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inferno
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2/28/2012 11:59:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I heard an idiot by the name of Puff Daddy utter these ominous words while promoting his new network on live television at the NBA All Star game.
Now at first I did not think anything of it when it was heard. But then after the game I came back to reality and realized this. What if those same words came from a
White entertainer. There is a double standard when it comes to what Blacks and Whites can do and say here in America. But sometimes we have to draw lines in the sand in order to thwart out division in our society. Some say that Black Power is different from White. Well, it depends on how you view this story.
Was it really necessary ? I am sure that some Whites were offended when they heard this. What do you think.
inferno
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2/28/2012 12:13:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 12:10:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
You don't believe Black pride is a good thing do you?

I already have pride in my accomplishments and what I am capable of doing as a Man. What does my color have to do with that ? I understand the logic behind it all, and I am proud of my people. But why does it matter to us anyway.
Nationalism is just another way of being a collective slave to propaganda.
It is a falsehood. Your securities should not rely on racial pride.
breaxxbaxx
Posts: 42
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2/28/2012 1:09:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think it probably depends on the individual, but "black power" is usually about empowering a group of people that don't necessarily always feel very empowered. I don't think Puff Daddy is trying to send the message that black people are superior to white people, but just that black people should take pride and own it.

I wouldn't say it's a double standard because there's really no reason for a white person to feel disempowered due to their race in this country. So, when a white person starts chanting "white power", it seems a bit suspect. Especially considering that the only people who usually are chanting "white power" are pretty open racists.
inferno
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2/28/2012 1:34:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:09:04 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
I think it probably depends on the individual, but "black power" is usually about empowering a group of people that don't necessarily always feel very empowered. I don't think Puff Daddy is trying to send the message that black people are superior to white people, but just that black people should take pride and own it.

I wouldn't say it's a double standard because there's really no reason for a white person to feel disempowered due to their race in this country. So, when a white person starts chanting "white power", it seems a bit suspect. Especially considering that the only people who usually are chanting "white power" are pretty open racists.

But that is my point. Thats where the double standard comes into play.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/28/2012 7:35:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:09:04 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
I think it probably depends on the individual, but "black power" is usually about empowering a group of people that don't necessarily always feel very empowered. I don't think Puff Daddy is trying to send the message that black people are superior to white people, but just that black people should take pride and own it.

I wouldn't say it's a double standard because there's really no reason for a white person to feel disempowered due to their race in this country. So, when a white person starts chanting "white power", it seems a bit suspect. Especially considering that the only people who usually are chanting "white power" are pretty open racists.

The Fool: its just as wrong. We tend to be lenient to hate minority group, but its wrong and even harmfull to thier own group. Hate is hate minority or not.

Its false in the sense that its sayin colour does represent power. if this is true, then Racism is Right. That means it legitament to treat people inferior or not according to colour. So if what Puff Daddy is saying is right then maybe blacks should be treated based of colour. For he might on the other hand be referring to afro-american suburban culture. By why say it at all, because this power only makes sense in relation on other cultures, thus making it a slander to others.

But my argument is that because we are more tolarant on minorty bias, it get taken as a positive assertion that such group is really superior and the the majority is in fact lesser.

That is many black people think whites are lesser because they had slaves, but Black people have done the same, We blame whites just because they were doing it last. And we forget that they are also the one who fought other whites to abolish it. Imagine if the civil war was lost.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
breaxxbaxx
Posts: 42
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2/28/2012 9:14:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 1:34:09 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/28/2012 1:09:04 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
I think it probably depends on the individual, but "black power" is usually about empowering a group of people that don't necessarily always feel very empowered. I don't think Puff Daddy is trying to send the message that black people are superior to white people, but just that black people should take pride and own it.

I wouldn't say it's a double standard because there's really no reason for a white person to feel disempowered due to their race in this country. So, when a white person starts chanting "white power", it seems a bit suspect. Especially considering that the only people who usually are chanting "white power" are pretty open racists.

But that is my point. Thats where the double standard comes into play.

