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Is it really racist?

TUF
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2/7/2012 12:08:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So today in my Criminal Justice Course at the college, I encountered a little fiasco.

I wanted to get your opinions on the matter. So here's the story:

My criminal justice teacher was going on with his lecture on police brutality, and we were going through some slides showing statistics of where it was most common, what causes it, etc. Then we came to a statistic from the U.S. Justice Bureau of statistics I believe from 2005, that stated that there like 57% of white people who reported police brutality, 30% of african americans, and the rest were other minorities.

Well as we continued the slide show, an african american woman decided to speak up, wanting to go back and find the source for the statistic that he showed us. After the teacher told her that it was the U.S. Bureau of justice statistics, the woman continued to complain that the information was false. Finally she dropped it and we moved on with the class. about 20 minutes later, the woman decided to speak up saying that she couldn't help but be irritated that the statistic was false, because she was browsing through our criminal justice book, which said something about police being 80% more likely to use police abuse against african americans than any other orientation.
The woman then proceeded to call the teacher racist for presenting the first information over the other.

The teacher combatted this by saying that the statistic he showed us wasn't actual police abuse reports, but it was which ethnic group reported more police abuse.

The lady didn't want to accept this, and combatted him saying that this information was irrelevant to the class since it was outdated from 2005 and irrelevant to the class. She stated she was going see to it that the administration fire him for racist behavior, before walking out of the class.

Now I'm not racist, but I honestly thought that the teacher was right in that he was showing us who reported it more, and thus I don't see how he was "racist" in any way shape and form. After talking to some of my class mates who agreed with the woman, that the information should have never been given in the first place due to it's irrelevancy, I decided I would come on here and post it for discussion to see what the members of DDO thought about the situation.

Do you think the teacher was irresponsible and acted racist by showing us the information?
Do you think the woman was wrong for speaking out of turn, and causing the fiasco, or was she justified?

Just interested to know if this is what people classify as racism nowadays, because if they do, then our society clearly is corrupt.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Volkov
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2/7/2012 12:16:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Don't know how a society can be "corrupt" but anyways....

No, it's not racist. Being racist implies that the teacher was actively saying or implying things about African Americans in a negative manner (saying they complain more, etc.), which clearly isn't the case if all your facts are right.

That girl is just being hysterical for no real reason. Lot of people are like that. They speak out of term, maybe on a justified point, and then don't like being corrected, get all up in a tiff, and walk out like they're wronged in some way because the prof or whoever didn't give in to their side. If she was intelligent, she would have waited until after class, with proof about whatever point she was making in hand, and talked rationally with the teacher. Instead, you get bloated ego.

It happens. Prof isn't racist. She's just an idiot.
TUF
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2/7/2012 12:22:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 12:16:29 PM, Volkov wrote:
Don't know how a society can be "corrupt" but anyways....

No, it's not racist. Being racist implies that the teacher was actively saying or implying things about African Americans in a negative manner (saying they complain more, etc.), which clearly isn't the case if all your facts are right.

That girl is just being hysterical for no real reason. Lot of people are like that. They speak out of term, maybe on a justified point, and then don't like being corrected, get all up in a tiff, and walk out like they're wronged in some way because the prof or whoever didn't give in to their side. If she was intelligent, she would have waited until after class, with proof about whatever point she was making in hand, and talked rationally with the teacher. Instead, you get bloated ego.

It happens. Prof isn't racist. She's just an idiot.

Glad to know, someone else agrees with me. I feel the same way.

Does anyone think the african american woman was justified? If so why?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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2/7/2012 12:24:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ehh I wouldn't call it racist. But why the professor thought it was relevant is beyond me. The only way it would make sense to bring up a statistic like that is to acknowledge that despite actual incidents being much more common with minorities, minorities are less likely to report.

I think the girl is probably more embarrassed than anything. She said something stupid in the heat of the moment and realized she could never show her face there again.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/7/2012 12:46:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No, it was not racist. What was the context of the statistic? My guess is that the professor was discussing the fact that minorities are less likely to report police abuse, which is not relevant to the fact that minorities are more likely to be abused by the police.

I think that the girl just misinterpreted what the professor said and then felt like a moron.
Brain_crazy
Posts: 242
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2/7/2012 12:52:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 12:08:11 PM, TUF wrote:
So today in my Criminal Justice Course at the college, I encountered a little fiasco.

