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Judge Judy, Moral Decline, and Capitalism

charleslb
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12/23/2011 1:20:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why is a television show, such as Judge Judy, which is little more than an electronic media milieu of meanness, a daily high-tech pillorying of people's flawed, feet-of-clay personalities and characters by a harsh-chiding biddy in judicial robes so many people's idea of entertainment?

My answer is that it's a symptom, yet another symptom of the current depthless materialistic & egoistic ethos/zeitgeist of our society, which is conducive to a preference for low, shallow, sensationalistic fare, such as a program featuring a severely judgmental retired judge berating those before her bench. That is, thanks to our materialistic attitudes/anti-values our tastes in TV programming altogether lack a dimension of ethical concern and humane sensitivity to the feelings of the unfortunate folks who appear on daytime reality shows. As viewers many of us no longer have any sensibilities to get in the way of our enjoyment of such cruel entertainment. Indeed, the vulgar sensationalism very much appeals to the vulgar materialist in so many of us nowadays.

Moreover, the egoistic delight in seeing others verbally scourged for their stupidity or moral shortcomings adds to the pleasure we derive from shows such as Judge Judy. There's no doubt that such shows are very much a guilty ego-boosting pleasure for their typical avid viewer. They overtly pander to one's crass love of sensationalism and of feeling superior to the schmucks who offer themselves as fodder for the likes of Judith Sheindlin and Jerry Springer. They truly are a symptom of something disturbing in our modern ethos.

What precisely is so terrible and toxic about the Right Honourable Judge Judy and her over-the-airwaves mock court? Quite simply that she's too blatantly, immoderately, and improperly judgmental. Say what?! Isn't a judge by definition supposed to be, well, judgmental? Actually, no. A judge is supposed to be not judgmental but rather judicial and judicious – which means rational, not reproachful; dispassionate, not dyspeptic; objective, not overly keen on putting people in their place. It's not the primary function of a real judge in an honest-to-goodness courtroom to tell litigants off. A court of law is not supposed to be a venue for a judge to express her cantankerous personality for the entertainment of spectators. A judge is supposed to be a professional trier of fact, not a practiced scold.

Judge Judy, alas, is the egregious reverse of everything that a judge ideally should be. She's rampantly reproachful, inveterately irascible, and proudly peremptory. She seems to deem her function to be rubbing people's faces in their own dumbness, and she certainly behaves as though it's her prerogative to be temperamental. She really is quite often more of a shrewish scold than a serious judge. Whether or not this biases her rulings and disserves justice is another matter which I won't go into. What there is no question about is that she's an authority figure who insidiously validates being unprofessional, unkind, and unpitying.

This of course makes her right for our increasingly harsh-spirited, right-wingish, and cynical culture. But she and her fellow media kings and queens of mean (the Dr. Lauras, Bill O'Reillys, Rush Limbaughs, etc.) do more than market themselves in a nasty cultural niche, more than merely pander to the public's already existing appetite for the vicarious pleasure of watching someone verbally lay into the people they love to hate (dumb litigants, unwed mothers, gays, etc.). No, they help create the ugly niche that they fit, and the appetite for meanness that they lucratively tap into.

The likes of Judge Judy certainly promote what they sell, which are the grapes of misdirected middle-class wrath against the so-called "losers" of our society. How so? Well, her show, like so many others, really is something of a high-tech pillory, i.e. it features individuals who in one way, shape, or form or another fit the popular bill of a bum, a schlemiel, a "loser", who are unabashedly subjected to a bit of righteous rebuke, to a deserved dose of public scorn and humiliation, to stern judgment. In olden times the good folk would pay a visit to the town square and literally look down their noses upon the wretches in the stocks in order to enjoy a sense of being holier than their sinful neighbors. Today we just have to switch on our television and tune into a talk or court show.