My point is that it's not a double standard because the two groups are working on two different levels. Black people, as a whole, don't have the same power white people have in the western world. From my own experience, when a black person talks about "black power" or "black pride", it's about empowering a group that have many of it's members deal with varying insecurities about their race. White people don't deal with those issues. When it's coming from black people it's typically not about superiority. It's kind of more about confidence boosting. When it's coming from white people, it's typically about superiority.

It's also largely to do with culture. Black culture, as a whole, is not mainstream culture. Now, i'm not trying to claim that there is some monolithic way of life that all black people adhere to. I'm generalizing obviously. White culture is mainstream, it's kind of like air. It's taken for granted. So, white people don't typically take pride in their race (unless they're racist), they take pride in their heritage. For example, I'm from Boston, we have a whole lot of Irish pride happening here. People are very open and loud about it. So, it make sense when people take pride in cultures that aren't of the majority. It's human nature.
breaxxbaxx
Posts: 42
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2/28/2012 9:24:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 7:35:22 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

The Fool: its just as wrong. We tend to be lenient to hate minority group, but its wrong and even harmfull to thier own group. Hate is hate minority or not.

Its false in the sense that its sayin colour does represent power. if this is true, then Racism is Right. That means it legitament to treat people inferior or not according to colour. So if what Puff Daddy is saying is right then maybe blacks should be treated based of colour. For he might on the other hand be referring to afro-american suburban culture. By why say it at all, because this power only makes sense in relation on other cultures, thus making it a slander to others.

But my argument is that because we are more tolarant on minorty bias, it get taken as a positive assertion that such group is really superior and the the majority is in fact lesser.

That is many black people think whites are lesser because they had slaves, but Black people have done the same, We blame whites just because they were doing it last. And we forget that they are also the one who fought other whites to abolish it. Imagine if the civil war was lost.

I think you might be jumping the gun a bit when you assume that Puff Daddy was hating on anyone when said "black power."

The unfortunate reality is that we do not live in a color blind society. Racism still exists. So, there is differences in the experiences between people of different races. I would love to pretend that it isn't the case, and that everyone loves each-other, but that's just not reality. The majority of the people in power in the western world are white. That's a fact. White people have certain privileges that black people don't. Acknowledging this does not make one a racist.

When Puff Daddy said "black power", I don't think he was saying "black people are better than white people." I think he was just sending the message to other black people that they have power, as many black people often times feel they don't. You have to look at everything in context.

Now, if Puff Daddy had a history of going around proclaiming that black people are better than whites, I would have looked at his statement in a different light.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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2/29/2012 3:06:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 9:24:18 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
When Puff Daddy said "black power", I don't think he was saying "black people are better than white people." I think he was just sending the message to other black people that they have power, as many black people often times feel they don't. You have to look at everything in context.

Now, if Puff Daddy had a history of going around proclaiming that black people are better than whites, I would have looked at his statement in a different light.

Nothing fustrates me more than whites who have a problem with this concept.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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2/29/2012 3:10:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/29/2012 3:06:36 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/28/2012 9:24:18 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
When Puff Daddy said "black power", I don't think he was saying "black people are better than white people." I think he was just sending the message to other black people that they have power, as many black people often times feel they don't. You have to look at everything in context.

Now, if Puff Daddy had a history of going around proclaiming that black people are better than whites, I would have looked at his statement in a different light.

Nothing fustrates me more than whites who have a problem with this concept.

+1
breaxxbaxx
Posts: 42
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2/29/2012 11:18:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/29/2012 3:06:36 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/28/2012 9:24:18 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
When Puff Daddy said "black power", I don't think he was saying "black people are better than white people." I think he was just sending the message to other black people that they have power, as many black people often times feel they don't. You have to look at everything in context.

Now, if Puff Daddy had a history of going around proclaiming that black people are better than whites, I would have looked at his statement in a different light.

Nothing fustrates me more than whites who have a problem with this concept.

Go on...
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/29/2012 2:13:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 9:24:18 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/28/2012 7:35:22 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

The Fool: its just as wrong. We tend to be lenient to hate minority group, but its wrong and even harmfull to thier own group. Hate is hate minority or not.

Its false in the sense that its sayin colour does represent power. if this is true, then Racism is Right. That means it legitament to treat people inferior or not according to colour. So if what Puff Daddy is saying is right then maybe blacks should be treated based of colour. For he might on the other hand be referring to afro-american suburban culture. By why say it at all, because this power only makes sense in relation on other cultures, thus making it a slander to others.