I wanted to get your opinions on the matter. So here's the story:

My criminal justice teacher was going on with his lecture on police brutality, and we were going through some slides showing statistics of where it was most common, what causes it, etc. Then we came to a statistic from the U.S. Justice Bureau of statistics I believe from 2005, that stated that there like 57% of white people who reported police brutality, 30% of african americans, and the rest were other minorities.

Well as we continued the slide show, an african american woman decided to speak up, wanting to go back and find the source for the statistic that he showed us. After the teacher told her that it was the U.S. Bureau of justice statistics, the woman continued to complain that the information was false. Finally she dropped it and we moved on with the class. about 20 minutes later, the woman decided to speak up saying that she couldn't help but be irritated that the statistic was false, because she was browsing through our criminal justice book, which said something about police being 80% more likely to use police abuse against african americans than any other orientation.
The woman then proceeded to call the teacher racist for presenting the first information over the other.

The teacher combatted this by saying that the statistic he showed us wasn't actual police abuse reports, but it was which ethnic group reported more police abuse.

The lady didn't want to accept this, and combatted him saying that this information was irrelevant to the class since it was outdated from 2005 and irrelevant to the class. She stated she was going see to it that the administration fire him for racist behavior, before walking out of the class.

Now I'm not racist, but I honestly thought that the teacher was right in that he was showing us who reported it more, and thus I don't see how he was "racist" in any way shape and form. After talking to some of my class mates who agreed with the woman, that the information should have never been given in the first place due to it's irrelevancy, I decided I would come on here and post it for discussion to see what the members of DDO thought about the situation.

Do you think the teacher was irresponsible and acted racist by showing us the information?
Do you think the woman was wrong for speaking out of turn, and causing the fiasco, or was she justified?

Just interested to know if this is what people classify as racism nowadays, because if they do, then our society clearly is corrupt.

not racist, perhaps he could have added that minorities tend to live in greater poverty and this could be a major reason for the statistic, but no it was by no means racist.
TUF
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2/7/2012 1:30:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 12:46:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
No, it was not racist. What was the context of the statistic?

Pretty much what you said
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
royalpaladin
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2/7/2012 1:34:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 1:30:16 PM, TUF wrote:
At 2/7/2012 12:46:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
No, it was not racist. What was the context of the statistic?

Pretty much what you said

LOL, then the statistic is pretty much not racist because it was demonstrating the fact that minorities are less likely to trust a society that does not treat them well.

That girl was an idiot.
Lordknukle
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2/7/2012 1:44:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is not at all racist. The hard truth and facts are painful, especially for those who cannot except them. It is true that Blacks are on average more violent and more prone to crimes.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
royalpaladin
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2/7/2012 1:57:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 1:44:37 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
This is not at all racist. The hard truth and facts are painful, especially for those who cannot except them. It is true that Blacks are on average more violent and more prone to crimes.

That was not the context of the statistic. I doubt that you understood what the statistic actually said, so I am not going to bother explaining it to you.
ashtronomy
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2/7/2012 1:58:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
How do you argue against a statistic? Unless the statistic was clearly an error or out of date, then I guess the truth irritated that woman. Obviously she took offense to the lesson because she had a preconceived idea of police brutality. No one is justified to cause a fiasco due to, what they believe, is an insult after a statistical measure.
Lordknukle
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2/7/2012 2:01:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 1:57:19 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/7/2012 1:44:37 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
This is not at all racist. The hard truth and facts are painful, especially for those who cannot except them. It is true that Blacks are on average more violent and more prone to crimes.

That was not the context of the statistic. I doubt that you understood what the statistic actually said, so I am not going to bother explaining it to you.

I'm not directly talking about that statistic, but of the other plethora of statistics that prove my point.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
nonentity
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2/7/2012 2:03:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 1:58:57 PM, ashtronomy wrote:
How do you argue against a statistic?

Um you actually can. Have you ever taken a Stats course? Statistics are subject to interpretation.

Unless the statistic was clearly an error or out of date, then I guess the truth irritated that woman. Obviously she took offense to the lesson because she had a preconceived idea of police brutality. No one is justified to cause a fiasco due to, what they believe, is an insult after a statistical measure.
royalpaladin
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2/7/2012 2:05:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 2:01:26 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 2/7/2012 1:57:19 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/7/2012 1:44:37 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
This is not at all racist. The hard truth and facts are painful, especially for those who cannot except them. It is true that Blacks are on average more violent and more prone to crimes.