Such shows indeed and quite clearly serve precisely the same purpose as the medieval pillory. What they do for their audience is give them a tidbit of satisfaction, a fleeting feeling of schadenfreude, and of superiority to the scapegrace or jerk du jour. Viewing too much of this kind of pandering and desensitizing television does not exactly make for a characterful and compassionate human being. Rather, it feeds into an appreciable decline in character and compassion in our contemporary society. A moral decline that is one of the signs and portents of the prevalence of the materialism-egoism corroding the cultural, axiological, and spiritual foundation of a truly human form of life.

Irony of ironies, in the name of righteousness (a name which they take in vain) the Judge Judys kill kindness and thereby murder a bit of our humanity. They are a part of the pathology, not the remedy of what ails our civilization. But is our society really in such a moribund state of moral malaise & decline?

Well, that's an involved question. In brief, the answer is that the moral condition of our society is a paradox. By certain social and ethical criteria and measures it's advanced quite a bit in the last couple of centuries. For instance, legalized chattel slavery is a thing of the past, and many countries have abolished capital punishment. These are two great evils that we've grown beyond. On the other hand, however, our culture is proliferating economic and existential poverty all over the sociological-demographical map; and, symptomatic of this, mass producing dysfunctionality-ridden and drug-addicted citizens. Our society's overall wellbeing certainly leaves much to be desired, and much of what passes for merely vapid entertainment on TV is in fact contributing to our societal ill-being.

Which brings us to one of the fundamental and ultimately fatal foibles of the capitalist market, that it doesn't at all encourage our entertainment industry to concern itself with elevating our taste as consumers of its entertainment products. Rather, show biz, with the same capitalistic priorities of any "biz", operates in the amoral matrix of economic activity called the "free market" by outputting subliterary and sensationalistic junk food for our minds and by debasing our culture to the lowest common denominator of insensitive Philistines who enjoy the spectacle of the Ricky Lake Show, or of MMA fighters beating each other up, or of Judge Judy verbally beating up the victims of her vituperation.

More than this, mean-spirited television of course also works against the material interests of working-class folks, and their ability to make progress toward a better economic form of life for themselves, and serves to protect the capitalist status quo. How's that? Well, it's the old story of divide and conquer. Mean-spirited television programs focus our free-floating discontent and anger and cynicism upon other ordinary, relatable, blue-collar individuals, and away from the underlying socioeconomic system that's really the causal culprit behind our society's deeply endemic discontent, anger, and cynicism.

The conclusion is located directly below
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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12/23/2011 1:23:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Conclusion

The way it works is really quite simple, the system and its ruling elite are ipso facto prevented from becoming the objects of critical analysis and resentment when we click on and get engrossed in a show that presents our neighbors airing their dirty linen for us to self-righteously cry shame upon. And such shows do have the very real and very insidious effect of pitting average Joes and Janes against each other, diminishing their sense of class solidarity, and diverting their attention away from the capitalist power structure and power players causing their pain. In this and numerous other ways is the revolutionary potential of the public neutralized and the unjust capitalist social order preserved, to most people's detriment.

To sum up, shows such as Judge Judy adversely impact the ethical development of our personalities, the quality of our humanity, and our ability to stand in unity with each other to create a kinder & gentler society. And, seriously speaking, we ought to ask ourselves if we were genuinely a society whose heroes were intelligent individuals such as Thomas Jefferson, or kind individuals such as Mother Teresa and Jesus, would we really care for such dumbing-down, divisive, and downright cruel "entertainment"? I strongly think not. The colorful attorney Gerry Spence has written a book whose attention-grabbing, alliterative title refers to the media's "bloodthirsty b*tches", without question Judge Judy qualifies, but rather than emulating her by judgmentally focusing our thoughts upon her we should be critically reflecting on what her popularity says about us. Nothing good, I'm afraid.