But my argument is that because we are more tolarant on minorty bias, it get taken as a positive assertion that such group is really superior and the the majority is in fact lesser.

That is many black people think whites are lesser because they had slaves, but Black people have done the same, We blame whites just because they were doing it last. And we forget that they are also the one who fought other whites to abolish it. Imagine if the civil war was lost.

I think you might be jumping the gun a bit when you assume that Puff Daddy was hating on anyone when said "black power."

The unfortunate reality is that we do not live in a color blind society. Racism still exists. So, there is differences in the experiences between people of different races. I would love to pretend that it isn't the case, and that everyone loves each-other, but that's just not reality. The majority of the people in power in the western world are white. That's a fact. White people have certain privileges that black people don't. Acknowledging this does not make one a racist.

When Puff Daddy said "black power", I don't think he was saying "black people are better than white people." I think he was just sending the message to other black people that they have power, as many black people often times feel they don't. You have to look at everything in context.

Now, if Puff Daddy had a history of going around proclaiming that black people are better than whites, I would have looked at his statement in a different light.

The Fool: try and read clearly don;t skip the IF THEN conditions. They the world of a difference.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
sadolite
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2/29/2012 5:15:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Screw all organized power. I am an individual. Screw race, screw multiculturalism, screw all that crap that labels people. Be an individual and belong to no group as it will bring you down and try to break your spirit and define you by the least common denominator of that group. When you belong to groups you are no better than it's worst member.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
breaxxbaxx
Posts: 42
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2/29/2012 7:30:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/29/2012 2:13:17 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/28/2012 9:24:18 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/28/2012 7:35:22 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

The Fool: its just as wrong. We tend to be lenient to hate minority group, but its wrong and even harmfull to thier own group. Hate is hate minority or not.

Its false in the sense that its sayin colour does represent power. if this is true, then Racism is Right. That means it legitament to treat people inferior or not according to colour. So if what Puff Daddy is saying is right then maybe blacks should be treated based of colour. For he might on the other hand be referring to afro-american suburban culture. By why say it at all, because this power only makes sense in relation on other cultures, thus making it a slander to others.

But my argument is that because we are more tolarant on minorty bias, it get taken as a positive assertion that such group is really superior and the the majority is in fact lesser.

That is many black people think whites are lesser because they had slaves, but Black people have done the same, We blame whites just because they were doing it last. And we forget that they are also the one who fought other whites to abolish it. Imagine if the civil war was lost.

I think you might be jumping the gun a bit when you assume that Puff Daddy was hating on anyone when said "black power."

The unfortunate reality is that we do not live in a color blind society. Racism still exists. So, there is differences in the experiences between people of different races. I would love to pretend that it isn't the case, and that everyone loves each-other, but that's just not reality. The majority of the people in power in the western world are white. That's a fact. White people have certain privileges that black people don't. Acknowledging this does not make one a racist.

When Puff Daddy said "black power", I don't think he was saying "black people are better than white people." I think he was just sending the message to other black people that they have power, as many black people often times feel they don't. You have to look at everything in context.

Now, if Puff Daddy had a history of going around proclaiming that black people are better than whites, I would have looked at his statement in a different light.

The Fool: try and read clearly don;t skip the IF THEN conditions. They the world of a difference.

I did read your post clearly. You're trying to make the argument that Puff Daddy is saying that "black represents power." And I'm gathering that you somehow believe that he was trying to say that black people are superior. But this is not the case.

Like I said before, all Puff Daddy was trying to say was that black people have power as opposed to being powerless. Again, you have to put things in context. Black people still face racism. White people still make up the majority of the people actually in power. Things are not equal yet. Many black people do feel lesser than as a result of all that. So, "black power", "black pride", black is beautiful", etc. appeared to counter negative attitudes people had towards black people and many blacks had toward themselves, and still do to this days although some of those slogans are a bit old-school.

I think the problem is that "black power" gets associated with "white power." The problem is "white power" has almost exclusively been used by white supremacists. "Black power" has a much more diverse history, while some of people who have used the phrase were black supremacists, many weren't.

