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Society's Meaning of Life a Fraud

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/1/2009 12:04:56 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Philosopher Alan Watts exposes the popular idea of what life's purpose is.

Any thoughts?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/1/2009 2:57:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I don't think he is suggesting anything else different from what others have suggested. Nor has he said it is a "fraud" - he just stated that he doesn't think the alleged purpose that schools teach us (frankly, I think that is a misrepresentation) is what people should do.

Just one view of the purpose of life - not a fraud, truth or anything else. Just a view, a nice view at that.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/8/2009 7:11:25 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/1/2009 12:04:56 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Philosopher Alan Watts exposes the popular idea of what life's purpose is.

Any thoughts?

Humanity is drowning in its own iniquity and here is yet another one describing the water.

Job32:21
Let me not, I pray, show partiality to anyone;
Nor let me flatter any man.

The Cross.. the Cross.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/19/2009 7:30:40 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/19/2009 7:15:53 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Life doesn't inherently "mean" anything; We create our own meaning.

How right you are.

But, it never hurts to have an idea of what it should be.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/20/2009 3:18:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/19/2009 9:10:27 AM, theLwerd wrote:
But if it's subjective...?

Then HITLER WAS RIGHT. COCO the clown IS RIGHT. YOUR RIGHT.
And if EVERYBODIES RIGHT... no-one is.

If there was only subjectivity we'd all be living in an autistic nightmare.
(we're getting there!)

Objectivity HIMSELF said:

Matthew12:36
BUT
I say to you
for EVERY word
men may speak,
they will give account of it
in the day of judgement.
The Cross.. the Cross.
LB628
Posts: 176
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7/20/2009 8:55:29 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/20/2009 3:18:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/19/2009 9:10:27 AM, theLwerd wrote:
But if it's subjective...?

Then HITLER WAS RIGHT. COCO the clown IS RIGHT. YOUR RIGHT.
And if EVERYBODIES RIGHT... no-one is.

If there was only subjectivity we'd all be living in an autistic nightmare.
(we're getting there!)

Objectivity HIMSELF said:

Matthew12:36
BUT
I say to you
for EVERY word
men may speak,
they will give account of it
in the day of judgement.


They are talking about the purpose of life, not moral decision-making. Even if a subjective world would be bad, that does not mean it is not true.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/20/2009 9:10:12 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/20/2009 8:55:29 AM, LB628 wrote:
At 7/20/2009 3:18:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/19/2009 9:10:27 AM, theLwerd wrote:
But if it's subjective...?

Then HITLER WAS RIGHT. COCO the clown IS RIGHT. YOUR RIGHT.
And if EVERYBODIES RIGHT... no-one is.

If there was only subjectivity we'd all be living in an autistic nightmare.
(we're getting there!)

Objectivity HIMSELF said:

Matthew12:36
BUT
I say to you
for EVERY word
men may speak,
they will give account of it
in the day of judgement.


They are talking about the purpose of life, not moral decision-making. Even if a subjective world would be bad, that does not mean it is not true.

No, we are talking about MEANING.
Without meaning there can be no morality or anything else.
Without meanijlgf hkjdet oijh bfgdsw kvb lgbffdkfcfv hjggf?
See?

Romans1:22
Professing THEMSELVES
to be
wise
they
became fools.
The Cross.. the Cross.
LB628
Posts: 176
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7/20/2009 9:35:07 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/20/2009 9:10:12 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/20/2009 8:55:29 AM, LB628 wrote:
At 7/20/2009 3:18:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/19/2009 9:10:27 AM, theLwerd wrote:
But if it's subjective...?

Then HITLER WAS RIGHT. COCO the clown IS RIGHT. YOUR RIGHT.
And if EVERYBODIES RIGHT... no-one is.

If there was only subjectivity we'd all be living in an autistic nightmare.
(we're getting there!)

Objectivity HIMSELF said:

Matthew12:36
BUT
I say to you
for EVERY word
men may speak,
they will give account of it
in the day of judgement.


They are talking about the purpose of life, not moral decision-making. Even if a subjective world would be bad, that does not mean it is not true.

No, we are talking about MEANING.
Without meaning there can be no morality or anything else.
Without meanijlgf hkjdet oijh bfgdsw kvb lgbffdkfcfv hjggf?
See?


Why does morality derive from the meaning of life? I would say it derives from the existence of rational life.
So, without meaning, we cannot understand each other. And?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/20/2009 10:50:17 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/19/2009 7:15:53 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Life doesn't inherently "mean" anything; We create our own meaning.

From an existialist view point, yes. But I disagree with existential philosophy.

Let me clarify that "meaning of life" was a poor choice of words but that was all I could fit in the topic title. I was only refering to people's common perception of success and fulfillment in life. Not the grand meaning.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/21/2009 7:40:27 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/20/2009 10:50:17 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/19/2009 7:15:53 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Life doesn't inherently "mean" anything; We create our own meaning.