As a Springeresque final thought I'd just like to point out to the religiously oriented among us that all of the churches and traditions, the Moseses and Muhammads, the revelations, dharmas, and divinings of humanity exhort us to be better than we are, while shows such as Judge Judy have the truly dangerous and diabolical effect of making us complacent, upon our couches and easy chairs, in our mean-spiritedness and moral mediocrity. They are spiritually contraindicated. Stick that in your pious and Pecksniffian pipes and smoke it, members of the religious right.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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12/23/2011 2:34:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Btw, a sincere merry Christmas to everyone at DDO. I'll wager that you-all thought that I'd compose an anti-Christmas rant, but rather than be so predictable I thought I'd share some social criticism of the Judge Judy Show. I hope that the site has at least one or two readers who find it thought provoking. Now I'm going to go off and drink some soy nog. Cheers.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/23/2011 7:28:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
k
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Buckethead31594
Posts: 363
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12/23/2011 9:19:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 7:28:59 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
k

Hah.
"By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." - Socrates
Chthonian
Posts: 247
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12/23/2011 11:34:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nice post, Charles.

Judge Judy's show is an obvious farce. The "audience" are uninterested extras and the "defendants" and "plaintiffs" are paid for their appearance; and no lawyers are present to protect the rights of the participants. This type of entertainment is a pathetic parody of our justice system.

Having said that, I think Judge Judy's show has no effect on the broader social ethos that defines our culture. There just happens to be segments of the population that find an entertainment value in watching an "outspoken" woman asserting her acerbic authority to those that "appear" to deserve such treatment. The show doesn't foment friction within the middle and lower class; it provides a distraction from their everyday lives that can be viewed from the comfort of ones home.

Last, while I agree that judges should be judicious, they certainly filtered all facts through a judgmental prism of personal preferences. This is why no lawyer can assure you how a case will turn out: it all depends on how the judge judges the facts.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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12/23/2011 11:37:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Penis envy coupled with a sandy vagina.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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12/23/2011 2:51:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Verbose. Her application of the law is excellent. I can count the times I have seen the show, but the people are just like the clowns in court rooms all over the US. Judges are educated and part of a branch of government. The law, in a republic, is the peoples. Nothing on that show is complicated law, in fact, had mo of the parties paid attention in school and not watched daytime TV they wouldn't be in Court. As a comment on society, me bovine scatology.
Maikuru
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12/23/2011 4:09:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 2:51:31 PM, mongeese wrote:
Shows I watch:
NCIS
NCIS: Los Angeles
How I Met Your Mother
The Big Bang Theory

Go ahead, psychoanalyze me.

Seinfeld is better. I think we discussed that once.

In any case, Judge Judy is great. I assume that's what this thread is about.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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12/23/2011 6:21:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 4:09:23 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 12/23/2011 2:51:31 PM, mongeese wrote:
Shows I watch:
NCIS
NCIS: Los Angeles
How I Met Your Mother
The Big Bang Theory

Go ahead, psychoanalyze me.

Seinfeld is better. I think we discussed that once.

More than discussed. Debated.

http://www.debate.org...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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12/23/2011 6:39:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Judge Judy is a TV show, not a real courtroom. People like it because they like to see justice handed out, whether by Sherlock Holmes, Dirty Harry (talk about judgmental), or by Judge Judy. I think that desire comes from a human instinct for a moral society.

The stuff about it having something to do with capitalism is silly. Residents of socialist states have every bit as much interest in issues of justice. The difference is that the State makes sure that the State is always depicted as on the side of justice.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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12/24/2011 8:56:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 6:21:03 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 12/23/2011 4:09:23 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 12/23/2011 2:51:31 PM, mongeese wrote:
Shows I watch:
NCIS
NCIS: Los Angeles
How I Met Your Mother
The Big Bang Theory

Go ahead, psychoanalyze me.

Seinfeld is better. I think we discussed that once.

More than discussed. Debated.

http://www.debate.org...

Nope. Sorry. Seinfeld is the supreme TV show. This cannot be denied. The only thing that comes close is Dexter.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/24/2011 2:07:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/24/2011 8:56:37 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 12/23/2011 6:21:03 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 12/23/2011 4:09:23 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 12/23/2011 2:51:31 PM, mongeese wrote:
Shows I watch:
NCIS
NCIS: Los Angeles
How I Met Your Mother
The Big Bang Theory

Go ahead, psychoanalyze me.