The other issue with black pride vs. white pride is that white people are the majority in the western world. Again, white culture is like air. We take it for granted. We're used to seeing the majority of the people in television, movies, magazines, etc. be white. We're used to being taught mostly about white history in school instead of just designating one month out of the year to it like we do black history. We're used to seeing mostly white politicians. To have "white pride" or to go out and chant "white power" would just be redundant anywhere in the western world. Which is why most white people don't feel the need to take pride in the color of their skin. But many will take pride in the fact that they are Irish, Italian, German, women, gay, American, etc.
inferno
Posts: 10,660
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3/1/2012 9:58:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/29/2012 7:30:15 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/29/2012 2:13:17 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/28/2012 9:24:18 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/28/2012 7:35:22 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

The Fool: its just as wrong. We tend to be lenient to hate minority group, but its wrong and even harmfull to thier own group. Hate is hate minority or not.

Its false in the sense that its sayin colour does represent power. if this is true, then Racism is Right. That means it legitament to treat people inferior or not according to colour. So if what Puff Daddy is saying is right then maybe blacks should be treated based of colour. For he might on the other hand be referring to afro-american suburban culture. By why say it at all, because this power only makes sense in relation on other cultures, thus making it a slander to others.

But my argument is that because we are more tolarant on minorty bias, it get taken as a positive assertion that such group is really superior and the the majority is in fact lesser.

That is many black people think whites are lesser because they had slaves, but Black people have done the same, We blame whites just because they were doing it last. And we forget that they are also the one who fought other whites to abolish it. Imagine if the civil war was lost.

I think you might be jumping the gun a bit when you assume that Puff Daddy was hating on anyone when said "black power."

The unfortunate reality is that we do not live in a color blind society. Racism still exists. So, there is differences in the experiences between people of different races. I would love to pretend that it isn't the case, and that everyone loves each-other, but that's just not reality. The majority of the people in power in the western world are white. That's a fact. White people have certain privileges that black people don't. Acknowledging this does not make one a racist.

When Puff Daddy said "black power", I don't think he was saying "black people are better than white people." I think he was just sending the message to other black people that they have power, as many black people often times feel they don't. You have to look at everything in context.

Now, if Puff Daddy had a history of going around proclaiming that black people are better than whites, I would have looked at his statement in a different light.

The Fool: try and read clearly don;t skip the IF THEN conditions. They the world of a difference.

I did read your post clearly. You're trying to make the argument that Puff Daddy is saying that "black represents power." And I'm gathering that you somehow believe that he was trying to say that black people are superior. But this is not the case.

Like I said before, all Puff Daddy was trying to say was that black people have power as opposed to being powerless. Again, you have to put things in context. Black people still face racism. White people still make up the majority of the people actually in power. Things are not equal yet. Many black people do feel lesser than as a result of all that. So, "black power", "black pride", black is beautiful", etc. appeared to counter negative attitudes people had towards black people and many blacks had toward themselves, and still do to this days although some of those slogans are a bit old-school.

I think the problem is that "black power" gets associated with "white power." The problem is "white power" has almost exclusively been used by white supremacists. "Black power" has a much more diverse history, while some of people who have used the phrase were black supremacists, many weren't.

The other issue with black pride vs. white pride is that white people are the majority in the western world. Again, white culture is like air. We take it for granted. We're used to seeing the majority of the people in television, movies, magazines, etc. be white. We're used to being taught mostly about white history in school instead of just designating one month out of the year to it like we do black history. We're used to seeing mostly white politicians. To have "white pride" or to go out and chant "white power" would just be redundant anywhere in the western world. Which is why most white people don't feel the need to take pride in the color of their skin. But many will take pride in the fact that they are Irish, Italian, German, women, gay, American, etc.