That was not the context of the statistic. I doubt that you understood what the statistic actually said, so I am not going to bother explaining it to you.

I'm not directly talking about that statistic, but of the other plethora of statistics that prove my point.

Yeah, even the FBI concedes that the system convicts unfairly . . . Caucasians are more wealthy, and it is easier for police to catch the destitute than it is to catch the wealthy. In addition, convictions are easier to secure on the destitute because they usually have poor legal representation.

For example, Caucasians use more cocaine than African Americans do (this is a well known fact), but African Americans are more likely to be arrested for using cocaine.
royalpaladin
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2/7/2012 2:06:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 1:58:57 PM, ashtronomy wrote:
How do you argue against a statistic? Unless the statistic was clearly an error or out of date, then I guess the truth irritated that woman. Obviously she took offense to the lesson because she had a preconceived idea of police brutality. No one is justified to cause a fiasco due to, what they believe, is an insult after a statistical measure.

Simple. You can question how the study was done, how the samples were taken, whether or not the author's interpretation of statistical significance is flawed, etc. Statistics are not absolute truth.
royalpaladin
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2/7/2012 2:09:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Knukle, your argument also discounts the fact that the destitute are more likely to commit crimes due to economic stress, an inability to care about society since they have no stake in it, etc.

African Americans tend to be significantly less wealthy than Caucasians are.
imabench
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2/7/2012 2:16:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not racist, woman is just being a dumbass...
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MarquisX
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2/7/2012 2:41:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not racist. She just interpreted the data wrong. She was thinking that whites are more likely to be brutalized by police, when what the start really shows is whites are more likely to complain about being brutalized.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
OberHerr
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2/7/2012 3:02:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Truth hurts? I don't see how it was racist though.

I expect that girl to get laughed out by the administration.
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royalpaladin
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2/7/2012 3:06:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 3:02:18 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Truth hurts? I don't see how it was racist though.

It is pretty sad that the people who are abused by the police the most do not trust society enough to report it.
I expect that girl to get laughed out by the administration.

While I agree she was being stupid, you do not have to be so callous in your remarks.
OberHerr
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2/7/2012 3:23:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 3:06:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/7/2012 3:02:18 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Truth hurts? I don't see how it was racist though.

It is pretty sad that the people who are abused by the police the most do not trust society enough to report it.

I'm not sure if that's the conclusion I made from the info, but whatever.
I expect that girl to get laughed out by the administration.

While I agree she was being stupid, you do not have to be so callous in your remarks.

Well, she sounds like someone who gets offended by ANY information that could maybe, just barely if you were EXTREMELY sensitive, be taken as racist, and goes and reports it to the authorities.

Shes probably one of the people that said that if you didn't vote for Obama, your racist.
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royalpaladin
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2/7/2012 3:31:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 3:23:50 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/7/2012 3:06:45 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/7/2012 3:02:18 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Truth hurts? I don't see how it was racist though.

It is pretty sad that the people who are abused by the police the most do not trust society enough to report it.

I'm not sure if that's the conclusion I made from the info, but whatever.
That was the conclusion that the professor was drawing.
I expect that girl to get laughed out by the administration.

While I agree she was being stupid, you do not have to be so callous in your remarks.

Well, she sounds like someone who gets offended by ANY information that could maybe, just barely if you were EXTREMELY sensitive, be taken as racist, and goes and reports it to the authorities.

Shes probably one of the people that said that if you didn't vote for Obama, your racist.

Who said that? I doubt anybody actually said that . . .
mongoose
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2/7/2012 4:12:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 12:08:11 PM, TUF wrote:
My criminal justice teacher was going on with his lecture on police brutality, and we were going through some slides showing statistics of where it was most common, what causes it, etc. Then we came to a statistic from the U.S. Justice Bureau of statistics I believe from 2005, that stated that there like 57% of white people who reported police brutality, 30% of african americans, and the rest were other minorities.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting this, because your phrasing is rather odd, but I think you're saying that 30% of people who report police brutality are black. Blacks make up about 12% of the population, so they actually report police brutality about 150% more than other races.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
royalpaladin
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2/7/2012 4:18:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 4:12:17 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 2/7/2012 12:08:11 PM, TUF wrote:
My criminal justice teacher was going on with his lecture on police brutality, and we were going through some slides showing statistics of where it was most common, what causes it, etc. Then we came to a statistic from the U.S. Justice Bureau of statistics I believe from 2005, that stated that there like 57% of white people who reported police brutality, 30% of african americans, and the rest were other minorities.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting this, because your phrasing is rather odd, but I think you're saying that 30% of people who report police brutality are black. Blacks make up about 12% of the population, so they actually report police brutality about 150% more than other races.