Seinfeld is better. I think we discussed that once.

More than discussed. Debated.

http://www.debate.org...

Nope. Sorry. Seinfeld is the supreme TV show. This cannot be denied. The only thing that comes close is Dexter.

Big Bang Theory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ANy other shows
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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12/24/2011 8:38:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Soy Nog is the result of evil Capitalism, and it's destroying our society and the environment.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO OUR MORALS?!~?!??!!?
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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12/24/2011 9:32:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 6:39:33 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Judge Judy is a TV show, not a real courtroom. People like it because they like to see justice handed out, whether by Sherlock Holmes, Dirty Harry (talk about judgmental), or by Judge Judy. I think that desire comes from a human instinct for a moral society.

The stuff about it having something to do with capitalism is silly. Residents of socialist states have every bit as much interest in issues of justice. The difference is that the State makes sure that the State is always depicted as on the side of justice.

I haven't read Charlie's full post (who can?) but in an ideal capitalist society, the people get what the people want. This, I think, is Charles' point: the people want schadenfreude + courtrooms, so they get schadenfreude + courtrooms, and start to be lax about the actual issues.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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12/26/2011 2:16:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/24/2011 9:32:31 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 12/23/2011 6:39:33 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Judge Judy is a TV show, not a real courtroom. People like it because they like to see justice handed out, whether by Sherlock Holmes, Dirty Harry (talk about judgmental), or by Judge Judy. I think that desire comes from a human instinct for a moral society.

The stuff about it having something to do with capitalism is silly. Residents of socialist states have every bit as much interest in issues of justice. The difference is that the State makes sure that the State is always depicted as on the side of justice.

I haven't read Charlie's full post (who can?) but in an ideal capitalist society, the people get what the people want. This, I think, is Charles' point: the people want schadenfreude + courtrooms, so they get schadenfreude + courtrooms, and start to be lax about the actual issues.

You have some sense of what the post has to say, but I would suggest that you actually read it before attempting to synopsize it.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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12/26/2011 2:22:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 11:34:37 AM, Chthonian wrote:
Nice post, Charles.

Judge Judy's show is an obvious farce. The "audience" are uninterested extras and the "defendants" and "plaintiffs" are paid for their appearance; and no lawyers are present to protect the rights of the participants. This type of entertainment is a pathetic parody of our justice system.

Having said that, I think Judge Judy's show has no effect on the broader social ethos that defines our culture. There just happens to be segments of the population that find an entertainment value in watching an "outspoken" woman asserting her acerbic authority to those that "appear" to deserve such treatment. The show doesn't foment friction within the middle and lower class; it provides a distraction from their everyday lives that can be viewed from the comfort of ones home.

Last, while I agree that judges should be judicious, they certainly filtered all facts through a judgmental prism of personal preferences. This is why no lawyer can assure you how a case will turn out: it all depends on how the judge judges the facts.

Although we have certain points of disagreement I nevertheless thank you for a thoughtful reply.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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12/26/2011 2:26:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 6:39:33 PM, RoyLatham wrote:

... The stuff about it having something to do with capitalism is silly...

I was away for a few days on account of a relative's minor health crisis and unable to respond to the feedback generated by this post in a timely fashion, but reviewing it I see that some of it (such as your reply, dear RoyLatham) is just the usual, quite predictable vapid "conservative" claptrap. Oh well, hope you-all had a very merry Christmas.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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12/26/2011 3:49:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/26/2011 2:26:51 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 12/23/2011 6:39:33 PM, RoyLatham wrote:

... The stuff about it having something to do with capitalism is silly...


I was away for a few days on account of a relative's minor health crisis and unable to respond to the feedback generated by this post in a timely fashion, but reviewing it I see that some of it (such as your reply, dear RoyLatham) is just the usual, quite predictable vapid "conservative" claptrap. Oh well, hope you-all had a very merry Christmas.