This may be true. But you also must realize the dangers of public announcement. Especially the political ones. It is incidents like these that confuse........A hate group would look at this and think this is part of Liberation theology. They view this as a message of hate and divisiveness. So it would be easy for a racist or hatemonger to deem this a racial undertone, or false representation of Black empowerment theology. I would not have said this in a public forum on live television.
It sends the wrong message to the wrong people. They will misinterpret this for sure. But did PUFF DADDY really have to say what he did. Not really.
breaxxbaxx
Posts: 42
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3/1/2012 11:02:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 9:58:26 AM, inferno wrote:
At 2/29/2012 7:30:15 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/29/2012 2:13:17 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 2/28/2012 9:24:18 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/28/2012 7:35:22 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

The Fool: its just as wrong. We tend to be lenient to hate minority group, but its wrong and even harmfull to thier own group. Hate is hate minority or not.

Its false in the sense that its sayin colour does represent power. if this is true, then Racism is Right. That means it legitament to treat people inferior or not according to colour. So if what Puff Daddy is saying is right then maybe blacks should be treated based of colour. For he might on the other hand be referring to afro-american suburban culture. By why say it at all, because this power only makes sense in relation on other cultures, thus making it a slander to others.

But my argument is that because we are more tolarant on minorty bias, it get taken as a positive assertion that such group is really superior and the the majority is in fact lesser.

That is many black people think whites are lesser because they had slaves, but Black people have done the same, We blame whites just because they were doing it last. And we forget that they are also the one who fought other whites to abolish it. Imagine if the civil war was lost.

I think you might be jumping the gun a bit when you assume that Puff Daddy was hating on anyone when said "black power."

The unfortunate reality is that we do not live in a color blind society. Racism still exists. So, there is differences in the experiences between people of different races. I would love to pretend that it isn't the case, and that everyone loves each-other, but that's just not reality. The majority of the people in power in the western world are white. That's a fact. White people have certain privileges that black people don't. Acknowledging this does not make one a racist.

When Puff Daddy said "black power", I don't think he was saying "black people are better than white people." I think he was just sending the message to other black people that they have power, as many black people often times feel they don't. You have to look at everything in context.

Now, if Puff Daddy had a history of going around proclaiming that black people are better than whites, I would have looked at his statement in a different light.

The Fool: try and read clearly don;t skip the IF THEN conditions. They the world of a difference.

I did read your post clearly. You're trying to make the argument that Puff Daddy is saying that "black represents power." And I'm gathering that you somehow believe that he was trying to say that black people are superior. But this is not the case.

Like I said before, all Puff Daddy was trying to say was that black people have power as opposed to being powerless. Again, you have to put things in context. Black people still face racism. White people still make up the majority of the people actually in power. Things are not equal yet. Many black people do feel lesser than as a result of all that. So, "black power", "black pride", black is beautiful", etc. appeared to counter negative attitudes people had towards black people and many blacks had toward themselves, and still do to this days although some of those slogans are a bit old-school.

I think the problem is that "black power" gets associated with "white power." The problem is "white power" has almost exclusively been used by white supremacists. "Black power" has a much more diverse history, while some of people who have used the phrase were black supremacists, many weren't.

The other issue with black pride vs. white pride is that white people are the majority in the western world. Again, white culture is like air. We take it for granted. We're used to seeing the majority of the people in television, movies, magazines, etc. be white. We're used to being taught mostly about white history in school instead of just designating one month out of the year to it like we do black history. We're used to seeing mostly white politicians. To have "white pride" or to go out and chant "white power" would just be redundant anywhere in the western world. Which is why most white people don't feel the need to take pride in the color of their skin. But many will take pride in the fact that they are Irish, Italian, German, women, gay, American, etc.


This may be true. But you also must realize the dangers of public announcement. Especially the political ones. It is incidents like these that confuse........A hate group would look at this and think this is part of Liberation theology. They view this as a message of hate and divisiveness. So it would be easy for a racist or hatemonger to deem this a racial undertone, or false representation of Black empowerment theology. I would not have said this in a public forum on live television.
It sends the wrong message to the wrong people. They will misinterpret this for sure. But did PUFF DADDY really have to say what he did. Not really.

I know where you're coming from, but at the end of the day it's up to the individual whether or not they want to appease the ignorant. Hate groups are always going to find a way to spin something to the negative. I don't think there's any escaping that. They typically don't hate for very rational reasons.