From an existialist view point, yes. But I disagree with existential philosophy.

Let me clarify that "meaning of life" was a poor choice of words but that was all I could fit in the topic title. I was only refering to people's common perception of success and fulfillment in life. Not the grand meaning.

.

You would. Existentialism <3

Anyway I see what you mean. But I don't think that becoming a sheep and going to school and then college and then work, etc, is how people define "success." I think that's just the generally accepted formula on how to GET there (success). Most people would probably define success as finding love, happiness and usually wealth of some kind (often to compliment or instigate said happiness). There is usually a link between wealth and education/networking, so basically people are just doing the best they can or what they think they need to be doing. Nobody is forcing them to do anything. Anyone can define success in their own way and find a different way of achieving it. I wish you the best of luck in your mystical endeavors : )
President of DDO
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/23/2009 6:44:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/20/2009 9:35:07 AM, LB628 wrote:
At 7/20/2009 9:10:12 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/20/2009 8:55:29 AM, LB628 wrote:
At 7/20/2009 3:18:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/19/2009 9:10:27 AM, theLwerd wrote:
But if it's subjective...?

Then HITLER WAS RIGHT. COCO the clown IS RIGHT. YOUR RIGHT.
And if EVERYBODIES RIGHT... no-one is.

If there was only subjectivity we'd all be living in an autistic nightmare.
(we're getting there!)

Objectivity HIMSELF said:

Matthew12:36
BUT
I say to you
for EVERY word
men may speak,
they will give account of it
in the day of judgement.


They are talking about the purpose of life, not moral decision-making. Even if a subjective world would be bad, that does not mean it is not true.

No, we are talking about MEANING.
Without meaning there can be no morality or anything else.
Without meanijlgf hkjdet oijh bfgdsw kvb lgbffdkfcfv hjggf?
See?


Why does morality derive from the meaning of life? I would say it derives from the existence of rational life.
So, without meaning, we cannot understand each other. And?

Any moral act or decision or statement MUST have a meaning attatched to it or it is quite literally MEANINGLESS. Obviously.
Rationality also MUST have meaning for the same reason.

Romans1:22
P
R
O
F
E
S
S
I
N
G
themselves to be wise they
B
E
C
A
M
E
fools.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/23/2009 6:52:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
You realize that gimmicky poems like that are for semi-atheist, usually highly-socialistic hippies.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/23/2009 7:00:23 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/23/2009 6:52:31 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
You realize that gimmicky poems like that are for semi-atheist, usually highly-socialistic hippies.

I'm sorry, are you adressing me Sir?
If so, the 'usually' suits me fine.

2Peter3:3
Knowing
T
H
I
S
first:
T
H
A
T
scoffers will come in the last days walking
A
C
C
O
R
D
I
N
G
to their own lusts.
The Cross.. the Cross.
VainApocalypse
Posts: 74
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7/25/2009 8:09:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I agree with what hes said in the sense that an end in and of itself must be valueless. It's context that imbues value unto an end, or anything for that matter.

The goals that you attain in life only have value within the context of the journey. Try separating monetary wealth from the needs, experiences, and aspirations of its possessors; does it still have value? No. Should you not then value the journey for what it's worth to your goals, and value the goals for what they're worth to your journey?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/25/2009 9:24:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/25/2009 8:09:37 PM, VainApocalypse wrote:
I agree with what hes said in the sense that an end in and of itself must be valueless. It's context that imbues value unto an end, or anything for that matter.

The goals that you attain in life only have value within the context of the journey. Try separating monetary wealth from the needs, experiences, and aspirations of its possessors; does it still have value? No. Should you not then value the journey for what it's worth to your goals, and value the goals for what they're worth to your journey?

I agree with this logic, in my own way. The context of what your "journey" is creates value in the end, not necessarily the end creating value in the journey.

How you get to the end, what happens as you take the journey, and what you expect of your journey in the first place, creates meaning in your life - the means justify the end, so to speak. I believe this sums up an atheist perspective of what the "meaning of life" is.

I wish I had the chance to quote you in an earlier debate, VainApocalypse! It would have helped my argument seem clearer.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/26/2009 8:17:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/23/2009 7:00:23 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/23/2009 6:52:31 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
You realize that gimmicky poems like that are for semi-atheist, usually highly-socialistic hippies.

I'm sorry, are you adressing me Sir?
If so, the 'usually' suits me fine.

2Peter3:3
Knowing
T
H
I
S
first:
T
H
A
T
scoffers will come in the last days walking
A
C
C
O
R
D
I
N
G
to their own lusts.


The "usually" refers only to the "highly socialistic" part. The semi-atheistic and hippie parts remain intact.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.