And of course, you still absolutely refuse to debate, right? Your premise is that your stuff is so brilliant, no one could possible disagree.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/27/2011 3:08:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/23/2011 6:39:33 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Judge Judy is a TV show, not a real courtroom. People like it because they like to see justice handed out, whether by Sherlock Holmes, Dirty Harry (talk about judgmental), or by Judge Judy. I think that desire comes from a human instinct for a moral society.

The stuff about it having something to do with capitalism is silly. Residents of socialist states have every bit as much interest in issues of justice. The difference is that the State makes sure that the State is always depicted as on the side of justice.

I agree with Roy here. Other than the fact that Judge Judy is the result of ratings, you haven't aptly made the connection between capitalism and the appeal of the show. Of all people i would think that you would have an understanding that in all people there is a need to see and feel justice being carried out, and seeing things that aren't fair made right. I should make the disclaimer that i haven't watched the show in a very long time, and didn't even realize it was still on the air, but i do get the gist of it.

There is a Spanish speaking equivalent called "The Judge", and it's far more popular than Judge Judy in Latin America; do you make the same contention that it's the result of capitalism?

You've made a very poor correlation between capitalism and morality, unless you are to bring capitalism over with the necessary freedoms that are required, and I would say that the greater the amount of freedom in a society will result in a loosening of traditional moral restrictions. Although, having spent time in Socialist countries there is no shortage of moral degradation there.

You really do need to debate some of this stuff, because you are making baseless assertions, and on a debate site that amounts to nothingness.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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12/29/2011 1:57:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Shows such as Judge Judy do what for us, precisely? Well, to nutshell the thesis of the OP, such shows appeal to and provide a cheap ego-gratificatory release for the cruel streak in the personalities of a great many of us. So, it's quite interesting indeed, and quite telling that the right-wingers (aka "libertarians" and "conservatives") on this site have reacted to my bit of social criticism directed at Judge Judy and her bellicose & bilious boob-tube ilk by playing apologist for them. Why, pray tell, are conservatives inclined to defend and enjoy cruel television shows? Could it perhaps simply be the case that conservatism is little more than a politicized expression of human nature's cruel streak, and that conservatives are merely people who ideologically rationalize harboring unkind, insensitive, and superior attitudes and opinions?

Furthermore, shows such as Judge Judy also distract us from the real factors in a capitalist society that cause our existential woe & disgruntlement and divisively displace our blame and bitterness onto our fellow average John and Jane Q. Public who make the unwise choice to seek their fifteen minutes on such sadistic shows. That it's the reflex of conservatives to take up for such as Judge Judy would therefore also seem to suggest that they are the kind of folks given to scapegoating their neighbor. And that they're not at all inclined to look beyond the scapegoats of the dummies who get verbally smacked down by judgmental TV judges, welfare recipients, homosexuals, etc. to engage in a deeper critique of the capitalist power structure that's really responsible for their aggrievement. In other words, the response of conservatives to my hostile editorial, as it were, on the Judge Judy Show once again demonstrates that conservatives are anti-underdog and pro-fat cat.

Yes, the knee-jerk response of conservatives in this thread has once again revealed the true and unpleasant nature of the "conservative" mentalité (and yo, any anti-intellectuals who feel the urge to respond with an anti-intellectual crack about this bit of fancy spelling, it's been done before).
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
mongeese
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12/29/2011 1:03:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm pretty sure that conservatives have been arguing so far that Judge Judy's flaws are not the result of capitalism, which makes your conclusion that it reflects problems with capitalism heavily flawed. You then conclude that because they opposed you, your initial assumptions are actually correct. This seems to be some form of circular reasoning, and doesn't follow logic in this universe or any other universe.
charleslb
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12/29/2011 2:00:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 1:03:40 PM, mongeese wrote:
I'm pretty sure that conservatives have been arguing so far that Judge Judy's flaws are not the result of capitalism, which makes your conclusion that it reflects problems with capitalism heavily flawed. You then conclude that because they opposed you, your initial assumptions are actually correct. This seems to be some form of circular reasoning, and doesn't follow logic in this universe or any other universe.