They also experience it 80% more of the time than other races do, which is something that you are not taking into account.
darkkermit
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2/7/2012 4:50:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 4:18:31 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/7/2012 4:12:17 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 2/7/2012 12:08:11 PM, TUF wrote:
My criminal justice teacher was going on with his lecture on police brutality, and we were going through some slides showing statistics of where it was most common, what causes it, etc. Then we came to a statistic from the U.S. Justice Bureau of statistics I believe from 2005, that stated that there like 57% of white people who reported police brutality, 30% of african americans, and the rest were other minorities.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting this, because your phrasing is rather odd, but I think you're saying that 30% of people who report police brutality are black. Blacks make up about 12% of the population, so they actually report police brutality about 150% more than other races.

They also experience it 80% more of the time than other races do, which is something that you are not taking into account.

So they are on average, more likely to report police brutality then a white person, assuming the above is correct.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/7/2012 5:11:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Do you think the teacher was irresponsible and acted racist by showing us the information?:

Do you even need to ask? If what you stated is accurate, it sounds like the woman was hysterical over facts that inconveniently ran counter to her presupposed worldview.

She sounds completely unreasonable and I find it disturbing that an irrational and emotive woman like potentially might be wearing a badge one day.
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nonentity
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2/7/2012 5:45:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 4:50:10 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 2/7/2012 4:18:31 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/7/2012 4:12:17 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 2/7/2012 12:08:11 PM, TUF wrote:
My criminal justice teacher was going on with his lecture on police brutality, and we were going through some slides showing statistics of where it was most common, what causes it, etc. Then we came to a statistic from the U.S. Justice Bureau of statistics I believe from 2005, that stated that there like 57% of white people who reported police brutality, 30% of african americans, and the rest were other minorities.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting this, because your phrasing is rather odd, but I think you're saying that 30% of people who report police brutality are black. Blacks make up about 12% of the population, so they actually report police brutality about 150% more than other races.

They also experience it 80% more of the time than other races do, which is something that you are not taking into account.

So they are on average, more likely to report police brutality then a white person, assuming the above is correct.

Yeah, it's worded really funny. I had assumed it meant 57% of white people and 30% of black people reported police brutality. I thought that was weird.

I also assumed that the girl was upset because the teacher didn't mention the fact that it was more likely to occur to black people.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/7/2012 6:04:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 12:24:21 PM, nonentity wrote:
Ehh I wouldn't call it racist. But why the professor thought it was relevant is beyond me. The only way it would make sense to bring up a statistic like that is to acknowledge that despite actual incidents being much more common with minorities, minorities are less likely to report.

There are no statistics of actual incidence, only what one set of people or other reported.
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nonentity
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2/7/2012 6:10:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 6:04:05 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/7/2012 12:24:21 PM, nonentity wrote:
Ehh I wouldn't call it racist. But why the professor thought it was relevant is beyond me. The only way it would make sense to bring up a statistic like that is to acknowledge that despite actual incidents being much more common with minorities, minorities are less likely to report.

There are no statistics of actual incidence, only what one set of people or other reported.

I see... I had assumed the 80% statistic the girl was referring to was based on estimates or studies. I don't know numbers regarding the population of the US so I don't know what the 57% and 30% actually mean.
TUF
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2/7/2012 6:16:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/7/2012 4:12:17 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 2/7/2012 12:08:11 PM, TUF wrote:
My criminal justice teacher was going on with his lecture on police brutality, and we were going through some slides showing statistics of where it was most common, what causes it, etc. Then we came to a statistic from the U.S. Justice Bureau of statistics I believe from 2005, that stated that there like 57% of white people who reported police brutality, 30% of african americans, and the rest were other minorities.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting this, because your phrasing is rather odd, but I think you're saying that 30% of people who report police brutality are black. Blacks make up about 12% of the population, so they actually report police brutality about 150% more than other races.

I don't understand what you mean? The whole is the total number of people taken into account who have reported police abuse. The percentage, is what ethinicity they were. 30% or so of the people that reported police brutality were african american.
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