I don't believe anyone should have to censor themselves. Black, white, or whatever. Racist or not. I think we should try and get rid of racism, intentional or otherwise, by actually discussing it and educating people. There's a lot of widespread ignorance out there about the issue. Pretending we live in a colorblind and equal society when we don't won't help anyone. Not that I'm suggesting you're doing any of these things. I just had to go off on a tangent.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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3/1/2012 11:40:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 12:13:33 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:10:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
You don't believe Black pride is a good thing do you?

I already have pride in my accomplishments and what I am capable of doing as a Man. What does my color have to do with that ? I understand the logic behind it all, and I am proud of my people. But why does it matter to us anyway.
Nationalism is just another way of being a collective slave to propaganda.
It is a falsehood. Your securities should not rely on racial pride.

O.O

Wow, word.

Word is born. Bravo.
breaxxbaxx
Posts: 42
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3/1/2012 12:03:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/28/2012 12:13:33 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:10:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
You don't believe Black pride is a good thing do you?

I already have pride in my accomplishments and what I am capable of doing as a Man. What does my color have to do with that ? I understand the logic behind it all, and I am proud of my people. But why does it matter to us anyway.
Nationalism is just another way of being a collective slave to propaganda.
It is a falsehood. Your securities should not rely on racial pride.

I think typically people have the most pride in their race had previously the most shame. So, it's the pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other. But I think it's human nature. You see it in the gay community and you see it with women "owning" their curves.

When society creates a situation where it makes people feel ashamed to be a certain way, typically how these people rise above it is by finding pride in it. If we get rid circumstances that allow people to be ashamed of those things to begin with, then people will feel less need to wave a flag.
inferno
Posts: 10,660
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3/1/2012 12:29:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 12:03:16 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:13:33 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:10:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
You don't believe Black pride is a good thing do you?

I already have pride in my accomplishments and what I am capable of doing as a Man. What does my color have to do with that ? I understand the logic behind it all, and I am proud of my people. But why does it matter to us anyway.
Nationalism is just another way of being a collective slave to propaganda.
It is a falsehood. Your securities should not rely on racial pride.

I think typically people have the most pride in their race had previously the most shame. So, it's the pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other. But I think it's human nature. You see it in the gay community and you see it with women "owning" their curves.

When society creates a situation where it makes people feel ashamed to be a certain way, typically how these people rise above it is by finding pride in it. If we get rid circumstances that allow people to be ashamed of those things to begin with, then people will feel less need to wave a flag.

I agree. But people are like drones, they follow what they see. Subconsciously they pick up bad habits and social trends that are almost inevitable.
breaxxbaxx
Posts: 42
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3/1/2012 12:58:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 12:29:16 PM, inferno wrote:
At 3/1/2012 12:03:16 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:13:33 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:10:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
You don't believe Black pride is a good thing do you?

I already have pride in my accomplishments and what I am capable of doing as a Man. What does my color have to do with that ? I understand the logic behind it all, and I am proud of my people. But why does it matter to us anyway.
Nationalism is just another way of being a collective slave to propaganda.
It is a falsehood. Your securities should not rely on racial pride.

I think typically people have the most pride in their race had previously the most shame. So, it's the pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other. But I think it's human nature. You see it in the gay community and you see it with women "owning" their curves.

When society creates a situation where it makes people feel ashamed to be a certain way, typically how these people rise above it is by finding pride in it. If we get rid circumstances that allow people to be ashamed of those things to begin with, then people will feel less need to wave a flag.

I agree. But people are like drones, they follow what they see. Subconsciously they pick up bad habits and social trends that are almost inevitable.

But I don't know if this is so much a "monkey see monkey do" situation as much as it is a more natural human reaction to being told they have to be ashamed of themselves due to a particular characteristic. They go to the opposite, which is pride, to prove the point to themselves and to others. Being in an environment that says being black is totally cool and fine, instead of it being undesirable or simply making you invisible, does a lot to help people.

And I suppose you could also argue that "black pride" doesn't comes from simply being born black, it can come from overcoming the shame/insecurities. Which is an accomplishment. The overcoming of the shame comes first, the pride comes second. Not necessarily always the other way around.

I feel your argument would make more sense if we were living in a society where everything were truly equal. In that case, I would say this sort of pride would probably be a bit unnecessary. But we don't.