This seems to be a bit of reductionism and a straw-manization (to coin a neologism) of my arguments.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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12/29/2011 2:06:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm aware that some rationalize that the redeeming thing about cruel court shows is that they cater to our deep yearning for justice, rubbish! Such shows not only don't have the slightest thing to do with genuine justice, they're downright antithetical and antipathetic to it. Rather, justice is constructively redressing and rectifying wrongs that deface the moral and social and spiritual beauty that human beings and the universe aspire to; justice, that is, is transforming matters so as to enable individuals to realize their rightful and just potential for goodness, and so as to enable them to meet their responsibility to contribute that potential back to society and the world. No, justice is not and has nothing whatsoever to do with punishment, per se (except in so far as punishment is sometimes necessary to get a malefactor's attention). Colorful TV hanging judges and brutal prisons do not serve the ethical and cosmic objective of justice, not at all. Ultimately mercy, although it doesn't mollify the vengeful mob, is the only human quality that proves effectual in moving individuals to grow into the fullness of their latent humanity, and therefore only mercy is and serves true justice – yes, irrespective of the severity of the badness of any bad guy in question.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
RoyLatham
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12/29/2011 2:14:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 1:57:48 AM, charleslb wrote:
Shows such as Judge Judy do what for us, precisely?

It's entertainment. Your argument is that entertainment is only legitimate if it serves the purposes of the socialist revolution in destroying capitalism. That's nuts. It has the incidental effect of educating people on the justice system: you need to keep receipts and bring them to court, voluntary contracts are enforceable, and other basics.

Well, to nutshell the thesis of the OP, such shows appeal to and provide a cheap ego-gratificatory release for the cruel streak in the personalities of a great many of us.

Justice is not cruelty and it's not capitalist. It's universal.

Why, pray tell, are conservatives inclined to defend and enjoy cruel television shows?

It's called defense of free speech. People are free to be entertained in any way these wish.

Could it perhaps simply be the case that conservatism is little more than a politicized expression of human nature's cruel streak, and that conservatives are merely people who ideologically rationalize harboring unkind, insensitive, and superior attitudes and opinions?

Silly ad hom attack. No one even said they liked the show. In my view it's trivial, so I'm not a fan.

Furthermore, shows such as Judge Judy also distract us from the real factors in a capitalist society ...

So what forms of entertainment, if any, serve the purposes you find acceptable? I gather nothing with either a frivolous theme or a justice theme, as those would distract people from endless obsession with the imagined evils of capitalism. who would guess that lady Gaga is a tool of capitalism distracting the masses from their proper role of overthrowing the government. Perhaps North Korean state television is acceptable?

... beyond the scapegoats of the dummies who get verbally smacked down by judgmental TV judges, welfare recipients, homosexuals, etc.

All the cases are civil suits, so both the winner and the loser are n the same categories of people who you claim are being scapegoated.

to engage in a deeper critique of the capitalist power structure that's really responsible for their aggrievement. In other words, the response of conservatives to my hostile editorial, as it were, on the Judge Judy Show once again demonstrates that conservatives are anti-underdog and pro-fat cat.

The whole show is underdog v. underdog seeking justice.

Yes, the knee-jerk response of conservatives in this thread has once again revealed the true and unpleasant nature of the "conservative" mentalité (and yo, any anti-intellectuals who feel the urge to respond with an anti-intellectual crack about this bit of fancy spelling, it's been done before).

And why exactly are you afraid of debate? You'd get to make specific charges and present evidence to back them up. Oh wait, that's inconsistent with just spouting unsupported conclusions and mindless attacks.
mongeese
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12/29/2011 2:24:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 2:00:32 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 12/29/2011 1:03:40 PM, mongeese wrote:
I'm pretty sure that conservatives have been arguing so far that Judge Judy's flaws are not the result of capitalism, which makes your conclusion that it reflects problems with capitalism heavily flawed. You then conclude that because they opposed you, your initial assumptions are actually correct. This seems to be some form of circular reasoning, and doesn't follow logic in this universe or any other universe.

