:
I disagree with both Danielle and Darkkermit. I believe that's just a lack of accountability.

How is saying there are only good/bad actions and not good/bad people demonstrating a lack of accountability? What is a good/bad person then?
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/19/2011 10:22:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 10:07:57 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 12/17/2011 4:02:30 PM, Ren wrote:
I disagree with both Danielle and Darkkermit. I believe that's just a lack of accountability.

How is saying there are only good/bad actions and not good/bad people demonstrating a lack of accountability? What is a good/bad person then?

I already asked, the answers are nonsensical.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/19/2011 9:06:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 10:07:57 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 12/17/2011 4:02:30 PM, Ren wrote:
I disagree with both Danielle and Darkkermit. I believe that's just a lack of accountability.

How is saying there are only good/bad actions and not good/bad people demonstrating a lack of accountability? What is a good/bad person then?

Accountability is literally taking responsibility for your actions. Therefore, you saying that there is a such thing as bad actions, but not bad people, is a lack of accountability, by definition.

A good/bad person is someone who is rationally inclined to good/bad behavior.

This is separate of why I believe Darkkermit's response was evident of a lack of accountability. He believes actions are driven by genetics or incentive, completely removing rationality from behavior, which I believe is the largest contributor. An acknowledgement of rationality behind decisions to do good/bad things is just another way to interpret accountability -- taking responsibility for the things you rationally chose to do.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/19/2011 9:07:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 10:22:45 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 12/19/2011 10:07:57 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 12/17/2011 4:02:30 PM, Ren wrote:
I disagree with both Danielle and Darkkermit. I believe that's just a lack of accountability.

How is saying there are only good/bad actions and not good/bad people demonstrating a lack of accountability? What is a good/bad person then?

I already asked, the answers are nonsensical.

You asked no such thing. You asked what good and bad where, for all intents and purposes, which is a nonsensical question. So, if you consider the answer nonsensical, that's likely why.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/20/2011 11:49:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 9:06:30 PM, Ren wrote:
Accountability is literally taking responsibility for your actions. Therefore, you saying that there is a such thing as bad actions, but not bad people, is a lack of accountability, by definition.

No it's not. Accountability refers to being held accountable (responsible or liable) for particular actions. You can easily be held accountable for something and not have it determine whether or not you are considered a good or bad person.

You saying that good and bad actions determine good and bad people is basically a bare assertion. You're just stating it as fact to be automatically accepted. The accountability answer is not accurate, as I've shown. If a good person can do bad things, then you're acknowledging it's one's actions and not the label of whether or not they are a "good person" or "bad person" that's important, but rather the actions themselves.

A good/bad person is someone who is rationally inclined to good/bad behavior.

Says you. But this isn't really justified. This opens up a whole bunch of questions such as what does the ratio have to be in terms of good actions to bad actions to constitute whether or not a person is good or bad? Also, does the severity of the actions (either good or bad) play a part? This makes the problem even more complex. Further, if you're saying that good and bad actions determine good and bad people, then you're admitting good and bad actions are absolute while good and bad people are not (as they can fluctuate, since the actions determine the classification).

This is separate of why I believe Darkkermit's response was evident of a lack of accountability. He believes actions are driven by genetics or incentive, completely removing rationality from behavior, which I believe is the largest contributor. An acknowledgement of rationality behind decisions to do good/bad things is just another way to interpret accountability -- taking responsibility for the things you rationally chose to do.

This is an opening tangent on free will. I am a hard determinist, so I tend to agree that actions are dictated by precedent states of affairs (genetics and environment). The rationality you speak of also derives from those two things, but that's neither here nor there to what we are talking about. I'll debate you on free will though if you want :)
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/20/2011 11:55:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It very clearly isn't nonsensical. If you are talking about good and bad people, or people doing good and bad things, what you mean by "good and bad" needs to be made clear.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/20/2011 1:44:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 11:49:10 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 12/19/2011 9:06:30 PM, Ren wrote:
Accountability is literally taking responsibility for your actions. Therefore, you saying that there is a such thing as bad actions, but not bad people, is a lack of accountability, by definition.

No it's not. Accountability refers to being held accountable (responsible or liable) for particular actions. You can easily be held accountable for something and not have it determine whether or not you are considered a good or bad person.

Okay, wait. Are you drawing a distinction between your and my definition of accountability by the merit of who's placing blame? In my assertion, accountability rests on the person committing an act. In yours, it's an unknown third party.

ac·count·a·ble   [uh-koun-tuh-buhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable.

In the first part of the definition, it appears that it's enforced by a third party; however, the semicolon that separates the second and third parts suggest that it's simply an intrinsic statement. Not that someone will enforce this obligation, but simply that this obligation exists.

In that regard, I would say accountability rests on the person who made the action, as they are the only person who could accurately explain why they did it.