I do find it curious that with most white people they are far more eager to jump on perceived double standards against white people than they are to acknowledge and discuss the fact that there are still a lot of privileges in this society that white people have and black people don't. But we can probably blame that on the lack of education/awareness.
inferno
Posts: 10,660
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3/1/2012 2:09:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 12:58:31 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 3/1/2012 12:29:16 PM, inferno wrote:
At 3/1/2012 12:03:16 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:13:33 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:10:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
You don't believe Black pride is a good thing do you?

I already have pride in my accomplishments and what I am capable of doing as a Man. What does my color have to do with that ? I understand the logic behind it all, and I am proud of my people. But why does it matter to us anyway.
Nationalism is just another way of being a collective slave to propaganda.
It is a falsehood. Your securities should not rely on racial pride.

I think typically people have the most pride in their race had previously the most shame. So, it's the pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other. But I think it's human nature. You see it in the gay community and you see it with women "owning" their curves.

When society creates a situation where it makes people feel ashamed to be a certain way, typically how these people rise above it is by finding pride in it. If we get rid circumstances that allow people to be ashamed of those things to begin with, then people will feel less need to wave a flag.

I agree. But people are like drones, they follow what they see. Subconsciously they pick up bad habits and social trends that are almost inevitable.

But I don't know if this is so much a "monkey see monkey do" situation as much as it is a more natural human reaction to being told they have to be ashamed of themselves due to a particular characteristic. They go to the opposite, which is pride, to prove the point to themselves and to others. Being in an environment that says being black is totally cool and fine, instead of it being undesirable or simply making you invisible, does a lot to help people.

And I suppose you could also argue that "black pride" doesn't comes from simply being born black, it can come from overcoming the shame/insecurities. Which is an accomplishment. The overcoming of the shame comes first, the pride comes second. Not necessarily always the other way around.

I feel your argument would make more sense if we were living in a society where everything were truly equal. In that case, I would say this sort of pride would probably be a bit unnecessary. But we don't.

I do find it curious that with most white people they are far more eager to jump on perceived double standards against white people than they are to acknowledge and discuss the fact that there are still a lot of privileges in this society that white people have and black people don't. But we can probably blame that on the lack of education/awareness.

Black rebellion is cool. But because we are now living in an er of PC, this is a hot button issue. And that means things must be done and said with care.
This only inflames or enrages the status quo when we have social or verbal mishaps in a very racially charged climate. This is why racism is alive and well even more today than it has been since the 1960's. Shocking isnt it.
Yes, I know.
Phoenix.Wright
Posts: 13
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3/1/2012 4:24:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The centuries of racism black people faced is hard to completely erase and still makes it through the efforts of the last half century. For the last couple of centuries, blacks were made to psychologically feel like trash and this has huge impacts. It's no wonder why we would still have things such as affirmative action and black power. Many blacks asked Martin Luther King to not oppose the racist government which shows the fear and weakened psyche.....
breaxxbaxx
Posts: 42
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3/1/2012 4:44:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 2:09:30 PM, inferno wrote:
At 3/1/2012 12:58:31 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 3/1/2012 12:29:16 PM, inferno wrote:
At 3/1/2012 12:03:16 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:13:33 PM, inferno wrote:
At 2/28/2012 12:10:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
You don't believe Black pride is a good thing do you?

I already have pride in my accomplishments and what I am capable of doing as a Man. What does my color have to do with that ? I understand the logic behind it all, and I am proud of my people. But why does it matter to us anyway.
Nationalism is just another way of being a collective slave to propaganda.
It is a falsehood. Your securities should not rely on racial pride.

I think typically people have the most pride in their race had previously the most shame. So, it's the pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other. But I think it's human nature. You see it in the gay community and you see it with women "owning" their curves.

When society creates a situation where it makes people feel ashamed to be a certain way, typically how these people rise above it is by finding pride in it. If we get rid circumstances that allow people to be ashamed of those things to begin with, then people will feel less need to wave a flag.

I agree. But people are like drones, they follow what they see. Subconsciously they pick up bad habits and social trends that are almost inevitable.