This seems to be a bit of reductionism and a straw-manization (to coin a neologism) of my arguments.

A straw-man is necessarily false. What part of my claim is false?
charleslb
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12/29/2011 7:21:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2011 2:14:23 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 12/29/2011 1:57:48 AM, charleslb wrote:
Shows such as Judge Judy do what for us, precisely?

It's entertainment. Your argument is that entertainment is only legitimate if it serves the purposes of the socialist revolution in destroying capitalism. That's nuts.

I never said or implied any such thing. Because I criticize the manner in which a particular program misdirects working-class discontent and scorn at the wrong objects, i.e. at one's neighbors rather than the capitalist elite, and thereby jibes with said capitalist elite's strategy of divide and conquer, it doesn't follow that I think that all entertainment should serve a propagandistic purpose. Your reasoning here is faulty.

It has the incidental effect of educating people on the justice system: you need to keep receipts and bring them to court, voluntary contracts are enforceable, and other basics.

Yeah sure, shows such as Judge Judy do quite a job educating people about the legal system. LOL!!!

Justice is not cruelty and it's not capitalist. It's universal.

Yes, agreed, justice is not cruelty and it's not capitalist, and it is universal.

It's called defense of free speech. People are free to be entertained in any way these wish.

Please don't change the subject simply because you don't have any good arguments. What's at issue in the OP is not anyone's right to view the sort of television programming that they, for whatever reasons, prefer. What's at issue is the nature of the appeal and the social & spiritual impact of mean-spirited shows such as Judge Judy.


Silly ad hom attack. No one even said they liked the show. In my view it's trivial, so I'm not a fan.

In this context ad hominem translates as too psychologically incisive for comfort. And yes, the show is intellectually trivial, subliterate entertainment, but it's not socially trivial.

So what forms of entertainment, if any, serve the purposes you find acceptable? I gather nothing with either a frivolous theme or a justice theme, as those would distract people from endless obsession with the imagined evils of capitalism. who would guess that lady Gaga is a tool of capitalism distracting the masses from their proper role of overthrowing the government. Perhaps North Korean state television is acceptable?

Reductio ad absurdum. There's nothing wrong, in moderation, with non-serious entertainment that serves no social good. But shows such as Judge Judy aren't merely non-serious, they're mean-spirited and do in fact undermine working-class solidarity by promoting the cynical stereotype that would have it that the average, proletarian Joe and Jane is the sort of dumba** who routinely appears before Judge Judy's bench and who is a loser due to his/her own manifest dumba**ness, rather than to a socioeconomic system that's geared to make losers of the masses of ordinary folks. Which is to say that shows such as Judge Judy condition us to blame our neighbors and ourselves for our lack of success when we should of course be thinking critically about the portion of responsibility that belongs to the unbalanced and unjust capitalist power structure. In this way such shows certainly do us a very grievous disservice.

All the cases are civil suits, so both the winner and the loser are n the same categories of people who you claim are being scapegoated.

Again, dumba** loser litigants who serve as whipping boys for the likes of Judge Judy, i.e. who receive her signature tongue lashings, are the scapegoats and objects of contempt who as such distract our critical attention from the corporatocracy, as it were, and who fragment our class solidarity.

The whole show is underdog v. underdog seeking justice.

Precisely. Shows that pit underdogs vs. their fellow underdogs promote what? They certainly don't promote the ability of the underdog masses to make common cause, now do they?!


And why exactly are you afraid of debate? You'd get to make specific charges and present evidence to back them up. Oh wait, that's inconsistent with just spouting unsupported conclusions and mindless attacks.

It's merely your inference that I'm afraid of debate, and here you merely resort to ad hominem opining.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.