You saying that good and bad actions determine good and bad people is basically a bare assertion. You're just stating it as fact to be automatically accepted.

Waitwait. I never said any such thing. Everyone has different tolerances to everything. Let me explain.

Alcohol is bad for your health.

That is not a bare assertion. It is a statement of fact.

However, why is it bad for your health?

Well, primarily, because it thins your stomach lining, increasing the potential for ulcers, acid reflux, and gastrointestinal cancers; it thins your blood and acts as a diuretic, effectively starving you of water; and it overworks your liver, causing low density lipoproteins to collect in your thinned blood, clotting and destroying veins and arteries, while simultaneously scarring the liver, progressively leading to sclerosis and dysfunction.

HOWEVER!

Let's say there's a guy that, through some genetic miracle, genetically evolved a stomach lined with a thick layer of mucous impenetrable by alcohol that he can magically metabolize by converting it from an alcohol back to a suger and using it in place of glucose, rather than forcing the liver to metabolize it with bile, then this man could conceivably drink much more alcohol than most, although it would likely lead to diabetes.

Could we say that alcohol is now less bad for your health, or arguably not bad for your health at all, because there is a man with much greater tolerance, and the conceivable potential for someone that can drink it with no physical detriment?

No.

Alcohol is still bad for your health, genetic anomalies notwithstanding.

So, to you, child molestation might not be a big deal. It may be like, whatevs. You're pragmatically historically-minded, and historically, child molestation was regarded as a very high and sincere form of "true love."

So, your child molester friend might not be a bad guy to you, because you have that kind of tolerance.

But, as far as I'm concerned, he's a bad person.

The accountability answer is not accurate, as I've shown. If a good person can do bad things, then you're acknowledging it's one's actions and not the label of whether or not they are a "good person" or "bad person" that's important, but rather the actions themselves.

No. There's also what one is liable to do. I mean, it seems like I might be leaning toward that predetermination jazz, but I'm not.

Says you. But this isn't really justified. This opens up a whole bunch of questions such as what does the ratio have to be in terms of good actions to bad actions to constitute whether or not a person is good or bad?

Why does everything have to be some hard measurement? That's not possible in terms of human interaction. You must instead cognitively, rationally, and logically analyze things and come to determinations. That leaves no room for dogmatic and arbitrary "definitions" attributed to things.

Also, does the severity of the actions (either good or bad) play a part?

Of course. Lol, why would that be so nebulous? It's pretty easy to perceive.

This makes the problem even more complex.

Not really. It's simple enough for young children to understand. :\ Right and wrong is among the most fundamental of our rational conceptions. A very large degree of sentience, I'd say. Without cooperation, we'd be much lower on the food chain, no doubt about it, and thoroughly supported by science.

Further, if you're saying that good and bad actions determine good and bad people, then you're admitting good and bad actions are absolute

? Nothing is absolute. I said no such thing.

while good and bad people are not (as they can fluctuate, since the actions determine the classification).

Well, no, since every single action is not considered individually and irrespective of every other action. I'm sure someone's perception can evolve, but it doesn't just bounce back and forth. Think, transfer of energy as opposed to wavelength. Not positive and negative polarity, but rather, aggregate electromagnetism.

So, accordingly, rather than changing your mind every time you encounter a proton or electron, you consider all of the protons and all of the electrons and make a rational determination of electromagnetic charge. ^_^

This is an opening tangent on free will. I am a hard determinist, so I tend to agree that actions are dictated by precedent states of affairs (genetics and environment). The rationality you speak of also derives from those two things, but that's neither here nor there to what we are talking about. I'll debate you on free will though if you want :)

Eyyyy, I'd love to.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/20/2011 1:46:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 11:55:28 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
It very clearly isn't nonsensical. If you are talking about good and bad people, or people doing good and bad things, what you mean by "good and bad" needs to be made clear.

Well, I always use the dictionary when determining the definition of words, so moving forward, you can just assume Merriam-Webster or the New World English as the point of reference when talking to me. :)
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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12/20/2011 3:22:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/17/2011 1:34:37 PM, Danielle wrote:
There is no such thing as good and bad people - only good and bad actions.

Even though I don't believe in God, I'm sorry for whatever you're dealing with or have seen that made you lose faith. I hope all is well and wish you the best of luck. I'm sure everything will be okay [e-hug].

false, crazy rapist killing psychopaths are actually bad people
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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12/20/2011 3:26:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/20/2011 3:22:52 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/17/2011 1:34:37 PM, Danielle wrote:
There is no such thing as good and bad people - only good and bad actions.

Even though I don't believe in God, I'm sorry for whatever you're dealing with or have seen that made you lose faith. I hope all is well and wish you the best of luck. I'm sure everything will be okay [e-hug].

false, crazy rapist killing psychopaths are actually bad people

Based on your own subjective preference.
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