But I don't know if this is so much a "monkey see monkey do" situation as much as it is a more natural human reaction to being told they have to be ashamed of themselves due to a particular characteristic. They go to the opposite, which is pride, to prove the point to themselves and to others. Being in an environment that says being black is totally cool and fine, instead of it being undesirable or simply making you invisible, does a lot to help people.

And I suppose you could also argue that "black pride" doesn't comes from simply being born black, it can come from overcoming the shame/insecurities. Which is an accomplishment. The overcoming of the shame comes first, the pride comes second. Not necessarily always the other way around.

I feel your argument would make more sense if we were living in a society where everything were truly equal. In that case, I would say this sort of pride would probably be a bit unnecessary. But we don't.

I do find it curious that with most white people they are far more eager to jump on perceived double standards against white people than they are to acknowledge and discuss the fact that there are still a lot of privileges in this society that white people have and black people don't. But we can probably blame that on the lack of education/awareness.

Black rebellion is cool. But because we are now living in an er of PC, this is a hot button issue. And that means things must be done and said with care.
This only inflames or enrages the status quo when we have social or verbal mishaps in a very racially charged climate. This is why racism is alive and well even more today than it has been since the 1960's. Shocking isnt it.
Yes, I know.

So, your issue isn't really with what Puffy said but with how it could potentially be perceived by ignorant people? And he shouldn't have said it because it might enrage ignorant people?

Again, I don't think we should promote censorship especially for the sake of appeasing ignorant people. The real issue is with how people are taught about racism when they're growing up. Racism extends beyond the overt examples of hatred we're taught in school. The KKK, the n word, segregation, slavery, etc. In the mainstream, these things are all looked down upon. So, considering this people think that racism is a dead issue, and that it's just liberals and black people trying to stir more problems between different races. But, what they aren't taught is about institutional racism or the more subtle forms of racism that occur every day. They are taught that racism is only racism if it's intentional. But people can say racist things without even realizing it or intending to, and the effects are the same.

Racism isn't about the good guys vs. the bad guys. People get very defensive when the topic of race comes up and I honestly don't see any reason to. Fact is, I would be willing to bet the majority of the population has thought something racist about some group of people. Is that good? Definitely not. Does that make someone a terrible person? Nope.

We do want to eradicate racism as best we can. But I think when when we're going on this idea that only bad guys ever do anything racist, that keeps people from looking in the mirror and observing any of their own potential racism. That also make certain white people seek any chance they can to scream "double standard" or "reverse racism" toward black people even when neither those things are actually occurring.
Phoenix.Wright
Posts: 13
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3/2/2012 4:49:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Race doesn't even exist. It has been tried to be given a scientific basis by people like Darwin but under closer scrutinty is refuted. What does race mean?

http://dictionary.reference.com...
Race: an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

There are no genetic or biological differences between people. This is fiction. Race doesn't exist.

http://www.eurekalert.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,314
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3/2/2012 7:59:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/1/2012 4:44:00 PM, breaxxbaxx wrote:
So, your issue isn't really with what Puffy said but with how it could potentially be perceived by ignorant people? And he shouldn't have said it because it might enrage ignorant people?

Again, I don't think we should promote censorship especially for the sake of appeasing ignorant people. The real issue is with how people are taught about racism when they're growing up. Racism extends beyond the overt examples of hatred we're taught in school. The KKK, the n word, segregation, slavery, etc. In the mainstream, these things are all looked down upon. So, considering this people think that racism is a dead issue, and that it's just liberals and black people trying to stir more problems between different races. But, what they aren't taught is about institutional racism or the more subtle forms of racism that occur every day. They are taught that racism is only racism if it's intentional. But people can say racist things without even realizing it or intending to, and the effects are the same.

Racism isn't about the good guys vs. the bad guys. People get very defensive when the topic of race comes up and I honestly don't see any reason to. Fact is, I would be willing to bet the majority of the population has thought something racist about some group of people. Is that good? Definitely not. Does that make someone a terrible person? Nope.

We do want to eradicate racism as best we can. But I think when when we're going on this idea that only bad guys ever do anything racist, that keeps people from looking in the mirror and observing any of their own potential racism. That also make certain white people seek any chance they can to scream "double standard" or "reverse racism" toward black people even when neither those things are actually occurring.

this